MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
are on pages 11 through 15 of Dave Remnick's article in the Jan. 27 The New Yorker (free online access): Annals of the Presidency: Going the Distance; On and off the road with Barack Obama. The article is the result of a lengthy "embed" with the president and ranges over the problems, both domestic and foreign, of his so-called "annus horribilus."
If you want to get the entire context of what he's thinking on the Mideast, read at least pages 11 through 15 (starting with the heading VI—A NEW EQUILIBRIUM, and not just the excerpted three paragraphs below, which I am copying only to give an idea of the detailed analysis that Remnick managed to get out of him:
[...] Ultimately, he envisages a new geopolitical equilibrium, one less turbulent than the current landscape of civil war, terror, and sectarian battle. “It would be profoundly in the interest of citizens throughout the region if Sunnis and Shias weren’t intent on killing each other,” he told me. “And although it would not solve the entire problem, if we were able to get Iran to operate in a responsible fashion—not funding terrorist organizations, not trying to stir up sectarian discontent in other countries, and not developing a nuclear weapon—you could see an equilibrium developing between Sunni, or predominantly Sunni, Gulf states and Iran in which there’s competition, perhaps suspicion, but not an active or proxy warfare.
“With respect to Israel, the interests of Israel in stability and security are actually very closely aligned with the interests of the Sunni states.” As Saudi and Israeli diplomats berate Obama in unison, his reaction is, essentially, Use that. “What’s preventing them from entering into even an informal alliance with at least normalized diplomatic relations is not that their interests are profoundly in conflict but the Palestinian issue, as well as a long history of anti-Semitism that’s developed over the course of decades there, and anti-Arab sentiment that’s increased inside of Israel based on seeing buses being blown up,” Obama said. “If you can start unwinding some of that, that creates a new equilibrium. And so I think each individual piece of the puzzle is meant to paint a picture in which conflicts and competition still exist in the region but that it is contained, it is expressed in ways that don’t exact such an enormous toll on the countries involved, and that allow us to work with functioning states to prevent extremists from emerging there.”
[....]
Obama’s lowest moments in the Middle East have involved his handling of Syria. Last summer, when I visited Za’atari, the biggest Syrian refugee camp in Jordan, one displaced person after another expressed anger and dismay at American inaction. In a later conversation, I asked Obama if he was haunted by Syria, and, though the mask of his equipoise rarely slips, an indignant expression crossed his face. “I am haunted by what’s happened,” he said. “I am not haunted by my decision not to engage in another Middle Eastern war. It is very difficult to imagine a scenario in which our involvement in Syria would have led to a better outcome, short of us being willing to undertake an effort in size and scope similar to what we did in Iraq. And when I hear people suggesting that somehow if we had just financed and armed the opposition earlier, that somehow Assad would be gone by now and we’d have a peaceful transition, it’s magical thinking." [....]
The full range is broader, including much more on Iran, and topics like drones in Yemen, al Qaeda, Egypt , Iraq etc.
Comments
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/23/2014 - 4:10am
Well Well Well . . .
Buried down in that long winded NYTimes coverage:
Screw the Russians... They've been standing on the sidelines supporting the Assad Baathist regime and aiding and abetting this gross civil war and the genocide and crimes against humanity by the various factions involved for decades. And so have we up to the current administration.
The Russian's actions have been no different than when the US was aiding and abetting Saddam and his Baathist regime to ride herd for years in Iraq.
Right or wrong, the reality is that Saddam ended up in a spider hole and then at the end of a rope at the hands of his own people.
Assad can simply stay out of the way and enjoy his comfortable life in seclusion.
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Thu, 01/23/2014 - 3:07pm
In the end, what you're talking about is the "strong man needed here" theory, where some peoples are not considered ready for self-rule and that they may end up causing worse trouble for themselves and the rest of the world without one until they are. Actually, Putin's popularity in Russia is kinda like evidence that a majority of Russians believe that about themselves. (BTW, more and more I tend to think Russian thinking on Syria is more about terrorism effects than it is about economic benefits, though the latter are a strong consideration, too.) And yes, U.S. foreign policy has often believed in the same.
To take it back to the initial post here, what's interesting about Obama's current thinking is that it seems to be developing along the lines of not either/or strong man or full-blown democracy, but that sometimes you just have to accept that chaos will go on for a while and just try to ameliorate the worst tendencies of humans while that's happening...
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/23/2014 - 5:02pm
On the topic of Russia being mostly concerned with terrorism, there was confirmation Thursday from a top dog himself:
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/24/2014 - 4:46pm
That has been my take for some time. The naval base at Tartus is a factor but I think Putin's main desire is that jihadists don't get control of Syria, create an Islamic state and export terrorism to the Chechen rebels. He couldn't care less how brutal Assad is as long as he keeps it, and the jihadists, with in his borders.
And frankly, I can't decide which is worse. Assad and his brutality or an Islamic state and its brutality. I don't even see a third less worse option.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 01/24/2014 - 5:14pm
Well . . .
The partitioning of Syria doesn't look promising...
“Towards a partition of Syria?”, Voltaire Network, 16 January 2014,
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 1:44am
Yeah, I think it's helpful to look at Anbar province in Iraq right now through Putin's eyes. Where maybe a few ISIS guys from Syria visit Fallujah and within weeks you've got 140,000 new refugees, that's all it takes.
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/24/2014 - 8:21pm
Some "as the region turns" updates:
The Sinai insurgent group Ansar Beit al-Maqdis have claimed responsibility for all of Friday's bombings in Cairo:
The Lede @ NYT; BBC News
Among many other things, this means a major ramp up of already major Egyptian antipathy towards the Hamas government in Gaza. Where currently they are already starving for all kinds of things, but especially energy needs. Meanwhile, Abbas on Thursday was in Moscow: Abbas seeks $1 billion energy deal with Russia (Jerusalem Post, Jan. 24): An agreement on Palestinian natural gas and oil projects would restore warmer ties between the two Soviet-era allies.
by artappraiser on Fri, 01/24/2014 - 8:59pm
More from Remnick @ New Yorker's News Desk, a piece on the outtakes from the article: The Obama Tapes, Jan. 23. Here is the part on foreign policy:
by artappraiser on Sat, 01/25/2014 - 1:10am
Somewhat ironic to hear Obama saying a war in Syria would be a bad idea, since he was the putz who tried to drag us into war in Syria.
by Aaron Carine on Sat, 01/25/2014 - 8:54am
No, no, no! That was an eleventy-dimensional chess move, the King's gambit...that's where you sacrifice the King, and then,.... wait, what?
'
by jollyroger on Sat, 01/25/2014 - 10:00pm
Hey Hey Hairy Chest . . .
Please don't take this as me defending Obama and his administration's dealing so far in the Syrian mess.
But... Could you please direct me to your posts here at Dag dealing with what YOUR answer is to the Syrian debacle? Not what shouldn't be done. Not what has been done. No... What you think should be done to advance an eventual peaceful solution to the ongoing genocide and crimes against humanity by the various factions involved.
Thanks in advance.
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 2:08am
http://dagblog.com/reader-blogs/if-john-mccain-thinks-its-good-idea-16764
by jollyroger on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 4:01am
As for an actual recommendation, I go with partition. Make a Kurdish state out of the kurdish parts of Iraq, turkey and Syria. An alawite/christian druze rump along the coast, and let the Saudis take charge of the jihadist eastern part of Syria.
Not entirely satisfactory, but maybe the best that can be done to cut down he suffering.
Also, make an explicit alliance with Iran--the Shias are better than the Wahabbis. since we have destroyed the Baath seculars. I'd actually go back in time and support Nasser, but it's technologically too hard a lift, You need to put a black hole in your pocket to travel in time, and that's at least ten years off...
by jollyroger on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 4:06am
Oh yeah, also, cut Israel loose
http://dagblog.com/reader-blogs/israel-too-expensive-keep-petnot-housebr...
by jollyroger on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 4:08am
I was without internet when you originally posted this blog but its surprising to me that you would refer to it as if you are actually proud of it. One would think that thinking about it just a little after the distance of a few years it might have occurred to you how offensive and racist the post was. From the link.
In this case comparing human beings to dogs is always offensive and doesn't form part of civilized discourse. And in the case of Jewish people, talking about having them "put down" has a distinctly Hitlerian ring to it, don't you think? It disqualifies the rest of the post, which is harsh, but reasonably fair.
Anyway, you have really crossed all the frontiers and are way, way, way, out of bounds into David Dukedom... to such an extent that one, who is sufficiently paranoiac, might imagine you some sort of a Zionist-troll-agent-provocateur.
Hmmm.
Point well taken....
by jollyroger 9/19/2011
by ocean-kat on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 3:17pm
would refer to it as if you are actuallyproud of it.
At roughly 4 am I was unwilling to reproduce the collection of citations which set forth in greater detail my objections to Israeli policy in particular and to the Zionist predicate in particular.
The post is what it is--I continue to regard Israel as an American lapdog (less offensive than the pitbull metaphor? Perhaps) and I continue to agree that the usage (put down) was ill taken.
That said, continuing to bludgeon the Palestinians (and, in this instance, their advocate) rhetorically (and concretely) for the behavior of the Germans cramps discourse and misdirects remediation of wrongs
I will consider my "right of return" as a blessing not a curse when my semitic Arab cousins get the same accomodation.
The United Semitic Peoples' Kemalist Front: "One Semite, One Vote. One State, no Yahwists"
by jollyroger on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 4:04pm
Any political points you made, however valid they might be, are lost when conjoined with such offensive and imo racist imagery.
Frankly I was shocked by the blog since I generally like your posts.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 4:17pm
I have so thoroughly divorced the concept of Jewish people at large from Israel as a geo political actor that I completely missed the dangerous implications of "put down".
Remarkably obtuse, in retrospect, but there you are
Last time I will quote myself in this thread, but take "yes" for an answer, won't you?
by jollyroger on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 4:21pm
ok, nuff said
by ocean-kat on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 4:33pm
JR... Thanks for the reply. . .
I too have mulled over and gamed out the idea of partition. There comes both pluses and minuses with that scenario. For the non-combatant people currently on the ground there the minuses outweigh the pluses.
Thanks again... for the links and the reply.
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 6:35pm
Yes, partition is without doubt a surrender to sectarianism, small mindedness and backward thinking...indeed my approach to Israel/Palestine is precisely to reverse a partition now in place.
That said, I can't see my way through the shia/sunni thicket right now...I am so thoroughly secular that I really can't get my arms around the idea that butchering babies because their parents follow a different doctrine vis-a-vis the appropriate succession to Mohammed can make sense to anyone. OTOH, it used to be that in Europe the butchered each other over bread and wine vs. bread alone (and of course we burned witches in Salem...WTF??)
I guess my "solution" would be to outlaw any visible manifestation of religion--hence the Kemalist adjective in the United Semitic Peoples' KEMALIST Front
Edit to add: And if there were a pill that would extirpate the entire topic of religion from the mind, I would cheerfully support forced administration thereof...
by jollyroger on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 7:08pm
I don't understand how you cede to the notion, begrudgingly or otherwise, of a separate Kurdistan, when you are so vehemently opposed at the core to the concept of a Jewish state and a Palestinian state--regardless of circumstances on the ground as they exist here and now, and as they existed at the time of the partition vote in 1947. Would your view on an independent Kurdistan be the same if it involved the intentional or unintentional transfer of populations? I guess my question is whether your view is a product of Israel's treatment of Palestinians or if it really is such a core belief, and then in that case why a separate Kurdistan? And why break up Syria? I'm not saying it's the wrong approach, but I don't understand how the same logic wouldn't apply to the struggle between Israelis and Palestinians.
by Bruce Levine on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 8:37pm
1. The mechanics of the partition are crucial--I believe that a plebiscite is essential (as in East Timor) before a previously unitary territory can be divided. Also, the transition that I objected to in Israel/Palestine occurred outside of ANY form of popular sovereignty--one might envision, therefor, a partition of Syria in which the presently popularly elected Syrian government agreed. There was no such democratically (?) empowered assent given to the partition of Palestine in 1947, nor could there be because sovereignty passed from one empire (Ottoman) to another (British).
2. If a partition to which the peoples involved agreed involved transfer of ethnic minorities, I would be unhappy but obliged to accept if communitarian violence were the alternative. We need only look to the Russian remnant populations in now independent former USSR states for the festering problems that remain in the absence of population transfers, and any such scheme would need to include extra generous compensation to the displaced. I would expect that the resources needed therefor would be easily found in the benefits from foregone costs of continued violence
by jollyroger on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 8:48pm
I'm not supporting population transfers anywhere, but I was trying to figure out how much what took place on the ground in 1948 and what is taking place now is the basis for your position on two states for two peoples--or whatever the latest jingle is.
by Bruce Levine on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 9:10pm
I assume you are aware of this... Right?
From Rueters - Jan 22, 2014. It's a is very long detailed report.
Amid Syria's violence, Kurds carve out autonomy
--snip--
--snip--
--snip--
---
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 12:20am
Yeah--The Kurds are famously the largest ethnicity without their own country. The Turks, of course, will have a lot to say about any sort of union of the three Kurdish territories...
by jollyroger on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 2:21am
Russian analyst on Russia &Turkey on Syria & the Kurds, Jan. 26:
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/01/russia-kurdistan-regio...
by artappraiser on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 6:28am
Ah yes... Turkey and the Russians . . .
From Artappraiser's link:
And how "calm" will the Russians remain if the Syrian Kurds decide to secede?
Let me state again what I said about the Russians up thread.
Screw the Russians.
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 6:22pm
I thought you were about to say something about Iran, the other place of Kurds.
by moat on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 6:31pm
yeah, them too...Thing is, if you put together all (four!) kurdish areas, you pretty much have the headwaters of all the agriculturally important rivers in the region. Thus raising the stakes, as it were...
by jollyroger on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 7:29pm
There it is.
by moat on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 7:31pm
I don't think we're required to come up with a solution to Syria. If we know that military intervention is a bad idea, that is enough. Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing.
by Aaron Carine on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 8:20am
Howdy... I'm not requiring YOU to do anything . . .
Please point to where I requested YOU to come up with a solution. I am totally unaware that my post was directed to YOU. I wasn't in conversation with any one else than Jollyroger. Jollyroger was kind enough to answer to my humble request. I don't see the need for you to speak for Jollyrodger. Although I do understand your position and respect your POV... but . . .
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 6:40pm
So I should speak only when spoken to, huh? We're free to comment on anything posted here--whether there is a "need" for it, I can't say.
by Aaron Carine on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 8:44pm
Take it easy there Kimosabe . . .
You can speak and post whenever you damn well please. I didn't tell you you couldn't. You can dance a Cajun shuffle in a tutu in a Willys in four wheel drive for all I care. I'm not requiring of you to comment or not to comment. I don't give a big crap if you DO comment. I don't give a big crap if you DON'T comment. I wasn't in conversation with any one else other than Jollyroger. Jollyroger was kind enough to answer to my humble request. Now maybe I should run along and kick my dog. Sheesh . . .
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 11:51pm
You made a big stink about my commenting on what you had said to Roger. That indicated that you did give a crap. So what were being so snippy about if you didn't care what I did?
by Aaron Carine on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 7:11pm
Go play with your puppy... or cat... whichever...
You can have the last word. And I'm quite sure you'll take it...
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Tue, 01/28/2014 - 1:31am
I'll take it - it seemed strange for someone to expect on a public blog that his comment be treated as a private missive, and get so pissy when someone comments. Blogs tend to encourage group comments - that's why an open comment section, rather than closed like Andrew Sullivan's as an example.
Even here, my jumping in is not so remarkable on the blogosphere - but will probably offend your expectations.
My first thought when I saw your response above was "get a room", sorry to disturb your privacy. (And Aaron in particular tends to stay on topic & keeps away from ad hominems. I found it strange that he was the one who stepped on this landmine)
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 01/28/2014 - 1:57am
by Resistance on Wed, 01/29/2014 - 3:48am
Sharks circling?
No quote from the Big Book? You're losing your touch.
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Thu, 01/30/2014 - 5:58am
Yawn . . . I like pie...
Isn't there a more stimulating ongoing meta thread here at Dag about "apes" to keep you busy?
Do you like pie?
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Thu, 01/30/2014 - 6:12am
Isn't there some glurge you should be tweeting instead of resurrecting 2-day old comments? Somewhere on the intertubez a cat feels neglected.
Do you like Nasi Goreng?
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 01/30/2014 - 8:05am
Listening to the SOTU in the background while working, my ears perked up when he 'splained the new revised narrative on all that. It's not eleventy dimension stuff anymore. It's a very simple story now. The applicable excerpt with my bold (from the NYT transcript):
As far as red lines, I think that might still be more eleventy. There's red lines and then there's vermillion lines, and then there's scarlet, crimson and carmine. All depends on what you mean by red....
by artappraiser on Wed, 01/29/2014 - 3:49am
That was a good read. Thanks.
by EmmaZahn on Sat, 01/25/2014 - 7:52pm
good to hear it was useful to you, Emma.
by artappraiser on Wed, 01/29/2014 - 3:50am
I found it reassuring that Obama is so mindful of how history will judge his presidency, almost as if he has moved beyond desire for current approval and in a far better way than some in his predecessor's administration.
by EmmaZahn on Wed, 01/29/2014 - 11:25am
This less recent article about Haaretz by Remnick bookends well I think with the current piece--which I've not quite finished yet. Great description of the internal goings-on of the newspaper in terms of how it would respond to Arab Spring developments in Cairo and the overthrow of Mubarek:
. . .
Better still perhaps, here's what Remnick wrote last March after the president made his first trip to Israel, i.e. since becoming president. Remnick's at a magazine "off-the-cuff" event with Susan Rice, about whom he wrote:
Then, check out what Remnick wrote about the White House's response to a tweet about his little informal gathering (with Susan Rice and a bunch of reporters in a public place!). What I find compelling is the spin/explanation (whatever) being offered by the Administration at that time, about the importance of talks between Palestinians and Israelis (again with focus on the "feeling" that the Adminitration and Obama were acting on:
Interesting that discussions have continued with Sec. Kerry really put everything he has in keeping them going, and while at the same time he is actively engaged pursuing talks with the Iranians and participating then also at the time with the negotiations over Syria. Really kind of an ambitious schedule and makes for a real important data point for that office going forward (as compared to those inside the WH or at defense, etc). Fascinating, and truly so I think, if you're into the evolution of various offices in the Executive Branch over time.
Haven't heard much about those negotiations except for the occasional quote frp, this or that person on either side on the state of things. That issue was addressed at at talk at I was at my synagogue on Friday night by one of the members who works on ME stuff at the UN. To him, that we've heard so little substantively on those ongoing talks is a net positive because it means that they are, all things equal, serious negotiations. He took questions and I asked him about how he felt about Israel's defense minister's incomprehensible decision to mouth off about what he called the Secretary's "messianic" commitment to 2-state negotiations, etc. He paused, smiled, and said that he had read the Administration's response.
by Bruce Levine on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 2:03pm
On the Kerry talks, I found the original Remnick article most helpful, it actually made much more sense of them working at those at this time. (Though I suspected it may be the case, to be honest, I never know with this administration, and that's one of its bad points, mho. They just don't communicate rhyme or reason that well in a lot of cases. Often the opposite of transparent, for whatever reason.)
These are the two applicable graphs, my bold:
So it's part and parcel of being prepared for "the new equilibrium. You just have to keep them talking, that's all that matters right now. Because something may happen that creates a new paradigm, and then they are already set up talking. There is no intentional result, it's just: keep them talking, especially at this turbulent time in regional history.
What I thought of immediately when I read those graphs is ye olde Mideast autocrat tradition of using the "Zionist enemy" bogeyman and the Palestinian plight and sometimes anti-Semitism as well to deflect the people's interest away from their own (and Palestinians!) suffering under the autocracies (The syndrome well-described in this 2010 article by Jordanian Palestinian Mudar Zahran.) The reason for the talks: be ready for the possibility that some of that may be unwound with all the turmoil. Previously, the attitude that Israel had no right to exist was always there, being used for all kinds of other purposes. With some of those purposes disappearing, and new alliances formed, if talks are already going on, they could actually end up talking about actual practical issues.
by artappraiser on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 6:54am
Always comes to mind every time these folks talk of peace
3 While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then zsudden destruction will come upon them aas labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
1 Thessalonians 5:3
Peace for the Palestinians and Security for Israel?????
by Resistance on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 8:32am
Yes, and it's better than the alternative...which is what, anyway?
by Peter Schwartz on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 8:40am
I think it's hard to argue with the notion that, generally speaking, if the goal is to obtain a negotiated settlement, then the first goal of the neutrals is to try to continue negotiations. Looks like Kerry's been able to do that so far, and perhaps to the consternation of some of the diehards on both sides, such as the outrageous remarks of Israel's Defense Minister Yaalon that I referred to in my initial comment.
So in that sense it's a good thing, i.e. continued negotiations. That we're not hearing that much in terms of where negotiations are seems also to add a positive element to the status of what is being negotiated. It just seems to me that the leadership on both sides of the deal lack the political will to go an extra step. In Bibi's case, I suppose he thinks he needs the Yaalons of the world to maintain his coalition, and perhaps he's right about that. I mean we're still talking about the same basic issues that had been tentatively agreed to back in 2000 and early 2001-- it's just the political will to sign on the dotted line.
by Bruce Levine on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 2:00pm
t's just the political will to sign
And I was trying to point out that Israeli political will might change once the politics of some surrounding states do not depend upon the states involved creating an enemy bogeyman out of Israel. The Egypt example shows that that doesn't even have to involve a major change in the public perceptions in such countries, just that the states themselves have to stop officially stoking it.
by artappraiser on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 3:09pm
What's wrong with this picture? For me it's the breezy willingness to cut up the pie to protect this and that minority...to keep this group away from that group...to judge this horrible group better (at least) than that horrible group...coupled with a sort of white man's exhaustion at trying to fix the place and a resignation that this cutting up is the best that can be done...finishing with cutting Israel loose.
In what way are the Israelis fundamentally more trouble to us than the Shias and Wahabbis or Alawites...or dictators like Assad...or religious tyrants like the Sauds and Khameinis? In fact, don't they do a lot more FOR us than an Assad or a Saud or a Khameini or even a Erdogan? Or someone like Nasser?
If we're willing to tolerate all these other pesky religious minorities and accommodate to their demands and assure them their rump state, why and how is this so different from doing the same for Israel? The Palestinians? You mean Assad hasn't slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and plain old Syrians? What about the Sauds their Shia minority?
I would argue that there's a "demographic might makes right" argument underlying posts like this that goes something like this: "We can't get rid of the Alawites or the Shias or the Wahabbis; their numbers give them a might that makes their cause, if not right, then immovable. But the Jews, we know they can be moved. Having been quite the people on the move for many years."
When it comes to Israel, the left becomes very moral. When it comes to the rest of the Middle East, it becomes very realistic. "Hey, I don't like partition any more than the next guy, but whaddya gonna do with those people? They've been fighting like cats and dogs for millennia. But Jews are kinda like white people; they ought to know better and know how to act civilized."
Anyone for "putting down" the House of Saud? They are the proximate cause of 911.
by Peter Schwartz on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 9:02pm
Anyone for "putting down" the House of Saud?
Common ground achieved at last....
by jollyroger on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 9:06pm
But as Rand Paul noted today...the parcel has got to be just a sliver.
by Peter Schwartz on Sun, 01/26/2014 - 9:45pm
BTW, part of my objection to our cultivation of Israel as a "forward base" is precisely all the things they do for us...I believe that they are drafted into support of the imperialist project (Chalmers Johnson, where are you when we need you?) to the detriment, long term, of their own interests, the interests of the region, of world peace, and the deformation of fundamental Jewish humanitarianism.
Edit to add: (Disclaimer: Hopeless pursuit of the impossible alert) My "solution" is to abolish national sovereignty entirely, and lodge the monopoly on the use of force in a world government (Wheee-here come the black copters)
by jollyroger on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 3:29pm
I don't like this "forward base" idea, either.
World government?
Isn't Jesus supposed to come back and claim dominion over the world?
That'll send the states' righters around the bend!
P
by Peter Schwartz on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 4:29pm
That'll send the states' righters around the bend!
They appear to be remarkably oblivious to the shitstorm that will rain down on them when that righteous Jew gets to wailin' on their demonic ass...otherwise they wouldn't be so anxious for end of times.
by jollyroger on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 5:02pm
fundamental Jewish humanitarism
by jollyroger on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 4:54pm
Clearing the killing field?
While all the talking and negotiations are ongoing...
OPCW-UN Joint Mission in the Syrian Arab Republic
One more step in the right direction?
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 3:24pm
I would have to say yes.
by Peter Schwartz on Mon, 01/27/2014 - 7:13pm
I do too... And . . .
I wonder what level that is of Obama's "eleventy-dimensional chess move" as one here at Dag likes to say?
~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Tue, 01/28/2014 - 1:41am
Chess might the wrong analogy.
Basketball is better, and not just because he plays it.
You start with a plan and a goal, but you remain flexible as the situation evolves... often quickly and you have to respond quickly.
by Peter Schwartz on Wed, 02/19/2014 - 4:59pm
Syria: some reasons why it's not a "best left alone to sort itself out" situation:
by artappraiser on Tue, 02/11/2014 - 10:38pm
The meddling by foreign powers isn't making things any better.
by Aaron Carine on Wed, 02/12/2014 - 7:14am
From
Deadlock Remains and Aid Crisis Mounts as 2nd Round of Syria Talks Nears End
By Anne Barnard, New York Times, Feb. 14, 2014
by artappraiser on Mon, 02/17/2014 - 12:50am
by artappraiser on Mon, 02/17/2014 - 10:01pm
My bold:
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/19/2014 - 1:39pm
excerpts from Jeffrey Goldberg, Iran is Getting Away with Murder, theatlantic.com, Dec. 30, 2014
by artappraiser on Thu, 01/01/2015 - 6:25am