MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Serena loses her shit; new queen Osaka crowned
By PeraclesPlease on Sun, 09/09/2018 - 1:26am |URL:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/08/serena-williams-rails-at-umpire-as-superb-naomi-osaka-wins-us-open
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Comments
y'all know I don't have much interest in this sports stuff, but this tweet caught my eye
only because it was retweeted by Glenn Thrush, he of the forced NYTimes sabbatical for #Metoo related issues. [Aside: I've noticed he actually retweets a lot of stuff that implies feminist sympathies, so either the Times really sent him to a great re-education camp, or he was unfairly accused. I didn't follow him until after the controversy, so I don't have the earlier Thrush version to compare. Didn't know anything about him before that except for his caricature in Melissa McCarthy's Spicey sketches in SNL. Since then, I see a lot of caricaturing of him by others as a gruffy grungy old style newspaper guy with a soft heart.]
by artappraiser on Sun, 09/09/2018 - 9:04am
Horowitz's comment is germane. Nonsense about "John McEnroe! Ilie Nastase!" from 25-30 years ago makes me yawn. (though apparently McEnroe did get tossed from the Aussie Open, as well as banned from several venues).
But then apparently Serena is getting better.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1213164/Furious-Serena-Williams...
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 09/09/2018 - 11:05am
People can hold all sorts of ethical or political positions and firmly believe them yet still be unable to actualize them in their personal behavior. Or everything in a person's outward behavior can be a lie to hide atrocious private behavior.
As for Serena, I don't really care about sports but it seems a bit severe to award a point or a game for misbehavior. That would be the equivalent of awarding a home run or a touchdown for some player's misbehavior.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 09/09/2018 - 2:52pm
Where is the Basquiat thread? Saw the movie last night but having trouble finding the thread. Thanks.
by AmericanDreamer on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 9:29am
Right here.
by barefooted on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 3:29pm
Thank you!
by AmericanDreamer on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 3:58pm
interesting, the neo-con view, nothing if not consistent, heh:
by artappraiser on Sun, 09/09/2018 - 3:32pm
Yes, definitely not because he's woke.
by AmericanDreamer on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 4:00pm
Nobody's blaming Roger Federer, why not?
It's phlegmatic, cool tempered players like him who openly encourage chair umps to believe they are infallible dispensers of tennis righteousness and wisdom. Complicity..?
If Serena had head butted the ref chair, knocked it over and chased the guy off the court, yeah, that's likely a deduction.
But it's also what you do if you catch a robber in your house, and that court is her house.
by NCD on Sun, 09/09/2018 - 4:33pm
Uh, no, the court isn't her house - it's a place of business. Maybe she's a star attorney or a top salesperson, one of the key spokespersons - but that business still has security and procedures and what-not. Her dock point came after her 3rd warning. Whether she likes it or not, the judge has a job, qualifications for that job, responsibility to uphold *THE RULES THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS* - rules put in place to shut down the bad boys of yesteryear in fact. Serena a while ago told a judge should shove this fucking tennis ball down her goddamn throat - but it's ok because she's never done it so the woman shouldn't feel intimidated.
Kap went to a vet to talk about his protest, and the vet recommended kneeling rather than a sit-down.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 09/09/2018 - 5:32pm
So you don't agree beating the thief with her racquet was justified? (snark)
by NCD on Sun, 09/09/2018 - 7:22pm
However she came to court, this wasn't a caucus race, nor croquet. Do I make myself clear? Naturally.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 09/09/2018 - 9:26pm
Hadn’t paid much attention to this but I noted this review of events
https://www.etonline.com/serena-williams-defends-tearful-us-open-winner-naomi-osaka-fined-17k-after-controversial-loss
Serena was fined $17K
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 09/09/2018 - 8:55pm
It appears judge Ramos might be a pain the ass. But then why make it about "sexism"?
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/09/carlos-ramos-serena-willia...
And back in the "who ya gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?" category:
https://twitter.com/ringsau/status/1038626333473923072
(Billie Jean King's argument was that coaching should be allowed in all circumstances - and I told the cop this stretch of road should really be 60mph - next time I'll give him *her* number).
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 1:09am
edits to add: corrected "point" to "penalty" in third-to-last-sentence and corrected the Chair umpire's name.
Ramos, the highly experienced chair umpire, until Saturday apparently had a stellar reputation among female and male players. Serena in her post-match presser did not push back on that even a little. If he was in the wrong--and he was, I believe, unfortunately for both players--it was an aberration from his track record.
I don't happen to know if the rule defines coaching from the stands or not, but am guessing this will come up if it hasn't previously when they consider whether any changes are desirable. Is it coaching if the player does not see it or hear it?
On the replays, I was unclear on just where her coach was sitting relative to her but there was no evidence or indication that Serena saw him. The violation is actually against the coach, not the player, but the player of course gets penalized.
Chris Evert said after the match that she would prefer to see anything, any sort of hand signals, etc. from the stands by the coach allowed going forward, but not allow any on-court coaching during the four Grand Slam tournaments. It's not really possible to monitor whether it amounts to "coaching" since that would in effect require reading the mind of the player in at least some cases. That, at least, would be fairly or much more easily enforceable.
Serena and her coach clearly were not on the same page. Her coach candidly said that yes, he did coach from the stands when the warning was issued, and that all coaches do the same. He runs a tennis coaching outfit and comments on TV as though he is constantly recruiting for it, which he surely is. Serena, feeling her honor attacked as a result of the warning issued on account of her coach's gestures (which, again, cannot be assumed to imply the player even attended to it--part of the oddity or even incoherence of the rule) was at pains to assert that she does not "cheat" and would rather lose. Serena said she never seeks or receives coaching during her matches, either from the stands or through the allowable on-court coaching opportunities.
In that situation, I think she needed to keep her cool and not over-react to the first warning. She may well have been unaware that breaking her racket constituted a second warning and put her in peril of forfeiting a full game on a third penalty.
I have a hard time believing the Chair umpire would have issued a game penalty to another player in that very high-stakes situation, male or female, black, white or neither. As noted in the thread, that just doesn't happen, let alone at a critical moment in a Grand Slam tournament. Serena at that point definitely had a chance to win the tournament even though she was trailing in the match and Osaka was showing no signs of buckling under the pressure. The TV announcers, none people of color, unsurprisingly did not broach race as a potential factor.
At a minimum the Chair umpire in that situation also needed to keep his composure and should have issued a warning that if Serena continued she would be issued a third code of conduct penalty. In that situation, his failure to do that really was seriously unfair to Serena.
My two pennies.
by AmericanDreamer on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 11:54am
The WTA criticizes the umpire
https://www.thedailybeast.com/womens-tennis-association-slams-umpire-for-unfair-treatment-of-serena-williams-at-us-open?ref=home
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 11:33am
They're right.
by AmericanDreamer on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 11:51am
Tough decision for WTA's Steve Simon - sign on to a perfectly meaningless complaint about someone else's org, or cause an uproar by not joining & resign in 1-2 days..
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 12:20pm
Creating a scene in the middle of a championship match you are losing and ranting about your character being traduced by a "thief" is not the time or place to make self serving claims of sexism by the overseeing organization.
You criticize organization policy off the court and before the tournament and have prepared data and input from other contestants and umpire representation.
Apparently Serena didn't even ask her coach if he was "coaching" from the stands but was only informed about it, that he said he did, by the press. It's a clear case of poor communication with her coach (why would he do it if she "never cheats"?) and why not ask him if he did on a match break which communication is allowed so you can get the facts before blowing up for the third violation?
by NCD on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 12:43pm
But she has a daughter...
Now extended to right to behave as abhorrently as all white male players of all time.
ETA apparently that having a daughter really is important, as well as this incident showing how tough black women have it at work - file under "things I learned from a $100 million athlete screaming at an umpire". Because who amongst us doesn't feel repressed by not being able to call a client or inspector "a thief" or deny what's caught on video.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/10/serena-williams-bl...
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 12:53pm
Not necessarily.
Saturday's fiasco creates the likelihood of an offseason discussion among the tennis poo-bahs about what the single appropriate set of expectations and rules will be for both women and men going forward. As probably should have happened some time ago, and as some no doubt have been advocating should take place for a while now. Until now there just wasn't a high-profile impetus to deal with it.
It also creates an excuse for the tennis poo-bahs to establish--if they decide it best to do so, and I would think they might get some suggestions/pressures to do so--an internal process for monitoring, on a routine, ongoing basis, how chair umpires are exercising their discretion, now including whether there is different code of conduct treatment of women and men in comparable circumstances.
It's predictable that even if there is an explicit, or more explicit, directive that chair umpires are to apply the same standards for penalties to women as to men--whatever the tennis rulers may decide to say about what those will be--like baseball home plate umpires, tennis umpires will make different discretionary judgment calls from one another, especially in the inevitable grey areas.
Baseball players know some home plate umpires have a high strike zone, or a large strike zone, or whatever, and they adjust. So long as each individual umpire is consistent in how they call balls and strikes, and within a game particularly, players generally are not thought to have much of a case if they beef about the calls, so long as that plate umpire's strike zone is within some undefined zone of acceptability (And I've never heard of an established umpire disciplined or fired because their strike zone was deemed unacceptable to the point of being outside a norm the league will enforce on that. Within-game impartiality seems to be the main focus, with fairness and consistency across different umpires apparently receiving far less attention.)
The tennis situation is in some ways trickier because obviously one can't compare how the same chair umpire is treating women vs. the way they are treating men within the same match. It will require trying to come up with what are the reasonable contextual factors that should be looked at in monitoring whether particular chair umpires are treating women and men differently when it comes to assessing code violations.
The change process will start to take root when all of the chair umpires, before they assess violations, internalize that they need to ask themselves, before they decide, if they would treat the situation the same regardless of whether they were umpiring a womens or a mens match. That should reduce the incidence of obvious double standards.
If the chair umpire on Saturday had been able to control his temper and ask himself that question before he dinged Serena for the third time, that would have been yet one more way the situation might have been mostly averted.
This just does not appear to be an insoluble problem to deal with. If there is will to deal with it. Which there may now be. It's been a sore spot among some women players for a long time. Instead of burying their heads in the sand, I hope the powers that be will just deal with it, correct the injustice, and move on. In doing so, they would be wise to solicit the views and/or direct participation of the WTA, among interested others from all points of view, on just what the single set of standards for code violation assessments should be, for women and men alike.
by AmericanDreamer on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 1:41pm
The chair umpire couldn't control his temper? She smashed her racquet, then screamed at him. I didn't see him lose his temper. Maybe you'll appreciate this point of view:
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 4:15pm
Yes, my read was that they both lost their temper (she far more visibly and obviously so) and that's what allowed the situation to degenerate. My sense is that almost all umpires in that situation would, appropriately, have found a way to de-escalate and not take the extreme step of issuing the third violation given that it was going to cost Williams an entire game, at that critical point in the match. At least not without issuing her a warning that it was coming unless she stopped berating him. He had ample discretion to go either way. He must have been raging inside, I infer.
by AmericanDreamer on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 5:11pm
A lot of inference. In soccer you get a yellow card, you know you're not far from getting a red. Tennis is different, but after smashing her racquet and then screaming at him that he's a thief, do you want him to get her a pillow, dry her tears? She's paid damn well for what she does - banked $170 million - which should include knowing she's going too far. But she's playing the sympathy card.
We just spent a week with Kavanaugh where he's lying his ass off with proof. Why do we need another round of "liar liar pants on fire" topped with "I have a daughter"* and then the obligatory sexist/racist accusations. Just play ball, for god's sakes - you already ruined Osaka's moment, and now Serena wants to be thw hero of that too.
*I'm guessing the daughter bit was tied to the ruling against her new uniform, and while it might have medical use post-birthing, it's also part of her fashion empire - she likely thought she could push through something radical without deigning to ask permission or negotiate.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 5:32pm
I didn't want him to get her a pillow, no. And no, I don't admire the way she handled herself, as I thought I said. I just didn't want the chair umpire to allow her actions combined with his responses to them to become the story. I don't think he helped his own reputation, either.
by AmericanDreamer on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 6:14pm
Like any other sport, officiating changes with the import of the game. In the NFL during the playoffs, you'll find them less likely to penalize every offense because it slows the game, which means annoying the TV audience and screwing up commercial time. Likewise with the NBA and, to a lesser extent, MLB. It's a thing.
Yeah, she's been paid damn well. And?
Her accusations are not obligatory - as in, she made them (as she has in the past) of her own free will in the moment. I doubt she felt obliged to do so. Nor, by the way, was she obliged to make her opponent's win sweeter. But she tried. If you don't like how, that's on you, not her.
And oh, yeah there's this - she can talk about her daughter any time and any where she damn well pleases. Would you say a father shouldn't mention his kid because ...
by barefooted on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 6:42pm
That's on me? FFS I don't even watch tennis - I'm just responding to what her pout meltdown brought to the news - I thought Nike would gloat in the Kaepernick news this week, not having another of their stars lose it.
She can talk about foot rash or clinical psychology as well, I don't give a fuck - but it seems loony tied to a meltdown on a tennis court. "You ran into my car." "I have a daughter!" "Here's your summons for a hearing." "I have a daughter!" "Looks like a hurricane is going to bash the East Coast". "I have a daughter." I wish I'd thought of this non-sequitur earlier for getting out of exactly... nothing. I'm sure the fans at the stadium were really interested in her or my daughter that day.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 09/11/2018 - 3:11am
After reading about a dozen articles on this from both sides it's seems pretty clear that men get much more leave way to express negative emotions than women. I don't see how you can deny it. I keep waiting for those condemning Williams to produce examples of men getting equivalent point or game penalties for equivalent behavior or even worse behavior and I have yet to see it. There really are three options here. We can have a double standard where women are expected to behave with more decorum and restraint than men. We can let the women behave with the same loose behavior as men. Or we can expect the men to behave with the same standards as the women.
The suggestion that we should offer to get her a pillow is asinine bullshit. You should be embarrassed for posting something that stupid.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 7:03pm
This anti-pro-sports person would love to see a return to the world of gentlemanly sports! It took a long time for western culture to move away from the gladiator thing of Rome. All that work came crashing down when big money came into the picture. The Olympics still tries to get back to that ancient Greek thing, but alas, the money troubles have infiltrated there, too.
by artappraiser on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 7:10pm
"Gentlemanly sports"? Et tu, arta?
by barefooted on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 7:37pm
This anti-pro-sports person would love to see a return or move to a world where so many people stopped watching sports that those who wanted to play got merely an adequate salary. None of this millions bullshit. But then, I'd like to see them start watching ballet and modern dance, quality rock, jazz, opera, or classical music. I'd like to see quality arts get enough interest to be well funded. So I guess you can just label me an elitist and be done with it.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 7:49pm
I'm on board with ya, sounds like an excellent elitist idea! No more bread and circuses!
by artappraiser on Mon, 09/10/2018 - 7:59pm
I'm sorry - someone of her stature should get a futon, not a pillow. Mea culpa.
I posted Martina Navratilova's response and it says it all - to paraphrase, "yes, there's plenty to fight about sexism & double standards on the court (and off), but Serena picked the wrong way to do it".
The example everyone came up with at first was distinctly wrong - that McEnroe had been disqualified and banned before, and rules have been toughened over the years to make players behave themselves.
I'm really gobsmacked that people think the umpire's job is to babysit players rather than make sure the game proceeds fairly. The example of a judge encouraging some male player with "you're better than this, let's get on with it" was unprofessional - the opposing player *builds* this kind of frustration as an advantage, or at least takes advantage of it - an umpire getting into the fray only tips the scales.
Okay, so players *usually* aren't given such penalties towards the end of a crucial match - yet players will try to take advantage of that custom as well, so we'll find a new point of acceptance, a new Overton Window of more equal but more outlandish on-court behavior. Maybe Serena can threaten the ump with a raised racquet next time rather than her wagging finger - she's never smashed anyone's head, so he shouldn't feel intimidated according to her acclaimed logic.
Enough - I'll let the millionaire sportsters fight it out among themselves - would rather hear what Kap & Eric have to say this week.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 09/11/2018 - 3:22am
I think Serena makes it more difficult for umpires to apply a double standard when judging tennis matches
Serena’s comment
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/opinion/serena-williams-tennis-usopen.html
Why the discussion about Osaka benefiting from a stance on black womanhood? Naomi’s father is Haitian
https://people.com/sports/naomi-osaka-everything-to-know-about-us-open-c...
Edit to add:
Similar experessions of Black women identifying with Serena Williams
https://blackamericaweb.com/2018/09/11/black-women-can-relate-to-serena-williams-u-s-open-outrage-and-the-backlash-that-followed/
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 09/11/2018 - 8:51am
Why does Naomi Osaka need Serena Williams to "go through this"? She seems to be doing fine if Williams will let her proceed to the winner's circle.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 09/11/2018 - 9:18am
Serena is not hampering Osaka. In fact, as I noted above, Serena stopped the booing when Osaka took to the podium.Osaka has a great story. The Google allows you to cut through the stuff the MSM wants as a focus. At the same time, it appears that many black women sympathize with Serena.
Here are Osaka’s comments
https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/naomi-osaka-on-serena-williams-matc...
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 09/11/2018 - 10:00am
You remember when Ghouliani "offered" to stay on a few more months after 9/11 when Bloomberg was coming in? Or when Taylor was up on stage and Kanye hopped up with her? I think Osaka can handle it by herself, whatever someone else says. I know these Asian types seem shy and weak and need suppirt...
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 09/11/2018 - 11:16am
These Asian types are also black
From the HuffPost on whitewashing Osaka
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-whitewashing-of-naomi-osaka_us_5b967eb3e4b0cf7b004209b5
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 09/11/2018 - 12:14pm
My retort was sarcasm. Yes, she's black Haitian/Japanese mostly raised in the US from 3-years-old, so a New Yorker (?) as well, so I also laughed at the "first Japanese..." celebration, especially since with a black father she wasn't terribly welcome in Japan. Some white woman from the US press bowed to her earlier; she politely bowed back.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 09/11/2018 - 12:56pm