Protesters smashed windows at the Democratic Party of Oregon’s headquarters in Portland after the inauguration of President Biden.Credit...Lindsey Wasson/Reuters
ending paragraphs:
“The fight has just begun,” said Ray Austin, 25. He said the damage done by Mr. Trump could not be undone by the likes of President Biden and that the nation needed a groundswell of people demanding more.
Speakers at the event called for the Green New Deal to fight climate change, a “Medicare for All”-style health insurance system, overhauls of police departments to address racial disparities and other fundamental changes.
can't vouch for this independent but I notice her twitter account is followed by a competitor, Justin Yau, who I have learned over time is a very trustworthy protest journo
Coverage by The Oregonian stresses the anti-Democratic-party and pro-anarchist nature of it (note the "we are ungovernable" sign)
Would be a big political win for Biden if he could get a handle on the endless chaos and rioting in Portland. Rioters smashing the state Dem party HQ right now... https://t.co/zcZ81vKH3g
By Heidi Groover @ Seattletimes.com, Updated Jan. 20, 2021 at 10:00 pm
Caption: In Seattle, a group of about 100 protesters burned an American flag outside ICE offices on 2nd Ave, and smashed a window at Amazon Go. (Heidi Groover / The Seattle Times)
President Joe Biden’s inauguration was met Wednesday evening in downtown Seattle with protest and scattered property damage from anti-fascist marchers who have demonstrated for months.
A group, which numbered about 100 protesters early in the evening and later dropped in size, marched through downtown and called for the abolition of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. In chants, they decried both former president Donald Trump and Biden.
Police made at least three arrests as of 9 p.m., for property damage, burglary and an assault, according to Seattle police.
Outside ICE offices on Second Avenue and Spring Street, several in the crowd lit fire to an American flag. Some spray-painted and smashed three windows at a building that houses an AmazonGo store. “Amazon uses $ 2 fund tech for ICE,” read one tag [....]
Windows were also shattered at the federal William Kenzo Nakamura Courthouse on 5th Avenue, police said.
Inside the Henry M. Jackson Federal Building on Second Avenue, about 10 officers stood guard in tactical gear with ICE and Department of Homeland Security badges. Some wore gas masks [....]
more detail in her twitter feed; a sampling:
Chants of “Fuck Trump, fuck Biden too” “all presidents are bastards” “no cops no prisons total abolition.”
Meanwhile, ironically, Sergio Olmos and Justin Yau, who have mainly covered the Portland area protests night after day after night for months, traveled to D.C. for the inauguration, probably expecting some action shots of right wing anarchists for a little variety after spending so much time with left-wing ones, but all they seem to see are the occupying forces, marching National Guard:
well they wouldn't like ANY president, so there's that! we just have a serious problem in this country with anarchists, mostly right, but there's plenty of lefties, too. They don't want a president or a federal government, they give a shit about the political parties (except some libertarian) because they are national, and they don't like policing. They coopted a lot of BLM protests, they liked that everyone was out on streets and could be agitated to either fight cops or wear them out during covid so looting and arson and even injury to police could occur. Like Putin they want to stoke chaos to break down our evil federal imperialist empire. It's ironic that they would love Ronnie's joke that "I'm from the federal government and I'm here to help."
Some people just want to see the world burn - even while muttering supposed solutions.
Yes, a Workers' Paradise was a noble goal - just the path to supposedly *try* to get there didn't quite run through paradise.
Pol Pot came up with the brilliant idea of "Return to Year Zero" when we were pristine and pure (hardly any pollution!!! Radically reduced food needs!!!)
Or as the Big Bad Wolf said, "Give me Single Payer Healthcare and $15 minimum or I'll blow your house down!")
The pigs were not amused.
^ IMPORTANT! Dems need to realize that just because we have a lot of people saying to pollsters that they believe the election was stolen from Trump doesn't mean that they are going to act out and start a revolution about it. Effectively, they are now just no different than liberals who believed the election was stolen from Clinton for the last four years, just way more irrational. The split is still there, but no need to be in constant fear of revolution from them. Most are observing rule of law, the balance is issues about speech.and politics.
We don't crack down on schizophrenics when they babble, either, only when they act out.
The label "extremists" is basically correctly being used for those acting out illegally.
We do have too many extremists acting out in this country right now. Unfortunately we also have increasing interest in buying guns to deal with that and also in forming militias! That is anti-rule of law. (AND the slogans "defund police" and moreso "abolish police" is feeding the anti-rule-of-law zeitgeist. Ask yourself if you are happy that the stormers of the Capitol are being arrested and prosecuted. If you are, then don't say we need fewer police. Social workers are not trained to deal with anti-government extremists acting out. They are not going to deal with antifa that well, either.)
Here Ford Fischer calls the Portland crew who attacked the Dem office "antifa activisits" and correctly, I think. Quite a few of this kind of protester uses that label themselves. It just means anti-fascist, after all. I think liberals got to let go of not using the term just because right-wing media started using it broadly inaccurately over the summer. If you want to really understand what certain radical groups are really about. They are proud to be "antifa":and they think the U.S. is "fa"
THREAD: "F*** Biden!" Antifa activists smashed windows and spray-painted Democratic Party of Oregon offices in Portland Wednesday afternoon after the Inauguration of Joe Biden.
Fox News is lovin this and headlining this as "Unrest Explodes Across West, Left Wing Insurrection". What the core GOP base wants to hear, "Both Sides!" "Whatabout!"
Arta, we can always count on you for what goes on in Portland!
150 anarchists in Portland, some arrested, a flag burned in Denver a window broken in Seattle = West Coast Insurrection?
Real Insurrection: 30,000+ Trumpers called and scheduled for a riot by Trump and GOP, animal skinned, armed, ginned up by lies of the Republican Party and it's President cult leader, rioters prepared with special gear and shields, zip ties, clenched fist incited by GOP Senator, their own mace guns, rope, baseball bats, bullet proof vests, gallows set up with noose, Congress offices invaded, computers stolen (alleged attempt by a thieving patriot to sell Pelosi's to the Russians), Congress persons sought, calls for Pence to be captured, beating one Capitol cop to death, and 5 dead.
Strawman argument. No one here has said Trump didn't encourage violence. In fact no one here has posted more videos of the violence at the capitol than Arta. If one isn't tribal it's possible to criticize multiple groups from many political persuasions. It's because you're so extremely tribal that you can only criticize those you disagree with and excuse or at least ignore the violence if you agree with them.
Thank you for taking the time to be supportive on this, oceankat, NOT BECAUSE OF ME BUT BECAUSE this is how the Trumpie deluded got where they are! AND ONE OF MAJOR PROBLEMS FOR OUR WHOLE SOCIETY., this is how we are where we are.
Doing tribal thinking and reporting AND partisan thinking and reporting, both include denial of the big picture. Shutting mind's eye to inconvenient facts in order to support a one sided narrative and spinning your side as bigger.
It's a method of advocacy for a cause. It's the same thing that lawyers use in a trial before a jury, they leave out the damning details that hurt their client and tell the story of only those things that help the narrative that supports their. client.. Except that in our trial system with advocates presenting two opposing narratives, the jury is REQUIRED to listen to both sides spin! And more often then not, come up with a judgment inbetween the two because that is where the truth usually lies.
I have had an interest in extremist radical groups intent on destabilizing "western" civilization as we know it since becoming interested in what was going on with Al Qaeda and the Taliban and the northern alliance in the 90's. If you made sweeping tribal judgments there, it usually did not work out to benefit. I.E., the worst one could do is think they were all the same Muslim towel heads and were all your same enemy. Thinking the northern alliance was the same as the Taliban would also be a mistake. Even thinking the Taliban and Al Qaeda were the same was a big mistake.
One little thing right off the bat is damaging to partisan cause, backfires big time and is counter productive: denial that BLM protests and related anarchist protesting embraced rather than decried:
they ended causing far far more property damage than right-wing extremists this year. The right-wing nut cases specialize more in causing fear and loathing of bodily damage, but not that much really happens, THEY ATTACK SYMBOLS and plot against major politicians to cause fear, just like Islamic terrorists do.
The people who live in those areas know what happened via leftwing anarchist provocation, they aren't going to believe spin about it all being peaceful and harmless, no matter how much you spin it. It was real chaos and destruction, not as much terrorizing of the mind with what could happen, just real destruction, like war.
Tell that to Macy's in Chicago and Manhattan or the people of Santa Monica whose nice little downtown got nearly destroyed or the businesses now in Portland who are giving up the ghost because the insurance rates have skyrocketed, the last straw after many other challenges, the people in Kenosha who had to pay for government buildings destroyed and a downtown ruined, the granny in Minneapolis with the only food store close by burned down and police station and other services burned to the ground, the business owners stuck inside anarchist CHAZ-land in Seattle, the Italian-Americans who saw their statues of Columbus torn down without any due process majority will, the Catholics who saw their statues of Fr. Junipero Serro torn down as if now they were hated and should fear outing their beliefs, the people of Nashville who had to deal with arson and other damage to their historic courthouse, the black police chief of Portland begging for community support after serious continuing damage to the Multinomah Courthouse, especially eloquent,.not to mention little things like the local Starbucks windows always getting broken in many downtowns,
I'd venture a guess that quite a few of those are Hispanic business owners who voted for Trump and/or GOP for House, but that's spinning.. still I can see them saying "peaceful my ass"
I certainly know some swing voters in the NYC tri-state area who see ZERO difference between the shaman guy plundering the Capitol and fthe marching "spoiled brats" who defaced and damaged much of Manhattan this summer so that it all became a boarded up dystopian looking place, when until the end of May it had just sat unprotected and quiet with hardly no one touching anything. For some reason, people followed rule of law until the end of May and then all hell broke loose and every downtown in the country got boarded up. We all wish we had invested in plywood.
You have to be blind not to see that a minority of lefty protesters were out to really burn this country's urban centers left empty because of the pandemic to a state of hopelessness this summer.
I noticed lefty, most yuppie Brooklyn types, including lots of whites, using "fuck Joe Biden" as a chant already in July, this is a clip I posted on Dag
in looking that up, ran across this one, a perfect example of just another mediocre example we forgot about happening this summer that the people living there probably will NEVER forget their whole life-the summer of CHAOS and covid
Portland is the same as storming the Capitol, stealing things, constructing a gallows, and shouting "Hang Pence"?
Edit to add:
The views of a DC resistant
Stanley Mayes, 71, the owner of A Divine Shine Complete Shoe Care and Repair on T Street NW, grew up in the neighborhood, known as Shaw, and still lives there. He witnessed the looting and arson in 1968, the antiwar demonstrations of the same period, and the crack epidemic of the 1980s and ’90s.
In some ways, he said, he feels more hopeful now, particularly as cellphone video footage has validated longtime complaints from Black people that they are routinely mistreated by police officers.
But the coronavirus killed his sister-in-law and three cousins and hurt his business. And he was jarred by the sight of Trump supporters walking through his neighborhood on the afternoon of the Capitol riot, their allegiance to the president obvious by their flags and their bright red caps that read, “Make America Great Again.”
“It’s like Dante’s rings, where you just keep going down,” he said.
Demonstrations of the past, he said, were intended to pressure the government “to live up to what’s carved in the stone at the Lincoln Memorial.” But Trump’s supporters “are not asking the government to act out of their highest ideals.”
We can discuss what is similar and what is different in the manifestations of mob violence and property destruction we're seeing recently if you want. What you can't reasonably do is state that a criticism of one group means we're not saying other groups aren't a problem too. Especially when all but one person posting here clearly stated that Trump incited his supporters to mob violence
" I have no obligation to respond in a manner that you determine is proper."
You can reply or not how ever you want. But as I said, "What you can't reasonably do is state that a criticism of one group means we're not saying other groups aren't a problem too." You can be irrational. You can lie. But the simple fact is that only one person here supports the claim that you posted, "It wasn't Trump encouraging violence" All the rest of us condemned both Trump for inciting mob violence and his violent protestors. And you can expect to be called out when you lie.
The Right had already been in the streets. (Charlottesville, Michigan Capitol)
I guess that it is easier to see them as people who were made to do it by BLM
The Right was already committing violent acts.
You are free to continue with your delusion that BLM made them do it
I am not concerned because Biden recognizes the problem
So one of the most striking passages in President Biden’s Inaugural Address on Wednesday was also one of the most straightforward: He named the enemy. “Political extremism, white supremacy” and “domestic terrorism,” he said, are dangers “that we must confront and we will defeat.”
"I guess that it is easier to see them as people who were made to do it by BLM"
That's just another strawman. I don't think people are saying the riots in the capitol was made to happen by the riots and looting of BLM protestors the previous year. Just that mob violence that goes uncontrolled and unpunished leads to increased mob violence. If the violent right wing mob in the capitol aren't held to account for their actions imo it will embolden both the left and the right to greater mob violence.
Discussing this from a tribal or partisan view is simplistic and incomplete. Like the excellent article Arta linked I think it's about mob rule versus rule of law.
The strawman argument is that "good" behavior by BLM will be met by "good" behavior by those on the Right.
The problem is that White supremacists are not called domestic terrorists
Throughout the 6 January attack on the US Capitol, as journalists and politicians expressed their stunned astonishment, one couldn’t help wondering: hadn’t they heard about the hundreds of people, some of them armed, who stormed the Michigan state capitol building in April, objecting to Governor Gretchen Whitmer’s stay-at-home order? Had they forgotten that a young womanwas killed during the August 2017 Unite the Right march in Charlottesville, Virginia – a neo-Nazi event that Donald Trump declined to unequivocally condemn? Had their interns not been keeping up with – and informing their bosses about – the popular Twitter feeds and Facebook pages of far-right hate groups and extremist conspiracy theorists? Had no one explained that the Proud Boys’ T-shirt insignia – 6MWE – means “Six Million [Jews] Weren’t Enough”?
The wingnuts were never put in check. That alone is the problem. We still don't know who placed functional pipe bombs in DC. The strawman argument is that both sides do it.
When Black people see the white wingnuts breech the Capitol and come out alive, it reminds them of the double standard in the United States. There would be dead Black or Muslim bodies if a different ethnic group surged the Capitol. If BLM was responsible for the Capitol attack, BLM members around the country would be rounded up, not treated on a case by case basis.
From her couch in Minneapolis, Nuny Nichols watched a mob of largely white extremists stage an insurrection in Washington, D.C., set up a noose on a wooden beam outside the U.S. Capitol and walk a symbol of violence and slavery — the Confederate flag — through the building as they stormed and raided it.
She was angry, but she was not surprised at the way people in the mob laughed as they took things from the building. There were white extremists who felt at ease giving their names to media outlets and taking selfies with a white police officer.
It stood in stark contrast to the way law enforcement handled protests for Black lives this summer in Minneapolis, where Nichols demonstrated.
"People who were just out there to protest — to make sure our voice is being heard — as soon as they were getting even close to a building or even close to a police officer, they were instantly tear-gassing and they were shooting rubber bullets," she recalls
"The strawman argument is that "good" behavior by BLM will be met by "good" behavior by those on the Right."
That is a strawman argument, one that I don't see anyone making here. Or at least it's an opinion I disagree with. I haven't read any articles making that argument either though I suppose someone somewhere might have said it. So I wonder why you're bringing it up here. Once again, the argument I see and that I agree with is " that mob violence that goes uncontrolled and unpunished leads to increased mob violence."
Who exactly is making that claim? Who are you debating with? No one here made any such claim. Do you have a link to the article that you're disputing? Because I haven't seen anyone make that claim. It seems to me you're making up that claim and debating yourself instead of discussing the views people here have posted.
and back to my point: this is something that Trump FAMOUSLY DID ALL THE TIME. Again, I appreciate you calling it out. Not because I myself am tired of everyone here simply going along with the creative narrative thing on this, I think it's important for more people to start challenging this shit. on social media. No more Miz Nice Gal.
{A really absurd part of it: the lack of understanding of the difference between analysis and criticism of "the woke" movement in culture and analysis of extremists and anarchists!!! FOR CHRISSAKES they are not one and the same thing and nobody says the are! Only in his very suspicious mind. That's why I asked politely for him to stay off my "wokee" thread, he did not even understand what it was about--no clue-- just would constantly drag it over to unrelated politics and activism, presuming intent that was not there at all and way off topic.]
even that sounds familiar "have a nice life". reminds me of Fitzgerald's they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.”
Yes, there are so many subgroups and some of the "right and the left" over lap. There's even some on the "left" who mainly or exclusively thought this is a really good time to steal some shit. What bothered me is that some real protestors that didn't loot a thing didn't distance themselves from the looters and even defended them calling theft reparations.
that, the making of excuses for looters who have no interest in their cause, but are taking advantage of their situation, is not just dishonest, it's just plain stupid. stupid stupid stupid tribalism based on skin color, oh here's some black criminals, because they have the same skin color, let's pretend we're all on the same chord. Of course criminals gonna go along with them, are against police, have always been. DOH. You would think the last thing you'd want if you were trying to argue that we need less policing is to include profiteeing criminals in your tribe...
$25,000 bail for a pro Trump anti-masker just for making violent threats against a government building in a restaurant in Weaverville, CA; no weapons found in his home or vehicle:
Eureka man arrested for making violent threats towards a government building https://t.co/6pZb3ILYAr
Portland lefties didn't get treated as roughly all summer actually throwing firey projectiles at a federal courthouse, and attempting to commit arson against more than a few government buildings--though the fires were all put out in time, ripping down fencing, injuring Fed. officers, etc.
Why wouldn't he think just boasting about attacking was no big deal? Attacking government buildings was not treated as a big deal in Portland except by Barr and Trump--walls of moms come out to support doing so...
Trump and Barr eventually gave up and the federal "goons" left at the request of the governor. She sent in the Oregon State Police, they got fed up that nobody they arrested was being prosecuted
Oregon State Police said they were withdrawing protection from Portland’s federal courthouse over frustration at a prosecutor’s decision not to indict many people arrested in protests there https://t.co/OXL4UAV8qmpic.twitter.com/BL3dOWLM1B
why wouldn't right-wing extremists think it was okay to attack federal buildings? Lots of liberals support lefties doing so! Or at least they don't speak out about no prosecution. All summer: fuck cops and feds, we hate em, who needs enforcement of the laws, we'll just work it out ourselves with social workers
This has a SUPERB local video report from Weds. night news with statements of great clarity from the mayor and Richmond's commonwealth attorney about attacks on their courthouse and other buildings by an antifa-like group, and a statement from the police chief at the end on the alleged perps. I was really impressed, pros all around, including the coverage. The mayor, attorney and police chief make Portland and Chicago authorities look pretty pitiful in comparison as far as communication is concerned. Also includes a text report and tweeted photos of the damage and mug shots of the arrested, but I highly recommend watching the 3 min. local news video at the top. Beginning excerpt.
RICHMOND, Va. (WWBT) - Richmond Mayor Levar Stoney says overnight rioting left 22 windows damaged at the John Marshall Courts Building and a trail of damage at other businesses in parts of downtown.
“If you want to break windows, damage property, vandalize and undermine this moment of pain, you’re going to be alone doing that,” said Stoney.
Stoney said the group called Richmond Strike is responsible for the damage.
Vandals sprayed graffiti in the area. Other buildings that were damaged include the Wells Fargo building, the Omni hotel and a Starbucks [....]
one item: CALLING OUT NATIONAL GUARD IN ANOTHER STATE! About one case far away! Is that logical that that is happening? While hundreds of minorities are dying from violence and covid every day! Is that really logical to have fear of that level of unrest? Guard already out in Kentucky! Taxpayers have to pay for it.
Gov. Pritzker has called in the National Guard to “prepare” for the Breonna Taylor verdict. https://t.co/dmfAHrAgqL
NASHVILLE, Tenn. – August 4, 2020 – A criminal complaint unsealed today charged Shelby Ligons, 22, of Nashville Tennessee, with malicious destruction of property using fire or explosives.
Wesley Somers, 25, of Hendersonville, Tennessee, was previously charged on June 3, 2020, and his case is pending in U.S. District Court.
The criminal complaint alleges that on the afternoon of May 30, 2020, protesters gathered in downtown Nashville following the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Later in the evening, a number of persons gathered in front of the Nashville City Hall, also known as the Metro Courthouse. Using various tools, including crowbars and other objects, they began smashing the windows of the premises and spraying graffiti on the Courthouse facade. One or more fires were also set inside of the Courthouse at this time [....]
If convicted, Ligons faces a mandatory minimum of five years and up to 20 years in prison.
“Sixty years ago, 3,000 nonviolent protesters marched to that same courthouse in a milestone moment for integration. And yet that courthouse tonight was defaced and set on fire.” https://t.co/HRZFJkIqL8
— Mayor Ron | Wear a mask! (@Ron_Nirenberg) May 31, 2020
how dare he worry about vandalism to infrastructure buildings and public art in the business district. protecting while supremacy? who the hell does he think he is, instituting a curfew? we have anger and outrage to express in the night?
Cleveland
GO HOME, quit breaking the law and wrecking the joint for the rest of the people who live here:
— Antonio García Martínez (@antoniogm) May 31, 2020
Presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden condemned the violence from Saturday's protests in a statement. "The act of protesting should never be allowed to overshadow the reason we protest," he says. https://t.co/TWImcqjyNB
The argument that rightwing groups were triggered by BLM etc has no basis in reality
White supremacist violence is the major security risk fog the United States
This risk existed long before George Floyd protests
From a 2019;review
Killings committed by individuals and groups associated with far-right extremist groups have risen significantly. Seventy-one percent of the 387 “extremist related fatalities in the United States” from 2008 to 2017 were committed by members of far-right and white-supremacist groups, according the Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism. Islamic extremists were responsible for 26 percent.
a bit more memory refresh--a few photos from the slideshow with the A.P. article on Biden directly above
Armed protesters climb on a flipped over police vehicle Saturday, May 30, 2020, in Salt Lake City. Thousands of people converged on downtown Salt Lake City on Saturday to protest the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis, and some demonstrators set fire to a police car and threw eggs and wrote graffiti on a police station. (AP Photo/Rick Bowmer)
A protester on a bicycle rides past a burning police car during a demonstration next to the city of Miami Police Department, Saturday, May 30, 2020, downtown in Miami. Protests were held throughout the country over the death of George Floyd, a black man who was killed in police custody in Minneapolis on May 25. (AP Photo/Wilfredo Lee)
Demonstrators block the street as a Los Angeles Fire Department ambulance tries to get through during a protest over the death of George Floyd, Saturday, May 30, 2020, in Los Angeles. Protests were held throughout the country over the death of Floyd, a black man who died after being restrained by Minneapolis police officers on Memorial Day. (AP Photo/Mark J. Terrill)
Police officers protect themselves with shields as protesters throw debris during a rally Friday, May 29, 2020, in the Brooklyn borough of New York, at the Barclays Center over the death of George Floyd, a black man who was in police custody in Minneapolis. (AP Photo/Frank Franklin II)
Minnesota National Guard members maintain a position on Lake St., near S. Chicago Ave., protecting nearby firefighters following protests in the death of George Floyd, Saturday, May 30, 2020, in Minneapolis, MN.. (David Joles/Star Tribune via AP)
A pair of protesters attempt to stop others from throwing rocks and water bottles at police during a demonstration next to the city of Miami Police Department, Saturday, May 30, 2020, downtown in Miami (AP Photo/Wilfredo Lee)
and what a surprise NOT, here is Karlyn Borysenko, psychologist, ex-Democrat convert to Trump fandom, explaining to her 76,000 followers on a Twitter thread how they need to see that the majority of peaceful Trump rallygoers vs. a small minority of Capitol rioters IS JUST LIKE the majority of peaceful BLM protesters vs. a small minority of rioters AND NOT ONLY THAT, they may indeed be kindred spirits who could join forces--
There was violence at the Capitol, but the vast majority of people there were peaceful (do not start with me saying it was all BLM and Antifa - it was not)
There was violence in the BLM protests but the vast majority of them were peaceful.
Not surprising. BLM was protesting 'harm', the murder of community members by abusive cops, demanding protection of civil rights and due process for suspects.
The Trump insurrection mob was scheduled, summoned, given a mission ('combat', 'be wild") by Trump and his Republican enablers to target our democratic representatives and stop a Constitutional process in order to overturn a democratic election.
Call it "TLM", Trump Lies Matter.
An election Trump had lied about for 2 months, in which there was no evidence presented in over 50 court cases that it was 'stolen'. 5 were left dead.
As the violence of the mob was broadcast to the world, Trump, initially gleeful according to Senator Sasse, finally came out and called them "special people' and that 'he loves them, go home'. This while members of Congress hid in closets. Trump family and associates danced the macarena just hours before the 'combat' prepared mob (riot shields, mace guns, hockey sticks, gas masks, baseball bats, zip ties, CB radios, tactical gear, etc) were unleashed on the Capitol by Trump.
The only 'harm' the Trump mob had was a lost election.
Their demand? That they have a 'right' to use violence for insurrection and political power, as they selfied themselves and bragged on social media about their crimes.
Ok, I would like to return to the original meme which I started with
(before I got into reminding readers of this thread that there actually was violence in many BLM demonstrations, they were not all peaceful, and not only that, they've left many downtowns in cities across the country still looking like shithole countries, all boarded up , damaged, even burned, and were the last straw for many small businesses after pandemic losses etc. etc.)
MY MAIN point is this:
Oregon State Police said they were withdrawing protection from Portland’s federal courthouse over frustration at a prosecutor’s decision not to indict many people arrested in protests there https://t.co/OXL4UAV8qmpic.twitter.com/BL3dOWLM1B
That was after the Trump/Barr goons, left, their protection was by order of the governor!
If protesters are NOT PROSECUTED at all or are just given hand slaps for actions for which they are arrested attacking a FEDERAL BUILDING and/or its legally authorized guards, to return and do it again, night after night after night after night for months, and the force authorized by the duly elected government just gives up and leaves,and this is publicized
WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO OTHER KINDS OF PROTESTERS WITH TOTALLY DIFFERENT GRIEVANCES? Esepcially about attacking like, Federal buildings.
I think it says: you too can get away with this! Why not just do it?! What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
You might also think: because leftists are just taking over all whole sections of a city and declaring a new government, and police step back and treat it as not their country, just because they are (supposedly) somehow for a righteous cause of a people oppressed by the local goverment, a cause that no one will dispute and no one gets prosecuted for doing it, activists on the right might think about doing that too?
They could also think: hey, lookit, if you don't like the symbolism of something like a communally-owned statue or or a similar physical symbol, you can just tear it down without going through due democratic process without being prosecuted if you look angry enough and are willing to mob it.. Just because it offends you, you can attack it and people will make excuses for you.. Feelings rule. If you're angry and offended, you can get away with a lot, even if the fascist cops arrest you, they'll let you off. Because your cause is righteous.
They might also think: hey lookit, everybody on the left now hates cops and protests against them, even in blue high-crime cities, and instead of getting tough on crime, they are stepping back in fear. We could do that too!
Imagine if the opening paragraph of something about Jan 6 read like that — completely from the rioters’ perspective: “Protesters took to the streets of Washington DC to let the establishment know they are still fighting for election integrity, some told CNN.”
— Pamela Paresky (Habits of a Free Mind) (@PamelaParesky) January 23, 2021
(she also shoulda mentioned that some of the more violent in the Portland crew don't think that Joe Biden is their duly elected president)
NYTimes reports from Portland (with comments from around the country) on finding a complicated mix of "just dedicated lefties", less on anarchist agitators but addressing the potential in the "not my president" types, includes some comparisons with the Capitol rally crowd: My highlighting of the last sentence:
As President Biden calls for unity and calmer rhetoric, his presidency began with burned flags and federal agents deployed once again into the streets
By Mike Baker & John Eligon @ NYTimes.com, July 21 (FULL COPY FOR FAIR USE RESEARCH PURPOSES, except left one photo out)
Federal agents used tear gas in Portland, Ore., against protesters gathered on Wednesday outside an Immigration and Customs Enforcement building near downtown.CreditCredit...Alisha Jucevic for The New York Times
PORTLAND, Ore. — In the hours after President Biden’s inauguration on Wednesday, hundreds of people gathered for a series of events across the liberal city of Portland, Ore. — not to celebrate, but to mobilize for the struggles to come.
At one demonstration, speakers denounced Mr. Biden as a “feckless puppet of the centrist Democratic establishment.” At another, crowds of antifascist and racial justice protesters made their doubts about the new president even more explicit, burning a Biden flag in the street. At a third event, several people smashed the windows of the local Democratic Party headquarters. “We are ungovernable,” the group’s banner declared.
While Mr. Biden has vowed to try to unify the nation and urged Americans to “stop the shouting” after a bitter election campaign, a Capitol riot and a year of unrest over racial injustices and pandemic restrictions, the first day of his presidency concluded with a scene reminiscent of many under his predecessor: Federal agents in camouflage and riot gear moved into the streets of Portland, unleashing thick clouds of tear gas.
If people were wondering whether Mr. Biden’s presidency would ease the conflict, the opening hours of his tenure illustrated the daunting challenge he faces to bridge the lingering gulfs on both sides of the political spectrum — divisions stoked by Donald J. Trump during his presidency and, to the left, exacerbated by years of inaction over climate change, economic disparity and systemic racism.
Demonstrators in Portland continued challenging immigration policies after President Biden took office.Credit...Alisha Jucevic for The New York Times
Eric Schickler, co-director of the Institute of Governmental Studies at the University of California, Berkeley, said Mr. Biden was stepping into the White House at a time of such vitriol that opposing sides view each other as the enemy.
“He’s fighting against some pretty strong forces,” Dr. Schickler said.
Many conservatives, such as those who stormed the U.S. Capitol in the final days of Mr. Trump’s presidency, remain under the false belief that Mr. Biden won a rigged election and that his presidency is illegitimate. “Not my president” has become a common refrain on online message boards. Federal authorities have warned about the threats of far-right extremist groups.
But the demonstrators who mounted protests against Mr. Biden in Portland on Wednesday hailed from the left — and their skepticism about what lies ahead reflects the degree to which the new administration will have to build bridges in many directions.
In Charlottesville, Va., where a white supremacist rally offered a look at rising right-wing violence early in Mr. Trump’s presidency, those who have fought for racial justice said Mr. Biden’s unity effort also requires accountability for the perpetrators of racial violence, not just calls to come together in peace.
In Minneapolis, the community organizer Marcia Howard said Mr. Biden’s elevation to the presidency meant that those who have hoped to create a world without the police need to double down on their efforts.
The president and his allies have paid “lip service” to issues of racial equity, police brutality and mass incarceration, she said. “And now they must be pressed to put action where their mouths are.”
In Seattle on Wednesday, a crowd of about 150 people marched through the streets chanting both anti-Trump and anti-Biden slogans. One member of the group handed out fliers that said: “Biden won! And so did corporate elites!” The fliers argued that a “Democratic administration is not a victory for oppressed people” and “Biden will not save us.”
“I came out here because no matter what happens, Biden and Kamala aren’t enough,” said one of the protesters, Alejandro Quezada Brom, 28, referring to Vice President Kamala Harris. He said the new president needed to know that “the pressure’s not off” for progress on immigration and policing reforms.
Patrisse Cullors, a co-founder of the Black Lives Matter Global Network, said she had met with members of Mr. Biden’s transition team and held initial conversations with Merrick Garland, the attorney general nominee, and Pete Buttigieg, the transportation secretary nominee. They agreed to sit with Black Lives Matter organizers for more formal meetings once the administration was in office, she said.
She said she believed that Mr. Biden was off to a good start with the executive order he signed on racial equity, which included things her group had discussed with the transition team around eradicating white supremacy and discrimination in communities and government agencies.
Protesters in Portland smashed windows and vandalized the local Democratic Party headquarters.Credit...Alisha Jucevic for The New York Times
But that was hardly enough, Ms. Cullors said. She said Black Lives Matter would be pushing the administration hard in areas where some of Mr. Biden’s past positions have not always aligned with the movement’s goals.
“We’re going to really push this administration to look at ending police terror and mass incarceration,” she said. “And that can’t happen through body cameras. It can’t happen through more training. We actually have to look at the budgets of police departments at the national level to the local level. And we have to look at the budgets of everything else, every other social aid program and social service program.”
At one of the lower-key events on Wednesday in Portland, about 200 people gathered under the lights at Irving Park, sharing pizza and visions for the coming four years.
Ray Austin, 25, was the one who described Mr. Biden to the crowd as a “feckless puppet,” declaring that he “is only president because of his ties to corporate interests” — a proclamation that brought clapping and cheers. “My friends, the fight has just begun,” he said.
A series of speakers laid out urgent goals ahead where they said Mr. Biden seemed unlikely to lead the way: a Green New Deal to fight climate change, a “Medicare for All”-style health insurance system, overhauls of police departments to address racial disparities.
Law enforcement made arrests outside an ICE building in Portland.Credit...Alisha Jucevic for The New York Times
Reese Monson, one of the leaders in Portland’s Black Lives Matter movement, said he welcomed the inauguration and Mr. Biden’s early promises. He also expressed hope about Ms. Harris, the first Black vice president. But he said activists would need to keep up the pressure to ensure that the changes enacted go far enough.
“No matter who is in political power, we’re not going to stop until we get justice,” Mr. Monson said. “And even then we want to make sure it’s real justice.”
In the aftermath of George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis last May, protesters in Portland mobilized on the streets nightly, much of their ire targeted at the mayor and the police force that repeatedly used tear gas to subdue them. The crowds swelled during the summer after Mr. Trump issued an executive order to protect federal property and agents wearing camouflage brought a crackdown to the city.
On Wednesday night, one rowdy group of protesters gathered at a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement building in the city, targeting the harsh deportation and detention tactics that the agency had used against immigrants. Mr. Biden began his presidency with executive orders on immigration that made it clear he would chart a much different course than Mr. Trump, but the crowd wanted more, calling for abolition of the immigration-enforcement agency. Some protesters spray-painted graffiti on the building: “Reunite families now.”
Minutes later, a line of federal agents in camouflage and tactical gear emerged from the building and began firing tear gas and pepper balls into the crowd — a scene that had unfolded similarly on dozens of nights in Portland over the past year.
The parallels were not lost on the crowd.
As one person held a lighter below a Biden-for-president flag, another chanted a phrase often seen on conservative message boards: “Not my president.”
Mike Baker reported from Portland, and John Eligon from Kansas City, Mo. Hallie Golden contributed reporting from Seattle.
Mike Baker is the Seattle bureau chief, reporting primarily from the Northwest and Alaska. @ByMikeBaker
John Eligon is a Kansas City-based national correspondent covering race. He previously worked as a reporter in Sports and Metro, and his work has taken him to Nelson Mandela's funeral in South Africa and the Winter Olympics in Turin. @jeligon
Protesters asking for better police behavior, dancing around a police car insulting the cops, surprised when the cop accelerates and runs over protesters. I'm sure at trial he'll note he was expressing his 1st Amendment rights, and they were impeding police activity. Where are the grownups? Presumably at home, avoiding the shitshow.
Meanwhile, half of Bay Area that can is packing up & moving to Austin. How much of Portland and Seattle is doing the same? Who needs sky-high rents in a pandemic when all it invites are more assholes in the streets. Can't even give the new administration some time to normalize things.
Note the Grand Theft Auto guys to start - *they* think it's cool - all good fun until someone puts an eye out gets run over.
the officer was trying to clear the crowd, using the car loudspeaker, when people surrounded him and began pounding on the windows, she said. “He was afraid they would break his glass” and sped away to protect himself, she said. Two people were hospitalized and the officer is on leave. Afterward, protesters gathered at the scene to demand action against the officer.
Gueas they didn't see what happened to the lady in the Capitol, where security was also worried about glass breaking. Protesters not too clever.
Can't even give the new administration some time to normalize things.
just a reminder that certain protesters straight out chant that they want to "fuck Joe Biden", not part of their plan to let let the administration normalize things, looking for chaos and hopefully subsequent revolution
this is an interesting video, it's like a permanent game of cat and mouse war, looks almost like one protester volunteers to provoke per night, the feds are ready and waiting, everybody knows their roles, rinse and repeat, night after night:
I really appreciate you posting about that incident as you have so that I didn't have to.
Would like to add to your big picture comments: one of the things that just struck me as sooooo counterproductive is the examples protesting focused on certain gentrifying neighborhoods, with the intent of scaring the shit out of gentrifiers and making them feel guilt. The effective goal is: chase them out, so it can be a ghetto again. Because if you chase away people who can pay taxes, that's what you get: a ghetto! Forget police, cities cannot pay social workers or do things like maintain public housing properly or even pick up garbage, with no one paying property taxes or any kind of taxes. Sales taxes can't do much when all you're selling in a city is the exempt basics of life, like food and clothing under a certain amount. If it's all a dump, it's going to stay that way without like a patron or something.
I'd look at some of those kind of protesters and it seemed like many were college student types. Made sense: transients who don't really get it at all.
Comments
from the above:
Protesters smashed windows at the Democratic Party of Oregon’s headquarters in Portland after the inauguration of President Biden.Credit...Lindsey Wasson/Reuters
ending paragraphs:
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 1:24am
video tweeted 7 hrs. ago by NYTimes' reporter covering the northwest
can't vouch for this independent but I notice her twitter account is followed by a competitor, Justin Yau, who I have learned over time is a very trustworthy protest journo
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 1:31am
Coverage by The Oregonian stresses the anti-Democratic-party and pro-anarchist nature of it (note the "we are ungovernable" sign)
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 1:36am
Protesters march through downtown Seattle, arrests made for property damage
By Heidi Groover @ Seattletimes.com, Updated Jan. 20, 2021 at 10:00 pm
more detail in her twitter feed; a sampling:
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 1:54am
Zakhir Kahn's opinion:
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 2:03am
more from Mike Baker--the "fuck Joe Biden" chant this evening:
Meanwhile, ironically, Sergio Olmos and Justin Yau, who have mainly covered the Portland area protests night after day after night for months, traveled to D.C. for the inauguration, probably expecting some action shots of right wing anarchists for a little variety after spending so much time with left-wing ones, but all they seem to see are the occupying forces, marching National Guard:
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 2:23am
Yglesias on yet another Mike Baker video:
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 3:27am
I guess the 7 hour honeymoon is over.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 3:29am
well they wouldn't like ANY president, so there's that! we just have a serious problem in this country with anarchists, mostly right, but there's plenty of lefties, too. They don't want a president or a federal government, they give a shit about the political parties (except some libertarian) because they are national, and they don't like policing. They coopted a lot of BLM protests, they liked that everyone was out on streets and could be agitated to either fight cops or wear them out during covid so looting and arson and even injury to police could occur. Like Putin they want to stoke chaos to break down our evil federal imperialist empire. It's ironic that they would love Ronnie's joke that "I'm from the federal government and I'm here to help."
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 3:50am
Some people just want to see the world burn - even while muttering supposed solutions.
Yes, a Workers' Paradise was a noble goal - just the path to supposedly *try* to get there didn't quite run through paradise.
Pol Pot came up with the brilliant idea of "Return to Year Zero" when we were pristine and pure (hardly any pollution!!! Radically reduced food needs!!!)
Or as the Big Bad Wolf said, "Give me Single Payer Healthcare and $15 minimum or I'll blow your house down!")
The pigs were not amused.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 4:42am
A Return to Serious
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 4:46am
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 6:45am
^ IMPORTANT! Dems need to realize that just because we have a lot of people saying to pollsters that they believe the election was stolen from Trump doesn't mean that they are going to act out and start a revolution about it. Effectively, they are now just no different than liberals who believed the election was stolen from Clinton for the last four years, just way more irrational. The split is still there, but no need to be in constant fear of revolution from them. Most are observing rule of law, the balance is issues about speech.and politics.
We don't crack down on schizophrenics when they babble, either, only when they act out.
The label "extremists" is basically correctly being used for those acting out illegally.
We do have too many extremists acting out in this country right now. Unfortunately we also have increasing interest in buying guns to deal with that and also in forming militias! That is anti-rule of law. (AND the slogans "defund police" and moreso "abolish police" is feeding the anti-rule-of-law zeitgeist. Ask yourself if you are happy that the stormers of the Capitol are being arrested and prosecuted. If you are, then don't say we need fewer police. Social workers are not trained to deal with anti-government extremists acting out. They are not going to deal with antifa that well, either.)
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 2:39pm
Until the Capitol riot blew up, there was a better chance these state protests would have gotten more traction.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 3:48pm
And still managed like another Halloween party where the armed children in costumes were treated with kid gloves.
by moat on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 3:53pm
Here Ford Fischer calls the Portland crew who attacked the Dem office "antifa activisits" and correctly, I think. Quite a few of this kind of protester uses that label themselves. It just means anti-fascist, after all. I think liberals got to let go of not using the term just because right-wing media started using it broadly inaccurately over the summer. If you want to really understand what certain radical groups are really about. They are proud to be "antifa":and they think the U.S. is "fa"
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 2:19pm
Fox News is lovin this and headlining this as "Unrest Explodes Across West, Left Wing Insurrection". What the core GOP base wants to hear, "Both Sides!" "Whatabout!"
Arta, we can always count on you for what goes on in Portland!
150 anarchists in Portland, some arrested, a flag burned in Denver a window broken in Seattle = West Coast Insurrection?
Real Insurrection: 30,000+ Trumpers called and scheduled for a riot by Trump and GOP, animal skinned, armed, ginned up by lies of the Republican Party and it's President cult leader, rioters prepared with special gear and shields, zip ties, clenched fist incited by GOP Senator, their own mace guns, rope, baseball bats, bullet proof vests, gallows set up with noose, Congress offices invaded, computers stolen (alleged attempt by a thieving patriot to sell Pelosi's to the Russians), Congress persons sought, calls for Pence to be captured, beating one Capitol cop to death, and 5 dead.
by NCD on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 5:39pm
Bigger news than Fox - madam press scty gonna bitchslap these guys before it's over
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 01/21/2021 - 6:07pm
It wasn't Trump encouraging violence, it was the Woke.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 1:05am
Strawman argument. No one here has said Trump didn't encourage violence. In fact no one here has posted more videos of the violence at the capitol than Arta. If one isn't tribal it's possible to criticize multiple groups from many political persuasions. It's because you're so extremely tribal that you can only criticize those you disagree with and excuse or at least ignore the violence if you agree with them.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 1:18am
Thank you for taking the time to be supportive on this, oceankat, NOT BECAUSE OF ME BUT BECAUSE this is how the Trumpie deluded got where they are! AND ONE OF MAJOR PROBLEMS FOR OUR WHOLE SOCIETY., this is how we are where we are.
Doing tribal thinking and reporting AND partisan thinking and reporting, both include denial of the big picture. Shutting mind's eye to inconvenient facts in order to support a one sided narrative and spinning your side as bigger.
It's a method of advocacy for a cause. It's the same thing that lawyers use in a trial before a jury, they leave out the damning details that hurt their client and tell the story of only those things that help the narrative that supports their. client.. Except that in our trial system with advocates presenting two opposing narratives, the jury is REQUIRED to listen to both sides spin! And more often then not, come up with a judgment inbetween the two because that is where the truth usually lies.
I have had an interest in extremist radical groups intent on destabilizing "western" civilization as we know it since becoming interested in what was going on with Al Qaeda and the Taliban and the northern alliance in the 90's. If you made sweeping tribal judgments there, it usually did not work out to benefit. I.E., the worst one could do is think they were all the same Muslim towel heads and were all your same enemy. Thinking the northern alliance was the same as the Taliban would also be a mistake. Even thinking the Taliban and Al Qaeda were the same was a big mistake.
One little thing right off the bat is damaging to partisan cause, backfires big time and is counter productive: denial that BLM protests and related anarchist protesting embraced rather than decried:
they ended causing far far more property damage than right-wing extremists this year. The right-wing nut cases specialize more in causing fear and loathing of bodily damage, but not that much really happens, THEY ATTACK SYMBOLS and plot against major politicians to cause fear, just like Islamic terrorists do.
The people who live in those areas know what happened via leftwing anarchist provocation, they aren't going to believe spin about it all being peaceful and harmless, no matter how much you spin it. It was real chaos and destruction, not as much terrorizing of the mind with what could happen, just real destruction, like war.
Tell that to Macy's in Chicago and Manhattan or the people of Santa Monica whose nice little downtown got nearly destroyed or the businesses now in Portland who are giving up the ghost because the insurance rates have skyrocketed, the last straw after many other challenges, the people in Kenosha who had to pay for government buildings destroyed and a downtown ruined, the granny in Minneapolis with the only food store close by burned down and police station and other services burned to the ground, the business owners stuck inside anarchist CHAZ-land in Seattle, the Italian-Americans who saw their statues of Columbus torn down without any due process majority will, the Catholics who saw their statues of Fr. Junipero Serro torn down as if now they were hated and should fear outing their beliefs, the people of Nashville who had to deal with arson and other damage to their historic courthouse, the black police chief of Portland begging for community support after serious continuing damage to the Multinomah Courthouse, especially eloquent,.not to mention little things like the local Starbucks windows always getting broken in many downtowns,
I'd venture a guess that quite a few of those are Hispanic business owners who voted for Trump and/or GOP for House, but that's spinning.. still I can see them saying "peaceful my ass"
I certainly know some swing voters in the NYC tri-state area who see ZERO difference between the shaman guy plundering the Capitol and fthe marching "spoiled brats" who defaced and damaged much of Manhattan this summer so that it all became a boarded up dystopian looking place, when until the end of May it had just sat unprotected and quiet with hardly no one touching anything. For some reason, people followed rule of law until the end of May and then all hell broke loose and every downtown in the country got boarded up. We all wish we had invested in plywood.
You have to be blind not to see that a minority of lefty protesters were out to really burn this country's urban centers left empty because of the pandemic to a state of hopelessness this summer.
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 4:16am
I noticed lefty, most yuppie Brooklyn types, including lots of whites, using "fuck Joe Biden" as a chant already in July, this is a clip I posted on Dag
in looking that up, ran across this one, a perfect example of just another mediocre example we forgot about happening this summer that the people living there probably will NEVER forget their whole life-the summer of CHAOS and covid
and just one example from the summer of "both sides" using guns during the summer, that has been conveniently forgotten
both were posted on dag by me.
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 4:35am
Portland is the same as storming the Capitol, stealing things, constructing a gallows, and shouting "Hang Pence"?
Edit to add:
The views of a DC resistant
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/01/15/washington-dc-under-siege/?arc404=true
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 8:03am
"Portland is the same"
We can discuss what is similar and what is different in the manifestations of mob violence and property destruction we're seeing recently if you want. What you can't reasonably do is state that a criticism of one group means we're not saying other groups aren't a problem too. Especially when all but one person posting here clearly stated that Trump incited his supporters to mob violence
by ocean-kat on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 11:13am
I responded to NCD's comment about Portland and how it differs from the Capitol attack.
The Woke comment was added because some suggest that summer protests made some wingnuts take to the streets
The wingnuts were out in force attacking pastors and running over people in Charlottesville
Their snarling faces were seen inside the Capitol building in Michigan, with some carrying arms
The wingnuts did not need "lefties" to attack
Their actions are of their own free will
Regarding responses to posts about protests or crime, I have no obligation to respond in a manner that you determine is proper.
I respond to some, I ignore others, as we all do.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 11:26am
" I have no obligation to respond in a manner that you determine is proper."
You can reply or not how ever you want. But as I said, "What you can't reasonably do is state that a criticism of one group means we're not saying other groups aren't a problem too." You can be irrational. You can lie. But the simple fact is that only one person here supports the claim that you posted, "It wasn't Trump encouraging violence" All the rest of us condemned both Trump for inciting mob violence and his violent protestors. And you can expect to be called out when you lie.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 12:33pm
I was focusing on the opinion that the protests of the summer led to the wingnut protests.
I stand by my opinion that the wingnuts are self starters.
Police abuse is real
The stolen election is a lie
If you break the law in either case, you should go to jail
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 11:54am
You mean the street vandalism of summer and fall leading to rightwing riots and vandalism and violence?
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 1:24pm
The Right had already been in the streets. (Charlottesville, Michigan Capitol)
I guess that it is easier to see them as people who were made to do it by BLM
The Right was already committing violent acts.
You are free to continue with your delusion that BLM made them do it
I am not concerned because Biden recognizes the problem
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/22/opinion/biden-white-supremacy.html
FBI director Wray told Congress that White supremacists were the biggest domestic terror threat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY7P0ETDfls
The acting chief of DHS agreed
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-intelligence-homeland/acting-u-s-dhs-security-intelligence-chief-says-he-agrees-with-fbi-on-white-supremacist-threat-idUSKBN26N35E
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 1:58pm
"I guess that it is easier to see them as people who were made to do it by BLM"
That's just another strawman. I don't think people are saying the riots in the capitol was made to happen by the riots and looting of BLM protestors the previous year. Just that mob violence that goes uncontrolled and unpunished leads to increased mob violence. If the violent right wing mob in the capitol aren't held to account for their actions imo it will embolden both the left and the right to greater mob violence.
Discussing this from a tribal or partisan view is simplistic and incomplete. Like the excellent article Arta linked I think it's about mob rule versus rule of law.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 2:37pm
The strawman argument is that "good" behavior by BLM will be met by "good" behavior by those on the Right.
The problem is that White supremacists are not called domestic terrorists
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/11/us-capitol-attack-warning-signs-charlottesville-michigan
The wingnuts were never put in check. That alone is the problem. We still don't know who placed functional pipe bombs in DC. The strawman argument is that both sides do it.
When Black people see the white wingnuts breech the Capitol and come out alive, it reminds them of the double standard in the United States. There would be dead Black or Muslim bodies if a different ethnic group surged the Capitol. If BLM was responsible for the Capitol attack, BLM members around the country would be rounded up, not treated on a case by case basis.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 2:55pm
Police response to BLM in Minneapolis
https://www.npr.org/2021/01/09/955221274/now-the-world-gets-to-see-the-difference-blm-protesters-on-the-capitol-attack
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 3:03pm
"The strawman argument is that "good" behavior by BLM will be met by "good" behavior by those on the Right."
That is a strawman argument, one that I don't see anyone making here. Or at least it's an opinion I disagree with. I haven't read any articles making that argument either though I suppose someone somewhere might have said it. So I wonder why you're bringing it up here. Once again, the argument I see and that I agree with is " that mob violence that goes uncontrolled and unpunished leads to increased mob violence."
by ocean-kat on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 3:43pm
My position is that the the Proud Boys, etc. do not need an action by another group to justify committing a violent act.
That is why I bring it up here.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 3:49pm
Who exactly is making that claim? Who are you debating with? No one here made any such claim. Do you have a link to the article that you're disputing? Because I haven't seen anyone make that claim. It seems to me you're making up that claim and debating yourself instead of discussing the views people here have posted.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 4:22pm
Have a nice day. Enjoy the weekend.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 4:23pm
and back to my point: this is something that Trump FAMOUSLY DID ALL THE TIME. Again, I appreciate you calling it out. Not because I myself am tired of everyone here simply going along with the creative narrative thing on this, I think it's important for more people to start challenging this shit. on social media. No more Miz Nice Gal.
{A really absurd part of it: the lack of understanding of the difference between analysis and criticism of "the woke" movement in culture and analysis of extremists and anarchists!!! FOR CHRISSAKES they are not one and the same thing and nobody says the are! Only in his very suspicious mind. That's why I asked politely for him to stay off my "wokee" thread, he did not even understand what it was about--no clue-- just would constantly drag it over to unrelated politics and activism, presuming intent that was not there at all and way off topic.]
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 5:51pm
You have a nice weekend as well.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 6:22pm
even that sounds familiar "have a nice life". reminds me of Fitzgerald's they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.”
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 6:53pm
Yes, there are so many subgroups and some of the "right and the left" over lap. There's even some on the "left" who mainly or exclusively thought this is a really good time to steal some shit. What bothered me is that some real protestors that didn't loot a thing didn't distance themselves from the looters and even defended them calling theft reparations.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 6:37pm
that, the making of excuses for looters who have no interest in their cause, but are taking advantage of their situation, is not just dishonest, it's just plain stupid. stupid stupid stupid tribalism based on skin color, oh here's some black criminals, because they have the same skin color, let's pretend we're all on the same chord. Of course criminals gonna go along with them, are against police, have always been. DOH. You would think the last thing you'd want if you were trying to argue that we need less policing is to include profiteeing criminals in your tribe...
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 7:01pm
$25,000 bail for a pro Trump anti-masker just for making violent threats against a government building in a restaurant in Weaverville, CA; no weapons found in his home or vehicle:
Portland lefties didn't get treated as roughly all summer actually throwing firey projectiles at a federal courthouse, and attempting to commit arson against more than a few government buildings--though the fires were all put out in time, ripping down fencing, injuring Fed. officers, etc.
Why wouldn't he think just boasting about attacking was no big deal? Attacking government buildings was not treated as a big deal in Portland except by Barr and Trump--walls of moms come out to support doing so...
Trump and Barr eventually gave up and the federal "goons" left at the request of the governor. She sent in the Oregon State Police, they got fed up that nobody they arrested was being prosecuted
Here you go, I posted this on Dag when it happened. Crickets, no outrage.from liberals, they didn't care that a Federal courthouse was being attacked continually and no one was being prosecuted for it.
the only other thing on that thread
why wouldn't right-wing extremists think it was okay to attack federal buildings? Lots of liberals support lefties doing so! Or at least they don't speak out about no prosecution. All summer: fuck cops and feds, we hate em, who needs enforcement of the laws, we'll just work it out ourselves with social workers
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 7:22am
see below
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 8:15am
let's refresh memories a bit more; here's a few more reminders of the summer:
from thread
'STATE OF EMERGENCY' DECLARED BY LOUISVILLE POLICE AHEAD OF BREONNA TAYLOR DECISION
By artappraiser on Tue, 09/22/2020 - 2:24am |
one item: CALLING OUT NATIONAL GUARD IN ANOTHER STATE! About one case far away! Is that logical that that is happening? While hundreds of minorities are dying from violence and covid every day! Is that really logical to have fear of that level of unrest? Guard already out in Kentucky! Taxpayers have to pay for it.
A MESSAGE FROM MAYOR JOHN COOPER, NASHVILLE (A DEMOCRAT)
By artappraiser on Sun, 05/31/2020 - 12:22am |
CRICKETS from BLM!
Mayor of Dallas, Texas, a black Democrat:
In cahoots with the police unions? Apologist for law and order.
Independent mayor of San Antonio, Texas:
how dare he worry about vandalism to infrastructure buildings and public art in the business district. protecting while supremacy? who the hell does he think he is, instituting a curfew? we have anger and outrage to express in the night?
Cleveland
GO HOME, quit breaking the law and wrecking the joint for the rest of the people who live here:
L.A.
LA Mayor Garcetti: "This has moved from being a protest, to vandalism to destruction"
May 30, 2020
San Francisco
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 8:14am
The summer was violent.
The argument that rightwing groups were triggered by BLM etc has no basis in reality
White supremacist violence is the major security risk fog the United States
This risk existed long before George Floyd protests
From a 2019;review
https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdva/pr/opinion-grave-threats-white-supremacy-and-far-right-extremism
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 8:40am
a bit more memory refresh--a few photos from the slideshow with the A.P. article on Biden directly above
Armed protesters climb on a flipped over police vehicle Saturday, May 30, 2020, in Salt Lake City. Thousands of people converged on downtown Salt Lake City on Saturday to protest the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis, and some demonstrators set fire to a police car and threw eggs and wrote graffiti on a police station. (AP Photo/Rick Bowmer)
A protester on a bicycle rides past a burning police car during a demonstration next to the city of Miami Police Department, Saturday, May 30, 2020, downtown in Miami. Protests were held throughout the country over the death of George Floyd, a black man who was killed in police custody in Minneapolis on May 25. (AP Photo/Wilfredo Lee)
Demonstrators block the street as a Los Angeles Fire Department ambulance tries to get through during a protest over the death of George Floyd, Saturday, May 30, 2020, in Los Angeles. Protests were held throughout the country over the death of Floyd, a black man who died after being restrained by Minneapolis police officers on Memorial Day. (AP Photo/Mark J. Terrill)
Police officers protect themselves with shields as protesters throw debris during a rally Friday, May 29, 2020, in the Brooklyn borough of New York, at the Barclays Center over the death of George Floyd, a black man who was in police custody in Minneapolis. (AP Photo/Frank Franklin II)
Minnesota National Guard members maintain a position on Lake St., near S. Chicago Ave., protecting nearby firefighters following protests in the death of George Floyd, Saturday, May 30, 2020, in Minneapolis, MN.. (David Joles/Star Tribune via AP)
A pair of protesters attempt to stop others from throwing rocks and water bottles at police during a demonstration next to the city of Miami Police Department, Saturday, May 30, 2020, downtown in Miami (AP Photo/Wilfredo Lee)
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 8:32am
and what a surprise NOT, here is Karlyn Borysenko, psychologist, ex-Democrat convert to Trump fandom, explaining to her 76,000 followers on a Twitter thread how they need to see that the majority of peaceful Trump rallygoers vs. a small minority of Capitol rioters IS JUST LIKE the majority of peaceful BLM protesters vs. a small minority of rioters AND NOT ONLY THAT, they may indeed be kindred spirits who could join forces--
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 7:28pm
Not surprising. BLM was protesting 'harm', the murder of community members by abusive cops, demanding protection of civil rights and due process for suspects.
The Trump insurrection mob was scheduled, summoned, given a mission ('combat', 'be wild") by Trump and his Republican enablers to target our democratic representatives and stop a Constitutional process in order to overturn a democratic election.
Call it "TLM", Trump Lies Matter.
An election Trump had lied about for 2 months, in which there was no evidence presented in over 50 court cases that it was 'stolen'. 5 were left dead.
As the violence of the mob was broadcast to the world, Trump, initially gleeful according to Senator Sasse, finally came out and called them "special people' and that 'he loves them, go home'. This while members of Congress hid in closets. Trump family and associates danced the macarena just hours before the 'combat' prepared mob (riot shields, mace guns, hockey sticks, gas masks, baseball bats, zip ties, CB radios, tactical gear, etc) were unleashed on the Capitol by Trump.
The only 'harm' the Trump mob had was a lost election.
Their demand? That they have a 'right' to use violence for insurrection and political power, as they selfied themselves and bragged on social media about their crimes.
by NCD on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 8:44pm
Obviously the two situations were not the same
People entered the Capitol ready to harm people
The effort was directed at intimidating Congress to keep Trump,in power
Members in Congress who voted against certifying Biden are still in Congress
This is not both sides do it.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 9:31pm
TRUMP LIES MATTER..!! Republicans motto. Yes, no comparison.
Just thought that up, Dagblog first? ...haven't seen it anywhere.
by NCD on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 9:46pm
You should trademark the phrase
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 10:17pm
Ok, I would like to return to the original meme which I started with
(before I got into reminding readers of this thread that there actually was violence in many BLM demonstrations, they were not all peaceful, and not only that, they've left many downtowns in cities across the country still looking like shithole countries, all boarded up , damaged, even burned, and were the last straw for many small businesses after pandemic losses etc. etc.)
MY MAIN point is this:
That was after the Trump/Barr goons, left, their protection was by order of the governor!
If protesters are NOT PROSECUTED at all or are just given hand slaps for actions for which they are arrested attacking a FEDERAL BUILDING and/or its legally authorized guards, to return and do it again, night after night after night after night for months, and the force authorized by the duly elected government just gives up and leaves,and this is publicized
WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO OTHER KINDS OF PROTESTERS WITH TOTALLY DIFFERENT GRIEVANCES? Esepcially about attacking like, Federal buildings.
I think it says: you too can get away with this! Why not just do it?! What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
You might also think: because leftists are just taking over all whole sections of a city and declaring a new government, and police step back and treat it as not their country, just because they are (supposedly) somehow for a righteous cause of a people oppressed by the local goverment, a cause that no one will dispute and no one gets prosecuted for doing it, activists on the right might think about doing that too?
They could also think: hey, lookit, if you don't like the symbolism of something like a communally-owned statue or or a similar physical symbol, you can just tear it down without going through due democratic process without being prosecuted if you look angry enough and are willing to mob it.. Just because it offends you, you can attack it and people will make excuses for you.. Feelings rule. If you're angry and offended, you can get away with a lot, even if the fascist cops arrest you, they'll let you off. Because your cause is righteous.
They might also think: hey lookit, everybody on the left now hates cops and protests against them, even in blue high-crime cities, and instead of getting tough on crime, they are stepping back in fear. We could do that too!
by artappraiser on Sat, 01/23/2021 - 12:38am
Honestly Arta, this is all so obvious it shouldn't need to be said. It's amazing to me that we are debating it here.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 01/23/2021 - 12:38am
unfortunately, "the narrative" is still infecting big centrist media like CNN a bit:
(she also shoulda mentioned that some of the more violent in the Portland crew don't think that Joe Biden is their duly elected president)
by artappraiser on Sat, 01/23/2021 - 1:17am
I think related, the glamourizing of revolution, and/or the anti-democratic desire to off your political enemies:
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 8:57am
dupe of what I just posted elsewhere, on purpose:
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 9:07am
I'm not tracking intentional dupes, only obvious mistakes
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 9:48am
NYTimes reports from Portland (with comments from around the country) on finding a complicated mix of "just dedicated lefties", less on anarchist agitators but addressing the potential in the "not my president" types, includes some comparisons with the Capitol rally crowd: My highlighting of the last sentence:
They’re Breaking Glass and Criticizing Biden. From the Left.
As President Biden calls for unity and calmer rhetoric, his presidency began with burned flags and federal agents deployed once again into the streets
By Mike Baker & John Eligon @ NYTimes.com, July 21 (FULL COPY FOR FAIR USE RESEARCH PURPOSES, except left one photo out)
Federal agents used tear gas in Portland, Ore., against protesters gathered on Wednesday outside an Immigration and Customs Enforcement building near downtown.CreditCredit...Alisha Jucevic for The New York Times
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/22/2021 - 6:26pm
Protesters asking for better police behavior, dancing around a police car insulting the cops, surprised when the cop accelerates and runs over protesters. I'm sure at trial he'll note he was expressing his 1st Amendment rights, and they were impeding police activity. Where are the grownups? Presumably at home, avoiding the shitshow.
Meanwhile, half of Bay Area that can is packing up & moving to Austin. How much of Portland and Seattle is doing the same? Who needs sky-high rents in a pandemic when all it invites are more assholes in the streets. Can't even give the new administration some time to normalize things.
Note the Grand Theft Auto guys to start - *they* think it's cool - all good fun until someone
puts an eye outgets run over.by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 01/24/2021 - 5:30am
Gueas they didn't see what happened to the lady in the Capitol, where security was also worried about glass breaking. Protesters not too clever.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 01/24/2021 - 4:28pm
These mobs will push the boundaries farther and farther until they are stopped.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 01/24/2021 - 6:09pm
Can't even give the new administration some time to normalize things.
just a reminder that certain protesters straight out chant that they want to "fuck Joe Biden", not part of their plan to let let the administration normalize things, looking for chaos and hopefully subsequent revolution
by artappraiser on Mon, 01/25/2021 - 12:03am
chant I haven't noticed before from the crew that's been attacking the ICE building in Portland nightly for months:
"no borders, no nations, abolish deportation"
by artappraiser on Mon, 01/25/2021 - 12:10am
this is an interesting video, it's like a permanent game of cat and mouse war, looks almost like one protester volunteers to provoke per night, the feds are ready and waiting, everybody knows their roles, rinse and repeat, night after night:
by artappraiser on Mon, 01/25/2021 - 12:20am
I really appreciate you posting about that incident as you have so that I didn't have to.
Would like to add to your big picture comments: one of the things that just struck me as sooooo counterproductive is the examples protesting focused on certain gentrifying neighborhoods, with the intent of scaring the shit out of gentrifiers and making them feel guilt. The effective goal is: chase them out, so it can be a ghetto again. Because if you chase away people who can pay taxes, that's what you get: a ghetto! Forget police, cities cannot pay social workers or do things like maintain public housing properly or even pick up garbage, with no one paying property taxes or any kind of taxes. Sales taxes can't do much when all you're selling in a city is the exempt basics of life, like food and clothing under a certain amount. If it's all a dump, it's going to stay that way without like a patron or something.
I'd look at some of those kind of protesters and it seemed like many were college student types. Made sense: transients who don't really get it at all.
by artappraiser on Mon, 01/25/2021 - 12:37am