The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age
    Elusive Trope's picture

    Something Happened in Chicago I Hear

    By Elusive Trope on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:37am |

    Another high profile political event came and went.  This time it was NATO in Chicago.  Some leaders met.  Some people hit the streets to protest and have their voices heard.  There was some clashes between police and protesters.  Some people were hurt, some were arrested, some were hurt and arrested.  The media took pictures and wrote stories about the leaders and the protests outside. 

    I know I am in some ways burned out about it all when the first thought is: the more things change, the more they stay the same.

    I am glad there were folks who took the time to protest the war.  Just as I am increasingly irritated by the idiot Black Bloc protesters.  My expectations for the leaders of NATO was low, so there was no disappointment there.  Somehow for me, the following blog entry at the Chicago Tribune says something about just what it is we're facing:

    Judith Olson was sipping wine at Bennigan's outdoor seating on Michigan Avenue when she noticed riot police lining up on the steps of the Art Institute across the street.

    "I thought, 'this could get interesting,'" she said. Moments later protesters rounded the corner and began marching up the avenue.

    "It was a bunch of kids, running and shouting, so it was a little intimidating."

    But soon Olson was filming the marchers.

    "It's made my evening a little more interesting," said Olson, a visiting nurse who lives a few blocks away and had seen the protesters throughout the week. She even  planned a day of shopping knowing the shops on the Magnificent Mile would be empty.

    "I just intuitively never felt threatened," she said, regarding the stalled traffic and riot police just a few feet from the half-empty al fresco dining area. "But the stores must be doing terrible. I feel awful for the businesses."

    It was accompanied with the following pic:

    Comments

    Something happened in Boston 

    Paul Revere's Engraving of the Boston Massacre


    by Resistance on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:05pm

    Not exactly comparable-

    Chicago police erase 1968 stain at last with NATO summit

    By Andrew Stern
    CHICAGO | Tue May 22, 2012 9:18pm EDT

    (Reuters) - The NATO summit ended without major violence between police and protesters, winning praise for Chicago Police Chief Garry McCarthy and helping erase bad memories of the bloody street battles here during the 1968 Democratic convention....


    by artappraiser on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:18pm

    Just a matter of time 

     


    by Resistance on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:33pm

    probably not--more from the article:

    ....But experts said NATO summit protesters angry about the war in Afghanistan got to have their say, while the Chicago police were restrained, and always seemed to be one step ahead of the demonstrators.

    "My analysis is there was ... free speech, and in response to that there was appropriate law enforcement. There may have been some things at the margins," said Harvey Grossman, head of the American Civil Liberties Union in Chicago, which sent observers to accompany most of the protests.

    Over a week of daily rallies and marches, police made fewer than 100 arrests, most charged with minor infractions and released within hours. Roughly two dozen protesters were injured Sunday following the largest demonstration of the week....

    Other cops, other cities, will follow their lead. Why should they want another outcome? There is no "silent majority" resentment of protesting college students as there was back then (note there was very little support for an wacko campus cop with a chip on his shoulder and a fondness for pepper spray, just the opposite.)

    BTW, you've been sounding like a gleeful hell and damnation preacher again, anxiously hoping for armaggedon/hellfire violent revolution. It's curious that you continue to believe that's still going to happen when it didn't happen at the worst point of the recession. The pitchforks have even disappeared from TPM avatars. People will mostly signify their displeasure with their voting in November, however that ends up.

    If it's more like you're wishing it would happen, as the tone of a lot of your comments make it seem, then I've got only one reply: Romans 12:19.


    by artappraiser on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:57pm

    Your reply is improperly applied.  

    Art It is not revenge, it is insight

    THIS IS NOT MY WAR.  I DO NOT HOPE FOR REVOLUTION....     ITS COMING ON ITS OWN.

    THAT TOO WAS PROPHESIED   

    Daily events prove, the course is set. I don't control the rudder.  

    I'm the person in the crows nest, looking for the reefs, for danger ahead.   

    Look around, the events that are unfolding are not my product, I am only an observer. The chronicle of these events were foretold

    I do not look forward to the day of reckoning; when justice will be meted out to the oppressors.

    Just as a birthing mother would rather avoid the pain;  I can’t stop the birth from occurring and there’s no way to abort,  what I am not in control of

    I can’t stop the events about to unfold 

     

    On this voyage a North star is not needed, only insight  

    4 points to look for, as we navigate through history.

    (You want to know the future)  

    1) “The beast that was given the death stroke was League of Nation

    2)The beast that makes all those upon the earth worship it, is the United Nations.

    3)If you don’t meet the United Nations demands, you will have sanctions imposed, you will not be able to buy or sell

    4)America and its allies ARE  the military, the enforcer, the mighty army of the beast “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?” 

    We outspend every other Nation on the planet, because that is our role in the scheme  

     

    Revelation 13

                ………. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast. And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?”

    (Revelation 13:1-4 ESV)

                Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it,    

    (Revelation 13:7-8 ESV)

                Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed. …….it deceives those who dwell on earth, ……….. the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked …………. so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark,  

    (Revelation 13:11-18 ESV)


    by Resistance on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:39pm

    The chronicle of these events were foretold

    Thus no one has free will.  Events will occur as they are suppose to occur as part of God's plan.  So everyone just be like Resistance and observe - for this is part of God's plan.  God has sent Resistance to get us to do nothing but observe the unfolding.  All hail Resistance the Great Observer!


    by Elusive Trope on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:59pm

    Of course you have free will. You get a choice, who you'll listen to. 

    You're free to choose.  A wide and spacious road leading to death or the narrow one leading to Life. 

    Come into the light or stay in the darkness, it's your choice.


    by Resistance on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 2:37am

    If there is choice for each yet to be made, then it is unknown what that choice will be, and therefore the nature of future events are unknown, and therefore cannot be foretold.


    by Elusive Trope on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 9:19am

    Imagine a  Tsunami alert has been sounded, what will you do?

    If there is choice for each yet to be made, 

    You have a choice; ........

    Stand there like a fool and be swept away; or seek escape from the pending doom.    

    then it is unknown what that choice will be

    The only unknown left to ponder.

    You've heard the Tsunami alarm, you are now forewarned  

    What will YOU do?

    Will you act the fool or escape the pending forewarned; 

    THE KNOWN EVENT  the Tsunami is coming.

    As unpleasant as it is, it's coming 


    by Resistance on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 1:34pm

    I can't think of any Christian expression of belief that doesn't insist upon the importance of personal choice. But there is and has long been a very large area of disagreement between believers over the idea of predestination.

    I have encountered many who promulgate the historical vision you behold whenever the opportunity presents itself. But you are the only one I have heard from who combines this point of view with a call for political activism to change our form of life to one that would be more just and good. The latter sensibility is only coherent if it lives through the assumption that there is a future and it is our responsibility to make it what we should. 

    Since the poles of your rhetoric are so diametrically opposed, it is difficult for me to imagine the speaker as a single person.


    by moat on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 7:04pm

    I am torn apart, because the flesh is weak, so I have this constant battle inside; between the flesh and the spirit.

    My fleshly desires, wants to help the widows and orphans, it wants to alleviate the pain and suffering  DO SOMETHING PEOPLE. "Why aren't you listening Senator...... Mr president

    "Do Something, help the homeowners, save us from financial ruin, so I can give more to help others in need" 

    Stop killing innocent people.   

    But the spirit reminds me,

    these things are occurring, because this world belongs to the wicked one, he is the ruler of this world. and it is not his objective, to solve mankind problems, in fact he feeds off the misery. 

    He's a vicious ruler, instigating wars and genocide are his trademark. Exterminating Gods people is his mission.   

    He's the reason, widows and orphans are ignored and the suffering is multiplying and the corruption of our political system, can not be reigned in. 

    The wicked ruler of this world has his organization (seed) too deeply entrenched and his control, is not for the betterment of mankind; far from it it.

    His intentions are to make our lives miserable, preoccupied and anxious about tomorrow, in order to separate our love from God. 

    He knows he's going down, he's taking as many as he can before the Great Tribulation and he hopes to take as many with him the day of the Great and final battle. 

    Fleshly desires are not a new thing to mortal man; but living in accord with the spirit, is not easy, it takes work.   

    If you're torn, between two desires (Flesh or Spirit)  like I am; it's that much harder.

    My hope for a political solution, is rapidly fading. 

    As each day appears to be closer, to a great tribulation for many of Earths inhabitants. 

    Promises of hope, by fleshly rulers, are just empty promises.   


    by Resistance on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:57pm

    I disagree with the suggestion that taking responsibility for our future is a pursuit devoid of Spirit. But it is not my place to pass judgment on your experience of serving two masters.

    In regards to your fellow servants, however, it does seem that you need to make a choice and to abide by it. If we are on a sinking ship, you can either toil side by side with those who would keep it afloat or help out the team lowering the lifeboats so they can get away.


    by moat on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 10:52am

    If we are on a sinking ship, you can either toil side by side with those who would keep it afloat

    If we are on a sinking ship; Lower the lifeboats. 

    it does seem that you need to make a choice and to abide by it.

    I don't see it as an either/ or 

    So because I scream, for more life preservers, more lifeboats, doesn't mean I have to toil side by side, with ship savers, knowing full well its a useless and futile exercise 

    toil side by side with those who would keep it afloat

    The bucket brigade is working frantically, but its more and more apparent, the foul and murky water, is going to overtake the effort.    

    Many who are toiling, haven't looked below the murky water. They don't see what I see. 

    There's a big defect in the construction of the ship. The very foundation is corrupted, rusted out. Not seen by most because the white paint has covered the rust   

    Despite their cry; "Everyone pitch in; save the sinking ship, we have so much invested in her" 

    I cry out "Abandon ship. Where are the lifeboats"  I can clearly see many will suffer anguish, before they drown.

    A reply is heard "The ship cut costs, there are not enough lifeboats"  


    by Resistance on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:05pm

    You make it sound like the matter is either/or. If you do not wish to toil along side those who would save the ship, your choice should be clear.

    Bon voyage. I am staying with the bucket brigade.


    by moat on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 1:19pm

     Moat, .....you’re the one, that made it an either/or  

    you can either       toil side by side with those who would keep it afloat     or     help out the team lowering the lifeboats so they can get away.     by moat 5/24/2012 - 10:52 am 

    Moat ?  In the next posting you find fault with the choices you chose

    You make it sound like the matter is either/or.   by moat 5/24/2012 - 1:19 pm 

    No Moat you did in the earlier post.

     

    Go ahead Moat,  stay with the sinking ship, that’s what freewill is.  

    As the ship goes down; ignorance is bliss, up until facts hit you squarely; 

    "Put your faith in the bucket brigade" Moat cried 

    You and others will come to the realization. You all should have gotten off sooner and maybe more lives would be saved.

     

    Do you wish to save lives? Or support a dying and sinking system. 

     

    Reminding me of the scripture that says "GET OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SUFFER HER PAINS 

    As the ship sinks, it sucks down everyone who didn't escape.

    What will the bucket brigade say; when they realize too late "WE SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN OFF THE SINKING SHIP" 

    What can they say

    "Sorry, we convinced you all to stay on board a sinking ship" "Even though we were warned" "We scoffed at the warnings and now we'll suffer for it." 

    It's of little consolation, to those who were suckered into believing, "put faith in us; stay on board, grab a bucket, have hope we can change the scenario. 

    Put faith in the government again, for the millionth time, one of these times we'll deliver as promised.  


    by Resistance on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 6:03pm

    You seem to have lost the thread of the conversation we started with.

    Yes, I said the choice was either/or. You then said you didn't see it that way. I then pointed out you had not presented anything that made it more complicated. You then replied using the ship analogy to emphasize how you will have nothing to do with those who believe our world can be saved by our efforts. What part of either/or do you not understand?

    Since you believe they are futile, please refrain from espousing progressive causes or movements in the future. 

     


    by moat on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 6:56pm

    Excuse me your highness. 

    You act like a jerk.....  I'll espouse any values that I think those in power should consider.

    There is no reason, to not ask those in a position of power, to help those in need, during this time period. 

    "Give us a lifeboat" Just as they did the first class. 

    Maybe I can appeal to their senses; because God knows, I cant afford to bribe them.


    by Resistance on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 8:48pm

    In this situation I am in, I ask myself: WWJD? I do strongly believe what he would do is say: true followers of my father should not rely upon on the nearly heretical Book of Revelation later addition to my New Testament, and should instead be relying on my word in the Gospels of my actual apostles. And I would add: beware of anyone constantly quoting the Book of Revelation; often they are not very "Christian," but more interested in things like magic and prophesy.


    by artappraiser on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:38am

    The Book of Revelation is a template for the chain letter:

    And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. — Revelation 22:19


    by Verified Atheist on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:45am

    Verrry interesting. Chain letter......or Old Testament-y style threat (i.e. fear, fear, fear is the only thing that will really keep them humans in check.)


    by artappraiser on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 3:05pm

    Fear is a tool used by demons.

    Give the pretense of self- determination; when in reality you serve the beast spoken of in Revelation.

    The winner of this election will be ........the one that serves the wicked ones plan. 

    fear is the only thing that will really keep them humans in check

    You're correct AA fear does keep HUMANS in check; 

     as opposed to humans keeping in mind, the machinations of the wicked spirit forces and it's army of supporters. 

    "Elect Obama or else"   for fear Romney will win 

    Either ruler will serve the designed purpose of the wicked one, whether they know it or not. 

    THEY WILL BE MANIPULATED TO SERVE. 

    Think about it

    How many nukes do we really need? Are we mad or is it the original serpent who doesn't care, the amount of flesh that can be destroyed. Anger is his motivation and we're his victims 

    Man doesn't control the events, despite his claims he can  

    Man is just the throw away puppet, to serve a manslayer. 


    by Resistance on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 4:43pm

    Did a bit of checking, and interestingly, it turns out that the translations of that verse have always been very controversial,  basically owing to Erasmus' rush job on Revelation. See  third paragraph here for a start. Just thought I'd share that.


    by artappraiser on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 11:43pm

    I didn't see that particular verse mentioned, but I did see implications of violations of that verse… (Maybe you provided the wrong link?)


    by Verified Atheist on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 6:22am

    If ignorance is bliss and you enjoy bliss..... by all means, that's your freewill, that's your choice 

    I do strongly believe what he would do

    That's YOUR problem AA; what you believe is not based upon the truth. 

    should instead be relying on my word in the Gospels of my actual apostles.

    John the writer of Revelations, was one of the original apostles. 

    When the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus's day became uncomfortable with Jesus's message and they wanted the people to remain unaware of unpleasant realities.(3)

    Jesus was tortured and murdered, because he preached that the temple would be destroyed. Warning those in Jerusalem, who would listen, be on the watch, when certain events WILL occur, FLEE,  GET OUT OF THE CITY  Those who listened escaped destruction.    

    Salvation and deliverance from calamity, is the reward for listening. The truth is what sets you free. 

    You and Atheist speak of your own beliefs, based upon lack of knowledge or understanding or prejudice  

    The term ignorance is bliss aptly applies; 

    because it's easier when you don't know the whole truth about something and can be blissfully happy, unaware of unpleasant realities.

    Bury your head AA, ignore the reality. 

    Your admonition to be wary of those quoting Revelations; proves your lack of scriptural knowledge.

    The book of Daniel tells truth seekers, the significance of the golden image, with the ten toes made of clay and iron, that frightened Nebuchadnezzar.

    Those who want understanding, are pleased to learn; The book of "Revelations"  to reveal and support Daniel's recorded words.

    Lovers of truth are blessed with the knowledge, revealed about the mystery of the golden image and the meaning and significance of the ten toes made of iron and clay how it points to our generation.   

     "And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. ........... but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.

    And in the days of those kings (1) the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end(2) , and it shall stand forever,
      
    (Daniel 2:41-44 ESV)

    (1) Kings plural.... United Nations

    Daniel wouldn't have know the completeness and how the governments, controlled by the dragon and beast would eventually manifest itself; only that those days "iron and clay"  would try to mix  but to no avail.

    (2) to an end  .........an unpleasant reality, if your a supporter of the beast (3) 


    by Resistance on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 1:15pm

    Just so you know - I don't believe the Bible you quote is the word of God.  Just some spiritual writing of human beings.  Doesn't mean there isn't some truth, spiritual or otherwise, to be gleaned from it.  But it ain't The Truth.  So as far I am concerned, you're just going blah blah blah blah.


    by Elusive Trope on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 1:22pm

    It doesn't surprise me to learn, that many are blind to the events foretold and are unable to discern when the events occur in support of the truthfulness of the prophecy and it's fulfillment.

    If you don't know what your looking for; you'll never see, what you should have been looking for. 

    Keep traveling the road you desire.  

    For me, I have a destination; I will observe the signs, in order to not get lost.

    The Bible is my compass. If I get sidetracked, I reach for it and it guides me again. "Destination.... recalibrating" 


    by Resistance on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 2:01pm

    Fine.  I have no problem with you using it to guide you - to each their own.  Just don't require me to use it as a guide.  The danger is that you fall into the absolute faith, that does not allow in the light of doubt that maybe, just maybe, it is you who is traveling the road you desire, blinded by that desire, and unable to see what it is that is really there (if any of us really can). 

    Comparing it to a GPS system in your car is just an analogy and as with all analogies they only go so far in terms of accuracy and relevance.  Like comparing the coming events to a tsunami.  The coming event isn't a physical wave moving across the ocean, it the unfolding actions taken by people based on perceptions and decisions that have yet to occur.  You can believe you can know how x will react to y based on y's reaction to z, who was reacting to d and b, which were a result of decisions by f and m, which were influenced by p and n, that were made worse by an earlier action taken by x.  You can believe you can refer to this as a tsunami, when it really isn't. 


    by Elusive Trope on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 3:41pm

    Really?

     it is you who is traveling the road you desire, blinded by that desire, and unable to see what it is that is really there.

    http://dagblog.com/reader-blogs/something-happened-chicago-i-hear-13791#comment-154878

    Should I provide images of World Wars  or starvation in Africa?

    What more images do you need to see, before you take off the blinders and realize, the world is the hands of a mad man spirit   

    An angry spirit creature, cast down to the Earth, knowing he has a short time. 

    Unless you believe your the only creature in your known Universe?


    by Resistance on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 4:34pm

    When has there been a time when there was no war and starvation in the world?  The mad spirit has been here from the beginning. The line of species that became homo sapien sapien actually was reduced to one tribe in southern Africa, a massive drought making almost all of Africa completely uninhabitable.  Much starvation.  Then things got a little better and they began to migrate north, eventually wiping out such folks as the Neanderthals.

    The dinosaurs knew the mad spirit quite well - or do you not believe in those mythical creatures of long ago?


    by Elusive Trope on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 4:43pm

    Are you serious?  

    How observant you are, the world has had plenty of wars.  

    Do you know why scholars  called it WORLD WAR  ONE (1)

    (ONE? Despite the fact the world had many before this ONE.   

    and if that wasn't enough misery, death and destruction....  UTTER MADNESS.

    Why not have another WORLD WAR  TWO (2) asif one wasnt enough

    Purpose for the madness:  To bring forth a body to prevent another WAR  

    Lets call it "THE UNITED NATIONS"  In order for the beast to consolidate POWER.

    "The beast will keep us safe";  "All hail the beast" let us bow down. 


    by Resistance on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 5:00pm

    Read A Distant Mirror by Barbara Tuchman and then get back to me.  Obviously you are someone who has very little inkling about the history of human society. 


    by Elusive Trope on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 5:00pm

    Obviously you are someone who has very little inkling about the  the enmity; that has continued to this day, since the founding of the Earth. 

    War will settle once and for all this enmity. 


    by Resistance on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 5:07pm

    who found it? 


    by Elusive Trope on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 5:16pm

    Xenu


    by Verified Atheist on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 5:27pm

    Not to be confused with XENU, a Mexican AM radio station located in Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas.


    by Elusive Trope on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 5:38pm

    cheekyyes Good one!


    by artappraiser on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 5:38pm

    The Book of Revelation was written by John of Patmos, who was not one of the original apostles (you're thinking of this John). Get your facts straight before accusing others of ignorance.


    by Verified Atheist on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 2:56pm

    I suppose many will be misled by your lies. 

    You find support from a link that supports your prejudice.

    You're not interested in true facts.

    In your scheming mind,  any old biased fact, with the intent to discredit me, will do.

    Casting doubt, in order to confuse and mislead, is not a new technique, its been used for eons by Satan and his demons, who get fleshly subjects to be his tools, to support his ruler ship in opposition to the rightful Sovereign.    

    Thing is; I see the strings attached to you and you don't;  or if you do see them. its possible, you willing serve the Dragon (the original serpent) who wants to destroy as many humans as he can, before he's finally beaten and thrown into the abyss.  


    by Resistance on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 3:24pm

    Seriously, dude, sometimes your fire and brimstone shtick gets a little tiresome.  I mean, how do you know you're not serving the true Dragon by getting people to get all worked up about revelations and all that? 


    by Elusive Trope on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 3:45pm

    Dude. I don't know of any (modern) educated Christians (including any of the other Christian dagbloggers, who I encourage to contradict me if I'm wrong) that think that the John who wrote the Book of Revelation was the same John of the Apostles. I was taught in Sunday School class that these were not the same people. You do know that John is not an uncommon name, don't you?

    If someone is acting the part of Satan the Deceiver here, it's you. I admit who I am, but you pretend to be something you're not.

    Here is some historical context to suggest that, yes, once upon a time some educated people used to think these were the same John. Still, that theory is no longer subscribed to by most Christians.

    (I also note that John the Evangelist and John the Apostle are evidently thought to be two different people, which I did not realize, or had forgotten about if I had known it.)


    by Verified Atheist on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 3:57pm

    I would warn any others, to stay clear of the Antichrist and his surrogates. 


    by Resistance on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 3:57pm

    Which is exactly what the Antichrist and his surrogates would say. Isn't that convenient?


    by Verified Atheist on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 4:07pm


    by Elusive Trope on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 4:13pm

    Ignorance is bliss? 


    by Resistance on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 4:30pm

    The Unknown
    As we know,
    There are known knowns.
    There are things we know we know.
    We also know
    There are known unknowns.
    That is to say
    We know there are some things
    We do not know.
    But there are also unknown unknowns,
    The ones we don't know
    We don't know.

    --D.H. Rumsfeld

     


    by Elusive Trope on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 4:45pm

    Great poem.

    Never heard of the poet, though.

    Which era did he live in?


    by Peter Schwartz on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 10:15pm

    I got it from this Slate article


    by Elusive Trope on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 11:52am

    But he's been right here all along on Dagblog's Smiley Set >>>devil


    by artappraiser on Wed, 05/23/2012 - 5:42pm

    Did Obama authorize? 

    Something happened in America? 


    by Resistance on Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:29pm

    Well, I thought Emma's thread on the Jewish war on Christianity in America was weird, but this one really takes a prize.

    Resistance, if you haven't already, I recommend Flannery O'Connor's novel, Wise Blood. I think you'll get something out of it.

    In Judaism, there is the yezter hara, the evil impulse, but I'm not sure we put much stock in Satan, even though it is a Hebrew word, I believe.

    I tend to think that Satan is really a projection of the yezter hara. We can't accept that we have evil impulses inside us, so we project them outward onto a "scape goat" with whom we then do battle.

    The advantage is we get to hold onto our pure nature and avoid full responsibility for our thoughts, feelings and actions. After all, the devil made me do it. Of course, we are responsible for doing battle with Satan, but we don't have to take responsibility for Satan's actions in the world.

    It's hard being a human being.


    by Peter Schwartz on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 10:14pm

    How does the Jewish religion explain  

    —Genesis 3:14-16

    I will put enmity between you and the woman,
    and between your offspring and her offspring;
    he shall bruise your head,
    and you shall bruise his heel.”

    It is the main theme of the bible, this enmity. 

    As a Christian, I have understood this scripture as the conversation with the serpent; the Devil, Satan;  after he lied and caused the death of Adam and Eve 

    Satan has his seed or offspring

    God has his seed and offspring.

    Abraham was promised;  the seed would come from his loins 

    The enmity eventually ends, when the one who bruised his heal comes back and he gives the final blow; a lethal head wound to the opposer, the serpent as now represented as the Dragon in Revelations  who searches out, in order to destroy gods Children before,  he is destroyed for ever.


    by Resistance on Thu, 05/24/2012 - 11:13pm

    It's about man clubbing snakes' heads, and snakes biting man's heels. In order to find Satan in that passage, you have to put the literal translation away and go to an interpreted one. (It's funny how literal translationists aren't really that literal.)


    by Verified Atheist on Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:08pm