MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
The inconvenience of elections sure does complicate democracy.
Comments
The following synopsis of Venezuela's situation comes from a link within the article.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 11/29/2020 - 9:07pm
"By mid-2019, over four million Venezuelans, around 13 percent of the country's population, had emigrated since the revolution began in 1999.[24][7][25] The United Nations predicted that by the end of 2019, there would have been over 5 million recorded emigrants during the Venezuelan crisis, over 15% of the population"
2 Causes
by ocean-kat on Sun, 11/29/2020 - 9:24pm
Yeah, times are tough there for sure and getting worse daily by most accounts. Your links number 1, 3, and 4, are all exasperated by number 2. Number 2 would be struggling anyway because of the price of oil but sanctions imposed by the U.S. are crushing it. And deliberately crushing that economy means killing people and imposing misery on much of the remaining population. In that sort of situation crime will spike anywhere, access to healthcare will get worse, and crackdowns will become frequent.
That said, your response has little direct connection to what the article charges.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 11/29/2020 - 9:43pm
"holding sham votes watched over by impressed international observers."
Independent international observers were not on hand, and a crackdown on critics left several of them unable to participate.
"with a larger share of the electorate than Trump in 2016 or Obama in 2012,"
Opposition leaders called for a boycott of the election, and that, combined with the disillusionment of many longtime government supporters, meant the turnout was exceptionally low.
"presided over by a dictator who was elected twice"
Venezuela’s Supreme Court is demonstrating its lack of independence by appointing government supporters to leadership positions in three opposition parties and to the National Electoral Council, Human Rights Watch said today. In doing so, it is undermining Venezuelans’ rights to free and fair elections and freedom of association.
“When a judiciary that answers to Maduro decapitates opposition political parties that represent dissenting voices, it undermines the rights of all Venezuelans, dispensing with even the pretense of a democratic process,” said José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch. “Venezuelans’ right to vote for their preferred candidates requires a free and fair election in which all parties and candidates have a reasonable opportunity to present their ideas to the electorate.”
On July 1, the Venezuelan authorities announced that they will hold legislative elections on December 6 to fill 277 seats in the National Assembly, increasing the total number of seats by 110, from the current 167 seats. The move appears to be a first step toward packing the legislative branch.
Mr. Maduro’s stifling of dissent and targeting of the opposition has been widely reported. Since 2014, Human Rights Watch says, it has documented hundreds of cases of mistreatment of government opponents, including at least 31 cases of torture.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 11/29/2020 - 9:53pm
You studiously avoid dealing with what the U.S. is doing. I think the old adage of 'first do no harm' should apply. If you have a defense of or a justification for what the U.S. doing in Venezuela I would be interested in hearing it.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 11/29/2020 - 10:23pm
First we have to get the story and analysis from as unbiased sources as possible or at least from several sources with differing spin. Your links read as propaganda to me, worse than one sided. That's an unproductive way to begin. At this point the thing to do is offer a competing narrative.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 11/29/2020 - 10:50pm
Ironic megadittoes. (Struck me as written as if he thinks we still have as President Bush.)
by artappraiser on Sun, 11/29/2020 - 10:59pm
First we have to get the story and analysis from as unbiased sources as possible or at least from several sources with differing spin.
Agreed and that is not always easy. Wikileaks provides an example. We all use it as you have done as your source in this case. What is becoming more apparent all the time is that because of wikileaks open editing any politically charged issue can be distorted by a dedicated few. Here and here are two parts of a report that is worth considering before you bet the ranch that you have a balanced view based on what you read there.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 11/29/2020 - 11:14pm
I used Wikipedia as the source for info just on the refugee crisis. It's pretty basic and well know so I didn't search for the numbers in more authoritative link. In my other post I linked the NYT and Human Rights Watch. I wouldn't use wikipedia for that more controversial analysis.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 11/29/2020 - 11:43pm
So the U.S. is doubling down on policies that are indisputably known to be killing people in Venezuela and you respond every time I bring it up but you just don't have enough information yet to make your own judgment as to whether the policies of our government are smart or justified or legal or moral or ... ...? We do not have to agree on which sources are best or most legitimate for you to come to your own opinion.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 11/29/2020 - 11:44pm
While I think Chavez was democratically elected and it seems possible Maduro was in 2013 I think subsequent elections were fraudulent. While it was premature I support the US claiming the following elections fraudulent.
“In 2012, I applauded Venezuela’s use of electronic voting machines as exemplary in the world,” said former U.S. President Jimmy Carter. “That characterization since has been misused by Nicolas Maduro to suggest a broad validation of Venezuela’s election system as a whole and of subsequent elections that The Carter Center did not observe. In fact, The Carter Center and others routinely have expressed concern about government interference in recent electoral processes.
I"m conflicted about the use of sanctions when a leader claims power and rules as a dictator. Is there any action democracies like the US, EU and GB can take beyond talk? It's either empty words or sanctions.
"you respond every time I bring it up but you just don't have enough information"
You're either lying or you have reading comprehension problems. My responses varied with the links you submitted.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 12:24am
You quote part of a sentence that is a question and present it as a statement and then accuse me of either lying or being stupid. I did not make an accusation about your beliefs, I asked a simple question, and you are weaseling out of answering by throwing out insults. Are you afraid to say that you support the murderous policies that have evolved over several administrations but that you do think they are justified? Anyone with half the comprehension you claim you have can recognize, even if only because of the question mark, that I asked you a simple question which is totally relevant to our exchange and in that context totally fair to ask. I ask it again: Do you think that U.S. policy on this subject is smart, legal, ethical, moral, humane, etc, etc, ...? Any of the above? Don't wimp out, take a stand and own up to your own beliefs.
by A Guy Called LULU on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 1:12am
throwing out insults.
You fucking insulted me you little shit. Like you always fucking do. So I came right back at you. I tried to have a rational dialog with you one more time only for you to prove once again you're not fucking capable of it.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 1:25am
Try just a little more for rational dialog. Point out the insult that you came right back at while refusing to answer questions that your part of the dialog begged..
by A Guy Called LULU on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 1:38am
I discussed the article you submitted about the Venezuelan election. I even discussed sanctions that I guessed you wanted to discuss even though it wasn't discussed in the article. Frankly I don't think you're capable of rational dialog so I don't want to attempt it anymore. If I have something to say about an article you submit I'll address the article. But I'm done with you.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 1:59am
Who is "the U.S."??? We are in a major transition here. I'd venture nothing much is being done right now. I would like to remind that general Trump messaging was that the CIA and the State Dept. and the Pentagon were enemies of the state, which was him, and he was always trying to tamp down whatever they wanted to do. We are going to move from "crazytown" chaos to an actual foreign policy again, but it's going to take some time.
I find it absurd to talk about it as if there is some kind of continuum or even that our country is taken that seriously in world affairs the last couple of years. Anything we were doing was surely nonsensical and will be different under Biden but it won't happen right away as domestic policy is super priority and the relevant executive departments have been devastated by Trumpie loyalists who didn't know how to do anything even if they wanted to and these have to be rebuilt with civil servants to replace those idiot loyalists and career people under them who resigned in disgust.
You seem unaware of what an outcast our country has become as far as international affairs and that was before our reaction to covid made it ten times worse.
by artappraiser on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 12:20am
"You seem unaware of what an outcast our country has become as far as international affairs"
And yet for all the disagreements the EU has with Trump they have continued to condemn Maduro's election as fraudulent and added or continued sanctions during Trump's presidency. The EU recently voted to continue sanctions for another year to Nov 21. The article claims they're just following Trump's lead which is ridiculous given what a pariah he was in Europe.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 12:34am
yeah no way are they following Trump's lead, no way! Not even Netanyahu. They play him, not the other way around.
by artappraiser on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 1:01am
Who is "the U.S."??? We are in a major transition here. I'd venture nothing much is being done right now.
Who is the U.S. and what is it doing now? Something that is being done is people who are no danger to us and who would like to be our friends are being starved. Another thing is that those people are being deprived of medicine. That is a short part of a long list of murderous actions that require good justification, or else accommodations to a perverted psychopathic national policy as I see it. That is I guess, unless you can justify it?
by A Guy Called LULU on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 1:30am
You submit an article ostensibly for discussion and then don't want to discuss it. You want to discuss all sorts of complaints not mentioned in the article and expect us to guess what those complaints are and address them. Please quote the part of the article that discusses people being starved. Please quote the part of the article that discusses people are being deprived of medicine. The article you submitted is trash. I pointed out with links several of the ways it's trash. So I get why you don't want to discuss it. What I don't get is why you submitted it in the first place.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 2:10am
what you had is a gang that can't shoot straight:
and without him and with the commander-in-chief consumed with proving his own election was stolen and even suggesting Venezuela is involved somehow, their aim is no doubt worse
here's some of the latest news:
Methinks Roger Harris needs to realize the hegemon has been changed, there's little there there, all hat no cattle
by artappraiser on Sun, 11/29/2020 - 10:18pm
What would a Joe Biden presidency mean for Venezuela?
Venezuela is struggling with 2,400 percent inflation and US sanctions under Trump. Would Biden be different?
by Lucia Newman @ aljazeera.com, Oct. 30
Maduro hopes to resume ‘decent’ dialogue with US after Biden win
The United States has led international pressure to force Venezuela’s socialist leader from power, backing rival Guaido and imposing sanctions.
@ aljazeera.com, Nov. 9
Why Biden’s Approach To Venezuela Is So Important For Oil Markets
By Matthew Smith @ oilprice.com, Nov 18, 2020, 4:00 PM CST
Venezuela opposition leaders loved Trump, but are optimistic about Joe Biden | Opinion
by Andres Oppenheimer @ MiamiHerald.com, Nov. 20
also to keep in mind:
The Venezuelan-American Vote, From a First-Timer in Florida
Our vote could play a key role in November. We need to see beyond the bluster, and look at the way Trump has treated our community in the U.S.
guest op-ed by Mariana Atencio, Oct. 29 Ms. Atencio is a journalist.
by artappraiser on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 12:04am