This is the end for you guys. Firing someone for allowing different opinions in your paper means you are no longer a real news paper. It’s been fun. You had a good run. The best in fact. R.I.P. https://t.co/yAcXpXKyFL
Lost a good righteous rant, but yes, Sean, editors are supposed to block or provide context with loony tunes
opinions. Opinons are like assholes - everyone has one, but some don't wipe. Cotton supported
Trump's "let's buy Greenland" nonsense, and now he's supporting a collaborative anti-Antifa effort tied
to Barr's pulling together unmarked renegade security instead of just supporting states & cities calling
for any backup needed from state National Guard units - not these ragtag wannabe soldiers that fire
teargas unprovoked on civilians and then say they didn't even fire.
ANyway, NY Times isn't supposed to be serving up disinformation like coffee. Want a balanced opinion?
back it with facts, real polls, countervailing opinion - not just Ivanka & Jared stoking their private business.
The Old Grey Lady isn't a madam for a whorehouse. Yeah, most registered voters probably want law & order,
and most probably want us to learn something from George Lloyd's death, and most probably don't want
armed thugs either - whitepride rightwing anti-antifa assholes or paramilitary units controlled only by that
Adderall addict/Criminal-in-Chief in the White House.
Pres. Trump tweeting an unhinged conspiracy theory about an older gentleman severely hurt in Buffalo is not a political story. It defies any effort at rationalization or explanation. The problem is not that he tweeted it. The problem is he entertains this insanity.
Turns out they are just going to add revisionist addenda. Again profit is the motive, even more so with that:
Why are people saying will stop screening it? They have pulled it so that they can create necessary context and then they will put it back. https://t.co/xjfyBqAwoa
Japan's public broadcaster has taken down an anime video explaining the "Black Lives Matter" movement after receiving criticism that the video was offensive and failed to explain the complex racial issues accurately. https://t.co/8acaK9DzIv
Here's the thing I'd like to point out here: this is taxpayer-funded public broadcasting.
NYTimes is not. But.
There is further difference with NYTimes from other for-profit media in that while the whole NYTimes Co. is a public corporation traded on the stock exchange, and has many other media businesses they invest in which would or would not help make them profitable but all of those depend heavily upon the very old "blue chip brand" of the newspaper itself directed by the Ochs/Sulzberger family. Furthermore stock is divided between Class A and Class B and only one class is publicly traded, the other class is privately held, 90% by the family. So it's sort of a publicly traded/privately owned hybrid and as such is not as beholden to "clickbait" for profit as lots of other media cos, nor to editorial choices that please the public at large.
So with the NYTimes, cancel culture doesn't have as much play as it might with others.
the takeaway should have been Maiello's. Too bad he stopped participating here:
Great piece from @MichaelMaiello about Tom Cotton's odious NY Times Op Ed. Definitely made me see things from a different perspective: https://t.co/w5vfvLdbSE
The Atlantic runs op-eds on both sides of the culture war without becoming constantly embroiled in drama. Left outlets like the Guardian are always seeking a little change of pace too.
and I agree with Williams who points out the danger in this intro to his retweet and thread following:
This from @benyt’s excellent column unnerves me: “American view-from-nowhere, ‘objectivity’-obsessed, both-sides journalism is a failed experiment,” [Loury tweeted]. “We need to rebuild our industry as one that operates from a place of moral clarity.” https://t.co/HIYMuJBvRz
— Thomas Chatterton Williams (@thomaschattwill) June 8, 2020
The reason we are taught in j-school to strive for objectivity (impossible, of course, but worthy of our effort) is quite simply because “moral clarity” is always in the eye of the beholder. It feels obvious when your movement is ascendant, but less so when it is your opponent.
— Thomas Chatterton Williams (@thomaschattwill) June 8, 2020
People text me that they are concerned about this privately. But I don’t think privately is going to cut it.
— Thomas Chatterton Williams (@thomaschattwill) June 8, 2020
Some very influential voices are going to tell you, the reader, what is moral, what is racist, what is beyond the pale of acceptable conversation. And, for writers, there will be a collectively run HR department meting out punishments for transgression via social media.
— Thomas Chatterton Williams (@thomaschattwill) June 8, 2020
Division of labor in human affairs is necessary. We need activists, and we need journalists (we also need artists and lots of other truth tellers and moral persuaders). Journalism cannot become synonymous with activism without losing its own particular mission in the process.
— Thomas Chatterton Williams (@thomaschattwill) June 8, 2020
*misspelled "Lowery" as "Loury" in the original post.
Anyway, for the people who are dismissive of these concerns, don't think for a second it stops at journalism. It's been coming for the hard sciences and even mathematics. That will continue.
— Thomas Chatterton Williams (@thomaschattwill) June 8, 2020
Been thinking about this since yesterday. People can mockingly respond as though this is so easy. "Hmm...what is truth, really?" Was one sarcastic response I saw. How, though, do you cover an issue, say, like abortion from a position of "moral clarity" when both sides claim it?
— Thomas Chatterton Williams (@thomaschattwill) June 9, 2020
Once again: Yoko taught him right: keep your mind open, rigid moral codification is the danger, change is the constant. As a young woman (before John) she was an early member of Fluxus.
As is often true, @DouthatNYT has the pre steel-manned argument for the side of a controversy that he's taken. It's his thoughts on liberal norms at newspapers, the successor ideology, the Cotton op-ed, and more that I want to see critics grapple with https://t.co/rrHJrNUkCV
Part of it is that as media has shifted from being dominated by centrist outlets to more ideological/partisan ones (not necessarily a bad thing!) the idea of turning out your base to win elections has gained esteem because it implies you don't have to compromise on policy. https://t.co/VOR1AaSiY5
The Li Fang type stuff Is awful. Re: Tom Cotton, his call to Arma should have had serious counterbalance in a time of heavy passion. Greenwald Is just obsessive - dont need Joan Walsh to hazard why. Jumped the Shark, still jumping - 15 minutes done, except in Moscow.
I recognize there's a problem here but I wonder how big a problem or if it's being hyped. You can find a few isolated incidents where the left has gotten someone fired. You can also find some on the left that the right has successfully "canceled." Two quickly and easily come to mind, Ward Churchill and Bill Maher.
Many of the serious professional journalists I follow all seem all in a tizzy as if this is truly the end of the world. But then I've also seen other professionals say things in shock at their behavior as childish whiny entitled and navel-gazing. And I just think it's a good topic for news junkies to think about. And Sean Lennon was just voicing his opinion on what kind of media he likes to see, and voting his preference with his subscription.
The racism was too much. I fled. By Tiffanie Drayton Ms. Drayton is a writer. June 12, 2020
Discuss amongst yourselves this editorial choice.
Tiffanie moved back to Trinidad & Tobago, where her mother emigrated from when she was 4. She describes the different neighborhoods she lived in in the U.S. and the things that distressed her and made her return to the homeland.
Me, I'm wondering whether I should tell my sister-in-law immigrant from Kenya that she should offer to do an op-ed why she came to the U.S. She's told me stories many times how life sucked there if you're a woman. She's fascinating to talk to. She's actually a nurse's aide but can easily say she's a "writer" too. I know she can write at the very least at Tiffanie's caliber. Yes, you can call me unimpressed with the quality and depth of what Tiffanie has to say. It might be good for Teen magazine if it still exists.
now something happened that has Sean thinking about pandering to the mob:
I remember reading about the Red Army burning things because they were from the imperialist past. Not sure it was a net win for society. https://t.co/AYh8NO8HFU
Comments
Lost a good righteous rant, but yes, Sean, editors are supposed to block or provide context with loony tunes
opinions. Opinons are like assholes - everyone has one, but some don't wipe. Cotton supported
Trump's "let's buy Greenland" nonsense, and now he's supporting a collaborative anti-Antifa effort tied
to Barr's pulling together unmarked renegade security instead of just supporting states & cities calling
for any backup needed from state National Guard units - not these ragtag wannabe soldiers that fire
teargas unprovoked on civilians and then say they didn't even fire.
ANyway, NY Times isn't supposed to be serving up disinformation like coffee. Want a balanced opinion?
back it with facts, real polls, countervailing opinion - not just Ivanka & Jared stoking their private business.
The Old Grey Lady isn't a madam for a whorehouse. Yeah, most registered voters probably want law & order,
and most probably want us to learn something from George Lloyd's death, and most probably don't want
armed thugs either - whitepride rightwing anti-antifa assholes or paramilitary units controlled only by that
Adderall addict/Criminal-in-Chief in the White House.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 06/08/2020 - 5:48am
David Brooks, Ross Douthat, and Brett Stephens are columnists for NYT. There are different opinions.
The NYT does not have to mimic Facebook. Editors can root out nonsense.
The staffers may remember that the paper helped promote a war.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 06/08/2020 - 9:26am
Did he tell us how to get our money back? The website's still there today, can I cancel?
by NCD on Mon, 06/08/2020 - 1:44pm
I'd Rather spank Sean.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 06/09/2020 - 6:55pm
Gone wt Wind cancelled
(yes, it seems to be Gone wt Wind)
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/jun/10/gone-with-the-wind-dropped-...
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 06/10/2020 - 7:40am
This is straight-out cancel culture effect. HBO wants to please the prevailing culture, whatever it is at the time. Profit is the motive.
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/10/2020 - 4:12pm
Turns out they are just going to add revisionist addenda. Again profit is the motive, even more so with that:
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/10/2020 - 5:17pm
Another example of the editorial issue:
Here's the thing I'd like to point out here: this is taxpayer-funded public broadcasting.
NYTimes is not. But.
There is further difference with NYTimes from other for-profit media in that while the whole NYTimes Co. is a public corporation traded on the stock exchange, and has many other media businesses they invest in which would or would not help make them profitable but all of those depend heavily upon the very old "blue chip brand" of the newspaper itself directed by the Ochs/Sulzberger family. Furthermore stock is divided between Class A and Class B and only one class is publicly traded, the other class is privately held, 90% by the family. So it's sort of a publicly traded/privately owned hybrid and as such is not as beholden to "clickbait" for profit as lots of other media cos, nor to editorial choices that please the public at large.
So with the NYTimes, cancel culture doesn't have as much play as it might with others.
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/10/2020 - 4:11pm
the takeaway should have been Maiello's. Too bad he stopped participating here:
and I agree with Williams who points out the danger in this intro to his retweet and thread following:
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/10/2020 - 6:08pm
Once again: Yoko taught him right: keep your mind open, rigid moral codification is the danger, change is the constant. As a young woman (before John) she was an early member of Fluxus.
by artappraiser on Wed, 06/10/2020 - 6:14pm
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/12/2020 - 3:50pm
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/12/2020 - 6:11pm
Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice! Yay! (I think??!??)
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/12/2020 - 6:44pm
It's not an easy thing going against the flow when you were raised in hipsterville:
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/12/2020 - 6:37pm
Olivia Nuzzi:
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/12/2020 - 9:11pm
I strongly second Ms. Nuzzi's recommendation to read Taibbi's article: "The American Press Is Destroying Itself". Thanks for posting the tweet, Arta.
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 06/12/2020 - 9:54pm
The Li Fang type stuff Is awful. Re: Tom Cotton, his call to Arma should have had serious counterbalance in a time of heavy passion. Greenwald Is just obsessive - dont need Joan Walsh to hazard why. Jumped the Shark, still jumping - 15 minutes done, except in Moscow.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 06/13/2020 - 1:50am
I recognize there's a problem here but I wonder how big a problem or if it's being hyped. You can find a few isolated incidents where the left has gotten someone fired. You can also find some on the left that the right has successfully "canceled." Two quickly and easily come to mind, Ward Churchill and Bill Maher.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 06/12/2020 - 11:19pm
Many of the serious professional journalists I follow all seem all in a tizzy as if this is truly the end of the world. But then I've also seen other professionals say things in shock at their behavior as childish whiny entitled and navel-gazing. And I just think it's a good topic for news junkies to think about. And Sean Lennon was just voicing his opinion on what kind of media he likes to see, and voting his preference with his subscription.
by artappraiser on Fri, 06/12/2020 - 11:47pm
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/13/2020 - 1:41am
You mean "laughed ať", right?
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 06/13/2020 - 1:51am
Because reform won't happen, but abolishing the police will?
by ocean-kat on Sat, 06/13/2020 - 2:21am
Here's the latest at the top of the home page from the new NYTimes op-ed editors
I’m a Black American. I Had to Get Out.
The racism was too much. I fled. By Tiffanie Drayton Ms. Drayton is a writer. June 12, 2020
Discuss amongst yourselves this editorial choice.
Tiffanie moved back to Trinidad & Tobago, where her mother emigrated from when she was 4. She describes the different neighborhoods she lived in in the U.S. and the things that distressed her and made her return to the homeland.
Me, I'm wondering whether I should tell my sister-in-law immigrant from Kenya that she should offer to do an op-ed why she came to the U.S. She's told me stories many times how life sucked there if you're a woman. She's fascinating to talk to. She's actually a nurse's aide but can easily say she's a "writer" too. I know she can write at the very least at Tiffanie's caliber. Yes, you can call me unimpressed with the quality and depth of what Tiffanie has to say. It might be good for Teen magazine if it still exists.
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/13/2020 - 2:39am
now something happened that has Sean thinking about pandering to the mob:
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/13/2020 - 5:01pm
Oops kind of like what the military labels "collateral damage", can't get it right 100% of the time but the war is still on:
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/13/2020 - 5:20pm