The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age
    David Seaton's picture

    Wikileaks: has anybody given a thought about Iraq itself?

    By David Seaton on Tue, 10/26/2010 - 3:20pm |
    In all the comments on Wikileak's Iraq revelations I've read, I haven't seen much of anything about their effect on Iraq and the Iraqis. 

     

    This seems strange to me, because from beginning to end the real victims of everything we've done are the Iraqis themselves and it isn't as if the revelations of death and torture are going to be news to them.

     

    What all the documents that Julian Assange has released are sure to do is lead to many more deaths and much more torture.

     

    Why?

     

    As I remember Iraqi society is clan and tribally based, where avenging the death of any member of the tribe is the business of all his relatives. So it appears to me that Wikileaks has  just made available much more detailed information about exactly who killed who, where and how... lots of dates, lots of names and this will probably lead to endless new vendettas, besides complicating even more the Iraqis effort to finally form a government after some six months of trying.

     


    Which leads me to my final question: will the curse of us and our concerns about us ever be lifted from the people of Iraq? Will we ever stop fucking these poor people over?

    Comments

    Wow.  You finally thought about Iraqi reaction to the Wikileaks?  Yes; plenty of us have thought about it, commented about it.  You might actually benefit from reading some diaries here, Dave.  I did one, Ramona did one (though hers was read more than mine).  I'll provide you one link AA posted about 'reaction'.  I'm sure if you googled three wods, you'd get plenty more hits, probably all over the map.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbppsACVlcE&feature=channel


    by we are stardust on Tue, 10/26/2010 - 3:27pm

    I've been thinking a lot about it from the beginning trying to see it from an Iraqi point of view and the video you show here is not the reaction that I mean. I am talking about people who are going to take action on the basis of this information. Vendetta, not "political responsibility", revenge killing and bombing. This is probably going to lead to more violence which will lead to more violence.... Vendetta.


    by David Seaton on Tue, 10/26/2010 - 3:40pm

    Ahh. We had been planning on leaving sooner but those darn wikileaks have re-destabilized Iraq.


    by Oxy Mora on Tue, 10/26/2010 - 4:03pm

    LOL! 

    Dave should read Ramona' s blog; lots of people report on what happened in Afghanistan (nothing) over those Wikileaked names; the fact that Assange deleted 300 names, but 'some' officials in the military claim they 'might be' indentifiable by position; and things like that.

    Come to think ot it, the Wikileaks have destabilized Maliki's position a bit; his theory is different than Daves: he thinks he was their intended target!  In related news, it may not matter: Maliki has been playing high-stakes Footsie with Iran and Syria, so it's all good.  For him.  And torture.  And death-squads.


    by we are stardust on Tue, 10/26/2010 - 4:56pm

    Maliki has been playing footsie with ALL of the regional power players.

    Beware of falling into the axis of evil doers vs our Sunni friends trap as it's pretty much nonsense when the totality of the situation is taken into account. The realities of the region continue to frustrate the moribund locked-in assumptions of the DC policy players because of their refusal to accept what is instead of what they continue to believe are achievable wishful thinking FP goals.

     

    Zvi Bar-el's clear-eyed analysis of the regional situation & context is superior to most of the twaddle propagated by those still clinging to the notion that the wogs will do our bidding against their own interests. In sum, the overarching interest of the regional players is stability and the cherished American formulae of sicing the neighbors on each other have proven to be a rolling disaster:

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/analysis-iran-s-unlikely-u...

     


    by lally on Wed, 10/27/2010 - 2:55pm

    Oy.  Thanks, lally.  I will read it again later and be back.  It's hard to differentiate between what the West knows, and puts out disinformation about, and what the West is simply deluded about.  Makes my temples throb.  I swear, if I had the soma they promised us in Brave New World, I could cheerfully let go of some of this.  ;~)

    My next book:  How I Learned to Love Teh Twaddle

    If one aim of Tehran and Saudi Arabia is to derail the tribunal's investigation into Hariri's assassination, then I am clearly out of my league here, and need to learn more.  Would the Kurds back al Maliki?  They seem to have been going about the business of developing their oil fields without the blessing of any central government. 

    It seems the Wikileaks have further discredited Maliki; wonder if his support will drop?


    by we are stardust on Wed, 10/27/2010 - 4:59pm

    Interesting that while your thoughts have been exclusively on the Iraqi people ... your first words on the subject were to offer unfounded speculations blaming the Mossad for trying to foment war with Iran.

    Pot ... meet kettle.

    IMO, this actually provides Iraqis with a political course of action vis-a-vis challenging Maliki's attempts to grab another term as PM and also providing evidence that they can use in courts that make it more difficult for the police to retaliate against those who disclose their treatment. Will it be successful? Who knows. But the reactions I'm seeing thus far are political not violent calls for revenge.

    And just FYI, the people in Iraq actually know they've been being tortured ... and they already have a pretty good idea who's been doing it. Any Vendetta certainly didn't need this to spur it on.


    by kgb999 on Wed, 10/27/2010 - 2:24pm

    The message is many of not most, were better off under Saddam. At least Saddam enforced inter-ethnic peace, and he protected Iraqi Christians better than the Pentagon.

    For those Sunni's who have not already fled the country, it is clear their future is nil.  Maliki and Moqtada al Sadr, a leading Iraqi Mullah and militia leader who now lives in Iran,  are getting support from Iran, in the form of arms and intelligence and agents.  Meanwhile they intend on repressing, expelling, or killing Sunni's who object to their Shite Islamic government, enforced by non-judicial arrests, torture and terror. Currently, Iraq is one of the most corrupt countries in the world, surpassed only by Afghanistan, Bhutan and Somalia.


    by NCD on Tue, 10/26/2010 - 7:04pm

    We have really done ourselves proud in Iraq.


    by David Seaton on Wed, 10/27/2010 - 6:33am