Shooting death of 8-year-old during violent night in Atlanta

By artappraiser on Sun, 07/05/2020 - 6:57pm |

https://t.co/kpK6sKJJm6

This is the type of incident I worry about. Protests shouldn't take over streets without police participation.
— Scott Caldwell (@okcactus) July 5, 2020

URL:

https://www.cbs46.com/news/8-year-old-dies-during-night-of-violence-in-atlanta/article_3de6674c-be41-11ea-8e33-2b7eacb8bee8.html

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Atlanta mayor: ‘Enough is enough’, she blames armed protesters at evening news conference

From AJC.com via WSB radio site, July 5, :30 pm

After an 8-year-old girl was fatally shot near the Wendy’s restaurant where Rayshard Brooks was killed by a police officer, Atlanta’s mayor gave a harsh rebuke of the armed protesters that have taken the place over.

“You shot and killed a baby,” Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms said. “And there wasn’t just one shooter, there were at least two shooters.”

In an evening news conference, Bottoms demanded that the people who have been seen carrying long guns near the University Avenue restaurant leave the area.

“If you want to be a part of a solution and not the problem, you need to clear out of that area,” she said.

The strong words follow the death of Secoriea Turner, who was shot while sitting in a car across the street from Wendy’s parking lot.

Former Officer Garrett Rolfe shot Brooks in the restaurant’s parking lot last month, leading to a slew of protests across the city.

“Following the death of Rayshard Brooks, there have been a number of protests in the area, and there has been a problems with protesters closing the streets off,” Bottoms said.

Atlanta police last week said they had removed the barriers from the street outside the restaurant.

“Last night, I received a notice the barriers were back up about 45 minutes before I got the message that Secoriea was killed,” Bottoms said.

The girl was riding in a car with her mother and an adult friend on I-75/85 when they exited onto University Avenue shortly before 10 p.m. Saturday, police spokesman Sgt. John Chafee said.

The driver tried to turn into a parking lot in the 1200 block of Pryor Road but was confronted by a “group of armed individuals who had blocked the entrance,” Chafee said.

“At some point, someone in that group opened fire on the vehicle, striking it multiple times and striking the child who was inside,” he said. The driver took the child to Atlanta Medical Center, Chafee said.

Bottoms beseached anyone with information about the fatal shooting to come forward.

"An 8-year-old girl was killed last night because her mother was riding down the street," Bottoms said. "If Secoriea was not safe last night, none of us are safe."

To the armed people at the restaurant, the Mayor said: "It's over."

by artappraiser on Sun, 07/05/2020 - 7:09pm

I saw a partial video of Mayor Lance-Bottoms press conference on CNN tv. Seemed to me she's plenty fed up with BLM actions in Atlanta and is just about ready to give wholehearted support to her police force as it is, no more apologizing for them.

I tried to find a video to post so others could judge for themselves but had no luck so far.

FWIW, that was my interpretation of what I saw.

A reminder that most of the BLM matter protests are against police forces of cities with blue governments

So blue local governments are being blamed as not capable of handling policing. It's just that simple!

If the goal is to change power dynamic between civilians and police, I don't see how it will help if Biden doesn't win the presidency and the US Congress doesn't change.

by artappraiser on Sun, 07/05/2020 - 8:31pm

3 killed, over 20 injured in Atlanta holiday shootings

By: Asia Simone Burns The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Published: July 5, 2020 2:34 PM via WBSradio.com

[....] In another incident, as many as 14 people were injured when shots were fired on Auburn Avenue, Chafee said. Police were sent to the area bout 1 a.m., he said.

Investigators said a “large group” of people were gathered in the intersection to watch fireworks at a party.

At some point, a car hit a group of the partygoers, Chafee said. The incident sparked a fight and led to gunshots.

All of the victims were taken to hospitals by private cars, and 12 of them are stable, Chafee said. Two of them were reported in critical condition and then died Sunday, he said.

About 11:30 p.m. Saturday, police were called to the 1500 block of Hardee Street after two people were reportedly shot, according to Chafee.

Investigators said the man and woman had confronted a group of people who had been setting off fireworks outside their home. At some point during the conflict, shots were fired and the victims were hit, Chafee said.

The man and woman were taken to Grady Memorial Hospital, Chafee said.

“Both declined to provide information to police regarding what happened,”He said.

About the same time, five people were hurt in a drive-by shooting at a location on Lakewood Avenue, Chafee said.

All five victims were taken an area hospitals, he said. They were listed as stable.

Two people were also reported injured in unrelated shootings on Etheridge Drive and Edgewood Street.

City Council President Felicia Moore said she was up until 4 a.m. Sunday talking to constituents alarmed by the spasm of violence overnight.[....]

by artappraiser on Sun, 07/05/2020 - 7:15pm

City Council President Felicia Moore said she was up until 4 a.m. Sunday talking to constituents alarmed by the spasm of violence overnight.

excerpt worth emphasizing.

by artappraiser on Sun, 07/05/2020 - 7:16pm

A recurrent theme is that when police are held to account, other police officers often back off. Personal grievances are solved in a one-on-one basis. Local citizens have lost faith in the police, so they are reluctant to report crimes.

The spate of violence may be happenstance, but observers say it’s a safe bet multiple factors are at play: pent up energy and angst from quarantine; folks trying to handle disputes themselves rather than call police whom they distrust; and Atlanta officers working less proactively because of what they see as anti-police sentiment on the streets and a lack of support from local politicians.

“There seems to be withdrawal by police,” said Russell Covey, Georgia State University criminal law professor. “The lack of a police presence may create something of a vacuum of authority.”

Atlanta police are indeed withdrawing, said Atlanta police officer Jason Segura, president of the International Brotherhood of Police Officers’ local chapter. The violence spike can likely be attributed to officers taking a less proactive approach to preventing crime, he said.

“Officers are afraid to do their job,” Segura said.

The Atlanta Police Department didn’t respond to a request for comment.

Lately, Segura said, every officer he talks with is angry about the treatment of the nine Atlanta officers who were charged by Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard in June

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/gun-violence-spikes-atlanta-amid-debate-over-police-use-force/omgITkFDQjRkDPwDOrW4aJ/

I don't know how you get off the treadmill.

by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/05/2020 - 7:30pm

Also predictable that there are very high crime areas surrounded by low crime areas on the outskirts of the city.

https://33n.atlantaregional.com/monday-mapday/monday-mapday-interactive-map-atlanta-homicide-data

by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/05/2020 - 7:41pm

If black lives matter: civilians seem to kill more black lives than police do. They especially seem to kill and maim even more black lives when police services are reduced whether intentionally or via "blue flu" type actions.

Edit to add: should be kept in mind that police are impacted by the coronavirus pandemic at least as much as civilians, probably more so. Not the least of which, they are essential workers who have not had any time off.

by artappraiser on Sun, 07/05/2020 - 7:45pm

If the police are not held to account, why should citizens report crimes? The police and their union broke the social contract.

Police call in sick after officers are charged with assaulting college students

Why would you assume that you are getting Officer Friendly when you call?

Edit to add:

The communities that would call the police are ravaged by COVID as well. Many may not be getting paychecks and could be facing eviction.

by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/05/2020 - 7:50pm

The voice of a community leader

I called Elbert Bartell, a Westside resident who used to head the local Neighborhood Planning Unit and who lives near where the body of an 18-year-old lay in the street. He was angered by the slow response.

“It’s just another example that police are more interested in themselves than the interests of the public,” he said. “We know they want to deliver a message to (the city administration). But in that, we lose. We lose with the brutality and then we lose when they pull back.”

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/opinion-hello-outrage-atlanta-shootings-surge-but-not-the-cops/pUYKjFGY8LcxSVlrHZpb4H/

by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/05/2020 - 7:58pm

too easy a complaint on your part. The problem is not that professional police and police science doesn't know and understand that. I can't tell you how many times over the decades that I've read that police forces resent ICE raids because they make immigrants fearful to tattle about crime to them. (And the public knows that too. How many movies show cops as friends with the local hookers so they can get intel on the neighborhood?)

I'm tired of reading simple answers. It's a waste of time. A lot of the protest leaders answers are worthless nonsense that will no doubt make things worse.

About the only simple answer that explains anything is that civilians in poor neighborhoods have too many guns. Which makes policing always revolve around: first things first, does this person have a gun?

Edit to add: and don't bother to throw George Floyd up here. He was clearly murdered by a sociopathic cop. I'd like to return to the main point: how many of those incidents are there per year compared to all the Afro-Americans killed by civilians just this weekend? Are lives mattering really the issue here, or emotions and power dynamics? If it's power dynamics, and you're going to give power to civilians, you better do something about all the guns or we're going back to "wild west."

by artappraiser on Sun, 07/05/2020 - 8:21pm

The idea that police forces understand is crap. The deal they want is that they can harass and not get pushback. The police are the ones who fight to keep bad officers on the force. The current conversation in Hollywood is that they gave the public the idea that they were saints. There are cops on the street with multiple complaints that were swept under the rug. If cops cared, they would cheer when bad cops were punished. Instead they call in sick to send a message.

Chicago had a private police prison. Why call the police? A squad set up by Baltimore to get guns off the street turned themselves into a gang that stole from thieves. Why call the police? The cops are crooks.

I don't have "throw George Floyd up here", but I can if I want because you do not control my actions.

Chicago has strict gun laws, but neighboring states provide a steady supply of ammo and guns.

The only long term solution I see is good paying jobs and a focus on eduction. Good luck with that.

Until you fix education and employment, criminals will prey on the weak and other criminals. People will get caught in the crossfire.

We have been in the frigging Wild Wild West for decades.

Edit to add:

Get rid of guns without fixing education and jobs, and criminals will switch to knives and baseball bats.

by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/05/2020 - 9:33pm

Here are former members of the Aurora Colorado police department mocking the choking death of Elijah McClain to "cheer up" a friend.

https://www.theroot.com/aurora-police-officers-fired-for-selfies-mocking-elijah-1844267216

Edit to add:

Went looking for support that lack of trust between police and the community is a major factor. Found Harvard professor Thomas Abt

Zoom in on minority communities and it’s even worse. As Abt writes, “Over the past decade in Boston, police have made arrests in 90 percent of the homicides with white victims but in just 42 percent of those with black victims.” In some communities of color, the homicide solve rate can fall to the single digits.

So on one hand, many black and Latino Americans feel harassed for petty crimes, from loitering to traffic violations to drugs, or for no reason at all. On the other hand, police aren’t actually solving major crimes in their communities to keep them safe.

The resulting distrust likely leads to more violence: When people don’t trust the police or the criminal justice system, they’re less likely to work with either. This not only makes it harder for detectives to catch people who may go on to commit more crimes or murders, but if someone gets into a dangerous or heated situation, his distrust in the police may lead him to take matters into his own hands — potentially resorting to violence — instead of calling 911.

A 2016 study spoke to this dynamic. In 2004, Milwaukee police officers brutally beat Frank Jude, a biracial man they believed stole a police badge. Researchers Matthew Desmond of Harvard, Andrew Papachristos of Yale, and David Kirk of Oxford found that after news of the beating broke in 2005, 17 percent (22,200) fewer 911 calls were made in the following year than would have otherwise been expected, particularly in black neighborhoods. The effect persisted even after the officers involved in the beating were charged and fired.

But crime was still happening in these neighborhoods. Indeed, as 911 calls dropped, homicides rose to the deadliest level in seven years. That suggests people were simply choosing not to involve the police. It might even mean that civilians took matters into their own hands to protect themselves, leading to a cycle of violence.

This is an especially acute problem in low-income, minority neighborhoods, because they’ve disproportionately felt the abuse and failures of the justice system — explaining why such communities generally report higher violent and lethal crime rates. But this would be a problem in any neighborhood, no matter the racial or socioeconomic makeup, that went through the same kinds of problems with policing.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/7/12/20679091/thomas-abt-bleeding-out-urban-gun-violence-book-review

He did find hope in a program in Oakland that focused on about 400 criminals involved in an amazing percentage of crimes. The offered help to the criminals, but promised swift action if they committed crimes. The crime rate plummeted. The solve rate for homicides rose. They focused on known criminals. Gun retrieval was not a primary source of interest. Even directly solving poverty was not a primary focus. Life improved.

by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/05/2020 - 10:34pm

Atlanta mayor says 'enough is enough' after girl fatally shot near scene of Rayshard Brooks' death

By Susannah Cullinane, Hollie Silverman and Sharif Paget, @ CNN.com, Updated 12:12 AM ET, Mon July 6, 2020

Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms is calling for change to fight "the enemy within" saying that enough is enough after an 8-year-old girl was fatally shot Saturday near the Wendy's where Rayshard Brooks was killed.

Later Sunday night the Atlanta Police Department said another man was killed and two other victims were injured during an exchange of gunfire just two doors down from the scene of Brooks' death.

Secoriea Turner, 8, was shot in the area of University Ave and I-75/85 Saturday night while riding in a vehicle with her mother and an adult friend, according to police. The driver was attempting to enter a parking lot at 1238 Pryor Road where a group of individuals illegally placed barricades. Someone in the group opened fire on the vehicle, according to police, striking Turner.

"I am asking you to please honor this baby's life. Please, if you know who did this, please turn them in," Bottoms said at a press conference Sunday.

"Enough is enough. We have talked about this movement that is happening across America at this moment in time when we have the ears and the interest of people across this country and across this globe who are saying they want to see change."

But Bottoms said while the civil rights movement had a "defined common enemy" the current situation was different.

"We're fighting the enemy within when we are shooting each other up in our streets," the mayor said. "You shot and killed a baby. And it wasn't one shooter, there was at least two shooters," she said.

Bottoms said she wants people to have the same passion towards ending community violence that they have for police reform.

"We've had over 75 shootings in the city over the past several weeks," Bottoms said. "You can't blame that on APD [Atlanta Police Department]."

Bottoms said during the press conference that there had been a number of protests in the area where Brooks was killed and challenges with demonstrators closing roads. Saturday night she said she was told that barriers had been put back up.

"An 8-year-old girl was killed last night because her mother was riding down the street," Bottoms said. "You don't want someone on the street who would shoot into a car randomly. If you know them, you should turn them in." [....]

by artappraiser on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 1:21am

The press conference video:

Mayor Bottoms & Interim Chief Bryant speak on 8-year-old murdered over the holiday weekend. https://t.co/iCjls5QC47
— Atlanta Police Department (@Atlanta_Police) July 5, 2020

it starts out with her directly addressing the Rayshard Books death and the protests in the area, and how an 8-yr. old girl was shot and killed there not by a police officer but by a coward and that it was somehow involved in moving of barriers by protesters...she sounds disgusted and choked up about wild wild west shoot em up because you can, you can't blame this on the police officer, shooting up a car with an 8-yr-old baby in the car!...

by artappraiser on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 1:29am

edited clip of family of the girl speaking at the above press conference

"They say Black Lives Matter. You killed your own... You killed a child.”

Secoriya Williamson, father of 8-year-old Secoriea Turner, addressed the public after his daughter was shot and killed last night in Atlanta by armed protesters. pic.twitter.com/J8zngZsjaQ
— Daily Caller (@DailyCaller) July 6, 2020

by artappraiser on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 1:31am

A tragic death. A city where many do not trust the police and will not talk to the police. A city where the police and the union tell citizens that they will not abide by laws that govern the rest of us. If police officers are charged, the rest of the officers slow down on doing their jobs. A city where open carry of loaded long guns is allowed. What could go wrong?

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 10:30am

You could post every shooting in the country day by day and it won't stop the shootings. We have the highest unemployment in decades, a lethal virus out of control, food lines miles long, a nation saturated with guns, and a Republican President intent on stoking division, violence, fear and hate.

500 were shot in Las Vegas with weapons that were made for battlefields. The Republican Party did nothing. Zero. They did not even have the courage to ban bump stocks which the Las Vegas shooter used with his 100 round drum magazines to make his assault rifles fully automatic. NZ banned assault weapons after a massacre of 50, Australia banned them after a similar one, Clinton banned the weapons and large magazines for 10 years. Then GWB and the GOP let the ban expire. Handguns need to be more closely controlled also. Republicans won't even allow funding for research on ways to reduce gun violence. Guns and gun violence is just another reliable tool Republicans use to control their low information, angry tribe at election time.

by NCD on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 11:11am

I think the other major factor is that people say that All Lives Matter, but the term Black Lives Matter drives them batty. The position taken seems to be that we can't talk about police abuse until "black on black crime" is solved. It comes across as a diversion. I also note that for many cities, including Chicago, homicides have fallen dramatically despite the rate present today.

It is interesting that when Ida B Wells fought lynching, a white socialite told Wells that before lynching was addressed, Wells should focus on the Black crime rate.

A guy shows up with a gun kills a girl, and BLM is the cause?

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 12:02pm

What you are saying is bullshit, it's not a diversion! The title of the movement refers to black lives mattering, not just to police abuse. Furthermore, if you want to rectify the problem you've got to deal with the matter of HOW to police a community. Go argue with the mayor of Atlanta that it's a diversion. This particular case is especially spot on because the crime is all related to the site of a protest. They were being hands off the area with the mayor's assent but monitoring the situation, people moving barricades and such and then there was the damn shooting.

Do you want police or do you want wild west? That is HER question. She's going with police for now, she said Enough is enough! Basically: crackdown time, I gave you a chance to handle it yourself and all that's happening is murder of 8 year olds.

Many in the movement are calling to defund police. Black on black crime IT IS THE ULTIMATE QUESTION. How do you handle it?

Unless all the protests were just to call attention to a problem and then shrug about solutions and say "not our problem somebody else fix it".

FURTHERMORE as I have already pointed out, if the crime rates go up between now and the election because of cop slowdown in reaction to the protests, it could endanger Biden's election. Crime was down naturally during lockdown, now it's started to rage again. And the pissed off police might just let it rage out of control. Which could make all the protests for naught, you'll get the same or worse DOJ doing nothing.

by artappraiser on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 2:26pm

Defund means shifting funding for things like armored vehicles to social services.

A guy dressed like a bounty hunter magically shows up. Is he BLM?

The organizers denounced the shooting.

Brooks' sister is upset that the memorial is being taken down.

Trump is going to be Trump:

Brooks shot in the back = the police protect us

Complain about police abuse = Leftists want crime

To combat Trump, you take control of the meaning of defund

You denounce the murder

All this is happening under Trump, things were better under Obama

Biden served with Obama

Biden can provide calm

Trump is a chaos again.

Let's Make America Think Again

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 2:48pm

A guy shows up with a gun kills a girl, and BLM is the cause?

REALLY THIS IS SO FUCKED UP THINKING! Black Lives Matter means blacks getting shot and killed matters by whoever does it. Listen to the Mayor's speech.

If it's the "Get rid of police" movement it needs a name change.

Guns are out there, deal with the reality of that. You really think those guns are going to go away if you cut police?

Sticking your head in the sand and refusing to recognize a rising crime wave because of protests against police coinciding with a pandemic lockdown providing criminals opportunity is not caring about black lives!!!

Really sounds like you give a shit about black lives, all you care about is getting back at police abusing authority. Not kidding. That's what it sounds like to me. That you are irrationally willing to sacrifice a great number of black lives to get back at what happened to George Floyd and others like him.

by artappraiser on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 2:38pm

You coined the term pity olympics

You dismissed any black person who disagreed with your narrow point of view

Now you link to the Daily Caller and say that you care so deeply.

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 2:50pm

What I think doesn't matter nor does it even matter what the imaginary strawman you make of my past writing thinks. I'm just one pseudonym on the internet.

The deaths of crime-ridden inner-city black people are not an internet game where one pseudonym wins against another on the internet and it all goes away.

Forget me. Look at the news itself with an open mind rather than through an ideological/partisan lens.. You have your head in the sand about a murder wave going on. Listen to the mayor of Atlanta's speech.

Denial is not a river in Egypt.

by artappraiser on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 3:13pm

Everyone realizes what is happening. Rational people realize that change is not going to occur with Trump in office. Trump sees racism as his only way to re-election. Trump cannot calm things down. Watch his rallies

Edit to add:

Mayor Bottoms says Trump is making it worse and should stop talking.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/keisha-bottoms-trump-protests-making-it-worse-face-the-nation/

People are on edge. Mayors are on their own. Citizens don't trust government or the police. I have no magic solution except to have a different face at the top to try to cool things down. Hopefully there are cameras that can track the murderers down.

There is chaos because the economy is crashing, a pandemic is raging, and police are not trusted. This is a field day for criminals. Trump cannot settle things down.

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 3:14pm

and may I go back to what I actually have been saying rather than what you are imagining me saying by not keeping an open mind and making me into your internet bogeyman, let's make it big and clear

I am very worried that if the crime rate continues to go up a lot between now and November Biden could lose

by artappraiser on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 3:17pm

and please quit painting me as saying nasty things about black people, people with black skin are members of my family, including a grand nephew not yet 1 yr. old. Use someone else for your strawman please.

I really can't take much more of that simply because it is a big waste of time and a depressing one at that because of the games you play and your poor comprehension of others' comments. And I don't need more depression right now.

by artappraiser on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 3:23pm

I understand your comments about the crime wave. I don't see an easy solution. I think Trump and his rallies make things worse. Trump will use whatever he can to feed red meat to his base. If crime falls to zero in Atlanta and Chicago, he will take credit despite doing nothing. If crime rises, he will say that only he can deal with it. Just figure that Trump will be an obstacle no matter what happens.

zI really don't stress about Trump. I see people working legally to fight voter fraud, GOTV, remove statues, I see the consciousness of the nation changing. I am hopeful. I think Trump's antics are wearing thin. I also think that it will be a close election.

If Trump is re-elected, we do not give up, we keep fighting, because what other option do we have available.

We disagree on how to achieve a goal.

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 3:58pm

I am saying that if the crime rate continues to rise and it may, re-electing Trump means that the country is over. If the response to chaos aided and abetted by Trump is to re-elect Trump, our experiment in democracy is over.

Mayors and Governors have been left to fend for themselves. Trump talks to his base. Biden talks unity.

I see no way to stop criminals from behaving like criminals. Trump wants to full Posse Comitatus. I see Biden asking local leadership what they need.

Watching Trump, I see desperation. I do not see leadership. Hopefully enough voters will show up in November to prove me right.

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 3:38pm

Progress is always uneven. On balance though when Blacks weigh the successes against the failures the NYT capitalizing Black over white which will not be capitalized will out weigh every thing else. The question is how to build on that accomplishment.

I've noted that the Washington post still isn't capitalizing Black. That is a good spot to focus your energy next

by ocean-kat on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 3:23pm

Oceankat, extra funny you should chose that to make your point. I can't even get up my hackles about that one. You know why? Nobody in other fields ever gave a shit about various newspapers style rules, it's always been an area of its own. Not even book editors, they don't give a shit about newspapers' style rules. Or they make fun of quirks and differences. It's truly a nothing burger. Basically a newspaper's editing style/rules are about branding, so the reader recognizes the writing, they look to be different from the other. So it's the opposite of "trending", editing style is considered best when it's unique, not when everyone does it.

by artappraiser on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 3:36pm

I'm just going with it because rmrd thought it was important enough to post here to make sure we all read it. Of everything in the news that's what he needed to shine a spot light on.

by ocean-kat on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 5:17pm

Also made Columbia Journalism Review

https://www.cjr.org/analysis/capital-b-black-styleguide.php

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 5:52pm

Thanks for keeping us updated on this very important story. I happened to notice the white supremacist groups are capitalizing christian but not Jew or Muslim. I hope you'll join me in no longer capitalizing christian. We certainly don't want to be seen following their lead.

by ocean-kat on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 6:02pm

White supremacists are not setting the style standards.

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 7:22pm

They clearly are since the rationalization for not capitalizing white is that white supremacist do it therefore we must not. You pointed out the rationalization specifically, twice, on your blog. It seems you consider it an important point. Here I am trying to fight the white supremacist with you by using an approach you endorsed and still you want to argue.

by ocean-kat on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 8:25pm

Style Guide: Please make sure to capitalize the 2nd P in PeraclesPlease. Otherwise i feel cancelled and diminutive.

by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 5:58pm

NCD, you cannot get away with talking like things were like they were before the protests.

Look at the change in crime stats in NYC just for one example.

There is direct cause and effect here.

There is extra opportunity for criminals and there are police either holding back out of their own accord as counter-protests or in some cases they are already being forced to hold back by higher ups.

There is an increase in crime, period. Cause and effect. The pandemic situation is of course part of the equation.

by artappraiser on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 2:46pm

So unless cops can choke people and abuse protestors they can't stop real criminals?

by NCD on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 8:09pm

Who said that? You're going to do the hyperbolic strawman thing too? Do you realize I've posted like at least 20 articles about different kinds of police reform?

I'm really getting ready to give up here. Really it's why bother if I am going to be made into the winger everyone here seems to want to argue with.

Whatever happened to nuance and reading about what policies work? Nobody's interested in that, they just want to do polemics and hyperbole?

I sometimes wonder if having a different president is going to make any difference. Because so many seem to need their enemies to fight with and yell at the other side instead of trying to make democracy work.

What is wroing with trying to see cops p.o.v. in order to figure out what to do? Just fire them all? Give up on the country? Kill all the Republicans? Lock em up?!

by artappraiser on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 9:20pm

Black Lives Matter formed to address the issue of state or local power used to harass and abuse black lives.

With the movement’s attention comes a familiar refrain: Why doesn’t Black Lives Matter focus on “black-on-black” crime?

It’s a question asked, in various forms, from Facebook to cable networks to comments on this site. The answer, one writer says, is Black Lives Matter isn’t solely focused on the loss of black lives but also on a lack of justice.

“When a civilian has committed a violent crime, they’re generally arrested, tried and then convicted,” Franchesca Ramsey, a writer and activist who discusses race, explains in the MTV series Decoded (which you can watch here in full).

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/07/27/why-doesnt-black-lives-matter-doesnt-focus-talk-about-black-black-crime/87609692/

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 7:40pm

The NAACP addresses Congressional issues

The NAACP Legal Defense Fund addressee legal issues

National Action Network deals with a multitude of issues including urban crime

Color of Change addresses electing politicians and prosecutors

NMA addresses medical issues

Many organizations addresses urban crime

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/06/opinion/black-activists-dont-ignore-crime.html

https://www.showingupforracialjustice.org/black-led-organizations.html

Stacey Abrams and Eric Holder lead organizations that address voter suppression

There is now an attempt to distract from police abuse.

Police abuse is being dismissed because there is "black on black" crime.

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 9:18pm

Again: DENIAL of CURRENT reality. Hello, DENIAL not a river in Egypt. There is a HUGE spike in gun violence in our major cities right now, started happening in the month of June and continues through today. You are talking 2019. I am talking NOW, in the news. Wake up read some news news, something else besides Rmrd's Library of Favorite Links Proving Everything He Believes.

by artappraiser on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 11:18pm

Are you red-baiting?

by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 11:20pm

With the movement’s attention comes a familiar refrain: Why doesn’t Black Lives Matter focus on “black-on-black” crime?

The difference is now it's coming from black people. Are they all racist right wingers too?

by ocean-kat on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 11:41pm

Why doesnt TakeAKnee concern itself with inner city poverty and abortions and sports for teens? Why Is Utah west of the Rockies and not east?

by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 11:45pm

I don't know. It's the end of the world?

by ocean-kat on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 12:00am

The complaints from the 2016 article came from the back community. BLM stated that they were set up to address police abuse. There are organizations that focus on urban crime. There are organizations that focus on voter suppression, helping newly released inmates, maternal health, etc.

by rmrd0000 on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 12:00am

Governor just called out 1,000 National Guard to protect state capitol government sites so that state police can increase patrols in Atlanta

by artappraiser on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 11:10pm

Republican distraction, crisis peddling? Won't bother to link as they apparently irritate you.

"Atlanta's police said there have been 50 homicides there through late June, up from 46 the previous year. Rapes, robberies, burglaries and larcenies all declined by double-digit percentages, police said, while aggravated assaults increased slightly."

by NCD on Mon, 07/06/2020 - 11:33pm

From the same article

Gerald Griggs, vice president of the Atlanta NAACP and a lawyer, blamed police for much of the recent crime, suggesting they have not been doing enough.

"A lot of the onus for the violence falls right at the feet of law enforcement," he said. "There are certain elements in our community that don't take a break when the police take a break. You're sworn to protect and defend, but when there are a few rogue [police] being held accountable you decide to shirk your responsibility? That speaks volumes about why people were protesting to begin with."

Doesn't look like he blames BLM.

by rmrd0000 on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 12:23am

And the mayor is very clearly not blaming police.

Neither is blaming BLM.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion as to who and what is to blame.

None of the blaming is fixing the problem though.

To be clear, the problem is: recent RAPIDLY INCREASING crime, a gun violence WAVE in many cities starting in June. Not the same old same old "black on black" story.

And the question is: will it continue and grow because of lack of jobs and a terrible economic situation. And if that happens will blue city governments and reforms attempted because of BLM protests be blamed by voters?

Or can enough people in the affected areas (and/or good police) care enough as they did about BLM protests to do something to reverse the wave so a boomerang against reform by voters doesn't happen? Not going to be easy when everyone is broke and out of a job, many more homeless on the streets.

Or is everyone involved just going to go with the status quo and yell "police evil" and let it grow? At the same time many die from coronavirus, just let it happen? Far more deaths than any police have caused? Just to be proved morally right? Does the problem of police abuse have to be fixed right now, right this minute, is it the absolute priority? Or is it more important to pay attention to larger numbers dying of gun violence and coronavirus?

by artappraiser on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 2:06pm

Both problems can be addressed. Policies abuse IS a priority. If the police are not trusted, no one will supply information to the police when a crime occurs.

The infusion of money to deal with social evils will come from shifting funds from the police.

by rmrd0000 on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 2:43pm

Crisis peddling is exactly the point I'm trying to make. If the crisis continues to grow, there will be more to peddle and more receptive voters

by artappraiser on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 1:35pm

My whole life: Republicans win when there's high crime by selling "tough on crime" whether real of not. Especially when it coincides with a bad economy. Last thing people like when the economy is bad is a high crime rate, go figure.

Do you remember Willie Horton? Do you realize that there's Willie Horton stories ripe for the picking in New York's crime wave right now? There's new laws on bail.

My whole life: Republicans win when there's high crime by selling "tough on crime" whether real of not.

All my life EXCEPT WHEN a "third way" Dem was elected selling "more police on the streets" and was re-elected partly because of a1995 crime bill that many lefties to this day complain about as being a horror.

by artappraiser on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 1:54pm

Trump is in the White House and considered too incompetent to handle the problem. His race-baiting Mt. Rushmore speech fell flat.

by rmrd0000 on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 2:02pm

To me, your simplistic comebacks like this one sound like this: as long as Trump doesn't win, everything is ok. Getting rid of Trump is really all you care about. Forget the Senate, forget the governerships, forget a wave of people dying in the streets. Dems can lose the House, you don't care as long as Trump is gone.

Your delusions about that are delusions because: if he loses re-election, he and his fans will still be out there. He will still be tweeting. He will probably be on Fox News every night as well.

There is no miracle that's going to happen by him losing the presidency. The actual issues have to be tended to. Certainly nationally very little change will happen if Republicans continue to control the Senate. Especially on something like crime and policing.

by artappraiser on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 2:35pm

When I hurl a harsh reply in your direction, you complain

Yet you feel that you have the privilege to use any term you choose to address me.

We will have Biden or we will have Trump.

No one expects magical solutions.

No one expects Trump will leave the stage.

Trump is not going to be helpful in decreasing our problems.

Biden least may start us in the right direction

by rmrd0000 on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 2:49pm

No idea about "harsh reply" Olympics

by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 3:03pm

Yeah.right.

by rmrd0000 on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 3:12pm

Whatevs

by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 4:07pm

Plus "great sucking sound" 3rd party businessman to siphon away tough-on-crime votes

by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 2:06pm

I am not exceptionally conspiratorial but I could easily believe that many police unions are advocating that their members lay back a bit on crime fighting at this time after BLM protests in blue cities in an effort to help elect less liberal local governments next time.

Seen it happen in NYC! Giulani and Bloomberg, each re-elected, both "tough on crime." The latter actually managed some very good results on that front, too. All for naught all of sudden NYC has crime stat numbers equal to 1995! Gosh, I wonder how that happened...

by artappraiser on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 2:44pm

p.s. should add the nuance that certain recent changes in crime fighting in NYC are definitely not effects of cop union furtively sabotaging things. The cops are actually very angry that the mayor and city council disbanded their special plainclothes unit immediately in response to BLM protests, they are also angry about the effects of the new bail laws. And they are complaining publicly that these have greatly contributed to the current huge spike in crime. So in NYC it's not so much a case of them secretly pulling back, they are actually complaining loudly that the gummint is not allowing them to fight crime successfully.

by artappraiser on Tue, 07/07/2020 - 2:52pm

Right before her tweet announcing her positive test for Covid-19 and asymptomatic status, Mayor Lance Bottoms tweeted this:

pic.twitter.com/kNOkHQWD9S
— Keisha Lance Bottoms (@KeishaBottoms) July 6, 2020

by artappraiser on Wed, 07/08/2020 - 3:20am

Sadly the comments arent very supportive, and seem to misunderstand theories of non-violence. 1 pulls up a section from David & Goliath on Wyatt Walker (think Br'er Rabbit-like trickster, or more appropriated, Flavor Flav to MLK's Chuck D) and The "Children's Crusade" for Black kids used in Civil Rights, but thinks it proves the opposite.

by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 07/08/2020 - 5:32am

Mayor says councilmember interceded on armed protesters' behalf

One of the more silly narratives promoted on this website is that non-white people with guns would instantly be shot dead by police, but in both Seattle and Atlanta, they were left alone by police, until they killed children. https://t.co/vkA6QHcZWR
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) July 9, 2020

To be clear, just standing there with a gun is not illegal in Georgia (I don't know about Seattle). But abandoning entire areas and creating police-free zones leads to the deaths of innocent children. The leadership of Seattle and Atlanta can't abandon children to criminals.
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) July 9, 2020

If a bunch of people with guns commandeer a city block, or a Wendy's, it's totally okay to have some police nearby to keep an eye on them. That's not violating anybody's civil liberties. It is violating someone's rights to let an anarchist or criminal murder them.
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) July 9, 2020

by artappraiser on Wed, 07/08/2020 - 11:01pm

Shooting death of 8-year-old during violent night in Atlanta

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