there was also real terrorism being planned while the Capitol kabuki was being performed
D.C. police officials also say two pipe bombs were recovered, one outside the Democratic National Committee and one outside the Republican National Committee. Police found a cooler from a vehicle that had a long gun and Molotov cocktail on Capitol grounds.https://t.co/6fi8cAct19
And this is why law enforcement infiltrates protest movements.
Also can I just say, did it ever occur to anyone here why police are tough about crowd control of large protests? That it might be about keeping large protests from turning into mobs?
It's clear that there's going to be ongoing issues about the Capitol police's inability to splain things, however (as opposed to the DC police):
Can @RepTimRyan get answers: “The Capitol Police did not respond to multiple requests for comment Wednesday about its staffing, preparedness or handling of the attack on the Capitol, including whether its officers detained any of the rioters.” https://t.co/IdEMiqAxGp
Capitol police obviously made no plans to protect-only 2 guys at this gate:
WHOA—The US Capitol siege today started at this exact moment — when the Capitol police were completely caught off guard when rioters stormed the fence and overran them. Where was the backup? Why wasn’t the National Guard pre-stationed there? So angry. pic.twitter.com/rQ2UT4BZTj
It is important to dispel the myth that "they opened the gates" to let in everyone because they were white right wing people. One can still make presumptions of racism but if one is doing it, the blame should then go higher up. The Capitol hill police grunts at duty were simply overwhelmed, it's just that simple. They pushed back once they got reinforcements that they called for, They couldn't respond more violently even if they wanted to until they had more force.
If there were "racist" decisions, it would be because higher ups did not plan for problems with sufficient forces because they presumed that the "Stop the Steal" attendees would be pro-law-and-order and pro-police and therefore not as much force would be needed as with a protest with the intent to "defund police", a protest than in itself is meant to challenge police! So it was not exactly a stupid presumption, it was just wrong. They can be violent, and they are not necessarily pro-police! Both right and left make this mistake. A lot of right-wing extremists are not pro-police or pro-authority but are actually interested in overthrow of police as well!
Off topic. I agree with moat's comment on best use of the word, "coup" on another thread and will throw out something about word usage here. If my preferred definition of the word, myth" determined its usage, it would not be used as a synonym for "false" and certainly not relating to something that just happened..
The meaning of the word "myth" changed from implying a true tale to stating a falsehood because preferred definitions changed. At some point the preferred definition was accepted by many and defined the word.
Black went from defining a color or mood to include describing a subset of the population. That change happened in the mid-1960s. Definitions are not static.
"I am calling for the resignation of the chief of the Capitol police and I have received notice that Mr. Irving will be submitting his resignation," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said. https://t.co/bg9xAO8VKZ
Why do strawmen always take the brunt of the criticism? Not everyone has steely resolve, but there are times when flexibility comes in handy. But still, I've noticed despite technicalities they largely come across as white. Should strawmen be refunded? That's worth a Medium article.
NBC News: 2 buildings on Capitol Hill, one a part of the Library of Congress and the other Cannon House Office Building have been evacuated as protestors engage in violent clashes with police.
The FBI is setting up a website to collect evidence & tips about the violent rioting at the US Capitol today. FBI urges anyone who witnessed unlawful violent actions to submit tips at https://t.co/nN0ao9O6ib. Agents looking for videos or photos to help identify federal crimes.
Between 6000-6200 National Guard troops from Pennsylvania, NJ, NY, Delaware, MD and VA will stage outside the DC area in case they are needed in addition to the 1100 DC National Guard who staged at DC Armory tonight, a senior US official tells me.
Very good footage from alongside those that got inside the Capitol. Makes clear they were mostly just a very angry mob, very angry at Congress:
This @itvnews report shows some shocking scenes from inside the Capitol - haven’t seen this footage on any American news network pic.twitter.com/bZoZxg3Dhp
A lot of other videos went for the dramatic, the violent and the weirdos. This shows the main mob that entered after the violent broke in.
This reminds of how so many at TPMCafe thought it was real cool to add a pitchfork to their avatar in 2008, thinking a angry populist mob running around with pitchforks was a waay inspiring thought. I didn't say anything because some were people I liked and mostly agreed with. But I was actually very horrified. Didn't think it cute at all. Not going to keep quiet anymore, I don't like it from lefties and I don't like it from righties. I knew populism is nothing to admire from undergrad studies of history and certainly NOT pitchfork yielding mobs!
Actually I now think street protesting in general, even peaceful, is stupid and mostly counterproductive in this day and age of the internet, unless you can do it in a highly disciplined way like this. Most people don't like it, they don't care what your grievance is, it's arrogantly shoving your grievance in their face, i.e. maybe they have even more problems than you do, maybe someone close to them is dying and you are fucking tying the traffic up
I think you're over reacting and misunderstanding the pitchforks at TPM. It was just a symbolic gesture of anger. Nothing followed it. No one suggested we storm the WH or capitol and if any one tried to plan such I think most would have spoken out against it. I don't see anything wrong with the use of symbols to express emotional states.
It's just that "mob justice" is one of the most horrifying things human beings can do. The stuff of lynchings and horror movies, basically wishing for "The Lord of the Flies" to become reality. I'm pretty leniant about black humor, even Holocaust jokes, but it's really hard for me to find any redeeming grace in being so out of control of one's emotions that one proudly endorses fantasizing mob justice, over a period of time, yet, not just a momentary thing. Just offensive and made me not trust those people, seriously bad judgment indicated.
The authorities in Washington D.C. said that they had arrested at least 52 people for a range of offenses as of late Wednesday night, after a day of mayhem that engulfed the Capitol and resulted in the death of at least one woman. https://t.co/EXGnDbpYMg
“The air was cold and charged with something I had felt before—but in Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo, never in America. Sirens raged and occasionally a blaster pistol went off.” https://t.co/degFw7N0zR
I'm not going to retweet the video, but the woman shot and killed seems to have been shot by the Secret Service after breaking into the Capitol and then trying to smash through a locked doorway to get to a hallway where the Vice President was. She received verbal warnings.
One interesting aside, the infamous "Trump Track down" episode from the 1950s actually ended exactly like this, with a mob whipped in to a frenzy by another Trump forming a mob and looting a bank. It's as if Trump had been well aware of all the media adaptations of himself and his father and wanted to make a real life show of them as president.
by OrionXP (not verified) on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 7:20pm
Vox attempts a "what happened" splainer:
On the show today, we're going to try to understand how the White House is currently an impenetrable fortress, but the Capitol was left open to descend into chaos on Wednesday. https://t.co/Db9xACgeeJ
JUST IN: A US Capitol Police officer has died from events stemming from Wednesday's riot at the Capitol, three sources confirmed https://t.co/seKwMHxKNo
It appears that what happened is that the police union head who was informed announced the death to the media while the hospital was still waiting for the family to arrive before they pulled the plug
see the correction here at local channel 9, they changed it to his headline at the link
US Capitol Police officer on life support, suffered stroke following riots, union chair says
The union chairman originally told WUSA9 that the officer had passed away, but is now saying he's on life support until his family can arrive
instead of the original one here
A 40-year-old police officer has died following yesterday’s protests after suffering a stroke. This brings the death toll to five.https://t.co/xBrlr9r0I3
A US Capitol Police officer has died from events stemming from yesterday’s riots at the Capitol, three sources confirm to CNN. pic.twitter.com/S0XJMwEn5Q
Image of Mayor Bowser's Jan. 5 letter addressed to the Atty. Gen., the Sec. of the Army, and the acting D.O.D. basically saying that they can handle their areas, verifying that she hasn't asked for extra help (and would hope they don't send "extra personnel" unasked like happened before?):
This could be the reason for the conflicting behavior among Capitol Hill cops! If they were basically infiltrated throughout with Trump supporters who knew each other as Trump supporters, when the off duty Trump supporters came to the Capitol from the rally, they would know which were "friendlies" to approach to get in, and stay away from the honorable cops who took their jobs seriously.
Beginning excerpt (stopping at the first video-which I don't know how to copy-that is pretty shocking in showing al large gaggle of police clearly in a fucking panic,struggling to put up a barricade after the fact while a large group of men try to prevent them from doing, with the mist of tear gas still in the air, people in front still tearing up)
Six days before a raucous rally of President Trump’s supporters in Washington, Representative Maxine Waters anxiously grilled the chief of the Capitol Police about his preparations for various scenarios: Were the rooftops secured? Would streets be blocked off? Did he know that violent groups like the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers were vowing to stir up chaos?
Ms. Waters, a California Democrat, said each of her concerns was met with a similar response from Chief Steven Sund during their hourlong call: “He assured me that they have everything under control, that they were on top of everything.”
They weren’t. Instead an angry mob of pro-Trump extremists swarmed the barricades around the Capitol on Wednesday, spraying chemical irritants and wielding lead pipes, injuring more than 50 officers. They battered doors, broke windows and scaled the walls, rampaging through the building as congressional leaders made desperate calls for help.
The Capitol Police seemed to offer little resistance and arrested only 14 people, making it much more difficult to find and charge the rioters, according to a law enforcement official involved in coordinating the response.
[....] Policing experts noted the absence of crowd-control tools such as mounted officers, police dogs or a heavily manned perimeter.
Pentagon officials said Thursday that the Capitol Police had turned down an offer for additional National Guard troops before Wednesday’s storming of the Capitol, and two law enforcement officials said they had initially rebuffed help from the F.B.I. as the mob descended.
“How they were not ready for this today, I have no idea,” said Charles Ramsey, a former D.C. police chief. “They were overwhelmed; they did not have the resources. You have to be able to protect the Capitol.”
But others in law enforcement insisted that the president’s encouragement of the mob could not have been anticipated.
“No one expected the president to say, ‘Hey guys, let’s all go down to the Capitol and show them who’s boss,’” said Jose Cervino, who worked for the department for 14 years and helped plan security for large events and protests. “That is a completely different thing that no one’s ever planned or prepared for. How could you?” [....]
almost starting to look like this is going to be another 9/11 Truth Commission deal, you've got all these different agencies competing to blame the other guy...
The FBI has shared a photo of the person responsible for placing the suspected explosive devices outside the Republican National Committee and Democratic National Committee on Wednesday, prior to the U.S. Capitol protests. https://t.co/7LqKrphqfo
Comments
And this is why law enforcement infiltrates protest movements.
Also can I just say, did it ever occur to anyone here why police are tough about crowd control of large protests? That it might be about keeping large protests from turning into mobs?
by artappraiser on Wed, 01/06/2021 - 11:41pm
summary from just posted on the Capitol protest thread
by artappraiser on Wed, 01/06/2021 - 11:49pm
It's clear that there's going to be ongoing issues about the Capitol police's inability to splain things, however (as opposed to the DC police):
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 12:15am
Capitol police obviously made no plans to protect-only 2 guys at this gate:
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 2:32am
It is important to dispel the myth that "they opened the gates" to let in everyone because they were white right wing people. One can still make presumptions of racism but if one is doing it, the blame should then go higher up. The Capitol hill police grunts at duty were simply overwhelmed, it's just that simple. They pushed back once they got reinforcements that they called for, They couldn't respond more violently even if they wanted to until they had more force.
If there were "racist" decisions, it would be because higher ups did not plan for problems with sufficient forces because they presumed that the "Stop the Steal" attendees would be pro-law-and-order and pro-police and therefore not as much force would be needed as with a protest with the intent to "defund police", a protest than in itself is meant to challenge police! So it was not exactly a stupid presumption, it was just wrong. They can be violent, and they are not necessarily pro-police! Both right and left make this mistake. A lot of right-wing extremists are not pro-police or pro-authority but are actually interested in overthrow of police as well!
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 2:41pm
Off topic. I agree with moat's comment on best use of the word, "coup" on another thread and will throw out something about word usage here. If my preferred definition of the word, myth" determined its usage, it would not be used as a synonym for "false" and certainly not relating to something that just happened..
by A Guy Called LULU on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 4:17pm
Let me just say that I don't think it's really off-topic at all.
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 4:38pm
The meaning of the word "myth" changed from implying a true tale to stating a falsehood because preferred definitions changed. At some point the preferred definition was accepted by many and defined the word.
Black went from defining a color or mood to include describing a subset of the population. That change happened in the mid-1960s. Definitions are not static.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 5:15pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 3:56pm
Schumer following suit and sacking top Senate Security official:
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 4:59pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 4:13pm
Why do strawmen always take the brunt of the criticism? Not everyone has steely resolve, but there are times when flexibility comes in handy. But still, I've noticed despite technicalities they largely come across as white. Should strawmen be refunded? That's worth a Medium article.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 4:49pm
a reminder:
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 12:28am
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 12:39am
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 12:45am
Very good footage from alongside those that got inside the Capitol. Makes clear they were mostly just a very angry mob, very angry at Congress:
A lot of other videos went for the dramatic, the violent and the weirdos. This shows the main mob that entered after the violent broke in.
This reminds of how so many at TPMCafe thought it was real cool to add a pitchfork to their avatar in 2008, thinking a angry populist mob running around with pitchforks was a waay inspiring thought. I didn't say anything because some were people I liked and mostly agreed with. But I was actually very horrified. Didn't think it cute at all. Not going to keep quiet anymore, I don't like it from lefties and I don't like it from righties. I knew populism is nothing to admire from undergrad studies of history and certainly NOT pitchfork yielding mobs!
Actually I now think street protesting in general, even peaceful, is stupid and mostly counterproductive in this day and age of the internet, unless you can do it in a highly disciplined way like this. Most people don't like it, they don't care what your grievance is, it's arrogantly shoving your grievance in their face, i.e. maybe they have even more problems than you do, maybe someone close to them is dying and you are fucking tying the traffic up
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 1:31am
I think you're over reacting and misunderstanding the pitchforks at TPM. It was just a symbolic gesture of anger. Nothing followed it. No one suggested we storm the WH or capitol and if any one tried to plan such I think most would have spoken out against it. I don't see anything wrong with the use of symbols to express emotional states.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 1:34am
It's just that "mob justice" is one of the most horrifying things human beings can do. The stuff of lynchings and horror movies, basically wishing for "The Lord of the Flies" to become reality. I'm pretty leniant about black humor, even Holocaust jokes, but it's really hard for me to find any redeeming grace in being so out of control of one's emotions that one proudly endorses fantasizing mob justice, over a period of time, yet, not just a momentary thing. Just offensive and made me not trust those people, seriously bad judgment indicated.
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 7:33pm
more on the arrests:
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 1:36am
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 4:19pm
Maybe we are not as different from those places as we think.
by OrionXP (not verified) on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 7:22pm
We're never but a few limbs back in the trees whatever we do.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 8:55pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 5:01pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 5:13pm
One interesting aside, the infamous "Trump Track down" episode from the 1950s actually ended exactly like this, with a mob whipped in to a frenzy by another Trump forming a mob and looting a bank. It's as if Trump had been well aware of all the media adaptations of himself and his father and wanted to make a real life show of them as president.
by OrionXP (not verified) on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 7:20pm
Vox attempts a "what happened" splainer:
edit to add addendum:
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 8:31pm
the injured Capitol police officer has died:
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 8:14pm
Capitol Police has said no police died.
by Orion on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 8:32pm
It appears that what happened is that the police union head who was informed announced the death to the media while the hospital was still waiting for the family to arrive before they pulled the plug
see the correction here at local channel 9, they changed it to his headline at the link
US Capitol Police officer on life support, suffered stroke following riots, union chair says
The union chairman originally told WUSA9 that the officer had passed away, but is now saying he's on life support until his family can arrive
instead of the original one here
I saw another journo tweet that correction but I can't find it now
but here's NYTimes in addition to CNN
CNN said they had 3 sources:
Unless he ends up like Karen Ann Quinlan, he's gone.
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 8:58pm
Image of Mayor Bowser's Jan. 5 letter addressed to the Atty. Gen., the Sec. of the Army, and the acting D.O.D. basically saying that they can handle their areas, verifying that she hasn't asked for extra help (and would hope they don't send "extra personnel" unasked like happened before?):
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 8:40pm
Inauguration planners reassessing security after Capitol siege
Inaugural officials still plan to hold Biden's swearing-in ceremony at the Capitol on Jan. 20.
@ Politico.com, Jan. 7, 8:41pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 9:08pm
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 10:18pm
DC police's Jan. 7 "Unrest/arrest" report (includes a suprising "56 officers injured")
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 10:58pm
Natasha Bertrand's Politico article has possible big sleeper paragraph explaining some of the mysteries:
This could be the reason for the conflicting behavior among Capitol Hill cops! If they were basically infiltrated throughout with Trump supporters who knew each other as Trump supporters, when the off duty Trump supporters came to the Capitol from the rally, they would know which were "friendlies" to approach to get in, and stay away from the honorable cops who took their jobs seriously.
would really be a Serpico kind of story....
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 11:09pm
moved to FBI thread
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 11:21pm
New NYTimes, 4 reporters on it:
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/07/2021 - 11:50pm
Beginning excerpt (stopping at the first video-which I don't know how to copy-that is pretty shocking in showing al large gaggle of police clearly in a fucking panic, struggling to put up a barricade after the fact while a large group of men try to prevent them from doing, with the mist of tear gas still in the air, people in front still tearing up)
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/08/2021 - 12:14am
unbelievable amount of conflicting stories already, here's another,
almost starting to look like this is going to be another 9/11 Truth Commission deal, you've got all these different agencies competing to blame the other guy...
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/08/2021 - 12:36am
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/08/2021 - 12:47am
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/08/2021 - 1:15am