MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
The most famous psychological studies are often wrong, fraudulent, or outdated. Textbooks need to catch up.
By Brian Resnick @ Vox.com, June 13
[....] The Stanford Prison Experiment has been included in many, many introductory psychology textbooks and is often cited uncritically. It’s the subject of movies, documentaries, books, television shows, and congressional testimony.
But its findings were wrong. Very wrong. And not just due to its questionable ethics or lack of concrete data — but because of deceit.
A new exposé published by Medium based on previously unpublished recordings of Philip Zimbardo, the Stanford psychologist who ran the study, and interviews with his participants, offers convincing evidence that the guards in the experiment were coached to be cruel. It also shows that the experiment’s most memorable moment — of a prisoner descending into a screaming fit, proclaiming, “I’m burning up inside!” — was the result of the prisoner acting. “I took it as a kind of an improv exercise,” one of the guards told reporter Ben Blum. “I believed that I was doing what the researchers wanted me to do." [....]
Comments
I was so impressed by this piece that I went on to check out what else Resnick is doing and turns out he is doing a lot of work on the replication "crisis" in science in general, all very interesting. There's a bunch of links at the bottom of this piece to surf with
I especially recommend the one on the "Marshmellow test" because it gets into education theory and how a lot of our prescriptions in that area. not just by education professionals and social workers and politicians, but also well-meaning parents, have been based on faulty science.
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/16/2018 - 2:42am
As I grew up, I learned to hate marshmallows more and more. I think that makes me a psychopath. Certainly in these tests I hurt the marshmallows when the examiner wasn't looking. I suspect marshmallows would be a good test subject for the Stanford experiments.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 06/16/2018 - 8:49am
So you think that makes you a psychopath?
We could probably construct a fair list of other identifying features and causal factors:
- Owns all 13 seasons of Ren & Stimpy
- Sets marshmallows on fire, giggles maniacally
- Alabama
- Enjoys John Cage's less tuneful albums
- Slurps tea
- Enjoys watching mixed doubles
- Was sent into space by Soviets, repulsed by their Kibble, moved to US
- Owns all 3 seasons of Rick & Morty [seriously dude, Rick... is you]
- Shouts at kid playing Jesus in the Christmas pageant, "RUN!!! WE'VE ALL SEEN THE ENDING!!!"
by Q (not verified) on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 9:06am
But is it *bad* to be a psychopath, and if so *why*. I know I make an easy target, but think of the more complex cases - misunderstood Hannibal Lecter types. Is he the Morty to my Rick? And careful, farmboy - we have a rural list for people who didn't grow up with TV. It's tough, but fair (I think).
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 12:29pm
* jumps to sunnier timeline *
* gnaws on peracles' slow-roasted bones at summer bbq *
by Q (not verified) on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 12:36pm
Bad to the bone? You're really going to go there? I'll go all Quest for Fire on your ass.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 4:15pm
"The guards were coached".
In a hierarchical system of "powerless and powerful", authority comes from the top, the low level enforcers are always trained, coached and must follow established standards (good or bad).
Not being relevant to what happens in the real world, removing context, was, apparently the study objective, at which they failed.
by NCD on Sat, 06/16/2018 - 11:02am
Interesting. A quick search did not turn up a response from Zimbardo, now 85, yet, to this article. I would have appreciated a sentence in the article indicating that attempts to obtain a reaction from Zimbardo were unsuccessful, or something to that effect.
by AmericanDreamer on Sat, 06/16/2018 - 12:22pm
There has long been a disparagement of the so called soft sciences, like psychology and sociology, by those involved in the hard sciences, astronomy, physics, engineering. For example Neil deGrasse Tyson is famous for for his jibes against the soft sciences during his talks. I usually discount most of the studies of humans by psychologists and sociologists. There's just too many things that influence people to get adequate control to one factor and you can't do to people what would be necessary to get those controls. Scientists can't do to animals what they do to inanimate objects or bacteria and viruses and can't do to humans what they do to lesser animals. In the end you're almost never sure what it is you've actually been testing for in the study.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 06/16/2018 - 4:55pm
Do you have any faith in, or find any usefulness in, psychology/sociology?
by barefooted on Sat, 06/16/2018 - 5:35pm
I don't know much about sociology but I find a lot of value in Psychology and Anthropology though both have gone down very negative very ugly paths often. Without clear objective data like that found in the hard sciences it's easy to let biases effect the conclusions. It's the theorists in Psychology that create maps for understanding human behavior that I find interesting. Maslow's hierarchy of needs, Jung's theories on archetypes and the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator based on Jung's work, or Ken Wilber's Spectrum of Consciousness placing the varieties of psychological theories and spiritual practices on a grid and explaining and comparing them based on their placement are some of my favorites. I really like Sam Harris' theories about a science of morality as well as other things he's written.
What I have problems with is studies that so often seem poorly designed, too simple to account for the complexity of human behavior, or conclusions that seem to go beyond what can be said about them. For example I read James Damore's memo on gender as well as many of the arguments that responded to it. Study after study was cited by both sides. I just don't think we're there yet. There is simply such a overwhelming cultural effect on gender that I don't see how one can factor it out. Surely there must be some differences that are gender based but for now best to assume any differences found are due to cultural effects as that seems to most often be the case.
The same can be said about Charles Murray's writings about race and IQ. The cultural effects of racism are too large to separate out of any study to draw any firm conclusions about genetic characteristics that might be associated with race.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 12:41am
Thank you for the thoughtful response, ocean-kat. Much about which to cogitate ... mull ... deliberate and perhaps stew. My immediate impression is that while I agree with most of what you write, I have my doubts - still - about how much culture plays into what you finely note as the "complexity of human behavior". Risking repetition, my fall-back is usually that we know less about the human brain and how it creates/molds us (for better or worse, in sickness and in health) than we do about our universe. Which reminds me - I'm pretty convinced there are aliens. ;-)
by barefooted on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 6:13pm
My only real takeaway is that I'm genetically and culturally superior - whoever can put it in a proper scientific framework to explain *why* I'm so awesome, well, I'm all in. The rest of these bogus studies? well, I have my suspicions.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 6:38pm
Well, now I'm totally convinced.
by barefooted on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 6:53pm
Agree. The study that had "too much influence":
....Someone got "power over others" ....who gave them that power?...with what expectations, instructions? And how were the powerless denied the same?
Ruth Mitchell (sister Billy Mitchell) , after her arrest by the Gestapo as a spy, imprisonment and (because of her name) non-execution but POW exchange, tersely summarized her personal experiences with a leadership cult and 'power/powerlessness' ... "In only 8 years, Hitler turned Germany's youth into cold blooded killers." (The Serbs Choose War, 1943)
by NCD on Sat, 06/16/2018 - 5:54pm
Now you are getting into the whole "cannon fodder" thing. We don't need no frigging social "sciences" or studies to tell us what millennia have shown: that most young males are highly susceptible to being bribed with a power/control situation of some kind, and this has been manipulated and put to use by their higher ups fuhever in so many varied and sundry ways. Just as often leading to their own maiming and/or deaths as well as the deaths and torture and maiming of others.
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/16/2018 - 7:07pm
Young males? There have been young, and not so young, women who have practiced much the same yet the majority are overwhelmingly male. Why is that? How can it be explained?
by barefooted on Sat, 06/16/2018 - 7:13pm
Myself, I am convinced that it's all hormones, including some that medicine/science doesn't even understand yet (heck, they don't understand most human hormones yet, they don't even get the basics on like, the whyfore of diabetes.) You have examples of women because all human beings are not identical on gender-related hormones, it's not black and white, male/female, they are sliding scale from male to female, we should get that by now. (And including how some hormones more affect the brain and others more the body, so that you have examples like people who are convinced they are male when they have female body parts, and vicey versa.)
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/16/2018 - 7:29pm
Myself, I'm not convinced that it's all hormones. Largely because I'm not convinced that it's all determined by physical/metaphysical attributes that are disassociated from the brain. That's one of the reasons that I believe so strongly in the strengths of phycology, and the study of sociology in general. We are so ignorant about how the brain functions that we have no definitive idea of whether, or if, there is a measure of how the brains of the male and female genders may differ. In addition, there are a multitude of studies, concepts and proposals that suggest that where and how you live (from birth to present) is just as significant as your sex - the age old question of nature v nurture - which accentuates the fact that we know absolutely nothing about it as fact.
I'll add this because I have to: people who are convinced they are male when they have female body parts are male, and "vicey versa". It's not a hormonal issue.
by barefooted on Sat, 06/16/2018 - 8:24pm
Agree with barefoot.
To cite what Ruth Mitchell personally experienced after being arrested and imprisoned in Serbia by the Gestapo, there were no German "cannon fodder" running prisons in 1942.
Those running the place were quite safe from harm, and were torturing and executing girls and boys age 14-15, priests and the old or sick.
They were engaging in massacres in Balkan villages of every last person. (Eastern Approaches, Fitzroy MacLean)
Ian Kershaw notes in his history of Europe, To Hell and Back, of 15 million Germans who served in the military, and who it is well documented, were all involved in or well aware of the crimes against humanity being committed across occupied territories, only about 100 Germans in those forces were known to have taken risks to save innocent lives.
It's not hormones. Fascism and racist indoctrination in a society with a leadership cult, leading to willing participation in state sanctioned crimes.
by NCD on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 12:45am
My mistake for not looking closely enough to your reference, I saw the italics and was thinking of the actual Hitler Youth organization and got carried away thinking on that meme.
by artappraiser on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 12:49pm
p.s. and related to that whole thing, this article really intrigued me along the lines of "new iteration", even though, yes it certainly is non-scientific supposition. I intended to post it "In the News" here but never got around to it, just recommend for thought provocation, my underlining:
For ‘Columbiners,’ School Shootings Have a Deadly Allure
By Manny Fernandez, Julie Turkewitz and Jess Bidgood @ NYTimes.com, May 30, 2018
by artappraiser on Sat, 06/16/2018 - 7:31pm
This spot of bother makes me wonder if the experiment could have ever canceled out the influence of being an artificial condition. In the Stanislavsky teaching on acting, there is an insistence that one isn't making the set real but allowing a quality to reveal itself. The suspension of belief is entangled with recognition of something that is either there or not. It is a tricky bank shot where the problems of verification in theater get mixed up with isolating causes for behavior.
The "Boulder Model" developed by psychologists more than six decades ago was set up to establish forms of research that could bolster and extend the efforts made to help people by various methods. The original objections to it were that framing a problem to be the specific result of something was just like the language of the person seeking help. The standing wave of complete reflection.
by moat on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 6:47pm
In the Stanislavsky teaching on acting, there is an insistence that one isn't making the set real but allowing a quality to reveal itself.
Having nothing to do with the subject at hand, what you wrote reminded me immediately of the new Sally Hemings exhibit at Monticello and how it was put together.
Maybe what they've done, including using a shadow projection to depict a woman never photographed or imaged, has something to do with this after all. "The standing wave of complete reflection" recognized and allowed to dissipate into a pool of individual pieces.
by barefooted on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 7:15pm
Maybe it has something to do with the subject at hand. There are scenes we know have happened over and over again. The repetition is closer to our understanding than almost anything else.
I did not build my mind. I just have one.
by moat on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 8:26pm
My mind was not built
Within traditional terms
Such as other things.
It, I, is transitional.
It, as am I, is transformed.
by barefooted on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 8:40pm
Well, there you have it,
Kierkegaard in a nutshell.
You are the problem.
by moat on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 9:23pm
Who are you, he asked?
The question seemed to linger ...
I am The Problem.
by barefooted on Sun, 06/17/2018 - 9:41pm
I just realized that I am veering toward plagiarism..
Kafka said: "You are the problem. No scholar to be fo found far and wide."
by moat on Mon, 06/18/2018 - 12:58am
He dreamed of bugs - who's going to believe him?
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 06/18/2018 - 1:48am
That was a dream?
I thought he was reporting what he observed in the field.
by moat on Mon, 06/18/2018 - 7:14pm
Yeah, I thought this was all settled when it was replicated by Burroughs?
by artappraiser on Mon, 06/18/2018 - 8:06pm