Suzy Khimm: How do you see the debate over taxes playing out when it comes to actual negotiations over the fiscal cliff? 

Grover Norquist: We have two futures: Romney wins and has a Republican House and Senate. They hold a press conference and say, “We’re going to extend all expiring tax provisions out one or two years, during which time we will pass something [that] looks like the Ryan plan.” And then they do the Ryan plan in terms of block-granting, means-testing for entitlement programs; taking one success of Clinton years, welfare reform, and extending it to Medicaid and food stamps. That’s one future: No tax increases. No fiscal cliff, because we’ve pushed the fiscal cliff out and do tax reform. At worst, it’s revenue-neutral. And we do entitlement reform. 

If either the president is reelected, or [Romney wins and] Democrats win the Senate: In theory, either Democrats in the Senate could say no to continuing the lapsing tax provision, the AMT patch, or Obama could veto them. But how will the president react, how will the Democrats in Senate react? We don’t have to have vivid imaginations. We had exactly the same chess board two years ago — they extended all the tax increases for two years. Back then economy was stronger than it is today, and Democrats thought someday they’ll get the House back. [This time], Republicans will be stronger in the Senate.