MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Elissa Slotkin Braces for a Democratic Civil War
By artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 12:16pm |
URL:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/13/elissa-slotkin-braces-for-a-democratic-civil-war-436301
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Alberta tweeted another version promoting this quote from the story
“I remember, long before, literally, Donald Trump was even a twinkle in our eye, the way that people in my life here couldn’t stand political correctness. Now, I happen to believe that we live in a different era. … But people do feel looked down upon.”
@billscher picks out the quote "I will not be voting for Nancy Pelosi" to tweet the story, and includes @RepSlotkin
another of interest
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 12:32pm
I would like to note she is no yahoo from the sticks, definitely knows the ways of the elite, a former member of the "Deep State"
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 12:35pm
the excerpt I'd like to emphasize:
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 12:46pm
Chicken and egg problem
Democrats we told F your feelings
Now we are supposed to coddle Trump
Some Blacks voted for Trump
Other Blacks walk into a room full of whites they don't know, they assume most voted for Trump.
Most Blacks really don't use Ice Cube, etc, as a voting standard.
Biden got 75M votes with a coalition.
When Hillary lost the Democrats went through finger pointing then as well.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 1:56pm
this argument within the Democratic party is all about Democratic losses in the House and the problem of how to achieve some power in the Senate, FURTHER more importantly what you are not seeing is that Biden's win, being a centrist and pro-bipartisan, is proof for those who are arguing that the rest of the party is being damaged by political correctness and the far left and needs to be more like Biden. Including Jim Clyburn, he is arguing exactly that, he "argued" it from day one by helping Biden becoming the anointed. They are arguing shuddup leftists, see Biden won but the House lost seats. Not chicken and egg at all, very clear disagreement on how to win and how not to lose.
Edit to add: especially RIGHT NOW, this disagreement is of great import as it is also about how to win Georgia run off. Probably not with "defund the police" or "fuck white male privilege."
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 2:11pm
Democrats passed Civil Rights legislation
They lost the South
Democrats passed Obamacare
They lost seats.
Democrats want to control COVID
It is very likely they will lose seats.by taking action
By the way, Democrats usually get 40% of the white vote, least are folks ready to move forward.
Any attempt at police reform will be labeled defund the police.
Obama was a Centrist labeled a Socialist
Biden is a Centrist labeled a Socialist.
Biden is a Centrist who will be blocked by McConnell if the two Georgia seats are lost.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 2:40pm
Again you are totally diverting the argument here, I suspect both sides would throw you out of caucus for babbling, nothing going to be achieved by pretending there is not disagreement that they need to negotiate. Go tell it to the Majority Whip of the House or like the mayor of Atlanta and see them roll their eyes
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 2:46pm
You are doing your usual diversion.
Democrats have finger pointing sessions between moderates and Progressives every four years
Georgia is transitioning because a younger group of voters is entering.
Democrats have tried and failed to increase the number of the white vote for President
Universal Health Care and police reform are major issues for significant segments of the Democratic base
Tell that base that the labels Socialism and defund cannot be overcome, you lose some of those voters.
Democrats have to define the terms for themselves
Republicans have had over 12 years to do a health care plan and have nothing
I'm willing to listen to people who actually come with a plan
Regarding Clyburn, his state was Republican run before defund the police cams along.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 3:11pm
You're arguing like the tribalists you condemn.You're making the same error that rmrd is making. You're saying moderates like me make up a plurality of the party so we must do what we/they want to win. But moderates can not win with just the votes of the moderates. Politicians on a national level need to navigate a difficult path between all parts of a coalition and find a way to satisfy as many as possible. If democrats start losing enough of the black vote moderates won't win. If they lose enough of the liberal vote the moderates will lose.
You might think I'm unusual. That I'm alone in choosing not to vote. I think I'm not the only liberal that made the choice. I think I'm a canary in the coal mine. I'm against the looting, tearing down statues, defund the police Sanders etc. I hate Trump. But voting for Biden was a step to far for me. Am I the only person in America that feels this way? Is it a trend? If democrats continue losing life long democrats from the left like me democratic moderates will never win again. How to serve moderates isn't the whole question. How to serve all parts of the coalition to hold it together enough to win is. Frankly I don't know what will bring me back to the voting booth but it won't be Kamala Harris in 2024.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 3:00pm
I'm not arguing, House Dems are! That's the point! Are there tribes in the Dem party? Yes there are! It is what it is. They're trying to solve it. You're angry at reality and blaming me for pointing out what's going on with the Dem party. That I think centrists can win doesn't matter two cents, it's what the powers in the Dem party think.
Again, a reminder that I am a registered Independent since 1980, so I don't give a shit about where the parties go, I just want to be informed about where they are going.
How can you deny what's right in front of your eyes with these articles that power people in the Dem party are trying to get lefties to shut up? Me pointing it out is going to help them or hurt them?
And I think your vote or choice of nonvote is equal to mine and everyone else's. Have I ever harassed you about any candidate preferences you have made public? Nope, because I don't believe in that shit that it would ever make a diff. Is just useless silly debate that wouldn't make a diff.
(Edit to correct typo)
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 3:21pm
p.s. Since it seems to upset you so much about the Dem party always finding it necessary to court the center to win and the GOP not having to, I suggest you read the Ezra Klein piece, his theory about why that is. Repost from another thread:
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 3:37pm
I read it. I was planning on submitting it in the news but as usual I procrastinated and you beat me to it. Do you really think that I haven't read 80% of the articles you post here before you post them?
I'm not upset that the dem party needs to court the center to win. I've constantly pointed that out to rmrd when he claims blacks take the party to victory. What do you think I mean when I've several times posted that 40% of a large number is more raw votes than 85% of a small number. Whatever the plurality of the raw votes are to win dems must get sufficient votes from all parts of the coalition. Simply worrying about the moderates isn't enough to win elections. Even if moderates produce the most votes
by ocean-kat on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 3:55pm
"I'm not arguing,"
You are. While you submit links that cross the political spectrum you're not just an unbiased reporter. You also make arguments that support your point of view.
2. a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.
I've never claimed my vote is significant. That's abundantly clear since Biden and Mark Kelly won in Arizona without my vote. Just as you claim quite often that you, as an independent, are part of a growing number of independents I propose the possibility that I, as a liberal non voter, am part of a growing number of liberal non voters.
I'm not denying what is reported in the news papers nor am I denying that the opinions you post about it don't exist. I'm pointing out how I think the opinions in the articles of the power people in the Dem party and your opinions on the subject are flawed
by ocean-kat on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 3:39pm
The only "people" I am arguing with here are the ones who think denial is a river in Egypt and think nothing has changed since MLK Jr. was alive.
Joe Biden is the new president, the House lost Dem seats, Jim Clyburn is still the House Whip and people like Keisha Lance-Bottoms have major political offices and are rising stars in the Dem party, just as sure as AOC was last year. Y'all Dems gotta figure it out from there. I'm watching.
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 3:47pm
" Y'all Dems gotta figure it out from there. I'm watching."
Oh come on. That's exactly what I said when the dems choose Biden as it's nominee and I said I wasn't going to vote for him. I rethought that decision a few times, especially when I received a mail in ballot I never asked for in the mail. In the end I stuck with my decision. I'm still watching but the more important decision I'm thinking about is when and what type of puppy I should get as a companion for the puppy I'm been training for the last 8 months
by ocean-kat on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 4:02pm
Turns out Trump resounds with young white males as well as older ones, even if they think progressively about other things.
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 1:39pm
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 1:59pm
Whew, just finished Shor's July interview - well worth a read if you haven't already. Same for Oceankat - addresses a lot of that "why can't I get a politician to uphold *my* left-wing values? maybe for rmrd for the "it's racist/it's not exactly racist" ambiguity, and that all important issue, "do violent protests reduce votes for the left?" (tl;dr: yes)
Education divide, education divide, education divide...
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/david-shor-cancel-culture-2020-e...
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 11/14/2020 - 6:55am
there was also major discussion with Shor and lots of political geeks participating on the second tweet of that thread yesterday, like this--
lots more comments there. Including this one, where Jamelle Bouie acts clueless about how it is pointed out in the article that some of his favorite political things might be elite whypipple projects that turn off working class blacks:
lots of interesting subtweets if you keep opening up the replies you see answers like this
by artappraiser on Sat, 11/14/2020 - 12:27pm
Does critical thinking have to be deferred to college?
Even pre-schoolers understand if you build a playground, *everybody* wins. When does scarcity and antagonistic relationships become the perceived norm?
FYI, was out and about with a ton of people today (properly distance, of course) - noticed that 90% were paired up male-female couples. I'd been informed that doesn't happen anymore - I'm confused.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 11/14/2020 - 12:40pm
not any more due to all the new grade school teachers and other Education Dept. people pushing it, it's in curricula for K-12 in most urban areas now. The conservative rural districts fight back of course:
by artappraiser on Sat, 11/14/2020 - 12:49pm
Uh, hello? "Critical Thinking", not "Critical Race Theory". I hope at least they're not considered the same
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 11/14/2020 - 1:24pm
Those are all really good questions that should be explored in the curriculum. Most are not in and of themselves race based. For example the history we choose to teach should address how people challenge power. But it doesn't begin and end with racism or MLK and BLM. The fight for 40 hour work weeks, labor protections, minimum wage, and the union movement is part of the history. It predates FDR and the New Deal. Of course the civil rights movement but also Women's suffrage, NOW and ACT UP. The value in those questions depends on how they are answered. If the answers become nothing but race and racism it's as much a disservice to our history as the faultless greatest nation on earth ultra nationalistic over the top patriotic narrative that came before it.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 11/14/2020 - 3:00pm
myself on this meme, living in a striver working-class-to-small-biz owner immigrant Bronx nabe, what I can't get over as a powerful negative is the bad p.r. from the protests in the summer where woke type mixed crowds of college kids either went after people eating in restaurants or went marching through residential neighborhoods yelling that supposed "gentrifiers" don't belong there and give it back to the poor. While it was a small percentage of protests, these videos got tons of play and buzz on social media, I am sure including on Facebook. It's class warfare brassy and bold. The immigrant and 2nd generation of those immigrants aspire to being exactly those gentriifiers. It's like slapping their "American dream" in the face. I'm not making it up, it's a major meme in TV shows like Shameless. Or The Simpsons. Or heck go all the way to The Jefferson's and "moving on up." Script writers get that from somewhere, it's not fantasy, it's real. That's really the core of the negative association with the word "socialism". Nearly everyone who chooses to come here does so because they want to get into some of that capitalism via small business and real estate. Ain't for nothing that "prosperity gospel" evangelical storefront churches are popular with lots of urban immigrants. (And of course, a left wing Afro-American "socialist" argument to that has long been that their ancestors didn't choose to come here. Is at the core of some disagreement between immigrants from Africa and Afro-Americans.)
by artappraiser on Sat, 11/14/2020 - 12:44pm
Vox/Yglesias did a whole article on the Shor argument in July, I didn't know about it, but obviously German Lopez keeps it in mind as a main topic of interest:
by artappraiser on Sat, 11/14/2020 - 1:36pm
Side issue: so obviously this is something that interests Yglesias as he is already writing on it during the summer while George Floyd protests are hot and heavy. And there's a lot of woke youth working in the office, and they don't like it that criticism of their rhetoric is being written about by one of the bosses. After other problems like trans worker complaining they are hurt that he signed The Harper's Letter, and him being told that sharing snarky thoughts and opinions on Twitter is inappropriate, because they offend some, and that he should be only doing promotional tweets for Vox. It follows in November that we see Yglesias decide to leave so he can talk about what he wants to talk about unrestricted.
Similar is going on in big media all over the country. As they do want to attract the younger demographic, so they hire young woke elites.
Right here is evidence of what I say, copied from the comments I put on the Friedersdorf-on-Yglesias-leaving news thread
Senior Political Analyst & fill-in Anchor for CNN @NewDay. EIC of The Daily Beast 2013-2018. Author, Wingnuts & Washington's Farewell.:
by artappraiser on Sat, 11/14/2020 - 1:47pm
yo, on topic, mho:
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 2:14pm
Democrats are already at odds over how to win in 2022
The competing theories over how to protect Democrats’ slim House majority, explained.
By Ella Nilsen[email protected] Nov 13, 2020, 9:30am EST
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 3:41pm
Jamelle Bouie would like to see some heads severed?
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 4:56pm
Chris Hayes seems awfully offended too:
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/13/2020 - 5:36pm
NYTimes' Nate, Nate Cohn, chimes in on topic with a thread of tweets, sort of like a first draft of what he sees big picture after years of experience of Trump-related election analysis:
Basically: Dems are perhaps blaming themselves too much for the past BUT then again now it's a whole new world, babee. ...Democrats *do* need to recognize just how much Trump pitch has really undermined the way they usually win elections.....Also of note, he does seem to be saying might as well forget the economy thing stupids, as you don't/won't get credit for it anyway?
Edit to add: this one of the end tweets summarizes many of his points well:
by artappraiser on Sat, 11/14/2020 - 5:36pm
So Nate basically reminds everyone that we are well into the 21st century and things have changed some, believe it or not. Like having had a radical nut case anti-establishment anti-elite populist president for 4 yrs. that many still support?
So maybe just maybe political parties (and pollsters) shouldn't be totally focused on how to appeal to the same old same old demographics as in 1985? Just maybe?
Here's one I see mentioned by smart political analyst people
Reminds me of this post of news articles I did nearing two years ago now
THE LIBERALTARIAN DEMOGRAPHIC, IGNORED BY POLITICAL ACTIVISTS, ANALYSTS AND POLLSTERS AT THEIR PERIL
Also comes to mind that dropping the red vs. blue map thing invented by TV pollsters in the 1980's (to go with Nancy Reagan red!) might be helpful as well to see reality better aside from figuring an Electoral College race once every 4 yrs.
by artappraiser on Sat, 11/14/2020 - 6:52pm
Very popular tweet by a reporter for The Hill on topic with 2,500 retweets, 16,700 likes and a gazillion comments on it:
by artappraiser on Sat, 11/14/2020 - 10:37pm
To keep in mind:
by artappraiser on Sat, 11/14/2020 - 11:38pm