Elusive Trope's picture

    The Howl of a Defeatist Liberal

    I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked,

    dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix,

    angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starvry dynamo in the machinery of night,

    who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the supernatural darkness of cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities contemplating jazz,

    who bared their brains to Heaven under the El and saw Mohammedan angels staggering on tenement roofs illuminated,

    who passed through universities with radiant cool eyes hallucinating Arkansas and Blake-light tragedy among the scholars of war,

    ……

    When I was first was brought back to this poem back in October by an op-ed piece at the NY Times website it was just before the election and it seemed (while in my more histronic moods) that could be some prophetic vision of the liberals in this country (at least on the blogosphere), and then later after the election it still seemed to resonante, and especially after Obama made his now infamous compromise-capitulation.  Even more so with the “hallucinating Arkansas” moment of Bill Clinton taking to the podium to defend the tax deal and the “scholars of war” telling us “with Blake-like tragedy” we’d be in Afghanistan a little while longer.

    The poem, however, for other reasons has woven itself into my recent ponderings about the label of “defeatist liberal,” a label which others here and elsewhere have applied to me (and at times with the liberal portion of the label called into question).  There are times when I not only accept such a label, but that I embrace it, although my inclination would to be to qualify the label with a “somewhat.”

    The short explanation would be that being a defeatist liberal comes from concluding that I live in a country which does not broadly embrace a liberal perspective and therefore liberal socio-political achievements will be rare, if not non-existent at times.  In working on this blog, however, I have come to conclusion fully explaining what I mean by that simple sentence is far too complicated to be contained in the format of a blog.  Which is not to imply I am ducking the attempt to elaborate upon this statement.  Rather, it is is only to qualify that whatever I put forth is hardly the whole story.  Not even close.

    I will admit that on one level such a blog is merely a self-absorbed exercise (and really what blog isn’t), that there is some therapeutic drive to such an outpouring.  We all blog (and comment on blogs) for our own particular reasons, some of which are similar to others, but are in the end uniquely tied to our own experiences.  Just like any engagement with any art form be it poetry, dance, or theater, whether as the artist or the spectator who is unable to separate the dancer from the dance.

    To this extent, such a self-absorbed pondering is relevant to the collective discourse for it provides an opportunity for everyone to ponder the internal dynamics that each of us bring to politics or art or anything else of significance, and what is it that we believe we see when we get there.  One problem we face is that whatever conclusions we individually make about we perceive, we tend to assume that the conclusion is obviously clear to anyone willing to look.  Yet what is clear as a reality to one soul is not necessarily so to another.  And because we all drag along our own life with us, it can be said that none of us are capable of truly being able to clearly perceive what is there, let alone remember what has transpired.

    At this point I have to point out that among the other labels I would attribute to myself, post-structuralist is one of the significant ones when it comes to understanding how I see, understand and articulate the socio-political phenonmenon around me.  This topic alone is more than one blog can contain.  The implications of the notion of Derrida’s nothing-outside-the-text alone deserves more than one blog. 

    There are those who believe that language can be not only precise and definitive, but is also something concrete outside of us which we access in our attempt to understand and explain the world.  For these folks, clarity is not an impossible dream, whether it is the scientist or the preacher or whoever else.  For me, this belief that our reality is fundamentally a constructive feature of our language-based consciousness is a core liberal belief.   It is the counter to (for lack of a better term) the conservative view that we operate on perceptions of concrete reality.

    To elaborate on this, I would turn to constructive nature of gender and how it manifests itself in cultures.  I would explore how we act as if there was a true distinct division between man and woman, and merge that binary view with culturally-defined roles, expectations,. and identifications.  And I would explore how these are infused in each of us in the development of identity, and how this facet of our identity is infused with other facets our identity like those related to our politics. 

    But that is more than one blog can contain.  Yet to elaborate on this point I would turn to Milan Kundera in The Unbearable Lightness of Being and its section entitled “A Short Dictionary of Misunderstood Words.”   Here is one of the word, “parades, which highlights the notion we all operate upon our motifs.

    PARADES

    People in Italy or France have it easy. When their parents force them to go to church, they get back at them by joining the Party (Communist, Maoist, Trotskyist, etc.). Sabina, however, was first sent to church by her father, then forced by him to attend meetings of the Communist Youth League. He was afraid of what would happen if she stayed away.

    When she marched in the obligatory May Day parades, she could never keep in step, and the girl behind her would shout at her and purposely tread on her heels. When the time came to sing, she never knew the words of the songs and would merely open and close her mouth. But the other girls would notice and report her. From her youth on, she hated parades.

    Franz had studied in Paris, and because he was extraordinarily gifted his scholarly career was assured from the time he was twenty. At twenty, he knew he would live out his life within the confines of his university office, one or two libraries, and two or three lecture halls. The idea of such a life made him feel suffocated. He yearned to step out of his life the way one steps out of a house into the street.

    And so as long as he lived in Paris, he took part in every possible demonstration. How nice it was to celebrate something, demand something, protest against something; to be out in the open, to be with others. The parades filing down the Boulevard Saint-Germain or from the Place de la Republique to the Bastille fascinated him. He saw the marching, shouting crowd as the image of Europe and its history. Europe was the Grand March. The march from revolution to revolution, from struggle to struggle, ever onward.

    I might put it another way: Franz felt his book life to be unreal. He yearned for real life, for the touch of people walking side by side with him, for their shouts. It never occurred to him that what he considered unreal (the work he did in the solitude of the office or library) was in fact his real life, whereas the parades he imagined to be reality were nothing but theater, dance, carnival—in other words, a dream.

    During her studies, Sabina lived in a dormitory. On May Day all the students had to report early in the morning for the parade. Student officials would comb the building to ensure that no one was missing. Sabina hid in the lavatory. Not until long after the building was empty would she go back to her room. It was quieter than anywhere she could remember. The only sound was the parade music echoing in the distance. It was as though she had found refuge inside a shell and the only sound she could hear was the sea of an inimical world.

    A year or two after emigrating, she happened to be in Paris on the anniversary of the Russian invasion of her country. A protest march had been scheduled, and she felt driven to take part. Fists raised high, the young Frenchmen shouted out slogans condemning Soviet imperialism. She liked the slogans, but to her surprise she found herself unable to shout along with them. She lasted no more than a few minutes in the parade.

    When she told her French friends about it, they were amazed. You mean you don't want to fight the occupation of your country? She would have liked to tell them that behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil and that the image of that evil was a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unison. But she knew she would never be able to make them understand. Embarrassed, she changed the subject.

    And all we’re talking about is parades.  Not something like freedom or justice or democracy.  Not policy issues like gun control, abortion, health care, or taxes to pay for more mental health services in every community.

     And when we consider the dynamics of how we define ourselves is dependent upon and influences how we define the world around us in a maddening loop (the topic of the impact of abuse of children on their socio-political development is just one branch which comes off of this), the notion that we can separate the personal from the political is ludicrious.  And makes it so very clear why we are always talking past one another.

    One of the reasons we can’t listen is because we are unwilling to step back and actually hear the other person.  To keep it simple, I would offer the example of someone putting his or herself forward as candidate for president, who ideally presented just the right mix of economic populism and  social justice to unite the country, but then added that he or she was also a homosexual. 

     Of course the dynamic are more complex than that example.  But even that example highlights something like someone’s sexual orientation is a threatening phenomenon.  It isn’t just the hardcore religious fundamentalists who would have an issue with such a candidate.  One might argue at this point that we elected Barack Hussein Obama, so why not a homosexual.  Well, the reason why not is another blog (and yet one more reason I currently a defeatist liberal).

     Yet to touch upon the reason why not brings me back to Howl

    The op-ed article that brought my attention back to this poem was Stanley Fish’s Literary Criticism Comes to the MoviesNow with a title like that how could I not read it.  It turned out to be his take on the film Howl, which is as he describes: “not only about literary criticism but is the performance of literary criticism, an extended ‘explication de texte.’” which occurs in part

    through a re-enactment of the Ferlinghetti trial which sought to prove that Ferlinghetti was “publishing and distributing an obscene work, that is, a work that appeals only to prurient interests, has a tendency to incite lustful thoughts and has no redeeming social or literary value.

    According to Fish, Howl use of the trial to expand our understanding of the poem in this way:

    Because the trial’s analyses of specific lines and passages interrupt (or are interrupted by) the movie-long declaiming of the poem, we have a chance to hear the same lines and passages twice and even three times, and, as a result, we experience the effect of deepening understanding that is produced by the classroom teacher who circles and surrounds a poem with information, references and multiple points of view.

    To give another sense of this trial, here is A.O. Scott’s description of the trial scenes in the film:

    During the trial scenes, when Ginsberg is absent (he didn’t attend), his role as explicator is taken up by attorneys, witnesses and even the judge. The trial turns into a seminar on literary criticism led by the befuddled prosecutor (David Strathairn) who, as he puts it, represents the “average man” trying gamely to figure out what these incantatory words and phrases might possibly signify, if anything. His method (quite reasonable) is to ask a succession of literary critics, brought in as expert witnesses, what does this line mean or why is this word relevant or why does this passage have literary value?

    The answers are sometimes thematic (the poem is about “uprooted people wandering around,” says Mark Schorer, my department chair in the early 60’s), sometimes political (the poem is about despairing reactions to the post-World War II world), sometimes ideological (the poem is a protest against the depredations of capitalism), sometimes formal (the poem does not have a form, says a hostile critic; the words chosen convey the author’s intention says a more friendly one), sometimes evaluative (it’s not literature, says one witness; it stands the test of time and will be productive of other poems like it, says another). In one extended sequence there is an animated discussion of “Howl”’s relationship to Walt Whitman’s “Leaves of Grass.” And there is even an exchange between the defense attorney (played by Jon Hamm) and a wonderfully pompous English professor (played by Jeff Daniels) about the nature of originality and literary borrowing.

    Today that this trial actually occurred in America is almost unthinkable, especially in San Francisco of all places.  Yet it did happen.  Fortunately, on October 3, 1957 Judge Clayon Horn found Howl was not obscene and Ferlinghetti was acquitted.  One point to make, however, is that the judge did not throw out the case as unworthy of the courts.  The notion that the state had the right to arrest someone over selling a poem that was deemed obscene was not questioned explicitly.

    Ultimately this was a liberal victory.  A step forward in the march of free expression of the individual.  This trial became a landmark First Amendment case because it established a key legal precedent for the publication of other controversial literary work with redeeming social importance.  But we cannot forget that the reason that Ferlinghetti was on trial was that Howl contained such lines as:

     ....who let themselves be fucked in the ass by saintly motorcyclists, and screamed with joy.

    Nothing much has changed.  If we put it to the people of this nation, how many Americans would say such a poem has “redeeming social importance”?  How many would say they would want their children taught the poem in high school or junior high?  And what relation would those answers have to the viability of a homosexual candidate for president?  And what does this have to do with everyone’s sense of gender identity?  And their intimate relationship to parades?

    Which is another way of saying that the American populace (and by extention the American electorate) are not a sophiscated bunch.  They are like prosecutor in the Ferghenitti tiral as A.O. Scott puts it: 

    Mr. Strathairn’s prosecutor humbly and touchingly confesses, in his summation, that he can’t quite understand what “Howl” is about, and rather than mock him, the film (like the poet) takes his confusion seriously. Ginsberg’s poem is shown to be not difficult or forbidding, but honest, generous and inclusive, containing multitudes.

    The emphasis is mine.  That each moment, each experience, each perception contains multitudes is a fundamental notion of liberalism.  And thiis is what threatens too many.  They want their certainty.  Howl and homosexuality and host of others threaten that certainity.  In this sense, we are nation that does not embrace a liberal perspective.   And why I will continue to be a liberal defeatist and why I will continue to howl.  Who knows, I might even be destroyed by madness.

    So to end this self-indulgent ramble, I would put forth a reworking of Michael Frayn’s Democracy when the East Germany Stasi agent Kretschmann spoke to the moll Guillaume about the democracy in the west to fit the U.S. today:

    ….The United States! Not just one so-called democracy—fifty separate democracies tied up in a federation like ferrets in a bag!  Fifty separate talking-shops all talking at the same time, with the federal talking-shop in D.C. trying to make itself heard above the rest of them!  Two political parties, in and out of the bed with each other like drunken intellectuals,…and three hundred and ten million separate egos.  All making deals with each other and breaking them.  All looking round at every moment to see the expression on everyone else’s face.  All trying to guess which way everyone else will jump.  All out for themselves, and all totally dependent on everyone else.  Not one United States. Three hundred and ten million United States.  The tower of Babel!

    All those egos.  Bringing the whole of their history with them.  Which may something Milan Kundera wrote in The Book of Laughter and Forgetting make perfect sense.

    Once the writer in every individual comes to life (and that time is not far off), we are in for an age of universal deafness and lack of understanding.

    And you ask why I am I liberal defeatist howling in the forest?

    Comments

    I'm going to have to go back and re-read this a couple more times, but the first thing that jumped out at me was the reference to "the classroom teacher who circles and surrounds a poem with information, references and multiple points of view", which is, of course, exactly what Milan Kundera does so often in his novels; he plays out a scene multiple times from multiple points of view. Kundera always seemed to me to be deconstructing the novel and using a more cinematic technique in his storytelling. 

    So what you're saying is Liberals are complicated and Conservatives are not? That Liberals are able to live with the vagaries of uncertainty and not knowing, whereas Conservative want simple assurances and certainty of action?  Liberals like figuring out 1000 piece jigsaw puzzles while Conservatives just like to paint-by-the-numbers? And because of that, Progressives will never attain real success because we make our own challenges too daunting and/or impossible to solve?  Is that what you're saying? Or have I, in my insomnia, misunderstood you completely?


    Concerning your first paragraph, I didn't see that in the reworking of this blog over the past months. But that is what Kundera was doing.  

    Which leads into my answer to your second paragraph.  The thing which I would want point out that I didn't in the blog is that is that I am not trying to separate liberals and conservatives.  Many of the qualities and facets of liberial thought is also found in other thoughts, including conservative.  To keep it simple, most political paradigms embrace freedom. 

    What I would argue in the end is that many who claim that they our liberal and conservatives are attracted to the paint-by-number portraits of reality.  Just because one says one is on the side of the working class, etc. doesn't mean one approaches the conditions of human life with a liberal perspective.

    To put it even more simply, we won't achieve our liberal goals because too many who are considered liberal by either self-report or by stance on this or that political election or issue, view the world concretely, and are unable to approach the problems and the world in general through a perspective of mental constructivism.


    So, we can never achieve our goals? Well, who wants to play in that sandbox?

    I agree that too often people get so defined by labels and affiliations that they can't think outside of the box for new answers.  Conservatives at the moment, for example, seem so defined as being pro-gun, that even after the Tucson tragedy, they can't find a way to support any change in our gun regulations, even something obvious like banning multiple ammo clips, which should be a no-brainer.

    I suppose if you break anything down far enough,  you can get to the commonalities, where everything is the same as everything else; in the same the way you can break down every joke to two basic types (comparison and exaggeration) or note that there are only five basic plots to any story, (rags to riches, stranger in a strange land, the quest, revenge and boy meets girl), but that doesn't mean you can't tell one story from another.  The movie 'Elizabeth', with Cate Blanchett and 'The Godfather' tell basically the same story:  An innocent unexpectedly rises to become a powerful leader and learns how to consolidate their power. But you'd never confuse the two movies.  So though all political paradigms may embrace freedom, the different philosophies are not the same in the methods they believe will achieve that freedom and that's how you can tell them apart.. I mean, don't we delineate our affiliations to form tribes? And we form tribes to band together to try to achieve a common goal?  Why worry that some members of the tribe are too loyal and can only paint-by-the-numbers?  Maybe we just need to make and provide better outlines for them to follow ...


    Somewhere in my education, I had a professor who said there was just two stories: the innocent lives the village into the unknown and hostile world and the stranger from the outside world comes to the village.  Which makes me think of the Hal Hartley film Henry Fool...

    And during some NPR segment sometime ago, there was someone who said that humor always needs someone to suffer.

    I'm not quite sure what it all means but I like your notion of providing better outlines for those painting by numbers. 

    I am in transit right now and have a quick stop over.  But while traveling I was pondering your comments before this latest one and what I am trying to say.  And there is one thing which I would throw out there which may not be a popular comment but that is liberalism is based on a certain level intellectual sophistication.  And this is does bring up the facet of my thinking that when I am talking about liberalism, I am not trying to divide this into liberal vs conservatives.  In other words. I am not trying to say that because liberal perspectives is dependent upon intellectual sophistication, it follows that conservatives are intellectually unsophisticated. 

    I would argue that the problem is that those on both sides of the political spectrum, if we are to simplify things by dividing everyone into liberal and conservative camps, are dealing with those who are not intellectually sophisticated.

    One of the more demoralizing moments in my life was seeing the reactions of my liberal friends to the film Brokeback Mountain.  It wasn't that they hostile to it.  But almost to a tee (if that is the phrase I am looking for), they made belittling jokes about it afterwards. I was an emotional mess afterwards, and the group of bleeding hearts I saw the film with wasted no time in making light of the fact.  In fact, as I think about it, here and now, it was on that car ride home from the theater that I took a major step in becoming the defeatist liberal I am today.

    Why should I believe we have any hope when even "hardcore liberals"  mock me (and let me just say for the record it was equally male and female) for crying during the scene in which the mother hands over the shirt of her son to his lover.  The look she gives him, and he back, no words spoken, two souls who have suffered, and know the loss that has come from the ignorance and hatred of others, whether it is because they are gay in a straight world, or a woman in a man's world, or ultimately the oppressed in a oppressor's world, brought all the pain all the oppressed have suffered.  The emotional, physical, and spiritual pain. 

    I understand that maybe others didn't connect as deeply with that moment or the film.  That is not the point of my "criticism."  The point is that when one experiences another's emotional outpouring, it should be supported.  But we are are so closed off in our little worlds.  We are threatened by emotions we don't understand.  We mock them, we belittle them.  There is a reason that the phrase "that is so gay" became quite popular.  It offered the quick way to undermine a behavior, a perspective, a way of being that threatened the normal way of being. 

    So we achieve our goals, that are miles away, inch by inch.  There is another movie that comes to mind.  Into the Void.  The climber with his broken body, finding his way somehow out of the crevice is faced with miles of rocky terrain to traverse if he has any hope of surviving.  He makes the comment if he allowed himself to think about what he had to ultimately do he would have given up right then and there.  Instead he focused on that rock over there.  And once he crawled to that rock he focused on another rock. 

    And as we crawl our broken bodies toward the next rock, we cannot be sure we heading the right direction.  All we can do is go with our gut, and trust what faith we have that we are right, all the while holding the doubt that we may be wrong.  Such is the liberal's condition.


    "One of the more demoralizing moments in my life was seeing the reactions of my liberal friends to the film Brokeback Mountain.  It wasn't that they hostile to it.  But almost to a tee (if that is the phrase I am looking for), they made belittling jokes about it afterwards. I was an emotional mess afterwards, and the group of bleeding hearts I saw the film with wasted no time in making light of the fact." 

    I would make two quick points about this; 1) Either you have callous, unfeeling friends which has nothing to do with their political bent, or more likely 2) Your friends could very well have been masking their emotions with derisive humor so that you wouldn't see how much the film affected them. What people say is not always what they feel, sometimes it's the opposite.  Give your friends the benefit of the doubt and assume they couldn't handle the human emotions or were embarassed by them, (is it really suprising to you that some people have trouble dealing with gay characters expressing strong emotional love?), and therefore tried to mask their feelings by changing the conversation to the easiost option available, poking fun at you.  In many such instances the giveaway is that people, in their attempts to hide their true feelings, go overboard in the opposite direction. Now forgive them for using your emotional devastation as fodder to hide their own.

    "I would argue that the problem is that those on both sides of the political spectrum, if we are to simplify things by dividing everyone into liberal and conservative camps, are dealing with those who are not intellectually sophisticated."

    I don't think it has alot to do with intellectual sophistication. Conservatives and Progressives simply have two different world views which can overlap in some areas but are complete polar opposites in other areas, and both camps have a wide range of intellectual sophistication.  Can Conservatives ever think of solutions that are Progressive and vice versa? Sure, I think it happens all the time and the real intellectual effort is about how to cloak the solution in the words that one's base will assume are their own. Sure everyone does not think on the same intellectual level, but I for one, always hope that our representatives are on a higher level than the general public. I want Congress men and women on both sides of the aisle to be smarter than the average person. although sad to say, my hopes are not always realized.


    Let me first say that I forgave my friends soon enough.  Your explanation of the dynamics involved in their reaction is about dead on as one could hope.  The reason is that such a moment was demoralizing was, as I said, wasn't because they were hostile but, and something I may emphasized more, was because they supportive of the very sentiment they were mocking. 

    The Dali Lama I believe was the one to say (or it may have been another teacher from the East) that Americans should go through five years of therapy before they seriously attempt Buddhist mediation. We bring too much mental baggage with us, to an extent one doesn't witness in other parts of the world.  As someone who done my share of 50-minute hours, I would agree with this sentiment.

    If one is writing a sit-com, one is easiest "fall guys" one can provide is the therapist.  There are few things that unite the people than picking on headshrinkers.  Which is, to riff on your comment, is a way of people of masking their own feelings.  To acknowledge therapists and counselors are legitimate is to acknowledge that maybe they could benefit from exploring what lurks beneath their own surface. 

    My friends reaction was simply an example of the problem rampant in our nation.  We would like to believe it just some Bud-swilling NASCAR fan that is unwilling to confront their emotions, to live the examined life.  But unfortunately that is not the case. 

    And this would bring me to how I personally define intellectualism.  Keeping it simple, it usually refers to the mattes of the "mind," i.e. the rational portion of the brain.  When something is called "intellectual" or "too intellectual" is because it dealing with abstract conceptual notions.  But for me intellectualism has to do with the effort to merge the "mind" with the "heart" and ultimately the "spirit."  It is the continous effort to recognize the limits of each, while recognizing the value of each. 

    In order to do that, one must recognize how it operates in own life.  Which means being willing to be open to how one feels, how one truly experiences, in spite of the filters and masks we try to throw up (which takes me back to why the play is the thing, but that is a whole series of other blogs). 

    We too often hope for the leader to get us to make the next step.  Rather than place our hopes in the people, we wait for the next MLK or JFK.  And while such folks can help us make some serious steps forward, we are not going to make any serious forward if the people are not equal to those inspirational leaders.  That notion can lead one to be...well...a defeatist.


    For democracy to be able to replicate itself, all involved must be able to have a life. Everything else is a class war.

    The wars on US soil have all been about forms of life, even when variously removed participants fought for other reasons: Must I remain a slave? Can I remain a Kiowa? To be American is to survive a culture war.

    If something like progress is possible, more and more people need to start having a life. When the divisions between people fall, new oppurtunities become possible. That is a good thing. But there is a catch. It becomes more difficult to build a collective enterprise when the structure becomes progressivly more contingent upon personal choices.

    If we don't live the better life that might be possible, the whole thing is some kind of sick puppet show.

    This is what I think about when they say that thing on the planes about the respirator. Put yours on first so that you will be able to help other people.


    I know you have put a lot of work into this blog post, and that you have obviously worked on it over a considerable amount of time. I genuinely appreciate the difficulty of this effort that covers such a wide topic as to make it necessary to simply introduce supporting arguments, but then dismiss them as being "topics for another blog." And I honor your intent "to qualify that whatever I put forth is hardly the whole story.  Not even close."

    I have read and re-read the text in attempt to write a response. I have in fact crafted a few responses so far, but I find myself falling down the same rabbit holes you seem to sidestep by deferring the discussion of related topics to another blog. And so I find myself taking a wide-view impression of what is written here and can feel the defeatism that you write about. My impression is that the overall complaint you make here is that you are a liberal ideologue who gets stuck in the mud. And stays there.

    Perhaps I can best engage the discussion by trying to define the "mud" that I see as limiting your attempt to move forward effectively.

    If I understand your one premise correctly, it is that the overwhelming majority of people are not presently inclined to adopt liberal ideology. I would answer that it really doesn't matter whether you are right or wrong on this point. On this, I will defer by insisting that this is the topic for a whole other blog. But suffice to say for now that the Labor Movement and Civil Rights Movement are just two examples of leftist programs that had (indeed, have?) little support from the general population, which has always been apolitical at best and inherently inclined to support the status quo. Yet, these movements were overwhelmingly successful and brought about substantial change in the political realm.

    What is more troubling to me is your apparent insistence that we who care to engage in political discourse cannot be absolutist in promoting our ideology. You appear to warn yourself into paralysis by "knowing" that we cannot be certain we are right in our views that are informed by our personal backgrounds and experience that skew our world-view (or whatever else it might be that corrupts our ability to be perfectly "right" in our political perspectives.)

    First, I suggest there is no way to promote an ideology with anything less than a full confidence in your belief. It isn't any different than the philosopher selling his philosophy or the scientist acting fully upon scientific theory. It's unreasonable to assume that Camus had the secrets to the Universe all figured out, yet he could not advance his philosophical viewpoints without a full-throated insistence that he was right. Likewise, the scientist who tries to wrap her arms around the astrophysical must KNOW that her theorems and understanding of the "rules"of science are sufficiently well-reasoned and reliable to find exacting "truths." Otherwise, her exploration of the heavens never proceeds because she can't trust the tools she is using will serve her purpose. 

    In each case, the ideologue, the philosopher, and the scientist must consider any new information that makes it necessary to alter their perspective or their belief or even the fundamental "science" that underscores their effort. They must also be intensely committed to incorporate same into a "new" perfect view. But that view remains "perfect" nonetheless, or they otherwise suffer the paralysis of defeatism that I see in your essay. Pretty tough to get off the dime if you worry about the likelihood that you really don't already have all the answers or even all the tools to be invincible in pursuit of same.

    That's all I have time for now, but there is so much more discussion that could be engaged that arises from your effort here to dig down into this "defeatist liberal" position you seem to find yourself in. Hopefully, I've managed to contribute a nugget or two to advance the discussion and I look forward to the response.


    Sorry for posting this blog then disappearing, but unforseen personal circumstances arose.  Enough said about that.  I think you have put forth some significant "nuggets."   I think you offer a definie nugget of wisdom with:

    In each case, the ideologue, the philosopher, and the scientist must consider any new information that makes it necessary to alter their perspective or their belief or even the fundamental "science" that underscores their effort. They must also be intensely committed to incorporate same into a "new" perfect view. But that view remains "perfect" nonetheless, or they otherwise suffer the paralysis of defeatism that I see in your essay. Pretty tough to get off the dime if you worry about the likelihood that you really don't already have all the answers or even all the tools to be invincible in pursuit of same.

    Rollo May in his book The Courage to Create (which I would say was one the top ten influential books of my adolescence) first brought up the notion of the courage of our convictions.  He said the challenge was to one on the hand be truly believe in our convictions and on the other hand to keep the doubt in our mind that we might be wrong.  The latter facet is what allows us to be open to new information that might mean we have to alter our view of things.

    One of the versions of this blog included a section regarding the The Golden Notebook, which dealt with as one of the offshoot threads the Marxists coming to terms with the real Stalin and the atrocities he committed.

    I suppose the point here is that one is faced with the question what next?  The civil rights movement did not have a master plan, rather it occurred in an unfolding organic series of actions, people from MLK down making it up as they went along.  The same goes for the unfolding of the labor movement.  So often it is one event that sparks things and people somehow move forward, whether it was Rosa Parks, Stonewall Riot, the student protestors attacked in Prague that led to the Velvet Revolution, and most recently the fruit vendor killed in Tunsia.

    In the meantime we muddle forward.  And where is one to put one's energy?  In the short-term small victories that do not make the status quo shudder?  Or working toward the Grand Confrontation between the haves and the have-nots?  Or something else altogether? 

    Which is may just a way of saying that all I have are questions, but no answers.  Which one might say makes me more of the artistic personality than the political personality (now, there's another blog).


    He said the challenge was to one on the hand be truly believe in our convictions and on the other hand to keep the doubt in our mind that we might be wrong.

    As SJ alludes to, this is an issue in the sciences as well, and one I've run into. I hold at least one unconventional scientific belief that I defended in my Masters thesis, but which I don't expect will become mainstream any time soon, even though I still believe I'm right. That said, if I'm right, that means Stephen Hawking is wrong (on this one, limited, issue), so that although in order for progress to be made if I'm right I must assume that I'm right (else, why bother working on it), I must also acknowledge out of the faint trace of humility that maybe, just maybe, Stephen Hawking understands the problem better than I.


    It was Einstein I believe that spoke of viewing the world from our climb up the mountain.  From our location, knowledge-wise, on that moutain, our view is correct.  It is only as we climb a little higher (or lower for that matter) that we see that there is something else that is also correct.  Sometimes our arguments are simply about who is where on the mountain.

    In the world of science these days, our knowledge has advanced to such a point (superstring theory etc) that it will be a long time before we can determine if we even on a mountain or whether we are more than one mountain at the same time.


    Not much time here, but I gotta say that your "place on the mountain" analogy is troubling to me, at least as presented. It seems far too passive in accepting other ideologies or world-views. After all, somewhere on that mountain sits a guru who believes that imprisoning Jews in Concentration Camps is one in a list of adequate solutions to our collective problems. (Only one example.)

    I can sit right alongside that person on the mountain, I suppose, but I won't ever find value or "truth" in their perspective. In fact, I'll probably do what I can to throw him off the mountain rather than allow him to act upon his beliefs.


    I would say that maybe there was too much passivity as presented.  I have recently here at Dagblog been labelled an elitist by one soul for going after the folks in this country who believe the world is 10,000 years old (40% according to recent polls).  I don't find a scientific truth in their perspective.  I would also apply this conclusion to anyone beyond the Christian faith who have some literal understanding in their creationist beliefs.

    At the same time we have to learn to live in harmony with those of other faiths.  So we fight for the right for the KKK and the Neo-Nazis to march down the streets.  Even as voice our disagreement about how they present the world.

    At times, we find that an individual is able to use some found power to create an injustice.  Whether it is denying an apartment to couple because they are Jews or setting a system of sending all the Jews to Concentration Camps.  We need to do what we can to intervene so that such injustices do not happen.  At the same time, we can't thrown someone into jail simply because they are Neo-Nazi (even though many of us would really, really love to).


    Again, Trope, I see you tying yourself in knots to create conundrums where none exist.

    I can honor the free speech rights of anyone, especially the right of those who utter speech I find most offensive. The KKK and neo-Nazis and even the Westboro Baptist Church should not have their speech rights violated.

    But I will NEVER propose to live in harmony with these people.

    For example, quite recently the Westboro asshats supposedly protested at a military funeral in OK or KS (can't remember which). While at the funeral, someone flattened the tires on their vehicle. The photo I saw was of the vehicle being driven on its rims from one mechanic's shop to another because the businesses refused to provide them service.

    I would have been among those who very reluctantly supported their right to (irresponsibly, IMO) exercise free speech. But I also would have stood with those business owners who refused to let such reprehensible and hateful people darken their door. And I would have been quite free in the exercise of my own free speech rights in letting them know exactly why I hoped they never received assistance with their tire problem.

    Would I have them arrested for expressing their ideology or their faith? No! Would I take every opportunity to marginalize them as social outcasts unworthy of any consideration? Absolutely! Would I flatten their tires? Now, THAT'S a far more interesting dilemma than anything you've introduced above! LOL!


    Would I flatten their tires? Now, THAT'S a far more interesting dilemma than anything you've introduced above! LOL!

    That's an easy for me: I most definitely would not flatten their tires (although I wholeheartedly agree with you about the mechanics). Perhaps somewhat hypocritically, however, I also wouldn't feel any obligation to report on who did flatten their tires if I were privy to that information.


    And in saying so, you show you understand the dilemma of which I speak. ;O)


    Would I have them arrested for expressing their ideology or their faith? No! Would I take every opportunity to marginalize them as social outcasts unworthy of any consideration? Absolutely! Would I flatten their tires? Now, THAT'S a far more interesting dilemma than anything you've introduced above! LOL!

    Would I flatten the tires? A most interesting dilemma indeed.  I suppose a lot depends on how one describes living in harmony.  I am reminded of the nuns in the Sound of Music who vandalize the cars of the Nazis chasing the Von Trapp family.  LOL.


    It's perhaps not the effect you intended, but the main conclusion I would draw from this post is that your defeatism is a psychic prison of your own construction.


    Excerpt from Prufrock expressing similiar sentiments:

    And would it have been worth it, after all,
    After the cups, the marmalade, the tea,
    Among the porcelain, among some talk of you and me,
    Would it have been worth while,        90
    To have bitten off the matter with a smile,
    To have squeezed the universe into a ball
    To roll it toward some overwhelming question,
    To say: “I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
    Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all”—        95
    If one, settling a pillow by her head,
      Should say: “That is not what I meant at all.
      That is not it, at all.”
     
    And would it have been worth it, after all,
    Would it have been worth while,        100
    After the sunsets and the dooryards and the sprinkled streets,
    After the novels, after the teacups, after the skirts that trail along the floor—
    And this, and so much more?—
    It is impossible to say just what I mean!
    But as if a magic lantern threw the nerves in patterns on a screen:        105
    Would it have been worth while
    If one, settling a pillow or throwing off a shawl,
    And turning toward the window, should say:
      “That is not it at all,
      That is not what I meant, at all.”
          .      .      .      .      .
            110
    No! I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be;
    Am an attendant lord, one that will do
    To swell a progress, start a scene or two,
    Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool,
    Deferential, glad to be of use,        115
    Politic, cautious, and meticulous;
    Full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse;
    At times, indeed, almost ridiculous—
    Almost, at times, the Fool.
     
    I grow old … I grow old …        120
    I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.
     
    Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?
    I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
    I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.
     
    I do not think that they will sing to me.        125
     
    I have seen them riding seaward on the waves
    Combing the white hair of the waves blown back
    When the wind blows the water white and black.
     
    We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
    By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown        130
    Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

    http://www.bartleby.com/198/1.html


    That was good.


    Your post make me feels that maybe, just maybe, I was actually say what I mean, even though I am not even sure what I actually mean, for in the first versions of this blog I had intended to end with:

    In one of the first versions of this blog, I bookmarked Howl with:

    Let us go then, you and I,
    When the evening is spread out against the sky
    Like a patient etherized upon a table;
    Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,
    The muttering retreats
    Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels
    And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:
    Streets that follow like a tedious argument
    Of insidious intent
    To lead you to an overwhelming question . . .
    Oh, do not ask, "What is it?"
    Let us go and make our visit.

    In the room the women come and go
    Talking of Michelangelo.

    The yellow fog that rubs its back upon the window-panes,
    The yellow smoke that rubs its muzzle on the window-panes
    Licked its tongue into the corners of the evening,
    Lingered upon the pools that stand in drains,
    Let fall upon its back the soot that falls from chimneys,
    Slipped by the terrace, made a sudden leap,
    And seeing that it was a soft October night,
    Curled once about the house, and fell asleep.

    And indeed there will be time
    For the yellow smoke that slides along the street,
    Rubbing its back upon the window-panes;
    There will be time, there will be time
    To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet;
    There will be time to murder and create,
    And time for all the works and days of hands
    That lift and drop a question on your plate;
    Time for you and time for me,
    And time yet for a hundred indecisions,
    And for a hundred visions and revisions,
    Before the taking of a toast and tea.

    In the room the women come and go
    Talking of Michelangelo.

    And here I am with a hundred indecisions, a hundred visions and revisions.  And given all the efforts, would it have been worth it all?

    I do not know why this poem sprung to your mind as a result of my blog.  But I would say that much of the Modernist perpective came from a defeatist sentiment that followed WWI. 

    And I will say that the following line is one most haunting of all literature:

    Till human voices wake us, and we drown.


    Wow.  How about that?  Great minds? ;-)

    However, I think describing the sentiment resulting from  WWI as defeatist is a bit harsh.  Anomie seems to suit that era better. I would say defeatist came later after WW2 in the howls of Ginsburg, as you demonstrated, as well as Sartre, Kerouac, Thompson, etc.  


    What you say about Anomie makes sense.  I suppose one might say that the defeatism that emerged after the second world war was made possible by the anomie that emerged from the aftermath of the first.

    THE SECOND COMING

        Turning and turning in the widening gyre
        The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
        Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
        Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
        The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
        The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
        The best lack all conviction, while the worst
        Are full of passionate intensity.

        Surely some revelation is at hand;
        Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
        The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
        When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
        Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
        A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
        A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
        Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
        Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.
        The darkness drops again but now I know
        That twenty centuries of stony sleep
        Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
        And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
        Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

    --- William Butler Yeats


    Yeats is a great nodal point. a before and an after.

    I have heard that in heaven, Eliot and Auden go on beer runs for Yeats just to get him to stop.

     


    Latest Comments