MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Rudolph Cardwell Sr., Perlista Henry, Ralph Northam, Linda Cardwell, Danny Cardwell
Ralph has to go! There's no way he can continue as the Governor of Virginia. This is a painful sentence to write, but a necessary one. I've covered the Governor at a debate, a ribbon cutting, and a few other small events. I've met him a handful of times. I sincerely thought he was the real deal. He came off as a kind and caring person, but he has to resign. I was fooled. We all were fooled. He. Has. To. Go.
If Governor Northam turned over a new leaf and changed his "past" racist ways he did a horrible job of trying to convince us. His press conference was painful. He either doesn't get the outrage behind his past actions or doesn't care. His apology was almost as disappointing as his yearbook photo and past fascination with Blackface. He acted as if he found out Friday this picture existed. He expected us to believe that a 25 year old intelligent medical student didn't have the intellectual horsepower to know how offensive those images have always been. He. Has. To.Go.
Governor Northam is the kind of politician older Black activist have been warning me about. He's the kind of politician I've been writing about since I started participating in politics. He's the kind of white politician who shows up in Black churches singing hymns and talking about how bad racism is. He's the kind of Democratic politician who understands how important the Black vote is and will say anything to get it. He's the kind of politician who makes communities of color distrustful of election year shenanigans. His presences in the Governor's mansion is a slap in the face to voters of color who have been taken for granted by the very politicians they entrusted with their support. He. Has. To. Go.
This has been a disastrous week for the governor. He started out having his words willfully distorted concerning Delegate Kathy Tran's abortion bill, and now he is facing calls for his resignation by many of the Virginia (and national) politicians who helped him ascend to the office of Lieutenant Governor and ultimately Governor. I'm sure he wishes he could return to the good ole days where the most controversial issue he had to deal with was the amount of money he has taken from Dominion Energy and his tacit support of the Atlantic Coast Pipeline. He has to resign before Virginia Democrats are forced to impeach him. The only noble thing left for him to do in Virginia politics is save us from the media circus that would follow impeachment proceedings. He. Has. To. Go.
Comments
Thanks, Danny. How could Northam not know if he was in an offensive picture? Then he tells us about shoe polish and Michael Jackson. This was while he was in medical school. There are other yearbook pictures of medical students in blackface. Couple this with multiple medical studies that document black patients receive a lower level of healthcare compared to whites. This disparity occurs despite equal income and levels of insurance. The pictures help solidify concerns about how black patients are treated in hospital and in outpatient care. Who was in charge of what went on in the yearbook?
Apparently, he had to call classmates to find out if he was in the original photo. That is insane.
In 1984, Jesse Jackson was running for President. In 1984, a sitcom “Giimme A Break” starring Nell Carter was aware enough to broadcast an episode that discussed the hurt associated wit blackface. There is no excuse.
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/heres-the-1984-sitcom-episode-that-dealt-with-blackface-while-ralph-northam-was-moonwalking/
Thanks for adding more balance to the debate.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 02/03/2019 - 6:15pm
He has to go.
by Danny Cardwell on Sun, 02/03/2019 - 6:04pm
If the Michael Jackson dance skit was the first time Northam used shoe polish, how did he know that it was difficult to remove shoe polish? That may suggest that he applied shoe polish on other occasions.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 02/03/2019 - 6:19pm
Northam is holding staff meetings. He is considering “options”, including resigning.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/pressure-mounts-for-northam-to-resign-as-allies-press-him-on-national-tv/2019/02/03/572f4538-27c1-11e9-b2fc-721718903bfc_story.html?utm_term=.d49c1242b1ce
Elie Mystal: No argument for Northam to keep his job
https://www.thenation.com/article/ralph-northam-resign-virginia-racism/
Northam betrayed black voters
https://www.thedailybeast.com/ralph-northams-blackface-gives-virginia-a-black-eye
Black voter anger and sadness
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/anger-and-saddness-as-african-americans-in-virginia-consider-northams-fate/2019/02/03/2cfb81d2-27e9-11e9-984d-9b8fba003e81_story.html?utm_term=.c43712c9d512
Edit to add:
From the Charlotte Observer:
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article225484155.html
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 02/04/2019 - 1:16am
Northam’s medical school stopped publishing yearbooks after 2013. The then new provost discovered pictures of students posing in Confederate garb and with Confederate flags. This was 30 years after the offensive pictures in the 1984 yearbook. The school is investigating how racist pictures would up in the yearbooks.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/northams-med-school-banned-yearbooks-in-2013--after-students-posed-in-confederate-garb/2019/02/04/6050fa70-288a-11e9-8eef-0d74f4bf0295_story.html?utm_term=.6b0f25e1edb3
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 02/04/2019 - 2:36pm
Alumi from Northum's era are queried in this other WaPo article, including two African Americans and a Jew. Results are not what you'd think from the headline. So they either must have been clueless to the racism that was around them, or it was so well hidden they didn't notice it, or they are lying. It is curious. Times change, people change, and people often don't remember stuff, especially if it wasn't traumatic.
Analysis: Northam struggles to escape Virginia’s troubled past — and his own By Peter Jamison, Michael Laris and
Fenit Nirappil February 2@ WaPo
by artappraiser on Mon, 02/04/2019 - 3:18pm
If things were good, why did Northam apologize initially?
Did they know about Northam’s blackface skit?
The school stopped publishing a yearbook after 2013 because people were posing in Confederate uniforms. Do those facts alter your opinion?
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 02/04/2019 - 3:29pm
he apologized here too, it's in the same article:
Most politicians are not perfect men and women, they are not saints.
I agreed with NCD that he did a lousy job of explaining himself. But that's not my business that I don't see him as very savvy at handling this, it's the business of the people who voted for him and the Dem party of VA and I wish that the rest of the nation would not show so much interest, especially when it is found to be a right wing op and is about something more than a couple decades old and the person has a clean record doing good work and living a good life at least a decade. Like I said, me, I'd vote for a reformed felon if I thought they were going to do a good job. We have a lot worse right now. I believe that redemption is possible.
Truth be told, if you are not a Virginian, I find your jihad to crucify in this situation repellant. You sound like a prosecutor in a trial about a horrendous murder. I'd be frightened of you not him. He's embarrassed. But you are not embarrassed to be feeding the right wing website's desires.They play you like a fiddle and you are happy to oblige. Where symbolism is everything and reality is nothing.
I imagine what other reformed racists think when they see such a jihad. I have same in my own family. It would not be progress to pick at what they once were. They might give up their reformation. Tolerance goes all ways, it is not being all fire and brimstone litmus tests.
by artappraiser on Mon, 02/04/2019 - 3:56pm
It’s a national story whether you like it or not.
If a racist objects when something racist like blackface is pointed out, perhaps they are not reformed.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 02/04/2019 - 4:18pm
The African-American physicians interviewed said that things were good at the medical school. Northam called classmates to determine if he was one of the men in the original photo. That suggests that blackface was worn at parties and Klan garb was considered Ok. I doubt that the African- American physicians were aware that such parties were occurring. Do you think the African-American physicians would have said things were good if they knew about the blackface and Klan garb at parties?
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 02/04/2019 - 4:27pm
Was something deleted?
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 02/05/2019 - 10:53am
Now the AG admits to wearing blackface.
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/06/691989587/virginia-ag-says-he-dressed-as-a-rapper-and-wore-brown-makeup-at-a-1980-party
One party’s leadership was comfortable wearing blackface, the other is comfortable running a white supremacy campaign and maintaining Confederate statues and waving Confederate flags. Voters were unaware. Northam’s Democratic challenger might have won the primary.
Edit to add:
For those who think this is much ado about nothing, there is a plan for a pipeline that will destroy a historically black district. Northam personally removed two members of a board that had to approve the plan. Those two members questioned the location and safety of the pipeline. Northam has lost trust because of the pipeline plan. The blackface photo does not build confidence.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/va-governor-removes-two-board-members-ahead-of-crucial-vote-on-pipeline-project/2018/11/16/69e8af78-e9a2-11e8-a939-9469f1166f9d_story.html?utm_term=.d8b647e42c22
2nd Edit to add:
Vote for Northam because the Republican will disrupt your community.
Northam wore blackface. Northam is destroying a historic black community.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 2:26pm
Before it comes out I have to confess that when I was younger I usually went barefoot. It got to the point that the soles of my feet were so tough I could walk on any surface without shoes. Of course much of the ground that I walked on was made of dirt which was often quite dirty. Consequently my feet were often dirty. Sometimes with the dirt so deeply ingrained that I was nearly impossible to wash off. My feet were black with dirt. Yes I quite often wore blackfeet in my youth. I realize most of you will now shun me. I deserve it. All of us who wore blackfeet or blackface deserve it. We should all be shunned and driven from the democratic party. If this means republicans take over it's all for the best. A policy of zero tolerance and no forgiveness will make the democratic party pure and therefore stronger. I see now that having republicans in charge is the best thing for the democratic party and black people.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 3:02pm
Ah, so you're a pied noir... so was Camus.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 3:05pm
People in the district are able to make a connection between the photo and the pipeline.
https://www.newsleader.com/story/news/2019/02/04/black-neighborhood-unio...
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 3:13pm
Most of the people in the cities wear shoes. Many of the people in the poor white rural areas can't afford shoes and often wear blackfeet. There is a direct connection between the photo and the blackfeet of the white rural communities. You are so wise to have zero tolerance over this issue. When Northam and his AG resign a republican will take over as governor of Virginia and everything will be so much better for Virginian black people.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 3:28pm
If Northam is OK with destroying their district, what is the benefit of having him in office?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 3:36pm
Ok with it? I suspect he's building 600 miles of pipeline just to destroy that one small black town. The photo tells the whole story and it's all we need to know. Blacks in Virginia will be so much better off when republicans are in charge. That's the payday you'll get in the end for your zero tolerance policies. Congratulations!
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 3:43pm
Trump wants to build a wall. In doing so he will have to destroy a historic church in Texas. Democrats are opposing the plan. I think their constituents will e happier than those in Virginia.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/judge-allows-trump-admin-to-survey-historic-churchs-land-for-border-wall?ref=home
You argument seems to be that blacks should be happy that it is a Democrat who removed two people from an oversight board.destroying their homes. It would be much worse if their homes were destroyed by a Republican?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 4:03pm
What's the argument? I'm agreeing with you that removing a democratic governor and a democratic AG to get a republican governor is the best thing that could happen to blacks in Virginia. Zero tolerance works. Given the advantage an incumbent has after 4 years of republican rule he'll likely be re-elected. Woo hoo, great for blacks is Virginia. Nice to be on the same page with you after all these years.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 4:19pm
You are correct. Blacks in the impacted district won’t see a difference.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 4:32pm
Blacks across the state will be better off with republicans in charge. You''re doing a good thing for blacks by pushing democrats out in favor of republicans.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 4:47pm
There are elections in Virginia this year. All 40 Senate seats and 100 House seats will be on the ballot. Northam could guarantee a Republican legislature.That would really help blacks in Virginia.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 5:04pm
Said I was out of this but I do have to butt in once more because I wonder: where did you see he was actually going to resign? I've seen this other story, and am not surprised that it's also been a favorite in right wing leaning media: Ralph Northam mulls leaving Democratic Party to hold onto governor's seat @ Washington Examiner, | February 06, 2019 07:27 AM. Again I am reminded that no one knows the percentage of party loyalists in the state because when they register, they don't indicate. They've just been voting for Dems of late, doesn't mean they are all Dems. It will be interesting to continue to watch what the people of Virginia do.
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 3:43pm
You got me thinking about "walk like an Egyptian" and then my mind went to this, and it turns out it's from 1979, and damn, sure enough, his lyrics might be considered pretty damn outrageous to some today
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 4:45pm
Offering only because I would think everyone interested would like to know about the article
The actual CNN headline is The complete and utter collapse of Virginia's Democratic Party
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 5:18pm
and the Politico.com website has a huge point headline of this right now:
VIRGINIA/ 'Utterly shocked and terrified': Fairfax accuser details alleged assault
Vanessa Tyson called the encounter with Fairfax 'horrific' and said it has caused her 'deep humiliation and shame.'
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 5:20pm
all the current WaPo home page stories:
On the brink of historic gains, Virginia Democrats now in full-blown crisis
A sense of despair has permeated a party that days ago believed it was on the cusp of cementing control of the state and winning majorities in both legislative houses this fall.
Analysis: Here’s who’s next in line for the governorship — after the attorney general
Mark R. Herring’s admission was the third recent scandal among the state’s Democratic leaders, coming days after Gov. Ralph Northam was linked to a racist photo and Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax was accused of a 2004 sexual assault.
The Fix: Herring wanted Northam to resign for wearing blackface. What about him?
Woman who accused Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax of sexual assault identifies herself and gives her account of what happened
Vanessa Tyson, a college professor, described the alleged incident in a statement. Fairfax has denied the allegation.
And on New York Times' home page:
CRISIS IN VIRGINIA
Virginia Attorney General Says He Also Dressed in Blackface
19m ago
Woman Accusing Justin Fairfax of Sexual Assault Comes Forward
Vanessa C. Tyson, an associate professor at Scripps College, said that in 2004 Lt. Gov. Justin E. Fairfax of Virginia forced her to perform oral sex.
14m ago
Yearbook Pages at Northam’s Medical School Recorded Both Memories and Prejudices
Black students from that era recalled a divided campus in which they and their white classmates sat in class together but largely socialized apart.
7h ago
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 5:48pm
All the Democrats had to do was pretend the photos and the press conference didn’t exist.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 5:53pm
No no no, the democratic party is not in utter collapse. Sometimes you have to destroy the town in order to save it.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 5:57pm
You 60's hippies are all the same. Go ahead, quote Pogo w "we have met the enemy, and he is us". And maybe Rambi, "do we get to win this time?"
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 6:22pm
Not The Onion, this new tidbit along those lines is real:
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 6:23pm
P.S. BEER?
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 6:25pm
And in reading some of the most recent news articles (unfortunately helping feed the frenzy again), I would just like to note that this is no college incident from 1980, but rather, she claims it happened at the Democratic National Convention in in Boston in 2004.
Certainly reminds me of the word circular (where people can add their own metaphors to that as is their slant.)
by artappraiser on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 6:38pm
Wouldn’t tribal behavior be manifested by standing by Northam? True tribe behavior includes making excuses for Northam.
Edit to add:
Given the idea that the Democratic tribe is better than the Republican tribe, the tribe should protect Northam at all costs. Calling for Northam’s removal would not be the action taken by a true tribe. Finding blackface unacceptable would be what a group of individuals agreeing to work for common goals might do. Some individuals may connect blackface with its racist history. Some might even wonder if medical students who wore blackface and a medical school that published a yearbook with blackface photos can be trusted to treat black patients. A tribe would simply make excuses.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 11:07pm
Because. No. One. Ever. Changes.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 11:18pm
They. Never. Got. Caught. Until. Now.
You have no problem with Northam destroying a.historic black district. He removed people who opposed the plan.
Edit to add:
The Northam photo puts a face to the discrimination black patients feel in physician’s offices
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/blackface-photo-reopens-long-history-of-bigotry-in-medicine_us_5c5bbd1de4b08710475aadb0
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 8:04am
None of us got caught for the shit we did 35 years ago. If we were both of us, both you and I and everyone posting here would be either forgiven or shunned.
There's 600 miles of pipe line. They changed the map several times to attempt to avoid conflicts but it's impossible to avoid everyone. I don't study in depth every pipeline built in every state so I don't know much about this particular pipe line. I'm sure there are white areas affected and black areas affected. There always are when these large projects are planned. It's inevitable. I don't know if I would support the project or not. I don't live in VA. One thing I'm sure of. This is a project supported by several democrats. They took care to affect as few people as possible without bias. That Northam wore blackface 35 years ago tells us nothing about the project. It's just convenient to claim it to fight the project and it's planned path. You're buying into it to attack Northam.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 8:21am
For the community involved, there is zero difference between having a Democratic candidate in charge or having a Republican in charge. They are screwed. They have no reason to put a benign reason to the destruction of their community given the removal of opponents of the plan from the board. People in Virginia are calling for Northam to step down, the author of this post for one Voters are upset cause Northam wasn’t truthful. His Democratic opponent might have been elected Governor, and may be free of “issues”. Northam’s response does not instill confidence. Democrats in the legislature don’t trust him.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 8:51am
On issue after issue and comment after comment you are obviously wrong. There are more republicans and more whites along the path of the pipeline than democrats. One quick glance at a map of election results by county will tell you that. It's likely that most of those along that path are against the pipeline because of NIMBY. That pipeline is going to be built no matter who is governor. Yet even if the pipeline is their most important issue there are other issues that will affect them. If your zero tolerance policy forces out the democrats and you get a republican governor there will be a significant number of bills that will not pass the governors veto or that will be altered to more reflect republican views to get the republican governor's signature. Some will be happy about that and others unhappy, even those along the path of the pipeline who consider that their most important issue. But the party of the governor in a state like Virginia can affect every person in the US. Virginia is a purple state. The power of the governor has a non trivial effect on national election results and could be enough to throw the state to republicans not just in local elections but in the presidential election.
Whether one should be forgiven for mistakes made 35 or more years ago is a subjective opinion. After reading your posts for more than a decade it's clear you are the most judgemental and least forgiving person here. Therefore it's a safe bet that no matter what the "sin" or how great the distance in time you will recommend punishment or banishment more often than anyone else here.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 1:53pm
I agree with your last paragraph. And I mention it only because I would just like to clarify that this is always my angle: I always wonder if he really does intend to sound like Cotton Mather hunting sinners, or if he would like to refine his rhetoric and learn not to come off that way and persuade people. Because it's not working, it seems to get the opposite reaction too often.
Cardwell's opinion here is a perfect example of the difference: it is his opinion and I accept it. I don't feel he is preaching at me. He has learned to communicate his opinion without that. And the ironic thing is: he is active in his church as a Deacon. He must be very very good at it.
by artappraiser on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 2:01pm
Pointing out new viewpoints like the WaPo editorial is preaching?
Edit to add:
I reply to counter your argument. I expect you to disagree. I’m not trying to convince you of anything.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 2:32pm
well to be blunt, to me you usually come off as: I'm here to post blacksplain' for dumb whitey at Dagblog, that I know what most blacks feel and think and you don't and you need to know it and I represent them all and I am gonna push that here until you cry uncle.
Edit to add: and I believe that it is allowed on this website and in this country. Just trying to express how your modus operandi comes across to this one reader and wondering whether you intend that or would like to refine how you come across to readers like me.
by artappraiser on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 2:56pm
Comes to mind it is not an usual modus operandi, Lulu does it with peacenik stuff. And one can also see the reaction he gets by doing that, the "where's the outrage?!" looking for dittoheads thing. Not many dittoheads here.
by artappraiser on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 3:02pm
Cut the crap. I simply disagree with your arguments on many occasions. You bring the drama.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 8:39pm
Really? “People in Virginia are calling for Northam to step down
WAPO:
More WAPO:
I agree with Ocean Kat. People change. Have your opinions about white people changed over the years, or should we go by the assumptions that you drop here? Were you more bitter, or less in your twenty’s? Did you ever say things that would prohibit you from running for office now?
Mostly, I wonder if you are being honest when you say that blacks would be better off with Republicans in charge. Because that is what we have with trump. I won’t argue because it is so obvious.
BTW, I live in Virginia, am against the pipeline, and voted for Tom Periello (not Northam) but I assure you that your claim about the pipeline affecting mainly black communities is utter bullshit. One of the biggest protesters is Wintergreen Ski Resort, and most of the pipeline work has been chopping trees down in areas that are wooded next to highway 29 South.
The L. Governor’ accusations seem more troublesome to me. They are actual crimes, and the accusers seem to be credible. I think he will not survive the review of this.
Northam and Herring did not commit crimes, and their hideous pranks were long ago. I realize you have chosen not to let go of that, but I have.
by CVille Dem on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 7:12pm
You're ruining the hysterical fear and paranoia narrative..
I saw a sarcastic comment elsewhere that sort of jokingly made the point that Northum is the one that may now be cowed some by fear. It suggested he'll probably go round now changing all the Confederate-related monuments to statues of MLK, if not Angela Davis, and preach against racism as his # 1 duty, quoting Malcolm X, etc. (until the next election, that is.)
They lie when they are ashamed: I did not have sexual relations with that woman....
Has he really done anything in his political career that would hurt blacks by virtue of their skin color? I don't know, sincerely asking.
by artappraiser on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 8:21pm
From your perspective, none of this will impact the turnout in November?
Edit to add:
Can Fairfax be impeached for allegations made before he took office in Virginia?
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 9:45pm
Who exactly would impeach him? They are already happily working with him to do something in order to get re-elected in fall.
They are going to impeach him over a 35-yr. old yearbook photo that doesn't identify the figures in it? They (a Republican majority) are going to impeach him for a poor initial apology?
There is a possibility of impeachment of Fairfax (and articles against him have already been drafted by a Dem to be introduced Monday) depending on what comes out of the allegations, but only if that concerns too many female voters and he refused to step down. These are politicians, not hell and damnation preachers. And they won't care what national politicians think, they are state politicians and care about Virginian voters.
On depressing turnout, it will surely happen if national Dems keep taking the bait of the opposition digging for politically incorrect dirt in Dem candidate pasts. Your party will only be left with a few boring saints running for office after the rest have been slain by noise over litmus tests.
by artappraiser on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 10:47pm
The national party is not in collapse.
Stacey Abrams is being praised. Nancy Pelosi’s clap is being used to ridicule Trump and the GOP
To recap:
A Republican who wore blackface resigned immediately
Northam changed his story and had a disastrous press conference. Yeah, let’s back that guy to the hilt. Fellow medical students are apologizing. The medical school is apologizing. The medical school stopped publishing the yearbook because..... racist pictures. Let’s back Northam while the GOP points out their guy who immediately resigned. We won’t lose Senate or House seats in Virginia if we just stay silent.
There is no way the Fairfax story was not going to get out. The woman hired a law firm.
The dumpster fire was set by the Virginia Democratic candidates. Northam knew the pictures existed. Fairfax knew the WaPo had the story.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 8:32pm
Virginia is a dumpster fire.
Northam is underwater in early polling
https://morningconsult.com/2019/02/04/virginia-voters-quickly-sour-on-northam-amid-blackface-scandal/
Too early to tell te impact of the Fairfax allegation.
Perhaps there are some Virginia Democrats who did not wear blackface?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 5:30pm
Two guys wore blackface. That is not in dispute.
Another is accused of rape. The accuser hired a law firm
You cannot ignore this stuff.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 5:46pm
WaPo
”Ralph Northam Must Resign”.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ralph-northam-must-resign/2019/02/06/b1703986-2a40-11e9-b011-d8500644dc98_story.html?utm_term=.5fae3cf13ed2
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/06/2019 - 9:35pm
In case anyone was askin' his opinion:
by artappraiser on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 12:55am
now here's an outsider with a worthwhile point to make:
by artappraiser on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 1:12am
Blackface doctors, blackface legislators, Confederate statutes, historic black district planned destruction, and the Falwell as neighbors. Wow.
How do black students at Liberty put up with this guy?
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 7:53am
From Charles Blow’s Twitter feed
So, asking as a black man, are you saying black people should accept this behavior from the people they vote for because the people they don’t vote for also do it?
https://mobile.twitter.com/CharlesMBlow?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 12:02pm
Only 58% find blackface offensive
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2019/02/07/poll-only-58-percent-of-americans-oppose-blackface/?utm_term=.984830ee7887
Yikes, Megan Kelly was right
https://www.theroot.com/you-mean-to-tell-me-megyn-kelly-was-right-this-whole-da-1832429158
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 12:34pm
And we live in a democratic republic, so unfortunately or fortunately as is your wont, one does have to pay attention to and work with what the majority thinks on all kinds of issues. (The general idea of the nation was E Pluribus Unum, if that helps.)
by artappraiser on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 1:02pm
See Slavery and Jim Crow
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 1:01pm
see Civil War and Reconstruction. How they went about that is argued about a lot.
Edit to add: We're still together, though, some argue barely, but we still are, that's a fact.
by artappraiser on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 1:05pm
I humbly suggest that those interested in changing majority opinion on a cultural issue like this, i.e., "culture wars" wedges that are manipulated by politicians when they need a diversion, need to study how the following was actually accomplished:
STILL A MIND BOGGLING INCIDENCE OF RAPID CULTURE CHANGE
by artappraiser on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 2:48pm
First Falwell opines, now we find that the Republican Senate leader in Virginia edited a VMI yearbook with blackface photos
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/428975-gop-virginia-senator-ove...
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 02/07/2019 - 2:03pm
He should stay.
If we can't make a bad situation good, think about how to make it less bad. To make so much less bad , that it's good.
What can he do for us. How did Iago put it? "Thus do I make my fool my purse" or something like that.
This is a great opportunity.
Danny you know him. Call him. Tell him Governor have we got plans for you.
Revenge is sweet. Until it's cloying. We want to fix things that couldn''t have been
fixed otherwise.
by Flavius on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 3:54am
Should Megan Kelly been taken off air?
Edit to add:
Should we just say nothing to see here for everyone who wears blackface
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 10:05am
Should we just say nothing to see here for everyone who wears blackface
That question has been answered a dozen times in this and the other thread on this subject. You might disagree with that answer but you can't possible be ignorant or confused about that answer. That you're still feigning ignorance shows that you're not interested in honest dialog but just want to win the debate or that you're pushing some agenda.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 10:56am
More from the blowhard.
Edit to add:
87% of black voters cast ballots for Northam. You expect them to do the tribal thing and keep Northam in office. They have other options. If Northam stays and they see poor blacks being dislocated from a historic district, black voters can stay home. If the district is gone whether Northam or a Republican is in charge, why support Northam?
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 11:24am
I never expect anyone to do anything. But the black 15% of the vote doesn't give you veto power over every decision. Just as centrists don't get veto power over the votes of liberals.
If the district is gone whether Northam or a Republican is in charge, why support Northam?
That's another question I've already answered. Repeatedly asking the same question as if it hasn't been answered multiple times before is one of several obfuscation tactics you use to avoid honest dialog. Either that or your reading comprehension is so low you would never have graduated high school.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 11:42am
My reading comprehension is fine. I’m pointing out to you that telling black voters that voting for the “lesser of two evils” is not a good way of getting people out to the polls. Democrats can’t win without the black vote. to capture the Senate is going to require turnout. Northam has tainted the voting pool. You can’t win without the 15%. Being dismissive of the concerns about blackface is not a winning strategy.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 11:47am
Then explain why you keep asking the same question that has already been answered multiple times. Are you too lazy to bother to read the comments? Is it an obfuscation tactic to avoid honest dialog?
Democrats can't win without the votes of those who disagree with you. Being dismissive of their concerns is not a winning strategy. In any decisive issue one side might lose. If more than 15% think Northam's apology is sufficient for a 35 year old mistake isn't forgiveness the least damaging path forward?
by ocean-kat on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 12:00pm
There aren’t enough white Democratic votes in the state.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 12:04pm
More from the stupid piece of shit.
There aren't enough black democratic votes in the state.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 12:12pm
There were enough for Northam to win
Northam got 42% of the White vote to Gillespie’s 57%
Northam got 87% of the black vote to Gillespie’s 12%
Northam won 54-45%
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2017-election/VA
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 12:15pm
It may be that Virginia Democrats are willing to throw both Northam and Fairfax overboard and turn the reigns over to Herring.
https://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKCN1PX0YO
Edit to add:
Justin Fairfax is accusing Richmond VA Mayor Levar Stoney of leaking the information about the alleged sexual assault. Dr Tyson, the accuser, told Democratic US House remember Bobby Scott about the assault in December 2017. Scott offered to be a character witness for Dr Tyson in the allegations she made to the Washington Post . Scott took no other action.
https://www.theroot.com/lt-gov-justin-fairfax-and-richmond-mayor-levar-m-sto-1832436504
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 10:55am
We should fully criticize things that should be criticized . Unless it's against our own interests. And then criticize it as far as it is useful.
For every one of life's problems there's usually a well known solution. That is simple . available, and satisfying .And wrong.
My guide is "What would Obama do?"
by Flavius on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 10:57am
Oh God, we fight the battles it behooves us. "There's something wong on the internet, I have to fix it"
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 11:02am
Northam has been exposed as wearing blackface. Some voters feel betrayed. There are Virginia elections in November. Why wouldn’t these voters just sit at home instead of voting in a party that does not take into account the betrayal they feel about Northam. Democrats risk losing seats.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 11:17am
Other voters don't agree with you. They see PC culture run amok with this punishment of a good democrat over a mistake 35 years ago. A mistake apologized for. Why wouldn't these voters sit at home instead of voting in a party that does not take into account how they feel? What makes your threat to sit home to get your way more valid than any other group's threat to sit home to get their way?
by ocean-kat on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 11:50am
More from the blowhard. Northam’s poll numbers crashed after the blackface photos.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/428391-poll-northam-approval-plummets-after-blackface-photo-emerges
It is hard to see Democrats gaining enthusiasm in the setting of the blackface scandal. Blackface is not a big issue for you. You are not all voters. Blackface is a major issue for others.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 11:59am
More from the blowhard
fuck you you stupid piece of shit.
You are not all voters either.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 12:04pm
As I posted above
There were enough black votes for Northam to win
Northam got 42% of the White vote to Gillespie’s 57%
Northam got 87% of the black vote to Gillespie’s 12%
Northam won 54-45%
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2017-election/VA
No need for profanity
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 12:16pm
You started this name calling. I ignored it the first time and you repeated it. You started name calling because you're a stupid piece of shit. So fuck you.
87% of about 19% of population is numerically less than 42% of 70% of the population. But you're too fucking stupid to understand simple math.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 12:34pm
The 87% provided the margin of victory.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 12:50pm
The 42% provided the majority of the votes. It provided the bulk of the victory.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 1:00pm
Sigh
He would have lost without the 87%.
Which is bigger 42% or 54%.
Edit to add:
If Northam deflates black turnout, some Democrats may lose their elections.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 1:10pm
He would have lost without the 42%. Without the 42% his loss would have been larger than without the 87%. This really is simple mathematics. A large percentage of a small subset is often numerically smaller than a small percentage of a large subset. Candidates win or lose on the raw number of votes they receive.
Edit to add
If forcing Northam to resign deflates the white turnout some democrats may lose. Since the white vote is a larger number of votes a smaller percentage drop in white turnout will result in a larger number of votes lost than a similar percentage drop in black turnout.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 1:33pm
As I noted Northam’s support collapsed. He may drag Democrats down if he remains in office. Given his low approval, it may be best to force his resignation.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 2:38pm
From your link:
Given Northam's total disapproval among democrats is only 25% it may be best to accept his apology and forgive him for a mistake made 35 years ago.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 3:02pm
So you want to take that mat to the November elections?
Also note the Cratering among Independents .
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 3:53pm
You say "low approval", OK responds "disapproval's only 25%", you keep playing "may", now it's worried about "the independents". Except if they resign the Republicans take over anyway. So again, is that a better outcome for stupid stuff done 35 years ago? Today Kavanaugh voted against abortion, as predicted. We know the damage that will come. We get it, blackface is offensive. But the GOP's war on people is more offensive.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 4:30pm
There are elections in November. Having the Governor known for blackface in office may keep voters at home despite the negatives associated with the GOP.
The exact point is that blackface is bad. You seem to think that somehow magically people are going to forgive the Governor and not to decide to sit out 2019 because both political parties are worthless.Dismissing the blackface issue is not an option. Northam is a complete failure at addressing the issue of blackface. He is worthless. He can do harm to the Democrats because.....blackface. He has lost the trust of a significant segment of voters. He is doing nothing to change minds.
Edit to add:
Someone suggested calling the Governor and asking him to do great things. The Governor needs to get off his sorry behind, face the public, kiss behinds and babies. Grovel. He is a detriment to the party.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 4:55pm
When there are two sides on a divisive issue you think your side is the only one that matters. You think if your side loses it will cost the democrats votes but refuse to consider if the other side loses it will also cost the democrats votes. You think there are more people who believe in zero tolerance for mistakes made 35 years ago and there should no forgiveness or acceptance of an apology. I think there are more people who made mistakes in their youth, who have changed and think their apology should be accepted.
Your own link shows that Northam's approval rating is still double his disapproval rating which clearly indicates that more people believe in forgiveness for a mistake made 35 years ago than believe in zero tolerance and no acceptance of an apology.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 6:13pm
See below
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 7:08pm
"You seem to think that somehow magically people are going to forgive the Governor" - no, I think *most* black people aren't stupid, and will support a guy who wore blackface 35 years ago vs. people who are active members/supporters of the KKK today. Life is full of choices like these, and they ain't that tuff. Even Jesus probably muttered a few ad hominems he regretted, and that knocking over the Temple market bit, way out of control - probably has a police record for that. (BTW, when they picked up Jesus in Gethsemane, they had a Roman cohort, i.e. 600 men - obviously those early disciples posed more of a threat than we give them credit for, what with Peter lopping off one's ear an all - Christ probably should've resigned, let someone less controversial lead)
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 7:21am
Reading “Roots” is hilarious. He is flailing.
He was about to moonwalk at the press conference
it is his 2019 behavior that sinks him
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 8:27am
Jesus and the Blessed Virgin Mary having a stroll came upon a crowd of men , rocks in hand, preparing for the ever- popular stoning of a woman caught in adultery.
Intervening He said
A rock flew past Him.
Jesus :
" Mom!"
by Flavius on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 9:23am
See below
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 9:25am
But geez Flav, that's Christianity, we are not dealing with that here, what does it have to do with like Savonarola or Calvinism or burning witches?
by artappraiser on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 4:56pm
PP, Interesting that Terry Mattingly, of "On Religion" column fame, suggests here yesterday that you might not be going far enough by simply bringing up the abortion thing.
by artappraiser on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 10:56pm
Your 2nd URL was mistakenly a repeat of the 1st, but perhaps this is germane:
Terry Mattingly Retweeted
God Agrees To Spare Virginia If Just 10 Democrats Who Never Wore Blackface Can Be Found https://babylonbee.com/news/god-agrees-to-spare-virginia-if-10-democrats-who-never-wore-blackface-can-be-found … via
@TheBabylonBeeby PeraclesPlease on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 7:31am
Now I am confused because rmrd told me more than once that Independents are racist, in that they might vote for GOP sometimes.
by artappraiser on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 7:18pm
Nice try in diverting from the mess Northam created. Northam can just hide in his office and voters will magically show up to support Democrats in November.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 7:28pm
Support for Dr. Vanessa Tyson is growing.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vanessa-tyson-support_us_5c5dce4ce4b0eec79b2333b3
Edit to add:
A second woman accuses Fairfax of sexual assault
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/08/us/politics/tyson-fairfax-sexual-assault.html
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 7:15pm
Response to ocean-Kat above
Northam’s apology was pathetic. If you think the numbers bode well for him. You need a math lesson.
While many here don’t think blackface is a big deal and that the apology should settle the issue should think about the fact that black patients are wondering if they can trust their doctors. Blacks are wondering if their colleagues wore blackface.Virginia has become a racial laughingstock
Louis Farrakhan is doing a happy dance saying “I told you so”.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 7:25pm
Don't be ridiculous. Farrakhan won't say, "I told you so." First he'll blame it all on the Jews because “The Jews have control over those agencies of government. When you want something in this world, the Jew holds the door.” As he's often said, "the Satanic Jews control everything and mostly everybody” and, "Satanic Jews have infected the whole world with poison and deceit." It's just like how 9/11 was a false flag operation by the Jews, "Osama Bin Laden didn’t destroy the Twin Towers. That was a false-flag operation of the satanic Jews... there were many Israelis and Zionist Jews in key roles in the 9/11 attacks”
Then a significant number of black and black leaders will give him a pass because he runs
schoolsmadrassas for poor blacks and gives food to poor blacks. That zero tolerance that's for Northam just isn't part of the equation when it comes to Farrakhan.That wasn't 35 years ago and Farrakhan never apologized for any of it. So tell me again how Northam's apology wasn't good enough for blacks, many that support Farrakhan, to forgive a mistake made 35 years ago.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 10:31pm
Northam is reading “Roots” and “The Case for Reparations”. He is now going to focus on race.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/darrensands/virginia-gov-ralph-northam-survival-plan
Edit to add:
Would love to be with Trevor Noah and his writers or Dave Chappell right now.
.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 02/08/2019 - 9:32pm
(I found story via retweet by Maggie Haberman of NYTimes.)
by artappraiser on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 12:04am
Of course the ...............(s) (choose a victim.)
Blacks, Jews ,the Irish, Muslims, South Africans, the Chinese
suffered hideously during (choose the category )
Slavery, the Holocaust,the Potato Famine, Apartheid,the Japanese invasion.
And a victim in each of these categories most likely thinks that no one else had it worse. Or more likely doesn't think
about the others at all.
But if they did for the most part they wouldn't care.
Those sufferers care deeply about the catastrophe that happened to them individually. And care to varying extent about their fellow members. But far less about the suffering of anyone else.
So whatever they say here, rmr is never going to care (ie be offended himself ) by Farrakhan as will be Ocean-kat.
As Tom Lehrer noted
He got it right
by Flavius on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 2:53am
What you say may be true about some people or it even may be true about most people but it's not true about me.
As the caretaker of a ghost town there's an interesting thing that happens to me quite often. I know everything about this ghost town. Visitors ask me question after question and I know all the answers.....until they ask about a famous ghost town in California or New Mexico or even about a historical site two miles down the road. I always tell them what I'll say now. I don't know or care about history before I was born. It's not like I'm totally uninterested. I know the broad strokes of the history of the world. The basic story of what happened. That's all I care about. I don't have time or interest to learn more.
What I care about is what's happening now or has happened recently enough in the past to have a real effect on what's happening now. I care about now so I can think about what I can do to move us forward into a better future. I don't feel like I have any connection to any group so I don't feel any personal connection to the suffering of any group. And since none of it is about my tribe I hold evey one and every group to the same standard.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 3:45am
I'll take your word for it of course. If only it were true of everyone.
by Flavius on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 9:02am
Quite an inspiring ethos you have there. If I were forced to guess I would guess you were from the New World, American or maybe Canadian or Australian. You don't care about the old country, you're looking for a new one. The future is your concern, not the past. And the ghost towns are only interesting for lessons about what not to do. You like sizing up futile tribal situations of the entrenched wherever you go and are quick to take advantage of them. You pick up with tribes and drop them as quickly as a new set of clothes when they are no longer of use. Go west, young man. Always looking for a New Frontier, a Great Society. A Progressive, looking for progress. Because the ancestors were stinkers, forget genealogy (Mrs. Astor's list, The Mayflower, Debrett's Peerage, Daughters of the American Revolution or Confederacy as the case may be, they are all damned.)
by artappraiser on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 4:48pm
Thanks arta, on a site started by a person who wrote a history book I didn't expect to inspire. I expected to be attacked. Flavius's comment was a disappointment. But yes, I don't care about the historical abuses of the past like, for example Jefferson having sex with his 13 year old slave girl. The outrages of today are sufficient for me and really, I don't care about many of them. But you're here to get outraged about the millennia of sins for us all. Which side are you on, Hatfield or McCoy?
I really don't find anything interesting about the one ghost town I know about. I only took the job because I like living alone way out in the wilderness. I learned the history only to answer questions from visitors but I can't think of any lessons I learned from the history of the town. I guess I've just not that deep to see the message beyond the mere facts. I don't think I've ever taken advantage of any tribal group. I've never been able to figure out how to fit in with any group no matter how large or small. As for those groups you listed, or most any group, I've never really thought about them enough to care enough to damn them.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 5:26pm
dupe deleted
by artappraiser on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 4:49pm
Ha! Werner was always a bit of a tight-ass. Word was that he ordered his underlings to make sure the rockets on his Olds 98 hubcaps always lined up. (Hard to believe a rocket scientist would've missed the impossibility of that task, but stranger things have happened)
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 7:34am
Looks like Fairfax is gonna be toast.
http://dagblog.com/comment/264784#comment-264784
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 8:24am
To Flavius from above
Northam wore blackface. Black voters were unaware of this. They may have voted for his Democratic opponent if they had known.
He initially said that he was in the photo, but later said he was not. That was in 2019.
He said that he wore blackface portraying Michael Jackson. He was about to moonwalk before his wife stopped him. That was in 2019.
He is reading “Roots”;and “The Case for Reparations”. This is in 2019. Do you find his action insulting and condescending? Do you think that he is playing black voters for fools?
BTW, I’m really enjoying watching people who whine about the evils of tribalism argue that black voters should be tribal and support Democrats.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 9:34am
No, voters should be self-interested and vote for whoever helps them with the causes and issues they find important. I'd assume black education and incarceration and police abuse and economic parity and other issues are much more important than which Halloween costumes you wear, but who am I, just some white dumbfuck.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 10:42am
Northam already screwed up in respdingto the abortion bill. He is pandering now. The Republicans have the advantage in the legislature.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 11:05am
From the reporter who works the Virginia Politics beat at the Richmond Times Dispatch:
by artappraiser on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 5:41pm
And I now see the reason Moomaw is tweeting at the Times' Jonathan Martin. Because he's doing a ton on work reporting on this, there is a ton of good info. on this very long twitter thread of Martin's, articles and lots of developing bits of info. as to what's actually going on in VA. Just click anywhere on the tweet below and it will take you to the thread:
by artappraiser on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 5:51pm
# 2 most read story at Politico right now and contra the headline, I do not see it as spinning in any direction, it is just trying to lay out what a bevy of different political analysts and experts are thinking about:
GOP sees scandals as chance to halt bluing of Virginia
The meltdown of state Democratic leadership has Republicans eyeing gains in the statehouse and possibly U.S. House delegation.
By Maggie Severns and Anita Kumar, 02/09/2019 06:37 AM EST
i.e.
ETC.
by artappraiser on Sat, 02/09/2019 - 7:42pm
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/not-going-anywhere
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/virginians-split-...
by ocean-kat on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 12:17am
Both "must reads" for anyone following the story; thank you.
Rest of paragraph of your quote from Josh Marshall important too:
And here's the graph from the WaPo article:
by artappraiser on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 1:14am
The numbers for African Americans came as a total shock to me. Not just the result but the size of the spread
by ocean-kat on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 1:32am
Wut? I thought all African-Americans agreed on this.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 4:32am
"It takes a lot of planning to turn up a coincidence like this" - think about your total interests, not a particular hot button item or character. All of Reconstruction was about getting played, having those newly codified freedoms steadily chipped away until the law and Constitution were largely irrelevant. These guys, their descendants in spirit if not genetic, are still at it.
https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/suspicious-virginia-democrats-more...
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 4:30am
by artappraiser on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 6:18am
The polling of African-American voters is surprising. We’ll see if they turn up in November.
[Edited to change policing to polling]
Edit to add:
The sense of betrayal will manifest in some form
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/black-virginia-voters-feel-betrayed-left-in-no-win-scenario
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 1:25pm
Here is the great Ralph Northam on CBS with Gayle King
https://www.thedailybeast.com/virginia-gov-ralph-northam-draws-scorn-for-indentured-servants-remark?ref=home?ref=home
Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam, who is refusing to resign in the wake of revelations he wore blackface in medical school, drew scorn on social media Sunday for referring to the first Africans brought to his state as “indentured servants.”
His comment in an interview with CBS’s Gayle King brought a correction of sorts.
“Also known as slavery,” King pointed out.
While some of the 20 Africans who arrived in Jamestown in 1619 may have eventually been able to win their freedom, their journey to America was forced and historians consider it root of slavery in the United States.
Northam’s choice of words, while he was detailing the racial progress Virginia has made in the last 400 years, had viewers rolling their eyes.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 1:31pm
There is absolutely no one who is claiming Northam is great. That's a strawman and a lie. When you start out with such a ridiculous and stupid statement it's difficult to look beyond it to consider the rest of the post. It's indicative that you are not interested in honest dialog. This is the favorite tactic of republicans to constantly mislabel and misdefine democratic positions on every issue. This is the main problem I have with Ben Shapiro who starts every discussion with a lie about democrats then makes his arguments against the lie he created. It's not an honest debate on the issues.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 1:58pm
I was thinking of making the same point--who said he was great? I haven't seen a single tweet ever that lauded him as great--but then I chickened out. Because the thing about the straw man tactic is that it just often strikes me as sad. It looks to me like working oneself into a frenzy and frightening oneself by creating extra evil bogeymen rather than real, faulty human beings. It's the fear thing that Trump also uses, very much so. Fighting fear with fear - doesn't make sense to me. I guess some think it is the only way to rile passions to the state of political action, the "where's the outrage?!" technique.
I find the calm, rational choices of many of the Virginian respondents in the WaPo article very encouraging. They are thinking rationally, whether for or against resignation.
by artappraiser on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 4:20pm
I recently watched a Shapiro video where he claimed millennials were coddled in college and having trouble in the real world. His first line was, paraphrasing, 'You have all these millennials majoring in lesbian folk dance and they think with that degree they're going to get 6 figure salaries after college'
It's such nonsense. Nobody is getting a degree in lesbian folk dance and those majoring in the arts know how hard it will be to make money as an artist or a musician. Worse it's deliberately provocative, designed to attack our values toward LGBT. It may be that millennials aren't challenged as much as students were in the past and that might be a problem. But the framing is designed to avoid a rational fact based discussion and to provoke an emotional fight.
Sometimes I think I'll try to point out how rmrd's comments are designed to avoid or destroy calm rational discussion. I know it's likely futile, you've tried often without success. But maybe it's better than ignoring him and imo obviously better than getting into defending against his strawman arguments.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 5:36pm
A poster to remake?
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 5:45pm
Northam stays in place. That means that when it comes to Fairfax, we await investigations of years ago allegations. Will there be definitive evidence that Fairfax committed rape or will we just have accusations?
The Virginia Executive Committee is asking for Fairfax to get his due process which is his Constitutional right. At the end of the day because Northam remains, Fairfax may stay and be the Democratic version of Justin Fairfax.
http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/virginia-naacp-executive-committee-defends-lt-governor-fairfax-amid-sex-assault-allegations
It is hard to see how the Democratic Party in Virginia comes out looking good after this.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 6:20pm
FFS, he's just repeating what fucking *PBS* tells as basic Virginia history:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1narr3.html
And while these first indentured black slaves were transferred by force to the US, they were conquests of war, not racial targets (conquered by other black tribes and sold as slaves - a common enough occurrence):
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/8/26/1693478/-The-Economies-of-the...
Of course this was just the Colonies - elsewhere like Brazil or Caribbean, they were slaves. Massachusetts was the first to institute in the Colonies - Virginia about 20 years later.
So hey, maybe as OceanKat suggests, I should lose my position on the masthead for repeating offensive history - people should know when to keep their mouths shut when it offends the PC expectations of the day to tell what happened in former times.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 2:16pm
Hey, thanks for the PBS link! And don't I know it about trying to introduce historical accuracy into past discussions of slavery and Jefferson and the founders here a couple years back. This paragraph encapsulates what I was trying to get at. Pre-Enlightenment people definitely did not think at all like us, it was a whole different perception of the world:
And Enlightenment people were only gradually being "woke" from that still basically medieval world where witches and heretics were hunted and burned.
That they were being "woke" by reading and discovering ancient secular Latin and Greek texts, rather than just what the Christian texts told them, that was a miracle in itself, that they were challenging a rigid system was around for millennia. To even think in democratic terms for the landowning class alone was an incredible step in itself.
Yes, they went on to rationalize chattel slavery, a sinful decision, and there were enough abolitionists.around to challenge their thinking. That's where the evil is, their brains couldn't handle everything changed at once. Greeks and Romans had slaves, after all. And then the slave states developed an economy reliant on slavery, so all the more reason to rationalize it.
Actually I think a lot of abolitionists rationalized basically the same way, that the "heathen" Africans deserved being treated like human beings because they had shown they were capable of conversion.
Crusader mentality had not at all disappeared, it could be violent or it could be crusading missionaries. Christians were the superior men and the rest of humanity like a different species. If the slave trade had found it easier to get bodies from China or Arab lands instead of Africa, they would have. This is simplifying it but the tribe vs. tribe nature of many African lands made it easier for them to divide and conquer, there were willing accomplices there. No unified kingdom to fight.
by artappraiser on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 4:09pm
Othello was a Moor and a powerful one. An earlier Shakespeare work can probably be accepted as an indication of how Jews were treated -worse than Moors for sure- none of them got to marry their luscious Disdemona and get tricked by Iago- not worth his time.
Slavery of course, being an everyday matter in the "civilized world" , to a greater or lesser extent .
Tawney argued Jews , ironically , benefited economically from being forced to live outside the city gates (a medieval intramural activity ) because they could trade with all comers free of the dead hand of the Church's natural law promulgations. Unless they had their own luscious daughter with whatever consequences that entailed.
by Flavius on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 7:57pm
There is ongoing research into black history Things accepted as true are getting a second look. It is not clear how many of the 20 “indentured servants” served a short time and how many were slaves.
https://academic.oup.com/ahr/article-abstract/82/1/180/109223?redirectedFrom=fulltex
Cited In Wiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_Virginia
Edit to add:
The website to the PBS show “Africans in America” noted the lack of clarity of the status of the 1619 arrival
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 7:39pm
Gleeful about the success of the GOP op:
and gosh, why does that speaking for all Afro-Americans as a single unified tribe sound familiar?
by artappraiser on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 8:08pm
The argument made by many was for black voters in Virginia to be tribal and stick with Northam.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 8:45pm
Well whoever was arguing that (link?), it didn't work: 58% told the pollster he should not step down, 37% said he should step down, and 5% had no opinion. Like I said, you and Trump talk the same: that they all have the same opinion. Making for a generalization, a stereotype, that supports tribal judgment of people.
by artappraiser on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 10:16pm
Legislative leaders reach bipartisan deal with Northam to return $976 million to taxpayers
By Michael Martz @ Richmond Times-Dispatch, Feb. 8
by artappraiser on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 10:21pm
And no more gaffes on race, as he'll be scripted by a pro to use politically correct language from now on, no longer sounding like an average person with faults:
Northam says he can lead Virginia in racial reconciliation from the governor's office
By Patrick Wilson @ Richmond Times Dispatch, Feb. 9
by artappraiser on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 10:55pm
And a reminder that Fairfax has hired Kavanaugh's law firm and his accuser has hired Christine Blasey Ford's, and he has asked for an FBI investigation.
by artappraiser on Sun, 02/10/2019 - 11:02pm
Republicans are viewing the bill as a victory
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/amid-scandal-northam-surrenders-to-virginias-gop-on-tax-cuts/
This goes along with a statement in the Times-Dispatch article
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 02/11/2019 - 8:13am
Republicans weakened him by causing the politically correct to have an outrage fest against him. People with your inclinations are the intended accomplices. You will continue to be played like this through 2020. It's a favored technique of the Russian trolls as well.
by artappraiser on Mon, 02/11/2019 - 12:38pm
Your post about the tax refund seemed to suggest that it was a good thing. Are you now saying that it is a bad thing?
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 02/11/2019 - 1:02pm
Northam stays in office. Fairfax impeachment put on hold., Northam benefits from the Fairfax accusations. Fairfax benefits because Northam stays in place. Fairfax may be able to ride this out.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/virginia-lawmaker-backs-off-plan-to-seek-impeachment-of-lt-gov-justin-fairfax_us_5c61682ce4b0f9e1b17fb7de
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 02/11/2019 - 7:53am
The Furor in Virginia Has Quieted
Public opinion might help the state’s embattled Democratic leaders survive.
By ANDREW KRAGIE @ TheAtlantic.com, FEB 18, 2019
by artappraiser on Tue, 02/19/2019 - 7:43am
Northam ‘s redemption tour begins on Thursday. We will see the response.
The last sentence of the Atlantic article says it all
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 02/19/2019 - 8:36am
In news that you can’t make up, the First Lady of Virginia handed out cotton samples to black school children.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/virginia-first-lady-under-fire-for-handing-cotton-to-african-american-students-on-mansion-tour/2019/02/27/e03dedbe-3ac4-11e9-aaae-69364b2ed137_story.html?utm_term=.41b881b57833
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 02/28/2019 - 9:50am
by artappraiser on Tue, 04/23/2019 - 7:29pm