MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Hits of the Day
Obama tapped in 2004
By PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:45pm |So what did they get on Obama and does it change his behavior?
But no need to worry about the NSA - only trained professionals.
Would be a nice cache of phone calls & emails for his presidential library come 2017. The transparency President, 1st one officially bugged.
URL:
http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/06/21/former-intelligence-analyst-obama-was-wiretapped-by-nsa-in-2004/
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Comments
I thought for a brief few minutes that this might be important news. Then I saw this:
Obviously Tice and anyone listening to him are conspiracy theorists who therefore have zero credibility. It is one thing to say that the government has broken a law, quite another to suggest that they did so with a less than benign purpose.
I 'hote has a comment on government conspiracies banking off of Michael Hastings's death that I think makes good sense.
http://lhote.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-credulity-divide.html
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 06/21/2013 - 1:14pm
Yes, pretty awful when they cast aspersions on our dedicated public servants. The hours they spend bent over a hot intelligence stove cooking up new concoctions... all for our well-being.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 06/21/2013 - 2:33pm
The other side of the argument is that we have been down conspiracy row with Vince Foster's death and Hillary. ACORN was destroyed by targeted disinformation. Shirley Sherrod was attacked. A nonexistent Benghazi coverup dominated the news. Issa is still insisting the WH directed Nixonian style IRS attacks.
If the story is that Obama was wire tapped in 2004, compromised and now supports wiretapping everybody, should we at least try to get some supportive evidence?
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/21/2013 - 2:48pm
Get some evidence? Not about our side, not if they want it kept secret. Just bow politely, smile approvingly, and say, "That's your story and I'm sticking to it".
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 06/21/2013 - 3:05pm
As I read the new Guardian releases, it looks like there are restrictions in place and warrants required. The fact that warrants are currently required is buried in the article. The Obama tap was in 2004. Are the same abuses continuing?
Large reform of intelligence oversight looks pretty much hopeless. If Congress is a factor.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/21/2013 - 4:02pm
Get some evidence? I find that so amusing. Its a secret government program. If someone leaks the evidence, the same people who are shouting for evidence now will be shouting, thief, thief, he stole those government documents. He's a traitor, I hope he rots in jail.
Its a catch-22.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 06/21/2013 - 5:05pm
So let's just pout.
I think there have been different practices under different administrations. I do think more restrictions were put in place under Obama. I don't think stating that fact is outrageous. Congress has willingly put restrictions on its own oversight as I noted in a link above. There will be no Church commission because Congress can't even pass a farm bill, or stop voting to outlaw Obamacare. The only solution is the courts and SCOTUS just said it was okay to get DNA from people charged (not convicted) with a crime. The public is not going to revolt because they are being monitored.
I'm asking if the listening in on military families continues. Were Romney and Ryan monitored like Obama and Clinton? I'm noting that Congress is dysfunctional and won't charge Clapper with perjury. I note that the courts are our last resort for a decisions out privacy but the interpretation of our rights by the current SCOTUS is not a slam dunk for freedom.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/21/2013 - 5:48pm
So let's just pout.
No thanks. You of course are welcome to pout if you want. Like I said I find it amusing. But that's because I'm glad Snowden stole the documents.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 06/21/2013 - 7:07pm
At the end of the day, if the courts do nothing. things will remain as they are. I simply cut to the chase. Most people are not shocked that monitoring is occurring because they think they are being attacked by foreign entities. I had a business contact who had his account attacked. I received a frantic email telling me that he needed money because he was trapped in Manila after having his wallet and credit card stolen and could not check out of his hotel. His account was hacked. I ran a virus sweeped, but it is possible I got hacked as well although I opened the message on my iPhone and not my PC, I hope I'm okay.
To grab the public's attention, Snowden needed to have evidence of an individual targeted by NSA who suffered direct harm. People do not think their email accounts are secure. People are not shocked that the US spies on the electronic data of foreign countries.
Hong Kong is lumped in with China in the public mind. While this may seem ridiculous to some, it is not unreasonable to think that mainland China would be eager to share in the educational resources of Hong Kong. Consider medicine, for example, many Chinese medical schools in China are not state of the art. It makes sense to have interactions between mainland China medical students and residents and their counterparts in Hong Kong.
The University of Hong Kong medical school trains students from mainland China. The language spoken in the research labs is becoming mainland China Mandarin rather than the Cantonese of Hong Kong. If there is mainland Chinese involvement in other areas of Hong Kong, if certain that the NSA snoops.
I see the NSA data mining and metadata searches as part of a continuum and yes that includes drones. We are going to be left to the courts to decide where privacy lies.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 06/21/2013 - 7:44pm
This is an unsatisfying article. It doesn't say exactly who ordered the tapping or provide context for why.
Obama has out of country relatives, so those calls would be up for collection under the rules as we understand them. Is Tice saying that they were upgraded to actual listening-in/analysis status? Are the phones of all candidates tapped to screen out harrassers?
One unrelated question that occurs to me: if you get a call from a call center in Pakistan regarding your computer or something, does that count as an out-of-country call?????
by erica20 on Fri, 06/21/2013 - 6:11pm
Hee hee hee - "Obama has out of country relatives, so those calls would be up for collection under the rules as we understand them." Well there you have it - is there anyone in Obama's family that would make it worth collecting his calls?
"Are the phones of all candidates tapped to screen out harrassers?" - uh really? so Nixon didn't have to bug the Watergate - he could have done it legally to screen out harassers?
While the article may be lacking in detail, this is all secret, and now the AP reports that their government sources no longer want to talk because this Administration tapped the calls of 100 reporters. Any details people give will likely get them either thrown in jail, or get them to spend $100K on lawyers to try to defend themselves. That last part is the scariest - if you're on the edge of bankruptcy, the government can get you to plead and inform and do most anything. Jail time's just a cherry on top.
And yes, if you get any call from Pakistan you're on a surveillance list immediately.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 06/22/2013 - 1:11am
Dude, I don't make the rules, I'm just trying to figure out which ones may have been applied, if any were. God and the devil are both in the details when it comes to this kind of stuff--you have to know what people said they were doing in order to figure out whether they were really doing that, or pretending to do it while actually trying to do something else.
Is your irony hat at the cleaners, or something? ;^)
by erica20 on Sat, 06/22/2013 - 2:35am
Obviously sent it out to be pressed rather than ironied. Will come out in the wash. Solly no starch, clam bake flyday , as Mr. Burroughs used to say.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/23/2013 - 10:30am