Orion's picture

    SSRIs, Once Again

    I'm going to start off with an old example from back in 2001: 

    MATTAWA, Wash. (AP) _ Apple orchards are blossoming just down the road. But there is one student in Michelle Hansen’s honors English class who is not there to see it.

    Cory Baadsgaard is, instead, in the county jail, writing letters of apology to classmates he has known since kindergarten _ the same ones he forced into a classroom corner using a loaded big-game hunting rifle and swear words many had never heard him use before.

    ``It’s hard to write when you’re shaking and crying,″ the 16-year-old said in a letter that his friend, Clint Price, read to the class soon after the April 10 standoff.

    And school officials have since discovered that in the days before he brought the gun to school, he was having trouble adjusting to a new anti-depressant medication.

    Any number of factors could have prompted Baadsgaard to sneak through one of the school’s side doors with the rifle and burst into his classroom.

    Now, of course, the gun element cannot be discounted. We did not have assault weapons available a generation ago, and we also did not have psychotropic drugs being distributed routinely. Both are true at once.

    It continues with Adam Lanza.

    I want to say that the notion that antidepressants can cause this does not mean that psychiatric illness is not real. However, you're seeing this identical sort of extreme behavior in various people that was very unusual until very recently.

    Comments

    What is the reason people are taking SSRI's in the first place? (psst, answer tip - many are very depressed, suicidal level)

    Basically you are saying if you were able to get rid of SSRI's, many would be hunky dory and not seek out guns?

    So if say, Adam Lanza was not taking SSRI's, he would be like any normal young man, not sitting in a blacked out room and collecting guns. Sheesh, if only his parents knew it was that simple, betcha they would have confiscated any SSRI's in a NY minute!

    (I think: what if they confiscated his guns? That makes more sense to me. And let the psychiatric people experiment with the drugs that might help him in the meantime. Knowing in advance that some may temporarily make him worse. Just sayin')

    Should the depressed and otherwise mentally ill self-medicate with opiates instead? Alcohol? Psychedelics? Would that help the gun and violence situation?


    It's important to look at what an SSRI does. It blocks serotonin much like cocaine and produces similar effects. It's basically a placebo with side effects when it comes to depression and is used in various situations that have nothing to do with depression, with doctors opting that it's a good idea based on whether the patient says they're feeling better or not or a desired good outcome is achieved, regardless of side effect. There's nothing particularly advanced about it - it's just the same sort of stuff that gets people wired up and ready to break stuff the whole world around, dressed up as something else in America and given out along with whatever gun you want to buy. 

    In Australia, they don't give these drugs to anyone below 18 and you certainly can't get a gun in that age range either.

    Ultimately tho, this country won't do either and we will be having this discussion again in 10 years.


    There are age restrictions on alcohol, opiates and psychedelics are a different story, so I don't see why an age limit on SSRIs is problematic when they seem to be a big problem for younger people.


    Don't you have a thread over to the right for [Antidepressants]?


    Offer: We could change the topic to the danger of statins! Over the years I've collected a boatload of both anecdotals and medical studies on the terrible things they can do, especially to men. Of course, they can save lives too. But everyone shouldn't take them.


    Nights imbibe statins, statin highland varies, my brain is feverishly trying to make something click... "Statin on the corner, suitcase in her hand..."


    Your equation of the two things still strikes me as ridiculous.

    For just this one thing alone - I am positive there are not 120 SSRI users per 100 people in this country

    More guns than people. pic.twitter.com/I3MEIy0yVa

    — Barb McQuade (@BarbMcQuade) May 25, 2022

    I am also pretty damn sure that if Australia enacted protections concerning SSRI's for under 18, it was to protect possible distortion of still-developing brains, rather than any connection to actual acted out violence. Look Andrew Sullivan took testosterone (& still takes it?) for AIDS muscle wasting and admits it made him more aggressive and violent but he didn't actually act on those feelings! Same for tons of guys using steroids for sports. People still know right from wrong even when they are under the influence of drugs making them more aggressive and anger prone.

    IF TRUE, it would be an infitesimal percentage of the problem, like 0.01% of the problem of the rise in violent crime SINCE 2020.. Are you trying to tell us that everyone taking SSRI'S started to get violent in 2020 for some reason. It strikes as addled, confused, irrational and possibly under the influence of some drug to think SSRI's by under 18 year olds are the problem here! Were 1 or 2 or 3 nut cases involved with gun violence  taking SSRI'S when executing the violence? Undoubtedly! (with the major cavaet that nobody in the #ghetto or in rap or gang world, where much gun and other violence occurs would take that emasculating shit prescribed by a white doctor) Would those few nuts on SSRI's still do the same if they weren't on them? Probably! Because they are not just on another drug that would make them more susceptible to act on emotions (LIKE ALCOHOL HAS LONG BEEN KNOWN TO BE,) they are: mentally ill even without any drugs at all!

    There so many other reasons to see what you say as a logical fallacy of giant proportions. It's like you are obsessed by a single flea on another floor when there's an elephant right next to you in the room.


    There's certainly substances that mess with serotonin going around in rap circles. :P some rappers even made it to the big time selling them. https://nida.nih.gov/news-events/nida-notes/2019/02/disruption-serotonin...

    In a lot of rap lyrics, you will hear interchangeably lyrics about slinging crack right there with shooting people. They'll talk about Glocks and Smith and Wessons just as they talk about doing lines and selling bricks almost as if the two are connected. Makes you wonder.

     

     

    Also there may be a reason that prescriptions for SSRIs may have gone up in 2020. They are the ultimate placebo with side effects and doctors may dole them out for whatever is at hand: https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/ssris-are-associated-with-a-decreased...

    I would say that the fact that Australia regulated these substances just as it did guns demonstrates that it's not either/or or zero sum and the leadership there may understand things for real, as opposed to letting their tribalism obscure half of the picture.

    America is an outlier both on firearms and on pharmaceuticals - it allowed advertising of drugs just as it allowed for sale and distribution of assault weapons. It allows for weapons of war to be distributed as sporting rifles and allows drugs with the same basic effect on the brain as common street drugs to be distributed as "antidepressants." A healthy society would have blocked both but we are not a healthy society.

    The news is now saying that Nancy Pelosi is moving forward with a ban on assault weapons. I say that it would also be a great idea to bring back the ban on pharmaceutical advertising. Just like an assault weapons ban wouldn't completely reduce gun violence, banning pharma ads wouldn't end destructive practices but they would really limit them and discourage doctors from prescribing unnecessarily.


    I am also pretty damn sure that if Australia enacted protections concerning SSRI's for under 18, it was to protect possible distortion of still-developing brains, rather than any connection to actual acted out violence.

    Makes sense. The ultimate problem in the US is they are giving them to children. They're not an issue for older people.


    I find it hard to believe any of the homies involved here are taking SSRI's, or any prescription drugs for that matter (maybe they could use some.)

    WANTED for ROBBERY: On 5/31/22 at 1:40 PM, inside of 777 6th Avenue in Manhattan, this man removed $1,745 worth of merchandise & struck a 42-year-old man & a 60-year-old woman with a bike chain before fleeing on foot. If you have any info, contact @NYPDTips at 800-577-TIPS. pic.twitter.com/Hm4GMS7szD

    — NYPD NEWS (@NYPDnews) June 2, 2022

    Our @NYPDTransit cops recently arrested a career criminal for violating the transit rules & regulations inside the subway while also carrying these weapons. The man was also previously convicted for attempted murder. Our officers are committed to keeping the subways safe for all. pic.twitter.com/hTRhQssg63

    — NYPD NEWS (@NYPDnews) June 2, 2022


    WANTED for RAPE! On Tues 5/31 @ 9AM in the vicinity of Beech Terrace @ St. Marys Park a 38 yr old female was forced @ knife point from her home to the park, raped & robbed! Take a look @ this pic, we need your help! Any info call 800-577-8477 (TIPS) pic.twitter.com/8ZKZYD3Hsm

    — NYPD 40th Precinct (@NYPD40Pct) June 1, 2022

    UPDATE: The suspect in this case has been identified as Osie Lewis.

    Have you seen him?

    DM @NYPDTips or anonymously call 800-577-TIPS with information. https://t.co/EqMDxs10Vk pic.twitter.com/j78xEIBxYw

    — NYPD NEWS (@NYPDnews) June 1, 2022

    While conducting quality of life conditions, your Neighborhood Safety Team, Public Safety Team, and NCO's arrested an individual illegally carrying this loaded gun. The individual has a history of prior gun arrests.@NYPDBklynSouth @NYPDChiefOfDept @NYPDChiefPatrol pic.twitter.com/Za7Cmu9h28

    — NYPD 67th Precinct (@NYPD67Pct) May 30, 2022

    WANTED for HOMICIDE: Do you know this guy? On 5/25/22 at approx. 6:53 PM, outside of 822 Clarkson Ave in Brooklyn, a 22-year-old male was shot in the stomach and a 38-year-old male was shot multiple times, causing his death. Any info? DM @NYPDTips, or call 800-577-TIPS. pic.twitter.com/SkC50xMo1p

    — NYPD NEWS (@NYPDnews) May 31, 2022

    What does Neighborhood Safety look like? Less illegally possessed guns on the street is a great place to start!

    Great arrest yesterday by your Neighborhood Safety Team Officers Brown & Einhorn & SGT Cruz. This Ghost Gun- loaded and illegally possessed, is no longer on the street pic.twitter.com/CfDjvCbEgZ

    — NYPD 46th Precinct (@NYPD46Pct) May 30, 2022

    Protecting NYC is a shared responsibility! Recently, a concerned NY reported a man playing with a firearm in Bklyn. Thanks to the tipster & the swift response by Officers Toba & Nasroodin from the @NYPD81Pct, they were able to arrest 3 individuals & recover these 2 loaded guns. pic.twitter.com/mnJ6MKrt6d

    — NYPD NEWS (@NYPDnews) May 29, 2022

    Not on our watch!

    Three wannabe cat-burglars were nabbed this weekend by Neighborhood Coordination Officers Maxwell and Gonzalez in a building on Undercliff Avenue. This loaded, illegally possessed firearm and stolen jewelry were safely recovered.

    Outstanding police work! pic.twitter.com/SPniPyfuZE

    — NYPD 46th Precinct (@NYPD46Pct) May 29, 2022

    NYC: On 5/26 at 1:50 pm, near 3 Avenue & E 63 Street in Manhattan, a 29-year-old male was walking when he was slashed multiple times in the back and arm by an unknown individual. If you have any information on the incident or suspect, contact @NYPDTips at 800-577-TIPS. pic.twitter.com/X02VYeGpbZ

    — NYPD NEWS (@NYPDnews) May 28, 2022

    Right place, right time.

    Recently, officers from the @NYPD43Pct spotted a man who fit the description of a suspect connected to a crime. After a brief chase, officers arrested the suspect & recovered this loaded firearm that was thrown to the ground during the foot pursuit. pic.twitter.com/0etCbZmwJD

    — NYPD NEWS (@NYPDnews) May 27, 2022

    WANTED for a CITYWIDE ROBBERY PATTERN: Recognize him? Between 5/19/22 to 5/24/2022 the suspect committed four robberies in the Bronx, Queens & Brooklyn by robbing the victims at gunpoint & removing their cash. Have any info? DM @NYPDTips, or call them at 800-577-TIPS. pic.twitter.com/UeyLlTx27m

    — NYPD NEWS (@NYPDnews) May 27, 2022

    WANTED for RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT: On 5/22 at 2:30 am, in front of 134-22 222 Street in Queens, two groups were involved in a verbal dispute when one individual discharged a firearm multiple times. No injuries were reported. If you have info, contact @NYPDTips at 800-577-TIPS. pic.twitter.com/cZzdmLGPSE

    — NYPD NEWS (@NYPDnews) May 27, 2022


    Could easily be smoking crack. 

    It's not news that messing with serotonin will get people ready for aggression. Just watch Scarface. Antidepressants just made it marketable, and AR-15s made the tools available.


     

    Tech investor and Arizona Senate hopeful Blake Masters blames gun violence on “Black people, frankly” https://t.co/0FBw02mJJx

    — The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) June 6, 2022

     


    nothing on SSRI's here, but encouraging talk about getting race off the table, including talking about those losing sons in affluent Silicon valley and in Appalachia to violence including suicide, bullying is a originator as is violence itself....

     


    There's been something really unfortunate going on with men for a long time, worldwide.


    What's that supposed to mean?


    I mean, it's overwhelmingly men who are waving guns around, isn't it? At some point something failed for them.


    Look at this dude's eyes and tell me he's not on drugs: https://youtu.be/JRf2ub2E7_o


    you should go argue with Laura, she thinks marijuana is the culprit:

    Ingraham insisted authorities should focus on what she called “the pot-psychosis–violent-behavior connection,” not guns. https://t.co/yshFogFjuF

    — VANITY FAIR (@VanityFair) June 3, 2022

    (again, same with your suggestion, a lot more people started smoking it in 2020, before that, not so much?)


    People are more likely to fight over marijuana than because of it, but she might actually get an audience with Joe Biden. :P



    I worked at a rap magazine as a teenager. I had a buddy who was in agreement that coke and SSRIs both target the same parts of the system. One is a "disruptor." The other is an "inhibitor."

    More on that subject: https://nida.nih.gov/news-events/​nida-notes/2019/02/disruption-serotonin-contributes-to-cocaines-effects#:~:text=Cocaine%20blocks%20the%20serotonin%20transporter,the%20motor%20cortex%20is%20increased

    And I think the cocaine trade is almost the reason rap music even exists, like going back to the beginning. That would explain why it was all about partying hard in the 1980s and all about being an outlaw "gangsta" in the 1990s.

     

     

    The medical industry's only genius is in marketing. Most of its drugs are just repackaged placebos, sleep aides or street drugs - and the industry just assumes if they give the drugs fancy packaging and a serious name, people will think they discovered something new and innovative.


    Whaddabout the 70s? GFlash & Blondie, early stuff. All Studio 54 takes the wrong exit to Brooklyn, how Andy Warhol celebs became Richard Pryor on fire.


    Various accounts demonstrate that 2020 led to an explosion of diagnosis for depression and anxiety, along with the prescription of serotonin blocking drugs to treat both those and Covid-19 itself, apparently. I imagine that quite a bit of crack and cocaine got distributed on the street for various street elements who found an already hard life suddenly a whole lot harder.


    There's some Rome burning stuff going on here as well.


    It's possibly SSRIs and then it's also possible that these are men that don't know what to do with themselves and figure being warehoused will make more sense. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/nicholas-roske-brett-kavanaugh-supreme-court-b2097470.html


    video just screams he's on SSRI's not

    he's acclimated himself to think of other human beings being in the way of what number one wants

    there are lots of people like that out on the streets right now and drugs are not causing it


    another opinion from Elon Musk:

    (Escitalopram is an SSRI)

    the thread continues...


    A thread highly supportive of researching your own situation (and excellent, mho) when you are taking SSRi's and similar or have anything going on affecting serotonin lelves I'm starting in the middle where she gets to her point. You might want to go to thread and read the intro explanation in the beginning about how many people have fucked up serotonin levels

     


    end tweets

    Mho, she is 100% correct that most medical professionals do not know how to (or don't care to try) balance hormones and body chemicals, especially because EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT, WE'RE NOT ROBOTS. If you're lucky and get one that will work with you, and those type are rare, you can get assistance and tips and work as a team. The easy alternative which many practioners do, is ONE DRUG AT A TIME. (And if you have a lot of complex problems, that could take years or decades, you may be dead before you feel better). There is no better solution than an educated patient working with a doctor as a team, and once again, those are rare. (She just happened to have the clonopin already, if she had to wait for a doctor to try it, it could take years.) Truth is all their tests tell them very little, they can only fix a few maladies, like diabetes and heart disease, and don't even know things like what levels some hormones and chemicals should be. Even the best scans don't tell them what your insides really look like unti they cut you open, and any honest surgeon will admit that! We are all guinea pigs and it's all trial and error, that's what "modern" medicine is, and only you, the patient know how you feel.



    Psychopharmacology can help some people, go figure. Thread:


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