The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age

    Pence helped

    By Flavius on Tue, 10/04/2016 - 11:19pm |

    the Pence candidacy in 2020. 

    If he hadn't ended with his moving right- to- life statement he might have also  provided a small gain for the ticket but,unfairly,  that sincere discussion will detract more from the Trump campaign than he assisted it with his polished performance. Fortunately.

    Comments

    I'm more pro-Kaine than the pundits on this debate. He may not have bolstered his own career, but he was constantly on offense, kept the focus on Trump's flaws, and drove a wedge between Pence and Trump. I say mission accomplished.


    by Michael Wolraich on Tue, 10/04/2016 - 11:46pm

    In actuality , yes. But if the counter factual applied: they didn't end with Roe v Wade, I don't know.


    by Flavius on Tue, 10/04/2016 - 11:52pm

    I agree. Kaine defended Hillary well and hit Trump hard several times. Pence choose not to address those hits. Whether Pence's obfuscations were successful in confusing or fooling the undecided voters is a question I am never able to answer. I think Kaine clearly won and I have a much better feeling for him than when Hillary picked him. I'm guessing we all were a bit disappointed at that pick. He's smart and a quick thinker.  At the very least Kaine didn't hurt Hillary and Pence didn't help Trump. With Trump slumping and Hillary rising a wash is ok.


    by ocean-kat on Wed, 10/05/2016 - 12:21am

    I just wanted to joggle Pence to speed him up already. And the abbreviated clip I saw had Pence interrupting a lot - won't waste my time to correct the rather boring record. Pence shaking his head sadly and determinedly isn't enough to erase inherent police bias with so many video clips to prove it, and acting like the economy's in 2008 squared is rich. Send him back to Indiana where shucking works.

    I think Kaine speaks too complicated, soft and fast for most Americans to get, but most what he said is fine. Anyway, debate seemed better than dramomine - Pence will drone off for another few minutes with his alternate reality....zzzzzzzzx


    by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 10/05/2016 - 12:51am

    Pence denied documented facts dozens of times.  Whether Hillary uses this in ads, she could.

    What's amazing is to remember one of Gore's big "gotcha" mistakes was he showed up with the head of FEMA on a different day than he said. So glad the press goes out of its way to keep Dems "honest" while giving the GOP credit for just showing up and breathing, even if a bit ghoulishly.


    by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 10/12/2016 - 2:08pm

    Sometimes when listening to the commentators, I wonder if I was watching the same debate they were. This was one of them.

    I thought Kaine was clearly the winner. He was specific and concise. Pence lied over and over in a very soft voice that came across as sincere, unless you knew he was lying, and had NO policy specifics. It was the same "make America great again" BS, with no plans for how that would happen, except we'll be strong. I don't even know what that means in practice. One of the commentators said that was Pence's opening of his 2020 run for president, and I agree. He distanced himself from his boss, and pretty much refused to defend him.

    Kaine on the other hand defended Hillary and spoke well for her.

    I can't help but think trump will be very annoyed with his running mate, if he wasn't already.

     


    by stillidealistic on Wed, 10/05/2016 - 12:42am

    Sometimes when listening to the commentators, I wonder if I was watching the same debate they were. This was one of them.

    The same thought crossed my mind. I listened a bit to the network political soothsayers after the debate and they were saying how Pence kept mostly a calm and presidential demeanor and how Kaine was a feisty interrupter. I saw Pence, over and over, searching for responses to Kaine's responses to the moderator's questions. To me, Pence seemed contained, frustrated and a bit school-marmish with his head shaking and side-ways dirty looks. Most notably, Pence did not rise to defend Trump, but then, it's difficult to defend the indefensible. Kaine gave him ample opportunities--six was the number he offered. That made me chuckle a little.

    The soothsayers may change their opinions as the days go by and Kaine may start looking a little better to them. They don't have a lot of time to dawdle. The next presidential debate is less than a week away and they'll have fresh fodder to feed us.

    I won't be making an effort to watch the remaining debates. By this time, there is nothing new for either candidate to say that concerns anything affecting the nation or it's condition.

     


    by wabby on Wed, 10/05/2016 - 7:32am

    I disliked Kaine nodding his head yes when Pence spoke. Needs to learn control, so doesnt appear to agree with the enemy


    by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 10/05/2016 - 9:53am

    OK,ok. Cease firing. I get it. The mob is in the streets and if it's anointed Kaine  Debater-in-chief,  that's my position too and anyone who claims otherwise is a slave to consistency .

     This is a case in which  what 50.009% of the viewers decides is the truth , is the truth.

     Or to once again rely on the sage wisdom of Leo Durocher : " show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser."

     


    by Flavius on Wed, 10/05/2016 - 7:52am

    I'm less concerned about who Dagblog thinks won ,and more concerned about the general populace. It's votes I want, nothing less. I took a look at Dallas' paper, Tampa's, should find a right wing one in VA and Ohio.


    by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 10/05/2016 - 1:57pm

    Well Flavius, we all got to witness this debate and I do not give a damn what the 'pundits' think.

    I admit that it is fun to see Mika flounder....I mean she has nothing to say as far as complete sentences of course and Mornin Joke just highlights the repub talking lines. Joe speaks out of both sides of his mouth so that he can quote himself later on. hahahahah

    I just know that Pence lied at least twenty times during the 'debate'.

    Oh he never said that.

    Oh I never said that.

    Oh let us get back to the 'issues'. hahahahah

    Sunday nite we shall see or we shall view new polls within three or four days after the fact.

    Time is of the essence and T-Rump has no essence.

    As the blind man might say:

    WE SHALL SEE

    We continue to be a baseball/football nation of men.

    As an aside, my Vikings (like the Vikings are mine) are 4 and 0 and they should not be according to ESPN and

    if we go to 5 and 0, the sports pundits will find other excuses.

    Pence after all is a racist and a misogynist and an ethnic prick who has no empathy with those who do not have and....

    There I go again.

    By Sunday night not one thing said in the VP debates will matter a whit.


    by Richard Day on Wed, 10/05/2016 - 2:27pm