MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
By Perry Bacon, Jr. @ FiveThirtyEight.com, Sept. 11
We generally think of a person’s race or religion as being fixed — and that those parts of identity (being black, say, or evangelical Christian) drive political views. Most African-Americans vote Democratic. Most evangelical Christians vote Republican. But New York University political scientist Patrick Egan has written a new paper showing evidence that identity and politics operate in the opposite direction too — people shift the non-political parts of their identity, including ethnicity and religion, to align better with being a Democrat or a Republican [....]
Comments
We have always been tribal. Tribes have helped the United States make many advances. Tribes began the push for Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and TWomen’s Rights. Tribes helped each other advance. Black tribal members were joined by members of other ethnic tribes in working for Civil Rights. Black tribes had to be prodded by other tribes to reject homophobia. White tribal women had to be prodded by women from ethnic minority tribes to be included in the battle for Women’s Rights. Tribalism has been how civilizations grew and survived.
Tribalism has risks, but it has benefits as well. When Muslim were being threatened at entry points at airports. Other tribes provided support. When immigrant babies were kidnapped at the border, other tribes responded to their plight.
There are those who argue for a national creed. The usual result of this national fever is the rise of bigots, reactionaries, and racists. Our current President ran on Make America Great Again. MAGA, the nationalist creed, makes it easy to kidnap babies, gerrymander, and threaten media. Trump’s MAGA is the new national creed
We have always been tribal and it has saved minority groups. Tribes have shown that they can work together. During Vietnam, the national creed was “If you don’t love it, leave it. The creed has always been in the hands of the bigots.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 09/12/2018 - 10:35pm
What you don't seem to get when you talk this rant again and again here is how much it means you agree with Trump's view of the world, Again tribalism is the source of much of the "evil" in the world, it is the reasoning behind Jim Crow "separate but equal" not to mention the Holocaust and slavery.The things you say about this are incredibly stupid and I am tired of just letting them go unchallenged in the name of keeping the peace around here. Because they are ugly things you are saying, very ugly.
You really need to read more on topic because everything you say on it just sounds like Trump talking.
I'm really tired of it. No one else challenging you on it, giving you a Mulligan because they are afraid they will look intolerant. When they would never tolerate it out of a GOP politician, they'd be ridiculing it like crazy and writing blogs about how much they hate them.
I find it offensive that after many have challenged you more delicately many times, you just dig in your heels and spit out this tribal garbage ever more vehemently. It's wrong and offensive to boot.
by artappraiser on Wed, 09/12/2018 - 11:36pm
You really want Afro-Americans to start their own tribal state, no whites allowed, is that what you want? Because that's basically the end game of what you write on this topic, like you agree not only with white suprematists but with the "why don't you go back to Africa?" people. Separate but equal, no mingling, stay in tribes. By race yet! My god! Such offensive garbage! Sounds like some stupid German in 1930 saying the Jews need to stay separate for their own good.
by artappraiser on Wed, 09/12/2018 - 11:45pm
You don’t understand the origins of identity politics.
If so-called Identity politics magically disappeared. Trump would still be President because ethnic minorities would still be targeted as the cause for white people’s woes. Slavery, Jim Crow, etc operated without black identity politics as a spark.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 11:33am
I think everyone else challenges me on my view of identity politics. Where ya been?
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 11:40am
Because you have a racial view of identify politics and the audience here is not racist.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:28pm
I point out differences of opinion. You dismiss arguments like cultural appropriation I provide an opposing view.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:46pm
Jesus, having tribes doesn't equal "tribal" - "tribal" is pushing your own tribe in lieu of the common good. Merriam-Webster has failed us.
Civil Rights was non-tribal - it was about integration, building up the melting pot. "Back to Africa" was tribal - withdraw, set up walls.
Celebrating diversity is not "tribal" - it is acknowledging the pluribus that we want making up the unum.
It's a bizarre claim that "other tribes" came to the rescue of separated immigrant babies - first of all, we did a shitty job, as many are still separated. Second, I don't recall it as "tribes" reacting unless we use the Venn diagram of "all non-dumbfuck soulless heavy anti-immigration rightwing freaks" as a "tribe".
And yeah, maybe some of these tribes that we think still have to exist are just laziness, comfort zone, unwillingness to look past the current structures and create something more encompassing, more welcoming.
And I'm still waiting for when gay rights spills over into greater women's rights, just as I'm waiting for greater black civil rights to spill over into greater wonen's rights. But it doesn't happen - it's a myth, a pipedream. Maybe it's because "women" aren't a tribe, just a gender or a demographic statistic. Nothing specifically cohesive.A few issues here and there, but not really movement politics. John & Yoko's "Woman is the Nigger of the World" is still the status quo 50 years later and will be for some time if not forever.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 09/12/2018 - 11:58pm
I seem to recall someone posting something showing tribe members being untribal.
http://dagblog.com/reader-blogs/remembering-91101-e-pluribus-unum-so-don...
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 12:59am
While certain groups may have pushed for policies that affected their group they were only successful because enough people not part of that "tribe" were willing to look beyond whatever might be their personal tribe, empathize, and seek common cause with them.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 12:25am
I noted that in my post above
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 11:25am
And my point is they didn't. Individuals who were able to raise above their tribal affiliation helped them advance. What tribe joined with LBGT to fight for gay marriage? It certainly wasn't the black tribe. Most of the polling I've seen has less than a majority of blacks supporting it. And that despite the fact they at one time faced miscegenation laws. One would think blacks would be more likely to emphasize given that history but they are not. Historically no matter how much support increased blacks are always less supportive. While the white tribe now usually has a majority supporting marriage rights there's still a significant minority against it. Clearly none of this is tribal. It's individual blacks, whites and individuals from other "tribes" that emphasize with others out side their tribe that make these changes.
You seem to want to see this all through the lens of tribalism but that simply didn't happen.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 2:40pm
Blacks were more supportive of changing laws on immigration. They were also more supportive of Gay Rights than white Evangelicals.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 2:42pm
As a tribe
asor as individuals who rose above their tribal affiliation to support groups outside their tribe? The slim minority of black Christians that supported gay rights was a marginally larger minority of blacks than the slim minority of white Christians that supported. There are individuals within most tribes capable of raising above their tribal affiliation to support others but I don't see tribes uniting to support other tribes. I don't see evidence to support your tribalistic views.by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:54pm
In the Ocasio-Cortez race she received support from BLM and Democratic Socialists. I see BLM as an identity politics tribe. I’m guessing that you disagree.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:11pm
the definition being used is not based on race or ethnicity, unlike yours. Is is ideological tribes the initial article is talking about. Likewise virtual tribes. PAC's etc.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:27pm
They're an advocacy group for fair treatment of blacks. Why you'd call them "an identity politics tribe", I've no idea, but no, they're not a tribe - they represent a particular issue and have little bonding beyond it, plus not actually limited to people of color.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:28pm
Cortez is a democratic socialist who received support from her tribe. The Democratic Socialists supported the Democratic Socialist candidate. How shocking! The establishment DLC supported the establishment candidate. It must have been quite a stretch for them. How does that support your contention that outside tribes have worked to advance the causes of other tribes? I would guess she also considers herself a part of BLM.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:39pm
I think she understands the agenda of BLM, while not being a part of BLM. Her district is racially diverse so she learned how to listen.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 4:18pm
Re: I don't see evidence to support your tribalistic views.
that's because there basically isn't any in the grand trajectory of history of the human race. We slowly evolved ourselves towards globalization by intermingling and mixing and gaining intel on how not to just survive but thrive and by doing so grew our species to have dominance over all others on this planet.
Tribal, you wanna talk tribal, bet the Neanderthals were tribal, we stole some of their genetic material and let the rest of em die off...
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 4:09pm
You just made the tribal argument found in “Social Conquest of the Earth” by ethnobiologist E.O. Wilson
https://www.newsweek.com/biologist-eo-wilson-why-humans-ants-need-tribe-...
Running Neanderthals Out was tribal.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 4:30pm
Sure tribalism still exists but most if not all of the advances come from our ability to expand our personal definition of who is included in the tribe. From small groups of a few dozen to nation states, at times even a tribe that includes the whole human species. The civil rights era was successful because enough people expanded their definition of tribe to include all humans, black or white. It wasn't tribes that expanded their definition of who was included in the tribe. It was a sufficient number of individuals becoming less tribal that led to those advances. More tribalism leads to more in group out group behavior.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 4:40pm
I disagree. I put up a blog post that explains that identity politics was seen as a method that groups could use to work together.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 5:17pm
That's a different one - this blog's about how we can tear each other apart ;-)
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 5:18pm
It has been amusing for me. It was an otherwise boring day.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 5:27pm
oh really, all blacks, 100%? how tribal of them. Some of the news I read must have been faux. I should trust rmrd on what all blacks think and then start working against his tribe to make sure my tribe gets more.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:25pm
Thanks again for providing humor to help the day go by.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 4:07pm