In news that shouldn't be too surprising if you've followed the empirical literature on this topic, moderate candidates tended to outperform the presidential ticket in House races this year.https://t.co/ElAESFJuaG
We looked at how presidential approval, presidential voting and the House popular vote were so tied together in 2018 and 2020. Biden has a 55 percent approval rating right now. Democrats probably need him to stay in that range to keep the House and Senate. https://t.co/GmistevRJ2
In election cycles since 1974, the party with the most Senate retirements has actually gained seats just as often as it has lost them. https://t.co/WifN8uEVdf
Does Joe Biden’s victory in 2020 represent the last gasp of an exhausted moderate tradition or does a potentially powerful center lie dormant in our embattled political system?
Morris Fiorina, a political scientist at Stanford, argues in a series of essays and a book, “Unstable Majorities,” that it is the structure of the two-party system that prevents the center — the moderate majority of American voters — from asserting their dominion over national politics:
Given multiple dimensions of political conflict — economic, cultural, international — it is simply impossible for two internally homogeneous parties to represent the variety of viewpoints present in a large heterogeneous democracy.
Inevitably, Fiorina writes,
Each party bundles issue positions in a way that conflicts with the views of many citizens — most commonly citizens who are economic conservatives and culturally liberal, or economically liberal and culturally conservative, but also internationalist or isolationist-leaning positions layered on top of other divisions.
Fiorina is addressing one of the most important questions in America today: Is there a viable center and can such a center be mobilized to enact widely backed legislative goals with bipartisan support?
This issue is the subject of intense dispute among strategists, scholars and pollsters.
In Fiorina’s view, polarization has been concentrated among “the political class: officeseekers, party officials, donors, activists, partisan media commentators. These are the people who blabber on TV /vent on Facebook/vilify on Twitter/etc.”
This process effectively leaves out “the general public (a.k.a. normal people)” who are “inattentive, uncertain, ambivalent, uninvolved politically, concerned with bread-and-butter issues.”
The first, “A Not So Divided America,” conducted by the Center on Policy Attitudes and the School of Public Policy at the University of Maryland for a centrist group, Voice of the People. It found that if you compare “the views of people who live in red Congressional districts or states to those of people who live in blue Congressional districts or states,” on “only 3.6 percent of the questions — 14 out of 388 — did a majority or plurality of those living in red congressional districts/states take a position opposed to that of a majority or plurality of those living in blue districts/states.”
Of those 14, according to the Voice of the People study, 11 concerned “ ‘hot-button’ topics that are famously controversial — gay and lesbian issues, abortion and Second Amendment issues relating to gun ownership.”
The second study, “Hidden Tribes,” was conducted for “More In Common,” another group that supports centrist policies.
1 year ago a president said, "hey, country, let's get aboard the Titanic -yes, that Titanic, T-i-t-a-n and the rest, but thisll be 2.0, even better, and take a ride around, gonna be great, and did I say church? Churchapalooza, never been an Easter like it, Jesus would be so jealous..." in the middle of a pandemic, and went on to gain what, 47% of the vote.
So much of this "middle" responds to babysit theology on God, guns and tax cuts, with a bit of meth-grade immigration paranoia to boot. (many Mexicans have decided immigrating into this shit hole country isn't worth it, so the brown scare is way down - Hispanic projections for 2050 dropping from 132 million to about 98m - guess a howling freak's cheaper than a Wall - maybe, if we look at the behind the scenes costs.)
Anyhow, even that Hillbilly Elegy guy has gone off the rails.
I'm beginning to think "targeting the Middle" presumes a level of control that doesn't exist. Just try to be same and hope for the best, while frantically getting out the vote.
[....] One of the many lessons of the recent presidential election campaign and its repugnant outcome is that the age of identity liberalism must be brought to an end. Hillary Clinton was at her best and most uplifting when she spoke about American interests in world affairs and how they relate to our understanding of democracy. But when it came to life at home, she tended on the campaign trail to lose that large vision and slip into the rhetoric of diversity, calling out explicitly to African-American, Latino, L.G.B.T. and women voters at every stop. This was a strategic mistake. If you are going to mention groups in America, you had better mention all of them. If you don’t, those left out will notice and feel excluded. Which, as the data show, was exactly what happened with the white working class and those with strong religious convictions. Fully two-thirds of white voters without college degrees voted for Donald Trump, as did over 80 percent of white evangelicals.
The moral energy surrounding identity has, of course, had many good effects. Affirmative action has reshaped and improved corporate life. Black Lives Matter has delivered a wake-up call to every American with a conscience. Hollywood’s efforts to normalize homosexuality in our popular culture helped to normalize it in American families and public life.
But the fixation on diversity in our schools and in the press has produced a generation of liberals and progressives narcissistically unaware of conditions outside their self-defined groups, and indifferent to the task of reaching out to Americans in every walk of life. At a very young age our children are being encouraged to talk about their individual identities, even before they have them. By the time they reach college many assume that diversity discourse exhausts political discourse, and have shockingly little to say about such perennial questions as class, war, the economy and the common good. In large part this is because of high school history curriculums, which anachronistically project the identity politics of today back onto the past, creating a distorted picture of the major forces and individuals that shaped our country. (The achievements of women’s rights movements, for instance, were real and important, but you cannot understand them if you do not first understand the founding fathers’ achievement in establishing a system of government based on the guarantee of rights.)
When young people arrive at college they are encouraged to keep this focus on themselves by student groups, faculty members and also administrators whose full-time job is to deal with — and heighten the significance of — “diversity issues.” Fox News and other conservative media outlets make great sport of mocking the “campus craziness” that surrounds such issues, and more often than not they are right to. Which only plays into the hands of populist demagogues who want to delegitimize learning in the eyes of those who have never set foot on a campus. How to explain to the average voter the supposed moral urgency of giving college students the right to choose the designated gender pronouns to be used when addressing them? How not to laugh along with those voters at the story of a University of Michigan prankster who wrote in “His Majesty”?
This campus-diversity consciousness has over the years filtered into the liberal media, and not subtly. Affirmative action for women and minorities at America’s newspapers and broadcasters has been an extraordinary social achievement — and has even changed, quite literally, the face of right-wing media, as journalists like Megyn Kelly and Laura Ingraham have gained prominence. But it also appears to have encouraged the assumption, especially among younger journalists and editors, that simply by focusing on identity they have done their jobs.
Recently I performed a little experiment during a sabbatical in France: For a full year I read only European publications, not American ones. My thought was to try seeing the world as European readers did. But it was far more instructive to return home and realize how the lens of identity has transformed American reporting in recent years [....]
Needless to say, Joe gets this--the main meme of his campaign basically being "we are all Americans", as does Jim Clyburn who basically anointed him at the primary stage.
And then there was that also that now famous Dem "family meeting" after losing seats in the House in 2020 election:
And guess what? Do it "Joe's way" (instead of Bernie bros identity-politics way) and suddenly Bernie has some of his wildest dreams happen shortly thereafter, including support from *gasp* registered Republicans of the type he always dreamed of convincing but never could because he hung with divisive identity politics types:
Uggh, maybe my Hillary knee jerk, but there's so much dishonesty. Firat, when Hillary tried to appeal to change for West Virginia in 2008, she got blasted for being racist, and when she proposed billions in Appalachian relief (a plan) in 2016, she got slammed for 1 word i think, while Trump's delusional "bring coal back" was praised.
More, America is "clumpy", not flat. For decades we've held our noses while politicians suck dick in Miami - very conservative anachronistic anti-Castro dick. The same might be said for Israel and our genuflections there. What proper pol will skip St Paddy's in Boston or a Polish march in Chicago. To some extent Chinatown & other SE Asian celebrations. Even gay pride fits this tradition. But turn your attention to a water problem in Flint that affects mostly blacks, publicly horrific police acts against blacks, structural economic and labor problems that need to be addressed, and suddenly "we're all equal, why focus on them"? Million Man March isn't a celebration, it's suddenly fear.
What about the women? Hillary launched the "a woman, just not that woman" meme, except all those terrible things she supposedly did were a pittance compared to the obscenities and illegalities of her male cohorts - from Trump to Matt Gaetz, from McConnell to Kevin McCarthy, from Roger Stone's Proud Boy's to Erik Prince's militias abroad, and Rudy Giuliani's frantic activities spanning the divide. We even got Bone Saw diplomacy. And as usual, women became the blind bimbo cheerleaders on Fox or the daily-now-weekly press dais (ok, Sarah Huckabee was a very brunette liar), or a very few gun-toting Sarah Palin types. Sure, #MeToo got exaggerated, but #MeNever has been tradition. Lost in this all was meritocracy - the idea that many women are more qualified than their male counterparts yet get passed over for the tall cleft-chin dude or just the guy they hit the bar with (while the woman takes home duty on top or professional obligations). A nation of equals? Marcy Wheeler did a great review of "Who Cooked Adam Smith's Dinner?", a book on the absence of free domestic labor by all housewives (working or not) in assessing our GDP and other vectors. But now we're back to SPACs and NFTs and other magical unicorns of our God-given capitalistic system, and pointing to glaring inequalities and *trying to fix them* is back out of fashion.
"Take A Knee" was the most peaceful but visible protest possible for what should have been a no-brainer: tossing a black guy unsecured into the back of a van to whipsaw him around until he died is immoral, is torture, is not what we even see with horrid white suspects. That doesn't mean black people don't commit more than their % of crimes, but the number of black professionals in *suits* attacked by security or police as 1st suspect in petty crimes, and the humiliating overly physical treatment for those petty crimes - is obscene. Yet we blew a chance for timely peaceful response towards a visible injustice, and sucked it into the "support the troops", "flag's all important" vortex. Often we're too dumb to chew gum, yet here we celebrate it - "Football? or humanity? Choose one". And so we got crappy BLM and other protests, with more finger pointing, along with the America right-or-wrong-but-here-mostly-wrong gun nuts and rightist warriors.
The NRA melted down & went bankrupt from it's corruption in 2016 (though *not* due to the fallout from hosting Russian spy/bimbo Martina Butina among our Republican elites, only because 1 crooked self-aggrandizing lobbyist outshone the other crooked self-aggrandizing lobbyists. Give him a Trump last name and all would've been forgiven.) But it's okay to shower attention on the grievances of the white-right anti-socialist Bundy's in demanding free government grazing lands, not ok to focus attention on the black and other minority children still getting sub-par education. Very selective optics in all this, but it's Hillary who's the divisive one for those radical phrases like "it takes a village to raise a child".
Joe's reaping the benefits of this shit storm. Finally learned to keep his awkward mouth shut, he's now the cool non-Trump non-Hillary (or any other woman) in the gang who largely exhorts the status quo plus some needed bailouts.
White male savior syndrome at it's best. But frankly, i can use a breather, so whatevs. Call me in 2 years.
The moral energy surrounding identity has, of course, had many good effects. Affirmative action has reshaped and improved corporate life. Black Lives Matter has delivered a wake-up call to every American with a conscience. Hollywood’s efforts to normalize homosexuality in our popular culture helped to normalize it in American families and public life.
Who's he kidding? These are *exactly* contentious issues that continue to divide America, not the Good Cop side of the Bad Cop poor messaging he claims. Homosexuality "normalized"? By Hollywood? Someone believes their own shit too much.
The right fought Obamacare - a carefully corporatist healthcare plan that would extend coverage to all while keeping the chokehold of insurance on healthcare. But even universal coverage is a problem if "the blacks" get it - poor whites in Bumfuck would rather do without than see them get it, or just can't figure out that "raising taxes" in your trailer existence isn't that big a deal when you pay next to nothing, vs what higher income folk could/should pay. Yes, there's too much pandering to the black base - it drowns much of the rest out - but the right drowns things out with killing the vote, whining about government, etc. even as they cherry pick whatever economic indicators to claim success with wildly distorted anecdotes and promises. They may accept it on TV, but not in real life. (Unless it's their own kid - we always manage an exception but not for others)
PS - i think the $15 minimum wage was horridly elite - anyone outside a coastal megalopolis would see this as a job killer - that a laundromat in Palookaville wouldn't be able to pay it's employees $15/hour and stay in business. But we created internecine warfare for no good purpose - recognize the problem, but fund a practical partway remedy that reeks of good sense, not another unreachable edict.
hah, you get angry at him for saying that but you don't get mad at Hillary for pandering to identity politics basically the same way but a lot more. He's just trying to throw a bone in their direction. But cutting it down to throwing a bone is not enough when you are running for president, I think you gotta cut more than that.
I agree with this part of his argument, that she did this
Hillary Clinton was at her best and most uplifting when she spoke about American interests in world affairs and how they relate to our understanding of democracy. But when it came to life at home, she tended on the campaign trail to lose that large vision and slip into the rhetoric of diversity, calling out explicitly to African-American, Latino, L.G.B.T. and women voters at every stop. This was a strategic mistake
Her husband didn't! He was brave and did a "Sister Souljah" moment so that he wouldn't be painted as a flaming identity politics liberal but as a moderate.
She got painted as a flaming identity politics liberal for eons, since she was just the wife of a governor. She let if happen, hung with the "It Takes a Village" crew and all the while as First Lady played the liberal conscience chiding hubby not to get too moderate.
And it's exactly as he says, once Secretary of State,she dropped that shtick and played Miz America.
Then going back to running for president, she tries to placate the lefty crew again while proclaiming being a moderate. No Sister Souljah moments.
Joe wouldn't go there, wouldn't pander, talked about unfairness but stayed on the unity message. I.E. when asked about defunding police, said: NO, they need MORE funding.
That's the way I saw it, if I saw it that way, surely people who fall for that stuff are going to buy it.
What I don't get is all your arguments about "but but but that's unfair she's really a moderate" go nowhere. Of course politics is unfair! Opponents will smear you unfairly. That's the way it works! I'd think: not the best candidate, I'll vote for her of course, but it would worry me, she doesn't seem able to handle the smearing. If she couldm't handle that while running, if she wins, how will she handle them doing it while she's president.
While campaigning, she just couldn't overcome on the domestic front decades of being painted a friendly to the identity politics crew and not fighting back strongly enough at that labeling which had stuck to her.
True that it wasn't a lot of voters where she couldn't change their minds but it was just enough of them in the right places. She just wasn't good enough at that.
Did she ever say "I will be president for all of you?" Huh? It's an easy thing to say, but a lot of Dem candidates won't go there.
Even the class-based attacks are dangerous. Liz Warren, for example, gets painted as being a commie for doing that and it sticks some, when smart people know she's actually a flaming moderate. Aspirational immigrants, for example, don't like constant attacks on the rich and successful and lauding of the "poor struggling lower classes", they want to be rich and don't want their president attacking them for it.
It is a known problem that identity politics causes for moderates when they are running a campaign. A catch-22. You got to finesse it. I think someone like Al Franken quit without a fight because he didn't want to have to finesse it. It's ugly but it just seems to be a reality of politics. When running for national office (not a gerrymandered district, that's different) you pander to ANY SPECIAL INTEREST group, including conservative ones or corporate ones and you piss a lot of people off. Identity politics IS special interest politics. You pander to the coalition fighting for benefits for the deaf, you piss off those fighting for the paralyzed. It's why Trump is no longer president, he pandered to his own special interest group.
1) a "first woman running for...", especially president, can't especially not pander to women.
I guess she could have been a stoic, saying, "oh, it doesn't matter".
(Obama did a good job of *not* saying it himself, but boy did everyone around him)
2) Pretty sure she *did* say, "I will be President for all of you", but if it didn't involve Whitewater or emails, did it even exist?
3) Was "It takes a Village" an identity thing, or just saying we need society, not just rugged individualism?
Guess too soon.
4) I think she had a genuine affinity for African-American women. Guess she shoulda thrown them under the bus - too anachronistic.
Anyway, I thought she was going for the big tent. It's not like she didn't win a majority - the media and the Bernie left just enjoyed tearing her apart along the way. Biden wouldve gotten the rage too had the pandemic & the Clyburn-led unity fix not intervened. During the pandemic Joe just had to sit home & not say anything. Anytime Hillary was out of the picture they'd have to make stuff up or just re-dredge some other pseudo-scandal.
Whatever. Biden got very lucky - it's dangerous to draw too many conclusions, even though I think he's taken his luck and not just sitting back, but managing the situation well so far. Happily for all of us.
Here's what I, as a feminist, see in all your arguments defending Hillary: very sweet, well-intentioned chivalry. Which is not the kind of support a real feminist should welcome. I for one don't buy the long lists you make defending Hillary because I see them as chivalrous attempts to defend someone who should be capable of defending herself and doing it the smart way. I see someone like Amy Klobuchar or Rep. Spanenberger and I see a woman who is capable of being both a feminist and a moderate all by herself without help from sympathetic men like Peracles Please.
"Defending her" is hardly my point.
Joe Biden did raise his 2 kids by himself for 4 years after his wife's death - on a decent salary, but still. But most professional women essentially raise their kids while holding down jobs, many (most say?) less-well paid, and aren't credited with being the hero that Joe is. I'm sure more than a few lost their husbands, and kids, but I don't recall a story that made the rounds like his.
Biden, Kerry, Edwards, Daschle - all Democratic stalwarts who voted for the Iraq AUMF, all pretty well untainted.
Kerry was Secretary of State for Obama's 2nd term - not a lot of taint on him for not ending Afghanistan, for continuing support of Syrian rebels, for not fixing Libya and leaving the chaos to reign.
Biden was VP for both Obama's terms - nothing about him being a warmonger, or people demanding to see his transcripts of talks to Connecticut insurance & credit card companies.
Some people were really thinking Michelle Obama should be President based on her being likable. Okay, maybe not that many, but it's out there - who knows. & frankly, she'd probably do a better job than Trump. But it's a weird call.
Now look at the grief female cabinet nominees get over the scads of jerk male nominees. Both politicized & gender skewed.
Hillary had Bill, whatever the other factors - she did come with protection, for whatever she earned.
Glimpse at Elaine Chao - competent, but nothing like the favors she got with Mitch.
Now think about what most female candidates go through - an Elizabeth Warren or whoever.
For some time they have it good - no one takes them seriously.
Then the weirdness starts.
Consider the female matchups in the last campaign - a "Course in Miracles" weirdo debating an expert on financial regulation? An 8-year Congresswoman whose career highlight was a few months in a nursing unit in Iraq & going rogue to visit the head of Syria vs. a stable 3rd term Senator? And in the end we got Clyburn's pick, a woman of color, as a backroom horse trade. Frankly I'm relieved it seems to have worked out so far, but it really really really seems sucky the way our messed up elections with messed up media go. The game is to survive the odd media fetishes and *still* somehow inspire people, rather than address any big issues. With Biden he was able to do "I've been around since the Great Flood, was a Senator before I rode training wheels, & you know what I'm about - and BTW my opponent is a criminal nutjob", and then back into the Covid lockdown house - which again was fitting for 2020, but I hope to never see it again.
Not to go there anymore, but Bill's consultation with black leaders to combat crime, his midnight basketball, his increase of blacks in gov positions, immigration,ending welfare as we know it, etc all might seem "pandering" as well. I just think it was more allowed to confront problems where they lay at that time, rather than by Obama's time it all had to be spread out equally, no favoritism of any sort. (Except pro low-tax Republicans and white gun-toting ranchers, but i get ahead of myself.) The Republicans it seems to me got us in this "liberals are always pandering" self restraint mode, while shamelessly pandering to their support groups.
But understanding Hispanics are largely conservative and out of reach in Florida, why have Dems pandered si poorly to Hispanics elsewhere? Perhaps thinking the only thing they care about is immigration? Even to bring Hillary back in, i thought she did a crappy job speaking to Hispanics from what started out as an aggrandized 50-state push. Was this concern pissing off the black base, just a lost in translation, too many other battle states to contend with, or what? But fight too many small battles, you lose the bigger picture - the Hispanic population has been growing and *needs* some attention, not just a "check, your in the big tent". People have specific needs. Defining them only on those needs is unhelpful, but ignoring key differences is also.
For women as a demographic, it's a bit tricky - they have standard issues from work equality, childbearing, usually being the caretaker for the elderly, safety, etc, but roughly half women are conservatives with many of the same fuck government, guns & self-sufficiency that feeds the Republicans. Proposing better healthcare might seem sensible, but it doesn't produce those automated results that were expected. "Healthcare for all" is oddly divisive, thanks in part to anti-socialist indoctrination plus the American people's innate orneriness, "don't tell me what to do" (flattered as "rugged individualism"). I remember my brother segued cleanly from a rant on how government can't do everything to being pissed they forgot to remind him his license had expired before a trip. Anonymous individualist in the collective, but want fawning special attention as well. It's a tough balance to maintain.
Krugman sounds awful optimistic that the Democrats under Biden are going to get a lot done and Republicans are in a hopeless state, that they haven't a clue how they are going to stop it
Why has opposition to Biden’s plans been so low energy?
March 25, 2021, 7:00 p.m. ET
The American Rescue Plan, President Biden’s $1.9 trillion relief effort, is law. But it’s only a short-term measure, mainly designed to deal with the Covid-19 pandemic and its immediate aftermath. The long-term stuff — which is expected to combine large-scale infrastructure spending with tax increases on the rich — is still being formulated. And everyone says that turning those longer-term plans into law will be much harder than passing the ARP.
But what if everyone is wrong?
Just about every analyst I follow asserted, almost until the last moment, that $1.9 trillion was an opening bid for the rescue plan and that the eventual bill would be substantially smaller. Instead, Democrats — who, by standard media convention, are always supposed to be in “disarray” — held together and did virtually everything they had promised. How did that happen?
Much of the post-stimulus commentary emphasizes the lessons Democrats learned from the Obama years, when softening policies in an attempt to win bipartisan support achieved nothing but a weaker-than-needed economic recovery. But my sense is that this is only part of the story. There has also been a change on the other side of the aisle: namely, Republicans have lost their knack for demonizing progressive policies.
Notice that I said “policies.” There’s certainly plenty of demonization out there: Vast numbers of Republican voters believe that Biden is president thanks only to invisible vote fraud, and some even buy the story that it was masterminded by a global conspiracy of pedophiles. But the G.O.P. has been spectacularly unsuccessful in convincing voters that they’ll be hurt by Biden’s spending and taxing plans.
In fact, polling on the rescue plan is so positive as to seem almost surreal for those of us who remember the policy debates of the Obama years: Something like three-quarters of voters, including a majority of Republicans, support the plan. For comparison, only a slight majority of voters supported President Barack Obama’s 2009 economic stimulus, even though Obama personally still had very high approval ratings.
Why the difference? Part of the answer, surely, is that this time around Republican politicians and pundits have been remarkably low energy in criticizing Biden’s policies. Where are the bloodcurdling warnings about runaway inflation and currency debasement, not to mention death panels? (Concerns about inflation, such as they are, seem to be mainly coming from some Democratic-leaning economists.)
True, every once in a while some G.O.P. legislator mumbles one of the usual catchphrases — “job-killing left-wing policies,” “budget-busting,” “socialism.” But there has been no concerted effort to get the message out. In fact, the partisan policy critique has been so muted that almost a third of the Republican rank and file believe that the party supports the plan, even though it didn’t receive a single Republican vote in Congress.
But why this somnolence? Republicans may realize that an attempt to revive Obama-era critiques would expose them to ridicule over their record of hypocrisy: After declaring deficits an existential threat under Obama, then dropping the issue the minute Donald Trump took office, it’s hard to pull off another 180-degree turn [....]
reading a second time, strikes me that this graph is key to his argument
Notice that I said “policies.” There’s certainly plenty of demonization out there: Vast numbers of Republican voters believe that Biden is president thanks only to invisible vote fraud, and some even buy the story that it was masterminded by a global conspiracy of pedophiles. But the G.O.P. has been spectacularly unsuccessful in convincing voters that they’ll be hurt by Biden’s spending and taxing plans.
This is exactly why Joe tries pretty strenuously to stay out of culture wars arguments. And it's becoming clear from his press secretary that doing that is going to be a key part of his governing style, she clearly won't go there if at all possible, won't do culture wars.
if Biden truly does manage to get "Infrastructure week" to be a real thing along the lines of "Build Back Better", it just hit me with this news item, there's gonna be real complicated "supply chain" issues to manage as well:
Lumber prices are so high that many builders are holding back on construction https://t.co/0l3DAs7NQe BusinessInsider
What's The Matter with The Woke? you ask? Thomas Frank answers: Liberals want to blame rightwing 'misinformation' for our problems. Get real
Thomas Frank warns Democrats about the folly of aligning with censorious scolds on the left as they abandon liberal ideals around free speech and expression:https://t.co/mdYlGVqRBj
It's easy to criticize the left for it's response to disinformation and hate on the internet. I've done it myself But if that's all you do, if you don't seriously look at the problem and come up with some alternative means to deal with it you're not advancing the discussion. The answer to bad free speech is more free speech has been proven to not be a workable response to what is a very real problem.
the 60 Minutes hit on DeSantis is a major fail - I have been to Publix quite a few times and agree with Barro's comment on that PLUS the other points made in exchange with Yglesias here finally totally make clear to me why my moderate bi-coastal brother vastly prefers DeSantis to Newsom (it's hard to get him to articulate on that, but he has expressed to me that he thinks pols like Newsom have ruined California "once a paradise") he's not a registered Republican but pretty much despises lefties and wasn't raised that way, that comes from life experience (mom was a bleeding heart liberal)
See also this. Unlike the other MAGA goons, DeSantis has a finely-tuned sense of how to triangulate to appeal simultaneously to GOP base voters and moderate voters. Beware. https://t.co/s1IcY9vRWy
Also, I think people don't get what a positive image Publix has with Florida consumers. The idea that distributing vaccine at Publix conjures up "sinister corporate coziness" won't survive contact with a Florida voter.
"beware" is a good warning. We read a lot of DeSantis bashing because he supported Trump, but that was not the whole story about him, lots of people in Florida are happy with him, it might surprise they think of him as a moderate
"[Justice Democrats] Spokesman Waleed Shahid said the group planned to endorse about the same number of candidates as the six it supported in 2020." https://t.co/z1O3PdDPis
Comments
by artappraiser on Tue, 03/23/2021 - 9:09pm
nice poll trend noted:
it may be temporary, but still nice: the uniters over the dividers
by artappraiser on Wed, 03/24/2021 - 1:25pm
Thomas B. Edsall: We See the Left. We See the Right. Can Anyone See the ‘Exhausted Majority’?
If it’s gone, the consequences are enormous
@ NYTimes.com, March 24
by artappraiser on Thu, 03/25/2021 - 12:38am
1 year ago a president said, "hey, country, let's get aboard the Titanic -yes, that Titanic, T-i-t-a-n and the rest, but thisll be 2.0, even better, and take a ride around, gonna be great, and did I say church? Churchapalooza, never been an Easter like it, Jesus would be so jealous..." in the middle of a pandemic, and went on to gain what, 47% of the vote.
So much of this "middle" responds to babysit theology on God, guns and tax cuts, with a bit of meth-grade immigration paranoia to boot. (many Mexicans have decided immigrating into this shit hole country isn't worth it, so the brown scare is way down - Hispanic projections for 2050 dropping from 132 million to about 98m - guess a howling freak's cheaper than a Wall - maybe, if we look at the behind the scenes costs.)
Anyhow, even that Hillbilly Elegy guy has gone off the rails.
I'm beginning to think "targeting the Middle" presumes a level of control that doesn't exist. Just try to be same and hope for the best, while frantically getting out the vote.
https://digbysblog.net/2021/03/american-crucifixion-2/
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 03/25/2021 - 2:07am
Just ran across this
Nov. 18, 2016 op-ed at NYTimes.com written a few weeks after Trump was elected
The End of Identity Liberalism
By Mark Lilla
Needless to say, Joe gets this--the main meme of his campaign basically being "we are all Americans", as does Jim Clyburn who basically anointed him at the primary stage.
And then there was that also that now famous Dem "family meeting" after losing seats in the House in 2020 election:
http://dagblog.com/link/democrats-post-election-family-meeting-descends-chaos-32924
And guess what? Do it "Joe's way" (instead of Bernie bros identity-politics way) and suddenly Bernie has some of his wildest dreams happen shortly thereafter, including support from *gasp* registered Republicans of the type he always dreamed of convincing but never could because he hung with divisive identity politics types:
by artappraiser on Thu, 03/25/2021 - 5:36pm
Uggh, maybe my Hillary knee jerk, but there's so much dishonesty. Firat, when Hillary tried to appeal to change for West Virginia in 2008, she got blasted for being racist, and when she proposed billions in Appalachian relief (a plan) in 2016, she got slammed for 1 word i think, while Trump's delusional "bring coal back" was praised.
More, America is "clumpy", not flat. For decades we've held our noses while politicians suck dick in Miami - very conservative anachronistic anti-Castro dick. The same might be said for Israel and our genuflections there. What proper pol will skip St Paddy's in Boston or a Polish march in Chicago. To some extent Chinatown & other SE Asian celebrations. Even gay pride fits this tradition. But turn your attention to a water problem in Flint that affects mostly blacks, publicly horrific police acts against blacks, structural economic and labor problems that need to be addressed, and suddenly "we're all equal, why focus on them"? Million Man March isn't a celebration, it's suddenly fear.
What about the women? Hillary launched the "a woman, just not that woman" meme, except all those terrible things she supposedly did were a pittance compared to the obscenities and illegalities of her male cohorts - from Trump to Matt Gaetz, from McConnell to Kevin McCarthy, from Roger Stone's Proud Boy's to Erik Prince's militias abroad, and Rudy Giuliani's frantic activities spanning the divide. We even got Bone Saw diplomacy. And as usual, women became the blind bimbo cheerleaders on Fox or the daily-now-weekly press dais (ok, Sarah Huckabee was a very brunette liar), or a very few gun-toting Sarah Palin types. Sure, #MeToo got exaggerated, but #MeNever has been tradition. Lost in this all was meritocracy - the idea that many women are more qualified than their male counterparts yet get passed over for the tall cleft-chin dude or just the guy they hit the bar with (while the woman takes home duty on top or professional obligations). A nation of equals? Marcy Wheeler did a great review of "Who Cooked Adam Smith's Dinner?", a book on the absence of free domestic labor by all housewives (working or not) in assessing our GDP and other vectors. But now we're back to SPACs and NFTs and other magical unicorns of our God-given capitalistic system, and pointing to glaring inequalities and *trying to fix them* is back out of fashion.
"Take A Knee" was the most peaceful but visible protest possible for what should have been a no-brainer: tossing a black guy unsecured into the back of a van to whipsaw him around until he died is immoral, is torture, is not what we even see with horrid white suspects. That doesn't mean black people don't commit more than their % of crimes, but the number of black professionals in *suits* attacked by security or police as 1st suspect in petty crimes, and the humiliating overly physical treatment for those petty crimes - is obscene. Yet we blew a chance for timely peaceful response towards a visible injustice, and sucked it into the "support the troops", "flag's all important" vortex. Often we're too dumb to chew gum, yet here we celebrate it - "Football? or humanity? Choose one". And so we got crappy BLM and other protests, with more finger pointing, along with the America right-or-wrong-but-here-mostly-wrong gun nuts and rightist warriors.
The NRA melted down & went bankrupt from it's corruption in 2016 (though *not* due to the fallout from hosting Russian spy/bimbo Martina Butina among our Republican elites, only because 1 crooked self-aggrandizing lobbyist outshone the other crooked self-aggrandizing lobbyists. Give him a Trump last name and all would've been forgiven.) But it's okay to shower attention on the grievances of the white-right anti-socialist Bundy's in demanding free government grazing lands, not ok to focus attention on the black and other minority children still getting sub-par education. Very selective optics in all this, but it's Hillary who's the divisive one for those radical phrases like "it takes a village to raise a child".
Joe's reaping the benefits of this shit storm. Finally learned to keep his awkward mouth shut, he's now the cool non-Trump non-Hillary (or any other woman) in the gang who largely exhorts the status quo plus some needed bailouts.
White male savior syndrome at it's best. But frankly, i can use a breather, so whatevs. Call me in 2 years.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 03/26/2021 - 3:23am
Odd paragraph
Who's he kidding? These are *exactly* contentious issues that continue to divide America, not the Good Cop side of the Bad Cop poor messaging he claims. Homosexuality "normalized"? By Hollywood? Someone believes their own shit too much.
The right fought Obamacare - a carefully corporatist healthcare plan that would extend coverage to all while keeping the chokehold of insurance on healthcare. But even universal coverage is a problem if "the blacks" get it - poor whites in Bumfuck would rather do without than see them get it, or just can't figure out that "raising taxes" in your trailer existence isn't that big a deal when you pay next to nothing, vs what higher income folk could/should pay. Yes, there's too much pandering to the black base - it drowns much of the rest out - but the right drowns things out with killing the vote, whining about government, etc. even as they cherry pick whatever economic indicators to claim success with wildly distorted anecdotes and promises. They may accept it on TV, but not in real life. (Unless it's their own kid - we always manage an exception but not for others)
PS - i think the $15 minimum wage was horridly elite - anyone outside a coastal megalopolis would see this as a job killer - that a laundromat in Palookaville wouldn't be able to pay it's employees $15/hour and stay in business. But we created internecine warfare for no good purpose - recognize the problem, but fund a practical partway remedy that reeks of good sense, not another unreachable edict.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 03/26/2021 - 4:14am
hah, you get angry at him for saying that but you don't get mad at Hillary for pandering to identity politics basically the same way but a lot more. He's just trying to throw a bone in their direction. But cutting it down to throwing a bone is not enough when you are running for president, I think you gotta cut more than that.
I agree with this part of his argument, that she did this
Her husband didn't! He was brave and did a "Sister Souljah" moment so that he wouldn't be painted as a flaming identity politics liberal but as a moderate.
She got painted as a flaming identity politics liberal for eons, since she was just the wife of a governor. She let if happen, hung with the "It Takes a Village" crew and all the while as First Lady played the liberal conscience chiding hubby not to get too moderate.
And it's exactly as he says, once Secretary of State,she dropped that shtick and played Miz America.
Then going back to running for president, she tries to placate the lefty crew again while proclaiming being a moderate. No Sister Souljah moments.
Joe wouldn't go there, wouldn't pander, talked about unfairness but stayed on the unity message. I.E. when asked about defunding police, said: NO, they need MORE funding.
That's the way I saw it, if I saw it that way, surely people who fall for that stuff are going to buy it.
What I don't get is all your arguments about "but but but that's unfair she's really a moderate" go nowhere. Of course politics is unfair! Opponents will smear you unfairly. That's the way it works! I'd think: not the best candidate, I'll vote for her of course, but it would worry me, she doesn't seem able to handle the smearing. If she couldm't handle that while running, if she wins, how will she handle them doing it while she's president.
While campaigning, she just couldn't overcome on the domestic front decades of being painted a friendly to the identity politics crew and not fighting back strongly enough at that labeling which had stuck to her.
True that it wasn't a lot of voters where she couldn't change their minds but it was just enough of them in the right places. She just wasn't good enough at that.
Did she ever say "I will be president for all of you?" Huh? It's an easy thing to say, but a lot of Dem candidates won't go there.
Even the class-based attacks are dangerous. Liz Warren, for example, gets painted as being a commie for doing that and it sticks some, when smart people know she's actually a flaming moderate. Aspirational immigrants, for example, don't like constant attacks on the rich and successful and lauding of the "poor struggling lower classes", they want to be rich and don't want their president attacking them for it.
It is a known problem that identity politics causes for moderates when they are running a campaign. A catch-22. You got to finesse it. I think someone like Al Franken quit without a fight because he didn't want to have to finesse it. It's ugly but it just seems to be a reality of politics. When running for national office (not a gerrymandered district, that's different) you pander to ANY SPECIAL INTEREST group, including conservative ones or corporate ones and you piss a lot of people off. Identity politics IS special interest politics. You pander to the coalition fighting for benefits for the deaf, you piss off those fighting for the paralyzed. It's why Trump is no longer president, he pandered to his own special interest group.
by artappraiser on Fri, 03/26/2021 - 12:31pm
1) a "first woman running for...", especially president, can't especially not pander to women.
I guess she could have been a stoic, saying, "oh, it doesn't matter".
(Obama did a good job of *not* saying it himself, but boy did everyone around him)
2) Pretty sure she *did* say, "I will be President for all of you", but if it didn't involve Whitewater or emails, did it even exist?
3) Was "It takes a Village" an identity thing, or just saying we need society, not just rugged individualism?
Guess too soon.
4) I think she had a genuine affinity for African-American women. Guess she shoulda thrown them under the bus - too anachronistic.
Anyway, I thought she was going for the big tent. It's not like she didn't win a majority - the media and the Bernie left just enjoyed tearing her apart along the way. Biden wouldve gotten the rage too had the pandemic & the Clyburn-led unity fix not intervened. During the pandemic Joe just had to sit home & not say anything. Anytime Hillary was out of the picture they'd have to make stuff up or just re-dredge some other pseudo-scandal.
Whatever. Biden got very lucky - it's dangerous to draw too many conclusions, even though I think he's taken his luck and not just sitting back, but managing the situation well so far. Happily for all of us.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 03/26/2021 - 1:59pm
Here's what I, as a feminist, see in all your arguments defending Hillary: very sweet, well-intentioned chivalry. Which is not the kind of support a real feminist should welcome. I for one don't buy the long lists you make defending Hillary because I see them as chivalrous attempts to defend someone who should be capable of defending herself and doing it the smart way. I see someone like Amy Klobuchar or Rep. Spanenberger and I see a woman who is capable of being both a feminist and a moderate all by herself without help from sympathetic men like Peracles Please.
by artappraiser on Fri, 03/26/2021 - 2:51pm
"Defending her" is hardly my point.
Joe Biden did raise his 2 kids by himself for 4 years after his wife's death - on a decent salary, but still. But most professional women essentially raise their kids while holding down jobs, many (most say?) less-well paid, and aren't credited with being the hero that Joe is. I'm sure more than a few lost their husbands, and kids, but I don't recall a story that made the rounds like his.
Biden, Kerry, Edwards, Daschle - all Democratic stalwarts who voted for the Iraq AUMF, all pretty well untainted.
Kerry was Secretary of State for Obama's 2nd term - not a lot of taint on him for not ending Afghanistan, for continuing support of Syrian rebels, for not fixing Libya and leaving the chaos to reign.
Biden was VP for both Obama's terms - nothing about him being a warmonger, or people demanding to see his transcripts of talks to Connecticut insurance & credit card companies.
Some people were really thinking Michelle Obama should be President based on her being likable. Okay, maybe not that many, but it's out there - who knows. & frankly, she'd probably do a better job than Trump. But it's a weird call.
Now look at the grief female cabinet nominees get over the scads of jerk male nominees. Both politicized & gender skewed.
Hillary had Bill, whatever the other factors - she did come with protection, for whatever she earned.
Glimpse at Elaine Chao - competent, but nothing like the favors she got with Mitch.
Now think about what most female candidates go through - an Elizabeth Warren or whoever.
For some time they have it good - no one takes them seriously.
Then the weirdness starts.
Consider the female matchups in the last campaign - a "Course in Miracles" weirdo debating an expert on financial regulation? An 8-year Congresswoman whose career highlight was a few months in a nursing unit in Iraq & going rogue to visit the head of Syria vs. a stable 3rd term Senator? And in the end we got Clyburn's pick, a woman of color, as a backroom horse trade. Frankly I'm relieved it seems to have worked out so far, but it really really really seems sucky the way our messed up elections with messed up media go. The game is to survive the odd media fetishes and *still* somehow inspire people, rather than address any big issues. With Biden he was able to do "I've been around since the Great Flood, was a Senator before I rode training wheels, & you know what I'm about - and BTW my opponent is a criminal nutjob", and then back into the Covid lockdown house - which again was fitting for 2020, but I hope to never see it again.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 03/26/2021 - 3:17pm
Not to go there anymore, but Bill's consultation with black leaders to combat crime, his midnight basketball, his increase of blacks in gov positions, immigration,ending welfare as we know it, etc all might seem "pandering" as well. I just think it was more allowed to confront problems where they lay at that time, rather than by Obama's time it all had to be spread out equally, no favoritism of any sort. (Except pro low-tax Republicans and white gun-toting ranchers, but i get ahead of myself.) The Republicans it seems to me got us in this "liberals are always pandering" self restraint mode, while shamelessly pandering to their support groups.
But understanding Hispanics are largely conservative and out of reach in Florida, why have Dems pandered si poorly to Hispanics elsewhere? Perhaps thinking the only thing they care about is immigration? Even to bring Hillary back in, i thought she did a crappy job speaking to Hispanics from what started out as an aggrandized 50-state push. Was this concern pissing off the black base, just a lost in translation, too many other battle states to contend with, or what? But fight too many small battles, you lose the bigger picture - the Hispanic population has been growing and *needs* some attention, not just a "check, your in the big tent". People have specific needs. Defining them only on those needs is unhelpful, but ignoring key differences is also.
For women as a demographic, it's a bit tricky - they have standard issues from work equality, childbearing, usually being the caretaker for the elderly, safety, etc, but roughly half women are conservatives with many of the same fuck government, guns & self-sufficiency that feeds the Republicans. Proposing better healthcare might seem sensible, but it doesn't produce those automated results that were expected. "Healthcare for all" is oddly divisive, thanks in part to anti-socialist indoctrination plus the American people's innate orneriness, "don't tell me what to do" (flattered as "rugged individualism"). I remember my brother segued cleanly from a rant on how government can't do everything to being pissed they forgot to remind him his license had expired before a trip. Anonymous individualist in the collective, but want fawning special attention as well. It's a tough balance to maintain.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 03/27/2021 - 2:27am
Krugman sounds awful optimistic that the Democrats under Biden are going to get a lot done and Republicans are in a hopeless state, that they haven't a clue how they are going to stop it
The Decline of Republican Demonization
Why has opposition to Biden’s plans been so low energy?
by artappraiser on Fri, 03/26/2021 - 11:55am
reading a second time, strikes me that this graph is key to his argument
This is exactly why Joe tries pretty strenuously to stay out of culture wars arguments. And it's becoming clear from his press secretary that doing that is going to be a key part of his governing style, she clearly won't go there if at all possible, won't do culture wars.
by artappraiser on Fri, 03/26/2021 - 12:38pm
if Biden truly does manage to get "Infrastructure week" to be a real thing along the lines of "Build Back Better", it just hit me with this news item, there's gonna be real complicated "supply chain" issues to manage as well:
talk about interest groups, there are all kinds of them...
by artappraiser on Fri, 03/26/2021 - 2:40pm
What's The Matter with The Woke? you ask? Thomas Frank answers: Liberals want to blame rightwing 'misinformation' for our problems. Get real
by artappraiser on Wed, 03/31/2021 - 7:38pm
It's easy to criticize the left for it's response to disinformation and hate on the internet. I've done it myself But if that's all you do, if you don't seriously look at the problem and come up with some alternative means to deal with it you're not advancing the discussion. The answer to bad free speech is more free speech has been proven to not be a workable response to what is a very real problem.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 04/04/2021 - 5:00pm
by artappraiser on Sun, 04/04/2021 - 3:35pm
the 60 Minutes hit on DeSantis is a major fail - I have been to Publix quite a few times and agree with Barro's comment on that PLUS the other points made in exchange with Yglesias here finally totally make clear to me why my moderate bi-coastal brother vastly prefers DeSantis to Newsom (it's hard to get him to articulate on that, but he has expressed to me that he thinks pols like Newsom have ruined California "once a paradise") he's not a registered Republican but pretty much despises lefties and wasn't raised that way, that comes from life experience (mom was a bleeding heart liberal)
"beware" is a good warning. We read a lot of DeSantis bashing because he supported Trump, but that was not the whole story about him, lots of people in Florida are happy with him, it might surprise they think of him as a moderate
by artappraiser on Mon, 04/05/2021 - 8:38pm
by artappraiser on Tue, 04/06/2021 - 11:44am
by artappraiser on Thu, 04/08/2021 - 3:45pm