Ramona's picture

    Politicians out of control on Guns: Never Forgive, Never Forget

     

    Yesterday 46 members of the Senate voted down a proposal that would have been a logical first step to gun control--universal background checks.  They were able to vote it down, even though 54 members voted for it because they rigged the way the votes count now.  Voting it down for no good reason is bad enough but they did it through cowardice, lies and cheats. The whole process was despicable, made even more so by the fact that it happened in the chambers where expectations of fairness and fidelity used to run quite high.

    These public servants ignored the wishes of at least 90% of Americans and caved, instead, to willful profit-oriented special interests.  They lied about the content of the bill and insured their success by forcing a 60-vote approval instead of a fairer, more honest majority vote.

    In a sane world, this would be enough to cause those who voted against the wishes of the people some actual discomfort, if not some actual punishment.  Our outrage (those of us who have sense enough to be outraged) comes today because we know nothing will happen to them.  They will go on for another day and another day after that making bad decisions that will affect all of us in one way or another, and all we can do is shout about it.
     


    We are outraged.  The parents and families of the Newtown School massacre are outraged.  Gabrielle Giffords is outraged. The president is outraged.  The Democrats (all but four senators) are outraged. Certain members of the press are outraged.  But our rage at these 46 members of the United States Senate who voted to keep guns out of our control is, in the end, no more than hot air.  Rage, like hot air, dissipates.  It weakens to anger, and anger, when it is not satisfied, weakens to a sigh.  A futile sigh. We are exhausted.  We inevitably leave it behind and go on.

    They get away with these insanely undemocratic actions once again because we have neither the authority nor the strength to stop them.  And they know this.

    The president gave a masterful speech yesterday, designed to both clarify his rage and to shame them for their actions.  They don't care.

    A portion of what the president said: 

    Families that know unspeakable grief summoned the courage to petition their elected leaders –- not just to honor the memory of their children, but to protect the lives of all our children.  And a few minutes ago, a minority in the United States Senate decided it wasn’t worth it.  They blocked common-sense gun reforms even while these families looked on from the Senate gallery.

    By now, it’s well known that 90 percent of the American people support universal background checks that make it harder for a dangerous person to buy a gun.  We’re talking about convicted felons, people convicted of domestic violence, people with a severe mental illness.  Ninety percent of Americans support that idea.  Most Americans think that’s already the law.

    And a few minutes ago, 90 percent of Democrats in the Senate just voted for that idea.  But it’s not going to happen because 90 percent of Republicans in the Senate just voted against that idea.
    A majority of senators voted “yes” to protecting more of our citizens with smarter background checks.  But by this continuing distortion of Senate rules, a minority was able to block it from moving forward.

    Gabrielle Giffords wrote an impassioned editorial in the New York Times yesterday, designed to show her rage and to shame those senators.  They don't care.

    From Gabby:

    Some of the senators who voted against the background-check amendments have met with grieving parents whose children were murdered at Sandy Hook, in Newtown. Some of the senators who voted no have also looked into my eyes as I talked about my experience being shot in the head at point-blank range in suburban Tucson two years ago, and expressed sympathy for the 18 other people shot besides me, 6 of whom died. These senators have heard from their constituents — who polls show overwhelmingly favored expanding background checks. And still these senators decided to do nothing. Shame on them.

    James Fallows wrote a great piece in the Atlantic yesterday called "For the Love of God, just call it a Filibuster".    They don't care. 

    1. Today a provision that would increase background checks for gun purchases was blocked in the Senate, even though consideration of the bill was supported by 54 senators representing states that make up (at quick estimate) at least 60 percent of the American population.
    2. The bill did not fail to "pass" the Senate, which according to Constitutional provisions and accepted practice for more than two centuries requires a simple majority, 51 votes. Even 50 votes should do it, since the vice president is constitutionally empowered to cast the tie-breaking and deciding vote, and Joe Biden would have voted yes.
    3. It failed because a 54-vote majority was not enough to break the threat of a filibuster, which (with some twists of labeling) was the real story of what happened with this bill. Breaking the filibuster would have required 60 votes.

    The Twitterverse clogged the place yesterday listing one by one the names of those senators who voted "no".  They don't care.

    Journalists, essayists, bloggers, and hundreds of thousands of enraged activists took to their preferred soapboxes and shouted out in anguished rage.  The senators ignored us all.  They don't care.

    They're counting on our inattention, our tendency to be distracted and manipulated, our refusal to believe our elected politicians could turn against us so cruelly, so blatantly, and so often.

    This is our chance to show them how much we care.  We can't forget.  We must not forgive.  We will not let them get away with this latest insult.  They should not be allowed to win again.  Not if we are who we think we are.

     

    (Cross-posted at Ramona's Voices)

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    Comments

    I don't think this issue is going away any time soon.  If no bill is passed, it will be a campaign issue.  It will be interesting to follow future polling on the Senators that voted no.  Some of them are up for relection.  Pro-regulation groups will probably keep the no vote in front of the Senators' voters eyes until the election.  It will be the kind of reminder that will make relection harder because a high majority wants regulations because they know this is a law and order and safety issue. 


    I have no idea what is going on in these Senators' minds.

    I am speechless!

    I do not understand 'their side' of the argument!

    I am lost!

    No kidding!

    4 dems back a cloture?

    I am lost with regard to the entire issue.

    Something is happening here and I sure the hell do not know what it is.

    What are the members of the minority getting at?

    There is something diabolical going on here.

    We do not have the facts.

    It cannot just be money because the NRA does not have this type of money.

    A million bucks here and a million bucks there mean nothing in today's dollars.

    I am lost on this one.

    Something else is at work here and I sure the hell we should know what it is.

    LaPierre is a Canadian for chrissakes!

    Maybe it is just the Defense folks who manufacture all the guns.

    West Virginia supposedly seceded from Virginia due to its actions prior to the Civil War. But the Hatfields and McCoys both sided with the Confederacy.

    The most vehement West Virginian concocted this legislation in favor of registration/background checks.

    I REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS VOTE!

    I have not read the entire file so to speak and neither have most Americans.

    I am not in love with conspiracy enthusiasts, but there is some conspiracy going on here.

    This makes no sense!


    Some of them are afraid of the crazy gun owners and others don't want the black president to sign anything into law to make the country understand he is irrelevant.


    Also, the politicians blocking this think that in modern-day Orwellian America, so long as they have the money and power to do so, they can talk their way around pretty much anything with the voters without breaking a sweat.  They think we are mostly sheep who, where we are even bothering to pay attention, are easily manipulated and misled.  Too often they have been right.  The only question left as far as I can tell is whether enough people who have not been paying close attention or have not been active will find this latest outrage unacceptable and intolerable, and will respond by engaging much more heavily. When there aren't enough decent and thinking citizens paying attention and acting the politicians and corrupt special interests can get away with murder.  In this case literally by enabling it. 

    How many more outrages will it take before a critical mass, among those paying attention who haven't checked out yet, comes to believe that the system is simply not fixable and is leading us to ruin (including many people who disagree vehemently among themselves about what is wrong and what making it right looks like)?  And what happens then?  Honestly I don't know a single person paying attention who right now expresses the slightest degree of faith, or even hope, that the system can be fixed to at least function to a degree.  This is the biggest crisis of confidence I observe in our system since at least the Watergate and Vietnam era, when I was too young to have a more sophisticated sense of what I was observing and what it might mean.


    If "90%" of the "public" really is for this bill then I guess the 46 Senators who voted against it have committed political suicide.  Yet, they are being called "cowards" because they caved in to pressure from the NRA.  Do you suppose it's possible that they actually believed that the bill was NOT in the best interests of their constituents nor in the best interests of their COUNTRY.  We have witnessed in the twentieth century the complete disarming of the citizens of the UK.  What has happened to the "crimes against persons (you know, home invasions, rape, assault, etc.)?  They have INCREASED 4 or 5 FOLD.  Is that what you "enlightened liberals" want for the U.S.?  Do you realize that 78% of the counties in the U.S. have a zero gun murder rate?  And, these counties have an extremely HIGH rate of gun ownership.  America as a whole DOES NOT have a high rate of gun crime.  Almost 75% of the gun murders in the U.S. are from the 3% belonging to the inner city black gang war zones!  This is not POLITICALLY CORRECT to point out - but it's never-the-less quite TRUE.  The law abiding citizens of this country have been enjoying an increase in concealed carry along with a decrease in gun crime, steadily, for the past several decades.  School shootings are so rare they are called "black swan" events.  Forgive us if we don't feel like paying for crimes we had NOTHING to do with!

     

    Molon Labe! 


    I think your comment is a both a straw man and a non-sequitur, both.  Why?  You wrote:

    We have witnessed in the twentieth century the complete disarming of the citizens of the UK. 

    The bill that just failed had nothing to do with "the complete disarming of the citizens of the" United States.  I don't know whether you understand that or not, whether you are deliberately misrepresenting it or not.

    Your final statement is the dead giveaway of the socially atomistic, deeply antisocial view of the Randian demagogue.  In what way would this bill make people like you "pay" for crimes you had nothing to do with?  By trying to make you pass a background check if you want to purchase a gun?  Given all the mayhem we see every fucking day on account of people who have no business having guns in their possession in the first place killing other people?  Is that what you say to the families devastated by the Newtown massacre? 


    I will just ditto you and Ramona and Mac!

    If I start on some rant I will NEVER stop.

    Hell the Bobbies just began carrying guns a few decades ago for chrissakes!

    That's enough.

    Thank you!


    It WAS the first step in disarming American citizens. Anybody familiar with British history, saw this move by the President. as a repeat, play by play, of how a government can come for the guns of legal citizens......... All you supporters, of Obamas overreach, need to go back to civics class....no where in our Constitution does it say 51% can overide our rights  ...."the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"..... Gun rights activists have agreed, people ajuducated mentally unfit or felons, need to be on a list, but like them, I have a problem with intrusive government surveillance, especially when all we have done is exercised our legal right to keep and bear arms. .......A right our forefathers gave us, to protect us from scumbag politicians, who would love to pass laws, against the will of the people.   You all cry about public polls being ignored, these scumbags COULD JUST AS EASILY PASS LAWS AGAINST YOU AS WELL.  


    Resistance, really?  That's your argument?  Really?


    REALLY; because it's based on real facts.  Many are mad, because certain politicians  didn't bow to public pressure. Victims moving from office to office, a President milking the grief, to embarrass and pressure Congress to violate it's oath. Profiles in courage, are made up of people who when threatened by public opinion and pressure; these individuals have the strength and conviction to stand against those, who would cast asunder our Rights, to be protected from mob rule. Brave individuals who swore an oath, to defend against foreign and domestic enemies, who would wish to take away our rights. .....   I thought it was shameless, that he saw an opportunity to attack the Second Amendment, that had a snowballs chance in Hell, of being approved by the SCOTUS, as he diverted critical airtime, bully pulpit time from the more pressing issues we face ..... Surprise! while we were focused on guns, our attention was diverted from JOBS and now our outrage against his apparent attack on SS is muted by our disdain for gun lobbyists.


    So you're with the Republican senators, the NRA and the gun lobbyists then?  Just want to be clear. . .


    No, I am against both Capitalist parties, who wish to enslave us.  Our forefathers knew how the Royalty class treated the colonists,  how they ignored our petitions, as they allowed imported goods, to undermine American industries ....... Both the Dems and the Republicans serve the royalty class and  they are not going to spend money on Jobs, because they both want wages to go lower. Dont even think about retiring slave  .........How long will you folks in Michigan or anywhere else put up with the abuse?...... What say you Michigan;  are your leaders listening?  Do you hear the chains?


    Is there a solution in there somewhere?  Is anarchy the answer?  If so, who leads?  Will it create jobs and end poverty?

    Where are you going with this, or is it enough that the rant is out there?


    while we were focused on guns, our attention was diverted from JOBS and now our outrage against his apparent attack on SS is muted by our disdain for gun lobbyists.

    So you think so?  Not to worry!  Plenty more where this one came from!  Since when is outrage limited, or even diluted, to just one among the travesties being perpetrated before our eyes?  Hardly just outrage, however.  If outrage served for me as a substitute, instead of a spur, for action, I think I would pass on the former.  Wellstone might have said "Don't (just) vent!  Organize!"  Of course, that requires a willingness to associate with other people, who, as human beings, surely are less than 100% pure resistors against the screwed up system and the evildoers in our midst!


    Jefferson might have said "Don't just vent; (because  it's already shown itself worthless to do so.)  Organize your miltias, and kick the bastards back to England, with the rest of their royal court, We dissolve this Union"   He knew the British loyalist would disapprove, but who cared. As Rumsfield says "you go to war with the army you have" .... have you noticed, we have no JOBS  but we have plenty of prisoners and more everyday. (Why do they want to make everyone a felon; is it because felons have no rights?)  .......Have you noticed, Big Tea, Big sugar, BIG Banks, Big Pharma, Big Insurance companies, Big Importers, and other such entities, all have thier friends before the king and his court receiving favors; while the peasant class begs for sustenance? ... If the rich dont want to pay taxes, stop imports, build up our own homegrown industries and expand our middle class tax base. DOH! But congress wouldn't want to offend it's major financiers, just as King George didn't want to piss off his close friend. Screw the peasants; besides; they're powerless and even more so, if they can get the guns. This is not a new tactic by oppressors.


    You know, Resistance, I read this kind of stuff from you and my reaction is that it's just a big, fat excuse to do nothing about any of the important matters that are being decided in the here and now.  You've already determined that such efforts are futile, presumably because they won't bring about the revolution you think we need.  Or perhaps they are worse than futile in your mind, simply perpetuating an irredeemably evil status quo.  But you don't stop there.  You denigrate the efforts of those of us who are trying to win some of the fights going on right now, to which you appear utterly indifferent.

    Your thinking seems to reflect the "either/or" mindset--either one is a committed revolutionary determined to overthrow the system (somehow), or one is at best a fool for trying to do something about issues being decided now.  I thought of you when I picked up a copy yesterday of Jerry Manders' (former ad executive): The Capitalism Papers: Fatal Flaws of an Obsolete System.  I plan to get to that one sometime after reading Gar Alperovitz's What Then Must We Do? Straight Talk About the Next American Revolution.  Alperovitz has spent most of his life studying alternative economic structures, not ones in his mind but ones that are actually in existence.  He describes the next economic stage as requiring something that is neither traditional socialism nor traditional capitalism.  

    Some of us try to walk and chew gum at the same time.  We can and do demand of ourselves that we take such actions as we can to try, at least, as citizens to get done matters which appear trivial or worse to you, like mandatory background checks for would-be gun purchasers.  At the same time we operate on the different track of researching alternatives, both to our economy and our political system, that would represent a major departure from our current ways of operating.

    Because even if you have your wish and we have a revolution, we still need to decide what to replace the current systems with.  Or am I missing something here?  And in the meantime, it may very well be possible to experiment with alternative economic and political structures, at least to a degree, in the here and now, and try to learn from them whether they are viable or could work to bring about the better society we are seeking.

    Implied in your rants is a false choice between supporting revolution vs. complicity in perpetuating an evil status quo.  They can, and may even be intended to, excuse and serve as a copout for citizen inaction about issues that are being decided today and have consequences for your fellow citizens, who you purport to care about.  Just what we need. More citizen inaction, more citizens not using the substantial power, particularly collective power, they have to express and address grievances.  Or are you suggested armed rebellion?  Good luck with that.

    Some of us try to get beyond the rant.  Why should I assume your better world is workable and actually better?  I've not seen you write about that.  I'd be interested to hear what that looks like.  What I am left, in the absence of anything explicit that I've seen from you, to infer is some sort of anarchist utopia where oppression and power are no more.  Just a few questions about how something like that might work, given that we are still talking about a world inhabited by human beings, are we not?  I like to have at least some clue about where I'm going before, or as, I decide in which direction to move.  Knowing I may decide to change part way into the journey.

     

     


    Good comment, AD.  We'll fight on and get this country in shape yet.  Because, as you say, "some of us try to get beyond the rant".  I prefer to think that the next step, after the anger or disappointment, is a reasonable, rational effort to make our government work.

    Unless we want to live under the thumb of the privateers, we had best work harder at making government work.


    Unless we want to live under the thumb? Guess what ...We're already are in chains only thing left is the Ghost shirt movement?  ....The only thing I see on the horizon, to possibly change things now, is the underground movement. ....There is not a soul with any sense at all, that doesnt realize the corruptness of the Best Government money can buy...... Benjamin Franklin said it best, when asked "what they had formed", and in the end he said "if you can keep it"....... Well guess what slave class, YOU LOST IT, to the same folks, you took it from in the first place; the royalty class,..... They are not going to give a crap about your housing, they dont care about your retirement, they dont give a crap about bringing back jobs, they don't care about helping the veterans, all they care about, is that you keep bending over, and that you keep telling yourself, things will get better.......  I am a non-violent man and in some circles it might be construed as cowardice, but it doesnt take much imagination to see, history repeat itself, time after time. .... Even the uneducated serfs knew to meet the king on the battlefield, to extract the Magna Carta, The king fearing the violence about to ensue gave into the demands of the serfs, but hell NO, todays Dumb Democratic liberals, wants the government of the royalty class, to get the guns. ..... Save us Royalty class.... and then thinking the king will fear them?   Are they that stupid? When your lying on your death beds and your kids ask what did you do to remove the yoke of servitude and pass on Freedoms recieved from the previous generation, you tell them, we turned in our guns. becuase YOU thought you were dealing with honorable men.........  Take your directions from the Koch Brothers, they have a plan for you......  Do you really think the Tea Party is going away, despite all the grumblings....... ......Wish in one hand and shite in the other, I can tell you what the future will bring first. Seen it to many times in History.  Burying your head in the sand wont help, I suspect America will most likely become another Aljiers...... I wont be gathering in large crowds, where the royalty class hangs out. This is not a promotion of violence but an observation of the discontent and what it leads to..... Or are the disenfranchised supposed to shut up? I suspect they will and they'll go underground. Letting you ask WHY? .... BUT You won't find me there, but I did warn folks. The  Royalty class already knows this, thats why they have their homes in the Cayman islands. But people keep buying their imported crap that undermines the middle class even further. I am reminded of the pictures of the WTO meetings where the police are in riot gear and me  asking Why? and wondering who are the victims. Is it the people protesting for jobs or is it the fat cat dodging taxes. Or am I not to consider the issue that deeply Just remain a docile dumb serf ? 


    1st paragraph  After the Courts decision that money cannot be limited in elections; low and behold there are no middle class jobs, middle class voters are outmanuevered  Futile indeed  perpetuating the grip of monied interests over the interests of ordinary men . (Peasants) ........                   2nd Par  The only system you need to remember. "They're the LORDS and you're the serf. ...... 3 PAR DISARM THE PEASANTS..... If a newer generations Thomas jefferson or Nathan Hale should try to access the universal background check,  hold or delay supect,  until authorities arrive. ..... WTF  It would not have been my first choice to have a civil war over slavery,  nor is it my first inclination to have another to remove the yoke of slavery the staus quo intends, to inflict upon our nation now. (There are no jobs and there will be no jobs unless you cut your wages) You and all your high principled legislative manuevers intended to end slavery, just as those in the early 1800's, those many years before the final solution of The First Civil War, that finally resolved the issue, and not the constant jawboning, HOPING for a peaceful solution.......... More useless ciitzen action, beating on the castle doors? Venting your anger, until you get tired and move on, with another OWS movement. broken up by the protectors of the staus quo or  when another manufactured crisis  presents itself in the 24 hour plutocratic media controlled world. maybe another War to question your patrioic duty in the service of the king and his friends you need to protect?  .......You ask "are you suggesting armed rebellion" ...NO ....but rest assured the staus quo worries about it and they have convinced some peasants "Everyone needs to submit to background checks and if the status quo could get the guns, THEY WOULD.  ........Imagine the serfs on the plains, trying to force the king, to sign the Magna Carta, armed only with spoons?  Is that what you think would force the staus quo to meet our demands? As you wrote "GOOD LUCK WITH THAT "    ... You write you can walk and chew gum well thats just great, only we arent looking for cud chewers or jaw boners. Grap a ladder, pick up the pitchforks Obama convinced you to lay down, when you last approached the castle gates seeking to put the heads of the bankers on pikes . Not only did he disarm you and take the pitch forks, he tried to get your guns too. ...... Suck it up, bend over and you can still chew your gum. ...Hows that for his loving kindness. Your masters will be easy, if you don't resist............... Ps sorry for the caps and lack of breaks, I've been having problems with the site  


    What a bunch of absolute hogwash.  Did you copy that right out of the NRA handbook? 


    So you think you are fucking Spartan? Jeebus, collectively you loons need to find a brain.


    What has happened to the "crimes against persons (you know, home invasions, rape, assault, etc.)?  They have INCREASED 4 or 5 FOLD.

    Such total bullshit. I don't know why I waste time on fools who get all their information from Faux "news" and NRA propaganda sites or just make statistics up but once again. Violent crime has not increased 4 or 5 fold. In fact its been decreasing for at least the last couple of decades both in the US and the UK.

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/New+police+figures+show+12%25+decrease+in+...

    The recorded crime rate in England and Wales has now fallen or remained flat for 17 successive quarters, since March 2004. This sustained reduction now appears to be accelerating, with the 12% fall for the final quarter of 2007 compared with 12 months previously following cuts of 3%, 7% and 9% in previous quarters. .

    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/09/07084606/0

    This link contains tables showing significant reductions in virtually all types of crime over a 10 year period, 2000 to 2010.

    http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=31

    In the US

     

    * The homicide rate declined sharply from 9.3 homicides per
    100,000 in 1992 to 4.8 homicides per 100,000 in 2010.

     

    From 1995 to 2005, the total rate of sexual violence 
    committed against U.S. female residents age 12 or older 
    declined 64% from a peak of 5.0 per 1,000 females in 1995 to 
    1.8 per 1,000 females in 2005

     

    From 1994 to 2010, the overall rate of serious violent crime 
    against youth declined by 77%, from 61.9 victimizations per 
    1,000 youth ages 12 to 17 in 1994 to 14.0 per 1,000 in 2010 
    (figure 1). Among serious violent crimes against youth, the 
    rate of rape or sexual assault declined by 68%, robbery 
    declined by 77%, and aggravated assault declined by 80% 
    (table 2). The overall rate of simple assault declined by 83% 
    during the same period, from 125.1 victimizations per 1,000 
    youth in 1994 to 21.6 per 1,000 in 2010. Declines in simple 
    assault against youth were similar from 1994 to 2002 (down 
    61%) and from 2002 to 2010 (down 56%). Declines in serious 
    violent crime were greater from 1994 to 2002 (down 69%) than 
    from 2002 to 2010 (down 27%)

    Two years ago I bought another gun. Went to Walmarts, passed a background check, it took 2 minutes. What's the problem?

    I understand why people might be against an assault weapon ban. I may not agree but I get it. But do you really want criminals to buy guns at gun shows without a background check?

     

     


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