MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Never since the Cold War ended with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 have so many U.S. nuclear bombers been engaged in “show-of-force” operations of this sort, writes Michael Klare.
Comments
I have always been confused by the show of force demonstrations carried out by anybody. If one can do something, and the people on the other end of the stick know that, then the show is for some audience not involved with the struggle.
by moat on Thu, 10/15/2020 - 8:43pm
That is an interesting question. I cannot come up with an answer that correlates with good sense in today's world. I am accepting at face value the author’s claims which describe the aircraft involved and their capabilities, and that they went where the author said they went. We can know of course that someone in the military hierarchy of the U.S, which goes all the way to the Presidency, made the decision to carry out those provocative missions, so that is where to look for motive. I too rarely feel that I actually understand what the real underlying motive is or what benefit is hoped for.
One reason given in this instance is that it is for training including working with allied countries in effectively coordinating mutual effective support for an attack on the Russian mainland. Another purpose that I know was in play in the past and I assume is still operative is to gather intelligence about Russian response capabilities. When the potentially country killing air group is sent close to the Russian border all available monitoring systems are tuned in to see how quickly the Russians respond, where they respond from, and what the channels of communication are within the Russian response units involved to the extent that we can determine.
I suspect that a strong influencing factor is human nature which pushes people to form pecking orders of dominance in social and economic systems which too often reward bullies and usually pushes a bully to the top. Then they are called leaders. A bully who cannot win on merit alone just cannot keep from waving his stick at whoever he can get away with attempting to intimidate and dominate. The demonstration of power is like the school bully catching someone in front of a crowd and sticking his finger in their chest and saying loudly; What are you going to do about it punk? The bully always has some fans urging him on but there are usually more who wait for the grim satisfaction of seeing a David come along and kick the juice out of him.
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 10/16/2020 - 1:30pm
If we accept this at face value it couldn't have been a solely US operation. It had to be done with the full cooperation and support of many European nations. Unless you believe that Europe is so cowed by Trump that they were coerced into allowing these planes full of nuclear weapons to fly over their nations and to keep silent about it. With out a single statement from any prominent European official. I've seen no evidence that Europe is sufficiently cowed by the US to be forced to simply accept and shut up about it.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 10/16/2020 - 2:25pm
In my apparently inept analogy Russia is the intended object of the bullying, not our allies. Both the article and my comment acknowledged the participation of other countries and did not suggest as an important point that those other countries were coerced into cooperating. Here is a repeat of one of the links within the article. That is not to say that there are no voices in Europe that wish for different policies because they see the danger and counter-productive nature of our current actions.
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 10/16/2020 - 3:06pm
What do you think of Putin backing Lukashenko's stolen election…?
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 10/16/2020 - 3:18pm
Yes, Russia was the target for the "bullying." But the article mostly downplayed the cooperation of the US's European allies which had to be extensive. Either this isn't an escalation, it's SOP, or there is intelligence about Russia sufficient for NATO, i.e. most European nations, to fully endorse the operations.
If we're going to discuss this it has to be in the context of full cooperation and support of European allies and not in the context of an American mission.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 10/16/2020 - 3:45pm
Either this isn't an escalation, it's SOP, or there is intelligence about Russia sufficient for NATO, i.e. most European nations, to fully endorse the operations.
History shows that it is not SOP but it isn't unusual either. Gunboat diplomacy is as old as gunboats. I am not arguing, and neither did the article, that allied nations do not support the operations. That is not the point. The point is to inform as to what is happening and what dangers it creates.
If we're going to discuss this it has to be in the context of full cooperation and support of European allies and not in the context of an American mission.
We do not have to discuss it but if we do I certainly don't accept that I must agree to do so only in context of an over reaching assertion you make which is off-point to the subject of the article.
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 10/16/2020 - 5:07pm
I certainly don't accept that I must agree to do so only in context of an over reaching assertion you make which is off-point to the subject of the article.
What ever the point you or I want to make it must be discussed within the context of the facts. And the facts are that this isn't an American mission but done with the full cooperation and support of European allies. The problem I have with the article and why I dismiss it is because it quite deliberately down plays that fact. We can't have a rational discussion of our subjective analysis unless we can agree on the basic facts. And since we never do we never have a rational discussion.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 10/16/2020 - 5:29pm
Oh these guys were all fretting over anything Nuland said, and not giving Putin Donna's or Crimea would lead to World War, etc. It's always too much for the West to project power, no prob for Pootie to use a bit of Novichok or back Syria's use of chemical weapons, plus undermining elections? "Both sides do it!!!" Bwa-ha-ha.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 10/16/2020 - 5:56pm
There's the rub. If both sides do it in relatively equal amounts isn't that the issue? A good article on this subject would tell the story that both sides do it. Not that America and her allies do it. And what is the proposed solution, unilateral disarmament?
by ocean-kat on Fri, 10/16/2020 - 6:19pm
That is funny. You are funny. Seriously. Have you been reading comments here for long? You say that a “good” article would point out that both sides do it. I think that if tomorrow a group of nuclear capable Russian or Chinese bombers with fighter escort began flying towards the U.S. border and got close enough on multiple occasions to wipe out forty or fifty U.S. cities it would make a big stink and we would hear about the unacceptable aggressive actions in bold print and loud angry voices and there would be demands made to do something about it. So sure, I agree wholeheartedly that putting information in its proper context is always cool, especially when one side is being criticized hypocritically for what both sides do, so the next time Russia is being demonized as uniquely evil for something they did, but which both sides in fact do, and someone points out that it should be noted that both sides do it and they do so in order to provide important context for judging the situation, observe how quickly that person is denigrated for both-side-ism and called a Putin apologist and a hater of America with the spice of a few salacious x-rated adjectives applied to their person. Ask me how I know to expect that reaction.
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 10/16/2020 - 11:57pm
Wasn't Putin stealing the Azov sea provocative? Maybe cause a nuclear war? Russians radiation poisoning Brits & Russians in Salisbury? I just don't see a serious attempt to address Russian fuckery, whether it's both sides do it or not.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 10/17/2020 - 12:03am
What form of reaction to address that Russian fuckery do you suggest? Let those bombers continue on the mission they are practicing for?
by A Guy Called LULU on Sat, 10/17/2020 - 12:14am
We've been deterring Russian and Chinese expansion since the 50's with these shows and actual deployments, and for some reason it hasn't caused a nuclear war. At one point a bunch more countries in Europe spoke Russian because the Russians kept pushing west. Those days largely ended in 1989. Europe is largely at peace. Russia ripping off pieces of Ukraine or threatening Europe with cutting off gas or trying to overthrow the government of Montenegro or poisoning Brits on British soil don't encourage peace, does it? So fucking bitch about their fucked up actions for once so we know you're not only concerned that we might try to defend ourselves and others. Russia just claimed a major breakthrough in its nuclear capabilities - did you post that, complain what a threat to peace it is? We tried building North Korea energy reactors for peace and they're still playing nuke missile poker - should we just let them fire missiles over Japan? I mean, deploying a show of nuclear forces without intent to use them immediately is kind of the whole point of deterrence, not aggression, no?
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 10/17/2020 - 12:29am
Humans aren't very smart. Are you seriously going to tell me that the common man is going to react to situations and news with base instincts and tribalism instead of knowledge and rational thought as if that's a revelation? I learned that people are stupid way back in elementary school when everyone was trying to cheat off my test paper. I made a conscious decision when I was about 7 to reject the system and let them. I decided I wasn't going to compete. I wasn't going to care about my grades compared to theirs. I held to that decision until I graduated high school.
You think I don't know how the common man will react to people who disagree with them? My best friend's husband turned into a screaming mad man when I told him I was against invading Iraq and attempted to explain why. He actually did tell me I hated America. He kicked me out of the house and told me never to return.
I completely agree with every thing you posted. Most people are morons and never read or study to attempt to improve themselves. They are both unintelligent and ignorant. But I thought we were better than the average here. I thought the people here started with a little more intelligence and ability for rational thought. I thought we honed that by reading to increase our base of knowledge.
I'm not sure what your point is in telling me how the common man will react. I'm not much interested in how the common man will react beyond the interest an anthropologist might have in the tribe he's studying.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 10/17/2020 - 12:45am
Lulu, the Norks dog & pony
Any response, or we just assume it's all fluff and doesn't matter?
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/17/asia/north-korea-kim-jong-un-parade-i...
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 10/18/2020 - 3:09am