The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age
    Wattree's picture

    Let Us Use Trayvon’s Death to Breathe Life Back Into America

    By Wattree on Sun, 07/14/2013 - 2:20pm |

    Many bigots in this country are giddy with delight over what they view as a victory for bigotry in the George Zimmerman verdict. But since scientific studies have shown that racist attitudes have a positive correlation with gross ignorance (http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism...), many of them are probably not familiar with the concept of "unintended consequences?"

    So while bigots may think that they’ve won a victory in the Zimmerman verdict, they also thought they won a victory with the murder of Emmett Till, the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church, and the arrest of Rosa Parks, that initiated the Civil Rights Movement. So this unconscionable verdict just might be exactly what was needed to awaken a sleeping giant, those Black, White, and various other Americans of good conscious who have been in denial about what's been taking place in this country over the past 30 years.

    .
    Admittedly, this writer is not one to be found sitting up in church every Sunday - while, ironically, many of those applauding this verdict are - we do recognize that there is much wisdom to be found in the Bible, and the Bible does say in effect, that "God works in mysterious ways." So what we might have just witnessed in this verdict is the dying gasp of Jim Crow.
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    There’s been a raging debate going on in this country every since President Obama was elected as to whether or not his election signaled a "post-racial" America. Some believe that it does, by mere virtue of the fact that enough White people came out to vote for this Black man to elect him President of the United States in the first place. Others argue that the election of Barack Obama was just an illusionary ploy to silence the Black community’s complaints over racism in America.
    .
    I take the position that we are in both the best of times, and the worst of times. President Obama’s election demonstrates without a doubt that racism among the vast majority of Americans is nowhere close to what it was in the past, but on the other hand, those who are determined to "conserve" America’s racist tradition are both more vehement and powerful - and much more dangerous - than ever.
    .
    It is these malevolent forces who are now celebrating the unconscionable verdict that freed the man who killed Trayvon Martin, an innocent kid whose only crime was having the audacity to think it was safe to go to the store to buy some candy in America. Thus, by finding the freeing of this child’s murderer a cause for celebration, these people have clearly defined themselves, and they’ve also defined the kind of America that they look forward to maintaining.
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    We shouldn't worry about the verdict, per se, because while Zimmerman supposedly "got off," he's far from free. He's gonna have to live the rest of his life like a mole. Imagine having to live your life worried about millions of potential hit men. So justice is prevailing. No more strolls on the beach, no leisurely walks in the park, no more going to the movies with family and friends, or to dinner or a night club for a quick drink - he can no longer do any of those things. He’s essentially in a prison without bars. He's not only going to have to look over his shoulder until the end of his days, but he’s also cursed his entire family.
    .
    So again, God, Nature, or the Universe - take your pick - works in mysterious ways. Thus, maybe like Emmett Till, Trayvon Martin’s only purpose in life was to serve as a catalyst to wake up America. 
    .
    History is filled with examples where the fate of ordinary individuals has changed the course of history. So while we mourn Trayvon and the gross injustice of his untimely death, we should also honor his death by using it to awaken the sleeping giant within our midst, that vast majority of Americans of good will, to crush those malevolent forces among us who threaten to destroy all of the poor and middle class in America in the very same way that their view of America snatched the life from Trayvon Martin.
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    So let us insure justice for Trayvon by shoving him down their throats, and making him the poster child for all injustice."TRAYVON LIVES!" should be our fight song to address all injustice towards the poor and middle class across this nation. In that way we can bring attention, and the passion of this moment, to the cause of the poor and middle class, and honor both Travyon, and his family, by using his untimely death to defeat all injustice, and to breathe life back into America.
    .
    Eric L. Wattree
    Http://wattree.blogspot.com
    [email protected]
    Citizens Against Reckless Middle-Class Abuse (CARMA)
    .
    Religious bigotry: It's not that I hate everyone who doesn't look, think, and act like me - it's just that God does.

    Comments

    Amen, Wattree.

    Nothing we do can give that boy back his life. But we should work to change the law to save other Trayvons.


    by Doctor Cleveland on Sun, 07/14/2013 - 3:38pm

    Thanks for sharing your perspective today.  I have to say that as a mostly white woman, I have lived in the south in Mississippi and experienced reverse racism going to a 98% percent black school for a year.  My own intelligence taught me to see their anger toward me as a white person as coming from emotional pain.   I was only 10 but it gave me a small taste of what racism is and what i can feel like to be hated simply for the color of your skin.

    I just saw an article titled 'America is in dire need of 'white, liberal, guilt'... and I think the point is that the outrage toward inequality and the fight to make things right must be fought just as hard by white Americans who believe in equality as those who are oppressed.  That was how slavery was ended.  It took white Americans of conscience to say 'no more'...

    I believe that the election of a black president was just another step toward demonstrating that we are 'capable' of evolving beyond racism, but not that we have arrived there by any means.  It shows what is possible... the potential of America to be all inclusive but we have a long way to grow before this is reality.

    I have a feeling the fervent push against women's rights is driven by ignorant fear of becoming a white minority in the American population and so there is a drive to push back against women's rights and to want control in order to create more white children...

    In the ignorant, old, white Americans this fear of becoming the minority along with old, ugly, ingrained strains of racism are driving their greed for power and control. 

    I don't see how we can stand for allowing a young black woman who fires a warning shot into the ceiling to serve 20 years in prison and allow a man who kills a young black man to be considered 'not guilty'.  That is a clear side by side portrait of injustice and racism.

    Those of us who have conscience and care must fight harder for the rights of 'all' Americans against this ignorant evil. 

    And we all must learn to vote in 'every' election.. not just presidential elections and do whatever it takes to preserve each individual's right to vote.

     


    by synchronicity on Sun, 07/14/2013 - 3:59pm

    Synchronicity,

    There’s no such thing as "reverse racism." Racism is racism, regardless to what direction it comes from. One group of ignorant people is just as bad as another. I’ve found that racism, and every other form of bigotry, requires only two elements rear it’s ugly head - ignorance, and opportunity, regardless to what group is involved.

    So no one group corners the market on either virtue or stupidity. Bigotry is nothing more than the tyranny of the majority, and all it takes to be initiated is any gathering of insecure individuals who feel the need to validate themselves by virtue of their majority rather than their personal development.

    In the bitterness and disappointment of times like these, when I’m tempted to say, "those racist dogs," I always think about those White people who volunteered to leave the comfort of their homes and families to fight, and in many cases, die to abolish slavery. Those are the forgotten Americans - the real Americans. But I never forget them, and I raised my son and daughter to never forget them. Because by always remembering such people, at times like these, it helps us to keep our struggle in perspective. The battle in this country is not about Black people against White people, it about good people against bad people.


    by Wattree on Sun, 07/14/2013 - 5:11pm

    I agree with you... it's just from my perspective the reverse of what racism usually looks like.  I think I understand what you are saying about bigotry but I don't see it today as tryanny of the majority... I see it as an ugliness that is not in the majority but highly motivated by greed and self interest to amass as much control and power as is possible to enforce their beliefs on others... but not a real majority.


    by synchronicity on Sun, 07/14/2013 - 10:33pm

    I agree, Synchronicity,

    When I said "the tyranny of the majority," I didn’t mean that racists ARE the majority. I meant that racist, or bigots of any stripe, are generally a PART of the majority. That’s what gives them the illusion of superiority. I was referring back to your experience in high school. You were singled out because being White in a school that had a Black majority made you an easy target. You were different, and to the ignorant, "different" and "inferior" are synonymous. That’s what I meant when I referred to the tyranny of the majority. That’s very different from saying that the majority are tyrants, although I can understand how the two concepts can be easily confused.

     

     

    by Wattree on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 12:17am

    I want to point out something that is being left out about what happened with her.  I live in the Tampa area and remember this trial.  She went to pick her son up and he would not let her have the child and threatened her.  She then went and got a gun from her car.  Fired the warning shot in the room where he was holding the son.  The shot went over them and into the ceiling.  She put her child in danger by firing the gun and that is why the sentence was rendered the way it was.  These 2 trials was not the same kind of hearings.  There were people who felt the sentence was too harsh because of the amount of abuse she had experienced from this man.


    by trkingmomoe on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 2:13am

    The shot didn't even go into the ceiling. It was head level. There were 2 kids in the room. She had trained at gun ranges all her life. The rest of the scene is dysfunctional, and I can't imagine why she should get 20 years vs. counseling and other help and maybe strict parole for 2-5 years.

    I.e. what's the point of our judicial system? It's 2013 and there's no real balance between incarceration and other alternatives. We're a pathetically simple race.


    by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 5:32am

    She also just had a baby a few days earlier.  Marissa Alexander is the face of abused women who the justice system fails.  Here is her face book page: https://www.facebook.com/FreeMarissaNow?fref=ts   Also Sync or anyone else would like to write her and tell her you are thinking about her.  The Address is: Marissa Alexander #2012033887;  500 East Adams St.;  Jacksonville, Florida 32202  If you send a self address stamped envelope she will write you back.   Don't forget you can write Rick Scott and express your feelings on these trials.  I told him in an email that I would not vote for him if he didn't release her.  Of coarse I would never vote for him anyways.  If you google you can find petitions to sign for her release. 


    by trkingmomoe on Tue, 07/16/2013 - 3:03am

    She got 20 years because of mandatory minimum laws. The judge said he wished he didn't have to do it but the law was clear and he had no discretion.The whole purpose of such laws is to take discretion out of the hands of those awful liberal judges who are soft on crime.


    by ocean-kat on Tue, 07/16/2013 - 3:29am

    No doubt a lot about this verdict has to do with what is wrong with Florida law. When self defense law is written so that the killer claiming self defense gets the benefit of being assumed right, the argument becomes easier to make.  Zimmerman's lawyers were also careful and clever to portray their client as something of a wuss, totally outclassed by his younger opponent.  The guy had his karate teacher come tell the court that he sucked.  As has been remarked here by others, the prosecutors probably could have gotten somewhere by not giving the jury a choice between murder and manslaughter and just going to manslaughter.  The prosecutors maybe tried to expand the local definition of murder and the jury didn't buy it.  Whatever.

    As Wattree says, whether or not the prosecutors messed up or Florida law is messed up, there are certainly some very happy racists out there today who take glee in Zimmerman getting away with it.

    But there's something here, too, that is somewhat related to racism but isn't quite.  It's a kind of cult of the self deputized individual, acting alone on the assumption that the government or authorities can't or won't do their jobs.  It applies, oddly enough, to Zimmerman (who I do not appreciate) and Snowden (who I do).  It is a lurch towards government by individual action.  It's the impulse that says, "I know better."

    We're going to get more and more of this as time goes on, as technology progresses and as weapons become ever cheaper and more available.  Our national conversation is, every day, becoming a more individual one.


    by Michael Maiello on Sun, 07/14/2013 - 4:48pm

    I completely agree, Michael - and that growing disdain for government is a very dangerous trend.  I have mixed emotions about Snowden. First, because I'm not privy to all of the information, so I'm not sure whether or not that information was alarming enough to justify what he's done. But in general - and here, I'm speaking as the father of a federal agent - I don't think one man should take it upon himself to assume he knows what's in the best interest of 330 million Americans. He may have taken the sliver of information that he's obtained out of context, and therefore, may not understand the rationale behind a given action that's being taken. For all he knows, he may be in possession of targeted disinformation that wasn't meant to be broadly disseminated.  


    by Wattree on Tue, 07/16/2013 - 3:51am

    Of course the defense had to make the jury believe Zimmerman was a wuss, just as much as the prosecution wanted everyone to believe, Martin was just an innocent babe, who never did nothing wrong, never had any fights, never hung out with bad associates. Or that tattoos on a 16 year old could be construed  as  emblematic or  expressions of someone hanging out with the hood?  I personally didn't buy or appreciate the prosecutions attempt, at blocking discovery, that Martin was not a choir boy and may have had a propensity towards aggressive behavior. Absent the blocked discovery, the prosecution tried to gain an undue advantage.    The public is left only with the image of Saint Martin, was murdered. ........    You find fault with someone, who unlike some in New York, who were known to ignore  others scream out, as they are being victimized and to shut out the noise, the apathetic just close their windows.....  Whatever Zimmermans faults, his heart told him to be involved and look out for his neighbors, he probably knowing there would be those who would tell him to be as apathetic and mind his own business and that he wasn't his neighbors keeper. HOW MANY ATTENDED THE HOA  MEETINGS TO DISCUSS THE NEIGHBOR HOOD WATCH ACTIVITIES?    Zimmerman was assaulted by a teen, who just happened to be a young african AMERICAN. If Zimmerman had been black, I doubt there would have been a trial, but because Zimmerman is considered white, the the provacatuers see  RACE as the issue. The Majority of AMERICANS are sick and tired of those with chips on their shoulders, looking to divide AMERICA.  


    by Resistance on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 2:09pm

    Note: the Kitty Genovese case is a major myth. People didn't know she was hurt - they were in an apartment building above a typically noisy & problematic bar, the few who could see anything likely thought she got away and the problem solved - only the guy came back and found her around the back of the apartment building.

    But it's symptomatic - we keep repeating "facts" that have been disproved time and again.


    by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 2:30pm

    I was thinking about the case of Sandra Zahler.


    by Resistance on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 3:49pm

    Resistance, I just don't know what you want from this.  Zimmerman went out armed to ask strangers what they were doing and where they were going and then decided to follow them around if he was not satisfied with their answers.  He called the cops on this kid.  Why?  Because he was a stranger?  What if the cops had shown up?  They were supposed to hassle the kid at Zimmerman's request?  Isn't using the police to harass people kind of cruddy behavior?

    Trayvon Martin doesn't need to be a saint to be left alone to walk home with his candy and drink to watch a basketball game. He doesn't need to be a saint to expect that the guy who he has told to go away and leave him alone might stop following him.  It would not have made the news but also would not have been right is Trayvon had been stopped and further questioned by the police just for walking around.

    I don't remember if it was you or Peracles or both who argued that Trayvon, rather than confronting Zimmerman, should have run home and called the police.  This seems akin to saying that it's okay for Zimmerman, if he doesn't like somebody, to chase them off the streets.  I don't think that's okay.

     


    by Michael Maiello on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 3:43pm

    If Travon felt threatened HE should have dialed 911, instead of believing some  "old cracker" was following him. Shit happens and a person can argue his rights till they're dead right. Also if Zimmermans account was right and Travon circled his truck and acting like he had a weapon in his waist. Martin may not have been armed and only had the gun on the truck seat and accept for the fact, he may have thought the suspicious person had a gun because  he acted as though he did; Zimmerman grabbed his. When the operator asked which direction the suspicious (suspect) went, Zimmerman trying to be helpful to the police. Looked. Should he have said hell NO. Was he to assume, the suspect he had an eye on, would become his assailant?  He surely didn't confront the suspect at the club house and I suspect he had no intention to make contact on a sidewalk behind some houses. (Especially after Zimmerman had already called the police and he not knowing that they may already be, in the development) he surely wouldn't have pulled his gun out, so as to be seen by arriving Police and him waving a gun.  Zimmerman had to walk down the sidewalk to see whether the suspect went straight and did he turn left or right and on return to the TEE he got jumped; assaulted by the very suspect, he reported. It was Zimmerman, who throughout the whole event, cried out to the police originally, and later to his neighbors for help, because he was being assaulted by a stranger, someone who should have went straight home, minding his own business, instead of hiding behind someone's back porch, laying in wait, looking for an opportunity to attack.     The lesson to all children, all people, IF YOU HAVE A DOUBT AND YOU FEEL INSECURE AND YOU HAVE A CELL PHONE  DIAL 911   I believe after hearing Zimmerman's account, it went down, just as he said it did. I come to this conclusion; not because of bias or race, but because of the evidence. Just as Zimmerman, Travon  had a phone but unlike Zimmerman who called for police help, Travon instead thought, he didn't need the police, he could take care of the matter himself.  


    by Resistance on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 4:32pm

    Look at how you're telling this story, Resistance.  "The suspect," did this and "The suspect" did that.  There was no suspect!  There was no investigation!  There was no crime!  Zimmerman is not supposed to be saying who is and isn't a suspect and following them around.

    As for the exhortation for anyone feeling the slightest bit insecure to call the cops... why is it that a young black man might not think that dialing 911 is the best idea?  Besides, the fact that the cops might not be counted on to treat him well or take him seriously, his antagonist was still very close at hand.

     


    by Michael Maiello on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 4:34pm

    1) I find the terms interchangeable in this instance suspicious person or suspect. Everyone unknown is suspect in an area ravaged by crime. Maybe Zimmerman should have said to the Police, "There is an unfamiliar person in our housing project" but for the fact Zimmerman thought Travons actions aroused suspicion, that Travons actions  as seen by Zimmerman, he observed it appeared he was high on drugs. Had Zimmerman reported he thought he smelled MJ, the police would have responded to "suspects"  Zimmerman could have used the term unfamiliar and the dispatcher would have used "suspects" when sending a patrol car ...................  2) As for the second Paragraph, how many more excuses are to be afforded, to those looking for racism under every rock. First it was the original Police Chief, was replaced, because he must surely be a racist. Then it's a travesty of justice, to find Zimmerman NOT GUILTY , because surely they must be Racist too. Unless decisions or verdicts support their position, it must surely be Racism? 


    by Resistance on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 4:56pm

    How did Trayvon's actions arouse suspicions?  (Trayvon.  It's Trayvon.) When did George Zimmerman say Trayvon was high on drugs?

    There may be some question (but very little) about Zimmerman's racist motives, but there's no question about his actions that night.  He shot and killed a young black man he was told to stop following.  He shot and killed a young black man, even though neighborhood watchers are not supposed to carry guns.

    He killed Trayvon Martin.  You may believe Zimmerman's story but there are many of us who don't.  The sad fact is, a fine young man is dead because George Zimmerman built up his own suspicions about him and didn't heed warnings not to take matters into his own hands.

    Everything you've said here is speculation based on nothing you've heard but obviously everything you choose to believe.


    by Ramona on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 6:31pm

    1st off Zimmerman was not commanded to stop trying to observe where Martin  disappeared to.  he was told "We don't need you to do that"  Maybe Zimmerman believed it as though, "if if you do so, it'll greatly assist us in determining where are officer should meet you"?  Where  did it say neighborhood watchers are NOT supposed to carry a gun?  I believe Zimmerman had a lawfully State issued permit. ???? ..... I have no knowledge of whether Trayvon was a good or bad kid.......  The defense was never allowed to delve into that area.    From reports I heard he had trouble in school, he was known to be a great fighter, the prosecutor tried to keep his MJ use, from being brought up at trial. he may very well have been a good kid; but teens are charged everyday as adults, for felony charges.  Did Trayvon have a record you or anyone can base their opinion on about his character? Favorable or unfavorable?  It appears many want vengeance, instead of justice.


    by Resistance on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 7:32pm

    What was Zimmerman's record?


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 7:36pm

    How about physical altercation with a cop and a restraint order? Zimmerman was the thug.


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 7:41pm

    How convenient that you can peer into Zimmerman's character, but the defense was precluded, because Trayvon was a minor. Where is the justice in that regard, considering teens are not always so innocent and everyday many are charged as adults. the United Nation has even recognized that even 13 year olds are capable of murder. If Travon had been trying to get the gun from Zimmermans waist, in order to kill Zimmerman  as  Zimmerman had stated Trayvon had said  "You're going to die MF" it would have been Trayvon tweeting to his friends, another of his fight victories,  known to exist but were not allowed to be offered into evidence for the defense.  Ps give the citation and the circumstances of these alleged crimes and how were they adjudicated.


    by Resistance on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 8:06pm

    Uh.....You are the one who brought up Trayvon's school record and a history fights.You said that you " heard" these things. I supplied a link that reported Zimmerman's record.I was responding to your words, not what happened in court.


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 8:14pm

    I know what you were doing, you were smearing Zimmerman as many do,  but no one knows for sure, if Trayvon was really the Angel he was portrayed to be. The prosecution, in order to sway public opinion and a jury, for a sympathy vote. because they had nothing else, to satisfy a growing movement of Racists ... (Of course the prosecution lost, there were unsympathetic white woman on the jury?)  Would it have dampened your opinion of a minor if you had known that they smoked or  that they were involved in many altercations at school. Maybe a reputation as a trouble maker;  would you then have as much sympathy? We'll never know the complete record because the information was blocked from release. WHY? Because the image the prosecution wanted you and the Jury to see was biased. prejudicial to Zimmerman.     


    by Resistance on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 8:32pm

    Apparently you didn't watch the trial.  Otherwise you might have seen the defense attorney ask Trayvon's mother if it wasn't possible that Trayvon caused his own death. Fair game?

    And this from the volunteer coordinator at the Sanford, FL police department (where Zimmerman would have had his training): 

    In every presentation, “I go through what the rules and responsibilities are,” she said Thursday. The volunteers’ role, she said, is “being the eyes and ears” for the police, “not the vigilante.” Members of a neighborhood watch “are not supposed to confront anyone,” she said. “We get paid to get into harm’s way. You don’t do that. You just call them from the safety of your home or your vehicle.”

    Using a gun in the neighborhood watch role would be out of the question, she said in an interview.

    You said:   "Would it have dampened your opinion of a minor if you had known that they smoked or  that they were involved in many altercations at school. Maybe a reputation as a trouble maker;  would you then have as much sympathy?" 

    Are you kidding?  No, it wouldn't have dampened my opinion of a 17 year old kid who was minding his own business walking through a neighborhood complex but ends up shot dead.

    I have kids like that in my own family.  I'll bet you do, too.  If they were shot to death under similar circumstances would you think they were responsible for their own deaths?

    I honestly don't know where you're going with this but I hope it's not where it seems to be going.

     

     


    by Ramona on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 8:54pm

    Thanks for saving me from the need to respond. 


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 9:05pm

    Didn't mean to step on your toes here but Honest to God, I'm seeing red. . .


    by Ramona on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 9:17pm

    Where do you think it is going? or should I just drink the koolaid?     The defense wisely avoided pressing Trayvon' s mother, as pointed out in Mark O'Mara's  closing arguments..... You still assume Zimmerman looked to confront Trayvon, and that is your, biased opinion. Just because Zimmerman carried a lawfully concealed weapon, doesn't mean he was acting as a vigilante, he carried the concealed weapon as prescribed and allowed by law for self defense, and good thing to, when an assailant is trying to beat your head into the concrete, Paranoia?  Because  Zimmerman was trying to observe, you think that gives  Trayvon a reason or cause to assault someone? For looking funny or because he didn't like being observed, so sucker punch someone and slam their head into the concrete?  


    by Resistance on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 9:18pm

    Come on, Resistance, even you don't believe that shit.  You've taken on the role of instigator again and no amount of evidence to the contrary is going to sway you from the fun you have provoking.

    You're on your own.


    by Ramona on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 9:43pm

    I am defending the court and the jury and now I am accused of  provoking?. I watched intensely, this whole trial and had I been on the jury, I too would have acquitted G Zimmerman  I wanted a fair trial, I drew no conclusions, till after all the evidence and arguments were delivered.  I believed Zimmermans account and because  of that I give it much more weight, the trial absent all the racial overtones     The defense provided me the proof, to conclude his explanation of the events, that fateful night were to be taken as truth. Absent any evidence to the contrary, what other choice was there for decent folks, sitting on a jury, to conclude as I and other honest hearted people have. Self defense was reasonable, despite all the what if's. Even now the jurists, have to fear for their lives for accepting G Zimmermans explanation, because they doubted the prosecutions case, maybe ascertaining the prosecutions case rested upon sympathy.   Because these jurists dared to go against the grain, I hope I don't have to fear expulsion, for standing on the side of Court justice, instead of street justice from people looking to demonize and hang Zimmerman?  I recommend "Clear Eyes" for the red.


    by Resistance on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 10:12pm

    About Blatant Racism Disguised as an Honest Disagreement

    It is truly sad how many people try to disguise their racism as an honest disagreement. What do you think the chances are AGAINST Rush Limbaugh thinking that Zimmerman was guilty? If such incidents were merely an honest disagreement, why is it always so predictable what side of the disagreement you will ALWAYS find conservatives? In addition, the primary reason that they are on the side that they are is because, in this case, they're willing to take the murderer's word, and demonize the victim.

    I'd be willing to bet my home that if Zimmerman had been Black, and Trayvon had been White, most conservatives would be on the other side of this debate. So if you think that this is merely a simple disagreement, you're in denial. No? Name me just one time when Rush Limbaugh was on the side of Black people.

    Take your time and search. I'm very patient.



    by Wattree on Tue, 07/16/2013 - 3:55am

    I dont care what Rush believes or thinks. I have disliked him since he attacked Bill and Hillary, I disdain Fox news; so if you say THOSE conservatives, I can't disagree with your opinion,  because I don't know them and have no desire to be a ditto head.  


    by Resistance on Thu, 07/18/2013 - 7:40pm

    The more one sees the Right respond to a variety of issues, the more you realize how far apart your world view is from theirs. We see an unarmed Black teen doing things that teens of all stripes do who was gunned down. They see a thug put down like a mad dog. It is like they are devoid of passion and empathy.

    Watching them operate in a heavy-handed form on the abortion issue. What stands out to me is an unwillingness to accept any form of resistance. The Right complains about big government but is ready to support murder in the name of neighborhood security and vaginal probes in the name of the love for life. 

    I think that voters will encouraged to come out to voice their opposition to the rigidity of the Right. Changing the Stop and Frisk laws will be difficult.They have tasted blood with Trayvon and now feel emboldened to track down other "about to be criminals".

    Since we are under attack, we can be strong.We have no option.We will be attacked whether we remain silent or e resist. Despite the sadness,I sense a renewal of activity to come.


    by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/14/2013 - 5:11pm

    Wattree, you have been absolutely on fire here. I am really glad to share your thoughts - I can feel the emotional intensity and I very well understand it.

    I almost lost a friend over this. My friend grew up in a conservative environment - he kept saying stuff around this that just made me want to barf without even seeming to realize it.

    Like one of the commentators here, I also went to a mostly black school at a very young age. While I was there, in an effort to fit in, I bought the sneakers I saw kids wearing there. One black kid who was all tough shit in the school bashed me in the head with his backpack after school - apparently angry about my choice of footwear.

    I could have become racist there, right? Yet that never made sense. It still doesn't. The next year, that kid had been expelled and I continued to have alot of trouble there - the environment was so racially toxic that the white kids who were at the school were even worse. 

    I got really in to black culture after that and still am. I've been told by other white people that I "understand" it or that I "can" talk about it and seem legitimate - I don't know. I've dated more than a few black women and gotten the weird looks. I grew up not knowing my own father, having people look down on me for stuff I had nothing to do with and not being treated like a normal person - I understand what it feels like to feel second class.

    The mixed emotions always continued - I once visited a black relative and he seemed to look down on me while also being kind to me - a really bizarre mix of emotions that made me very uncomfortable. The indiscriminate anger from some black folks has come my way a few times and I have just backed off - knowing where it came from and knowing that it didn't have anything to do with me but more what I, being a white guy of Eastern Washington/South Carolina heritage, visually represented.

    I see much more wrong with white culture - there is a lack of self-awareness among many whites that I don't think minorities can even afford to have. Even if black folks do lash out, it's much more reactive. The hate on the white side is much stronger and much more methodical. There are segments on Fox News that are really intensely and methodically racist - segments about how black people are destroying the economy because of their consumption of expensive basketball shoes, that sort of thing. 

    One black friend of mine was murdered in a gangland shooting. The last time I talked to him, before he was killed, I tried to get him to add my sister on MySpace - obliviously thinking they might get along. My sister didn't accept the add and the next time I saw her she was talking about being "too white" and dropping "nigger" every other sentence - she seemed perplexed when I totally flipped out in anger about this, she thought I would understand her hate based on my middle school experiences. My sister fits in to the sick pattern that is in the white world a bit more - she talks racist every time I am around her. It's a huge part of her thought process. She is like that despite having grown up with as many black relatives as I did.

    Still, we actually are better than many parts of the world. Most racists in this country at least mask their prejudice and seem somewhat guilty about it. We have had black secretaries of state and a black president - under both political parties. In alot of Asia, diversity wouldn't even be considered - you would never see an outsider rise to significant power in Japan or China. Many Europeans still worry about Nazis or something like them coming back in to power - especially in tough times, people get really tribal and ugly.


    by Orion on Sun, 07/14/2013 - 11:07pm

    Orion, like I pointed out to Synchronicity above,

    "Racist, or bigots of any stripe, are generally a PART of the majority. That’s what gives them the illusion of superiority. You were singled out because being White in a school that had a Black majority made you an easy target. You were different, and to the ignorant, "different" and "inferior" are synonymous. That’s what I meant when I referred to the tyranny of the majority. But that’s very different from saying that the majority are tyrants."

    So Orion, what we have to keep in mind here is that we’re not dealing with the overall character of either Black people or White people. What we’re discussing here is good people as oppose to bad people, and there are plenty of both to go around in both races.

    Personally, I never allow myself to forget that since "God" made birds to fly, fish to swim, and man to think, the essence of my being is what I think, not what color "shirt" I was born in. So my true brother is not necessarily the person who looks like me, my true brother is the person who thinks like me - and that doesn’t always necessarily mean politically - I’m speaking in terms of character.

    When I was in the Marine Corps me and this "Southern Cracker" hated each other’s guts, because based on our respective backgrounds we’d made certain assumptions about one another. But when the chips were down Larry laid his life on the line to save my ass. Later, the 1st Sgt. said, "Everybody in the unit knows you think Wattree’s an asshole. Why did you risk your ass like that?" Larry looked up at the 1st Sgt. like he was shocked at the question and said, "Because he’s our asshole."

    That was a teaching moment for me, and we became best friends. When we got back to Camp Pendleton, within a month every MP in town knew us. We used to hit San Diego like we were invading Hanoi every weekend, and to this day, we curse each other out at least twice a week - and love it. Because while we connect the dots differently politically, we trust each others character and motives.


    by Wattree on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 1:11am

      I doubt any country today is handling race questions better than the United States. But in the past we had a special reputation for racial injustice and race hatred and some of that has stuck to us. And the Martin case shows that things aren't going that well.


    by Aaron Carine on Thu, 07/18/2013 - 10:01pm

    Beg to differ, but somehow I don't think in Germany they would hold sessions in the Bundestag with a majority ascribing all their problems to Turkish immigration and Turks living off welfare and make up special district rules to keep Turks from voting in such large numbers. Perhaps they'd do that for East Germans though...


    by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 07/19/2013 - 1:41am

    Zimmerman's attorney goes nuts claiming that Zimmerman would not have been charged if Zimmerman were Black. Zimmerman's brother tells Piers Morgan that Trayvon was a drug dealer and a gun- runner. The bad guys are celebrating their victory in front of the cameras.


    by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/14/2013 - 10:55pm

    Was Trayvon a drug dealer and a gun runner? If so, why wasn't this brought up at trial?  Honest hearted people know why.


    by Resistance on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 8:39pm

    Zimmerman's brother attempted to use the same slander against Martin. If you have some facts, post them.


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 9:04pm

    We are not allowed any facts, the record is sealed. Unless, Maybe someday one of his friends comes forward to dispel any myths?    


    by Resistance on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 9:50pm

    Enjoy the snipe hunt.


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 10:22pm

    For someone always crying for justice?  I am disgusted by those who allow bias and prejudice to cloud fairness; those who refuse to stand up against those who try to rig the system, as these Florida prosecutors tried. You stand on their side, because it favors YOUR  pre drawn conclusions, before all the facts were submitted and even after a jury deliberation, you still support vengeance against Zimmerman


    by Resistance on Mon, 07/15/2013 - 10:37pm

    Your mention of snipe hunt reminds me of why the IT Director for the State of  Florida was FIRED, because  he was a whistle blower. The director alleged, the State withheld pertinent information and when they did release it was adulterated evidence and was not delivered in a timely manner, an essential part of DUE PROCESS. Something the State wanted to deprive Zimmerman of . When the defense asked the judge, to sanction the State prosecutors, It appears the State told Zimmerman's defense team "Enjoy the Snipe hunt"    


    by Resistance on Tue, 07/16/2013 - 7:11pm

    And yet Zimmerman's brother seems to have managed to look at Trayvon's sealed record and you're not questioning that? You seem to believe everything that those supporting Zimmerman say and nothing that those supporting Trayvon say.

    Note that I've never attacked the jury, so don't try that line on me. I'm just pointing out that you have drunk your own particular flavor of Kool-aid, in that you're not even questioning where Zimmerman's brother's "facts" come from, considering that Trayvon's records are sealed.


    by Verified Atheist on Tue, 07/16/2013 - 12:07pm

    My position is to support the findings of the court and the trier of facts and to give more weight to the exonerated. It appears the problem presented to Zimmerman and any who support his claims, is that he will never be found "innocent", because the law didn't address that issue. it's just that there was reasonable doubt he committed 2nd degree or manslaughter. Not a decision acceptable, to those seeking vengeance, no matter the truth.


    by Resistance on Tue, 07/16/2013 - 1:43pm

    If only you actually understood what the findings of the court were.

    I hope you appreciate the irony of supporters of Zimmerman bemoaning the vigilante justice that he could potentially become a victim of. I do not wish for such vigilante justice, of course.


    by Verified Atheist on Tue, 07/16/2013 - 1:48pm

    Racists Convicted Trayvon of Not Being Able To Prove Why He Deserved to Live

    Zimmerman Supporters are suggesting that no one point out evidence of racism - whether that racism was intentional or not - while at the same time, accepting the fact that it goes without saying that because Trayvon was a young Black male that Zimmerman was justified in his assumption that he constituted a threat to the community. What is that if it isn’t racism?

    Clear Evidence of that is the fact that most Zimmerman supporters are accepting the murderer's version of events - a murderer, I might add, who has been caught in several inconsistencies. Why would they do that? If a guy is arrested for shooting someone in an alley, would they blindly accept the murderer’s word that the victim attacked him? If so, what's to prevent every murderer from claiming that he was being attacked. So if every murderer was treated with the same deference that George Zimmerman was treated, the only way to convict anyone of murder would be with an independent eye witness.

    We have no evidence to suggest that Trayvon did any of the things that Zimmerman claimed. Yet, Zimmerman supporters are claiming that we have to prove Zimmerman guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Well, it had been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman initiated a chain of events that ended in the death of an innocent kid. So it is up to Zimmerman to prove that there were mitigating circumstances that made the murder of an unarmed child justified. But instead, they convicted Trayvon - who was guilty of nothing more than going to the store - of not being able to prove he had a right to live. How is that not racism?

    http://www.thestate.com/2013/07/10/2856356/sc-supreme-court-stops-murder...


    by Wattree on Wed, 07/17/2013 - 8:43am

    The default position in the justice system is that Black males are a threat


    by rmrd0000 on Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:38am

    So ? Are you surprised the defense would have their own team of investigators looking into Trayvons past, but the discovery was not permitted to be entered as evidence?


    by Resistance on Tue, 07/16/2013 - 1:42pm

    I would be extremely surprised that they would be only ones making that discovery and that a gleeful Fox News, Red State, et al. wouldn't be sharing the evidence with anyone who would be willing to listen. Anyone not blinded by bias would be similarly skeptical.


    by Verified Atheist on Tue, 07/16/2013 - 1:46pm