The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age
    Ramona's picture

    Christian Guy talks up rape and murder of Atheist Wives and Daughters at Prayer Breakfast. More Coffee, Anyone?

    Phil Robertson, the Duck Dynasty actor and self- professed loyal follower of Jesus Christ, Son of God--the same guy who's been in trouble before for saying bad stuff he heard straight from God's mouth--had this to say at a prayer breakfast the other day:

    "I’ll make a bet with you. Two guys break into an atheist’s home. He has a little atheist wife and two little atheist daughters. Two guys break into his home and tie him up in a chair and gag him. And then they take his two daughters in front of him and rape both of them and then shoot them and they take his wife and then decapitate her head off in front of him. And then they can look at him and say, ‘Isn’t it great that I don’t have to worry about being judged? Isn’t it great that there’s nothing wrong with this? There’s no right or wrong, now is it dude?’ "

    The audience cheered, applauded and laughed.  YaHOO!  Those good ol' boys was havin' them some fun.  Nothin' wrong with a good old fashioned poke at them godless ones. . .  Let 'em know what worthless POS they are.  Just doin' God's work. . .

    You're thinking since I'm as close to a non-theist as it gets without making a formal announcement, and a woman besides, I should be so offended I can't stop bawling my eyes out over this. 

    You're thinking this is going to be a rant against Phil Robertson and all those fundamentalist Old Testament phonies who get their pants in a big old bulge by fantasizing about wicked sexual stuff being done to helpless women.

    You're thinking I'm thinking that maybe a prayer breakfast wasn't exactly the place to be saying things like that out loud.

    Well, on that last one, maybe I am, but it wasn't my prayer breakfast.   (We don't have prayer breakfasts.  remember?  I don't really know what goes on in those places, except for that silly one the president has to go to every year. The one Ol' Phil probably shouldn't get invited to, if everybody knows what's good for them.)

    Naw. I'm letting it go.  I think it's pretty hilarious. That Phil!  You and I both know this isn't the real Phil.  The real Phil is a savvy businessman turned dubious actor who makes scads of money by being Phil the bearded, camo-christian bible-thumper.  In addition to marketing Duck Dynasty camo baseball caps, hoodies, tee-shirts, beach towels, key chains, mugs, mouse pads, Monopoly games, and baby Onesies, he publishes his own bible.  (The original King James version apparently leaves a lot to be desired.  Too much New Testament stuff.  And all the gory, sexy parts aren't underlined.)

    I don't want Phil banned or boycotted or even bobbed.  Down there.  I want him to say more.  Get it all out.  I'm on a mission to figure out if God actually tells Phil these things or if Phil is maybe a bit dyslexic and he's sort of fouling those words up.  I've heard so many strange things this God has supposedly said to people I'm now hopelessly, unhealthily obsessed by the whole Telephone Gameness of it all.

    I'm on the outside looking in--an impartial observer--and from my side it's not looking good for God.  (What? I'll go along.)  Lord knows He tries, but if he's so all-powerful, so omniscient, so perfect, how is it that he can't get his followers to repeat after him and get His message out in clear, coherent (that is to say, non-nuts) sentences?

    Whatever happened to the Beatitudes?  The Psalms?  The Lord's Prayer, for God's sake?  They're all in the Old Testament--the book the Fundies love to haul out while they're swooning through their sacred hatefests.

    How is it that God allowed His primer, the Bible, to get so fuzzy whole chapters of it are up for grabs in the interpretation department?  Murder! Mayhem! Misogyny! Miscegenation! Homosexuality! Obama!

    All I can say is, if You're out there anywhere, God, You've got Your work cut out for You.  Time for some smiting, Big Fella.  These guys aren't getting You or Your Only Begotten Son at all.


    There is a subset of people who label themselves Christian that project violent acts onto those with whom they disagree. Tale tale signs are hatred of homosexuals, subjugate of women, and ignoring racism when it stares them ithe face. They will quote snippets to support their philosophy. The problem with the snippet interpretation is that it can lead to the wrong conclusion. "First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers" is a famous line. Taken out of context, it could lead to the conclusion that lawyers in the tale are scum-buckets. It leads one away from noticing the evil spewing from the mouths of those speaking the words. Snippets have to be placed in the context of an entire text.

    There are scholars who spend their lives interpreting texts. These scholars are open to criticism and create lively debate. Those who read texts In isolation, believing that they alone have the true understanding of the text, rejecting the words of those who look at the era the text originated, and the proper translation of the words at the time they were written can be viewed as lacking the knowledge base to impart anything useful.

    Religious texts are no different than secular texts. First, let's kill all the lawyers can be used to describe lawyers as evil or lawyers as a force for good. Of course, it could have simply been a lawyer joke. Statements in books are frequently taken out of context. The Duck Dynasty guy probably has some ridiculous interpretations of the coloring books he has read as well.

    Well, all kidding aside (reluctantly), they label themselves Christians.  They really need to stop that.

    Every Bible I've seen they left out the Beatletunes for The Psalms. NKJV, New Modern KJ, Amplified, with Concordance, all of 'em. But this could foster new interest in the Bible - the Dynasty Version, alias the Duck Chronicles. Huey, Duey, Louie, Scrooge McDuck, and now The Phil-i-stine himself. Or Phyllis for short when he goes cross dressing, his favorite fashion accessory.

    If there is just one bible why isn't there just one bible?  it's those kinds of things that, if I didn't have other things to do, would keep me awake at night.

    Love your Duck Dynasty version.  I'll bet it's miles better than Phil's.

    I have trouble looking at that guy.  I keep expecting little critters to come crawling out of his hair. 

    Lol.  Notice that cruel glare.  That's to keep the critters out.

    The first thing that came in to my mind was the ignorance of confusing an anarchist with an atheist...   Still an outstandingly idiotic and outrageous load of garbage but that's what I first thought when I read his ridiculous rant.  

    Lol.  Pretty sure he meant atheist.  They're far worse than anarchists, don't you know?

    Aren't those anarcho-syndicalists some kind of newspaper journalists?

    Naw.  No such thing as newspaper journalists anymore.  Anachronisms can't be anarchists--not even syndicated ones.

    This guy has really weird thoughts, like he has a love of torture porn. He is a perfect Republican. 

    In that same Bible we are told to love, love, love and when through, love some more. And to not judge - God will do that.

    So here I go judging - but I TRULY don't know where these so-called Christians get off acting like this. I've heard them referred to as the "American Taliban," and I really can't see where that is off. I hear so much filth and hatred coming out of their mouths, I can only imagine that God weeps...

    I'll never understand why true Christians aren't up in arms over these phonies.  There is nothing "Christian" about them yet they do and say the most hateful things under that mantel.  Why aren't millions of Christians complaining? 

    Ya got me, Ramona...No one wants to talk about it. I seriously can't get a straight answer from any of my Christian friends. When I ask, they change the subject.

    Which reminds me, Resistance hasn't had anything to say on this thread, or is he/she banned from your threads?

    No, Resistance hasn't been banned.  Just very quiet.  I'm surprised.  This would surely be "on topic".

    If Progressive Christians spent time worrying about Duck Dynasty guy and his ilk, there would be little else to do. All Progreesive Christians have done so far is be involved in ending Stop and Frisk, where Sharpton got the LBGT community and OWS involved in a coalition. They are involved in fighting voter suppression with Moral Mondays. They wee out front in Ferguson. They lead efforts in environmental issues. They are involved in Women's issues and a host of other things. They stay pretty busy. If they responded every time a Christianist like Duck Dynasty guy or someone on the Left ridiculed their religion, Progressive Christians wouldn't be getting stuff done. The next time you see conflict in the black community arise, take a note who shows up to provide aid, comfort, and guidance. 

    Progressive Christian feed the poor daily. They open their churches and often have storefront  and shelters providing protection from the elements.While their religion is ridiculed, they provide service. They wonder if those secular folks will be organizing to fill in the gaps to aid the poor as the country becomes more secular. In the meantime, they just note that Pat Robertson or Duck Dynasty guy said something not supported by Scripture and move on.

    Edit to add:: Name the Progressive Christian MSM keeps on speed dial to counter the nut jobs. MSM has the same religious bias as others. They present Duck Dynasty as Christianity and then the host or a guest will bash the statements. No one will argue this is not Christianity

    You're right about their service, rmrd.  It's impressive and welcomed.  I understand that those in the trenches don't have time to counter this craziness, but there are plenty more who could be doing it, and should be doing it.  The Christian hate crowd is becoming so mainstream they're affecting our daily lives in ways that are much too intrusive. 

    They're electing their own and are now making discriminatory laws based on their own skewed versions of not just religion, but a specific religion--Christianity.  They want to change school curriculum to suit them.  They want to ban books.  They want to make women subservient to them, and they want to keep people poor.

    We who are not Christians don't have nearly the authority to stop them that true Christians do.  A Christian uprising against them would stop them dead in their tracks.  It's not happening.

    The problem is the only place to speak out is on blogs and some news websites. On MSM except for perhaps Sharpton and Harris-Perry shows, there will be no one brought on to flatly state that this is not Christianity.

    I don't believe that.  There are millions of American Christians in hundreds of thousands of churches.  If they wanted their voices to be heard, they would be heard.  They're a huge movement with infinite power, but for some reason they refuse to confront what is surely an evil misuse of their religion.

    I don't understand these people at all. Actually, I hate them. Hate hate hate them. I have to deal with a barely suppressed state of rage whenever I have to listen to them, whenever they post on the internet, speak on videos. It's not just that I disagree with them on virtually every policy position. It's not just their ignorance, their desperate clinging to lies, or their complete rejection of any factual basis for their beliefs. It's not just that they are unwilling to even make the slightest attempt to read or study to try to find the truth. It's not just that I think they are hurting people and hurting this country. It's shit like this that cause me to positively fucking hate them. But as much as I hate them I've never sat around the house fantasizing about their children getting raped, their wife getting raped in front of them no less, or their cocks being cut off and waved in their face. It's not something I'd joke about. It's not something I'd find funny. It's not something I'd laugh about, not even about these people that I hate.

    What is wrong with these people? To me they just seem fucking insane.

    No, they're not unordinary enough to be insane. They're just primitive, and primitive can go to whatever extremes because everything's hilarious when you're in the range of dumb to dumbest. I watched a yokel drive his SUV into the snow, and I knew he was going to do it despite there not being any exit from the resort that way - he just had a yuck-yuck-yuck attitude and an expensive SUV, so would be willing to screw around for the next 2 hours trying to dig it out and then call a tractor, all because life is one delerious joke. Another guy keeps sending me the most primitive videos - such as someone spraying out the inside of a car at a carwash, just to make fun of some minority or other. They're humored by the tiniest things. Small amounts of brain cells resonate much easier I guess.

    Stupid fun is one thing, but these people are becoming dangerous because their numbers are growing and they're infiltrating our government at every level.  Religious hate is becoming normal.  It's entertainment.  We're moving rightward in the worst ways and the pseudo-religious way is the worst. 

    Some of these people are in my own family and there is no explaining to them that the most vicious books of the Old Testament are cautionary tales and not God's truth.  Whatever good religion does is overshadowed by the crazies who mold their "beliefs" to fit perfectly with their fears and paranoia.

    They have to be stopped.

    They are in government because someone is paying their way in.  We are going to see so much stupid in the next year and half.  

    We might as well be prepared.  Religion is the shiniest armor in their arsenals.  They know people will fall for the God talk and think it's legit--and so far they've been right.

    Ramona, do you have a source for citing their numbers are growing? I don't have one disputing it, but my sense is their numbers are dwindling, and that is where their fear is coming from.

    Note I'm using third person here...which is very hard for me. I consider myself to be a Christian, but not "one of them."  These people are sorely testing my faith, because it is so hard to separate "them" from Christianity.

    Now infiltrating the government...yes. And that is scary. There are very valid reasons that our founders insisted on the separation of church and state, and this melding is a very bad thing for our country, especially with so many non-Christian Americans. 

    I'm not sure how this plays out, but I suspect its going to be VERY ugly.

    The fact that more and more pseudo-Christians are getting elected to offices throughout the land based on "faith and family values" tells me there's something insidious going on and it has nothing to do with true Christianity. 

    There is now a definite religious test for politicians running for office, and, for the most part, they'd better be Christian.  They cannot--I repeat, CANNOT--be atheists.

    There is a Tea Party Caucus in Congress, 100% "Christian", working diligently to bring religion/Christianity into government.

    The GOP candidates on the 2016 presidential list are all conservative Christians who sing it out loud and proud, letting their constituents know that "taking back the country" means moving it toward "Christian values".

    I keep hearing that fundamentalist or conservative Christian numbers are small and I have nothing to go on to dispute that except what I'm seeing in the halls of power now. 

    This movement is phony and not based on true numbers of Christians--conservative, fundamentalist, or otherwise.  It is, instead, based on a rotten, deliberately whackadoodle perception of what a faith-based country should look like.

    I'll admit I'm terrified that it's working too well and the folks who could put a stop to it--other Christians who draw the line at appearing to attack their own--want to pretend it doesn't exist.


    Ramona, I don't think its a pretense that it doesn't exist, it is more that they nut jobs are not considered important. You are going to be arguing about hellfire reigning down, slavery is Biblical, and women are subservient to men among other things. The snippet argument is easy. Scripture will be quoted by the nuts. The counter argument provides interpretion and not sound bites. The context argument requires are larger investment of time than is likely allowed on TV. 

    I do understand your point. Creeflo Dollar is a TV pastor who asked for donations for a private jet on his website. The response was to let Black radio show hosts ridicule him to death. Pastor Dollar pulled the request from his website. I think the feeling is these folks self destruct. Eddie Long, another pastor, was a raging homophobe. Naturally he had a desire for young men in his flock and was public ally humiliated.

    I think you're missing my point.  There are prosperity preachers all over the place, black and white.  Scammers that they are, they're the least of our problems.  I'm talking about the power brokers--the ones using Christianity to build and enjoy power at the expense of our citizens.  They've infiltrated our government and our schools. I guarantee that every GOP 2016 candidate will be preaching the hard stuff, sounding just like Ayatollahs until the November elections.  They're becoming more and more dangerous and I'll say it again--I don't care what they're calling themselves these days, they need to be stopped.

    Pence's actions in Indiana are only the beginning.  Without some serious opposition coming from outraged true Christians, we'll be seeing more and more discrimination based on "religious values".


    There is a backlash that will wake up Indiana on this mistake. Corporations in Indiana are not happy with it.  They do business internationally and don't want their customers and employees mistreated.  It is bad for business.  

    Pence is getting some bad press, all right.  That picture of the clerics at the secret signing looked a bit too much like Salem during the witch hunts.  Things are getting very weird.

    I agree that there needs to be serious uproar in the Christian community, I just have no idea where it will come from. It is very difficult for Christians to rise up against each other, especially when it means the appearance of siding with non-believers, or in this case "baby-killers" and/or the "abomination" of homosexuality, whether they are believers or not.

    There must be SOMEONE in Christian leadership who finds this appalling, but as with the caucuses sticking together in congress, having the balls to stand up to fellow pastors and calling them out is a whole 'nuther thing.

    Come to think of it, I don't think we've heard from Jimmy Carter lately...Maybe it's time to get him to smack them around a bit!

    Doesn't it say somewhere in our founding documents there is to be no religious test for holding office?

    I sited a source several months ago before the election that the mega churches was loosing members.  This was making it difficult for these churches to rake in the large amount of money needed to maintain them.  The older generations was aging out and the younger ones were not that interested.  Many of them just don't have the money and time for this.  They also don't agree with the social repression and racism that is coming from these zealots. 

    The drop off membership was at all levels.  I also think it has to do with the economy. 

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