The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age

    Thank you John Kerry

    By Flavius on Thu, 04/02/2015 - 10:25pm |

    Great.

    How can I be pleased  when I don't know what's in it? Easy.

    If there are things that need fixing we can start trying to fix them.As Tom Peters said a million years ago "Do it ,fix it."

    You can't fix a deal that hasn't been done.

    Comments

    Here's a memory. No charge.

    Almost 7 years ago I was shuffling up the gang plank on the early boat to Hyannis. As I got to the last turn I looked back over the line and easily picked out one  very tall guy shuffling along near the tail end.

    When Kerry got aboard , almost the last one,  his punishment was to sit opposite  me. I knew there was nothing he needed to hear from me and remained quiet. But the passengers on either side didn't. They had questions for him : "Will we be able to see the Kennedy Compound on our way in?"

    He assured them they would have that treat.

    Then they summoned their (nice) kids from elsewhere and there was lots of photo takings. If I didn't already approve of Kerry- which I did, and had since 1970- I would  have started that day: thinking " I like a Presidential candidate who carries his own bag onto the  ferry....And can point out the Kennedy Compound to the tourists".


    by Flavius on Thu, 04/02/2015 - 10:50pm

    I am missing nuance here.

    But damn, the 'thing' has not been 'finished', but in the middle of this negotiation, I am enthralled.

    Has peace been found?

    Has the world order been changed?

    I dunno.

    But, hell, it all looks promising to this idiot.

    'We' are in cahoots with Iran on at least one  front. You know, the enemy of my enemy is my 'friend'?

    This  entire process is amazing to this old bastard.

    And all these pundits scream with political intents in tact.

    That is all I got.

    But what the hell, the right wing of this country have no more access to info than me.


    by Richard Day on Thu, 04/02/2015 - 11:16pm

    Here is another take that seems to justify my conclusion:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2015/04/iranian_nuclear_deal_is_a_breakthrough_why_the_agreement_is_the_best_option.html

     

     


    by Richard Day on Fri, 04/03/2015 - 1:28am

    You're not missing anything.

    Whatever the details of the agreement in principle the one sentence summary is that we've decided that Iran isn't necessarily our enemy. Certainly the Iranian take over of our embassy was a hostile act. For another hostile act, ours, read "Countercoup" Kermit Roosevelt's self congratulatory description of how he managed the CIA's successful overthrow of Mossadech.

    What goes around, comes around.

    That doesn't mean the Iranians are nice guys. There's an interesting book  by two young journalists who went there just after Katami was elected to observe what they expected to be the process  of a democratic make over and instead watched the opposite. One nice touch: before murdering "enemies" of the regime the Iranian secret service  (Savak?) installs "bugs" in their bedroom so it can record the last screams of the victims to be played later for their political masters.

     


    by Flavius on Fri, 04/03/2015 - 7:33am

    Great Indeed!! One hundred and fifty-six reads as I comment and only DD responds so far. I understand that many reads are repeats, I account for several, but I would have expected more reaction from more Daggers interested enough to read about it even if not on the level or sharing the opinion of Iranians who are dancing in the streets after hearing that their country had reached a deal in which they gave up so much more than any other country has regarding nuclear development and interference with domestic affairs. My opinion is that both our countries and very possibly a great deal of the broader world have [possibly/probably] gained a great deal. 

     I am happy to give Kerry a great deal of credit and in that I include Obama in that praise for putting an apparently excellent team on the field. Looks like they hit a fourth down pass late in the game to move the ball to the middle of the field and that with continued ball control they may go on to score against strong defense [obstruction]. The game aint over but I like our chances. I will be watching until the end, one ay or another. Like TV sports, I don't watch unless I care who wins.


    by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 04/03/2015 - 12:45pm

    I think this all has to do with Easter Weekend.

    Nobody is reading me although I have had a slow month.

    This has little to do with Flavius or the subject matter.

    But here is an NYT link that presents the subject rather well:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/03/opinion/a-promising-nuclear-deal-with-iran.html?emc=edit_ty_20150403&nl=opinion&nlid=57476044

     


    by Richard Day on Fri, 04/03/2015 - 1:55pm

    I am sorry, I have been working on making Easter Candy.  I don't know enough yet about the agreement to comment on it. 


    by trkingmomoe on Fri, 04/03/2015 - 7:43pm

    I'm was tempted to write that not knowing enough about the subject sometimes  seems to be an incentive to comment. But having typed those words I realize that I was describing myself. At least in this case.  


    by Flavius on Fri, 04/03/2015 - 10:05pm

    Well, apparently he's quite the rock star in Switzerland!


    by barefooted on Fri, 04/03/2015 - 4:57pm

    Yeah this is sweet.

    I hope this ends up happy. It can never be happy for those who desire war, of course.

    I like Kerry.

    I always have.

    If this works out, Kerry will receive the prize and Obama will praise him for his award!


    by Richard Day on Fri, 04/03/2015 - 10:14pm

    a


    by Richard Day on Fri, 04/03/2015 - 10:15pm

    Why does Netanyahu keep pleading for Iran to stop saying they will 'wipe Israel off the map"? Why does Iran keep saying it?

    As a supporter of Israel but not so much Netanyahu, I am wondering what would be a better non-apocalyptic response to Iran on this?


    by NCD on Fri, 04/03/2015 - 11:09pm

    I have no special knowledge about Iran but FWIW ,here's what I think.

    I think that almost all the Iranians are  opposed to Israel ,some  so much they mean it when they say that Israel should be destroyed, others more passively , perhaps like most  non arab muslims say the Tunisians or Malaysians.Or  like  Native Americans who were mostly antagonistic to the US Government in 1890 but were valuable participants in WW2.

    Nothing is forever.

    Under the Shah, Iran had a positive relationship with Israel which worked to Israel's disadvantage since his regime was deservedly hated. because of the harsh tactics of his secret police. As were we for being correctly blamed for Kermit Roosevelt's fostering of the coup which overthrew Mossadech.

    I was surprised by Netanyahu's demand  we condition an agreement with Iran on its renouncing its position that Israel should be destroyed.I certainly believe he wants to create all possible obstacles to completing the agreement tentatively reached in Lausanne. But that request somewhat undercuts his position  up to now that the Iranians can't be trusted to honor any agreement.

     

     


    by Flavius on Sat, 04/04/2015 - 8:46am

    You can't fix a deal that hasn't been done.

    Heres the deal

    The fix is in,  the Great Satan (United States) has been fooled.

    Iranian Expansionist Supporters: "Hopefully the error on  the part of those seeking "peace in their time" wont be discovered, till after completion of the nuclear bomb and by the time they figure out verification was only a pipe dream to satisfy their desires, it'll be too late for them.

    This administration never learns 


    by Resistance on Sat, 04/04/2015 - 8:14pm

    Flavius,

    Hope you enjoyed the holiday and wanted to also let you know that I laughed when I read this because it's simplicity is pitch perfect.  I think the important point, regardless of whether one agrees or disagrees with the framework as we know it, is that there remains three months within which the parties can negotiate a deal.  Ultimately, even with conflicting interpretations of the framework, we can tell what the parties have and have not yet come to agreement on.  None of the issues, at this point, is too "technical" to resolve in three months -- the decisions to be made continue to be in large measure political ones.

    I also think that the president is doing the right thing by taking a political breath so to speak, and trying to convey to Israel and the Arab states that the U.S. will have their backs, etc.  The president needs to work with these opponents of the deal if the deal is going to work. 

    In short, personal feelings aside, as a practical matter, of the remaining options, proceeding with negotiations through the June deadline has the advantage of making sense.  What also makes sense is using that time prudently -- at home, abroad with our allies, and at the table.

    Bruce


    by Bruce Levine on Mon, 04/06/2015 - 8:59am

    I've been waiting to see your comment.

    Impossible to disagree.Mine  is summarized by a poster I've seen from time to time showing a basketball net with a message underneath saying  " You miss 100% of the shots you don't try".


    by Flavius on Mon, 04/06/2015 - 10:42am