Elizabeth Warren Falls for Trump’s Trap—and Promotes Insidious Ideas About Race and DNA

By artappraiser on Wed, 10/17/2018 - 10:29am |

Op-ed by Masha Gessen:

By releasing a genetic test to prove she has Native American ancestry, Elizabeth Warren is reinforcing one of the most insidious ways in which Americans talk about race: as though it were a measurable biological category. https://t.co/8oMlLu6Y1Y pic.twitter.com/CPxFfjfnd8
— The New Yorker (@NewYorker) October 17, 2018

URL:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/elizabeth-warren-falls-for-trumps-trap-and-promotes-insidious-ideas-about-race-and-dna?mbid=social_twitter

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ran across this on my twitter feed, is not related to Warren, but related to big topic, I think:

Had fascinating convo with an American yesterday. He said:

'Growing up, I always considered myself African-American. Then I was posted to Africa, Nigeria specifically. Soon realized skin colour was all I shared with the people I met there. Now know I'm an American. Period.'
— Remi Adekoya (@RemiAdekoya1) October 16, 2018

by artappraiser on Wed, 10/17/2018 - 11:39am

I wrote something similar yesterday. I'm 1/32 native "ancestry", which seems to be the pc way to refer to it. I'm not sure what tribe, I don't remember what person, i'm too distant and detached for me to claim anything bit a not so unusual curiosity. Nevertheless, while I wouldn't claim any significant connection to the discrimination and genocide of that people, *that woman* likely could. So to some extent I carry the memory of her - less an honor than a kind of responsibility. It felt like Warren did take this more seriously than I did.

by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 10/17/2018 - 12:21pm

Warren simply told her family history about an ancestor with Cherokee blood and prejudice that caused the couple to elope. It's likely true. She never claimed tribal status nor did she try to use minority preferences to obtain a job. Republicans twisted this in stupid ways to attempt to sway stupid people to vote against her. I don't know how to counter stupid. Perhaps she tried to counter it in a stupid way. I don't understand the stupid in American politics. How the stupid loses a candidate votes and how to talk to stupid people about the stupid to try to get some of those votes back. The whole episode is a non story to anyone intelligent.

The same thing theoretically could happen to me if I were a politician. My family story is a grandmother who was Jewish. Her husband died and she married a Catholic man. They couldn't agree on a religion for their son, my father, so he was raised with no religion. He married a Lutheran women and adopted her religion. I was raised Lutheran. I can't prove that. There's no evidence. I don't know anything about Judaism. I don't claim to be Jewish.

What would I do if stoking anti semitism was an accepted and effective political ploy? It was in the past though it seems we've mostly grown past that level of anti semitism. How would I respond if they started to call me Shylock?

The whole thing is stupid. If there weren't so many stupid people voting we wouldn't even be talking about it.

by ocean-kat on Wed, 10/17/2018 - 1:01pm

But stupid people do vote. So do smart people. Which is which ... ymmv.

Unfortunately, I don't think it was a smart political move for her to do the whole DNA thing and release it as though it proved something ... a bit of simple research beforehand would have provided enough evidence to know that the gambit wouldn't work with the real McCoy's (see what I did there?). It came across as purely political - to just about everyone, including her supporters who believe she's anything but a dyed-in-the-wool politician.

It also proved that she's a bit too quick to push back @trump to show how tough she is. Moving forward, she'll need to watch her tendency to counter-punch lest she become a tiresome version of her enemy.

by barefooted on Wed, 10/17/2018 - 2:44pm

"Just about everything you've read on the DNA test is wrong", Glenn Kessler, WaPo today: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/18/just-about-everything...

Kessler began WaPo's "pinocchio" system of fact-checking. The conclusion to the article:

We are not trying to defend Warren’s decision to release the test, just to set the record straight about what the test shows. The media bungled the interpretation of the results — and then Warren’s opponents used the uninformed reporting to undermine the test results even further. We fell into this trap as well, and were too quick to send out a tweet (now deleted) that made an inaccurate comparison. We should have not relied on media reporting before tweeting.

Warren’s Native American DNA, as identified in the test, may not be large, but it’s wrong to say it’s as little as 1/1024th or that it’s less than the average European American. Three Pinocchios all around — including to our tweet.

by AmericanDreamer on Thu, 10/18/2018 - 2:01pm

A Stanford University geneticist performed the test. Trump said he wanted to perform his own. The media piled on. Instead of confronting Trump some decided to attack Warren. Sad.

by rmrd0000 on Thu, 10/18/2018 - 2:55pm

Agree with Barefoot. Warren should have thought this one out, and skipped it.

Indian ancestry is a measurable "financial category" since casino per capitas arrived 20 or so years ago.

The payments are closely guarded secrets, but can amount to thousands of dollars per tribal member per month. The tribes determine membership not geneticists, and new members were swamping the casino owning tribes like Ft. MacDowell tribe when the first big city casinos started raking in the cash. New casinos for tribes are still opening.

As barefoot says, it won't help with Trump, and it apparently made Tribes mad because the ineligible (each tribe has rules) may say "my gene test said.....like Elizabeth Warren,...where's my per capita...."

by NCD on Thu, 10/18/2018 - 3:30pm

BINGO! You win the jackpot, sir! Put another chit in,try your luck again!

You even woke my lazy thinking on this, I was falling into the trap I am blaming others for living in p.c. urban land. And not remembering what it's like in like, Milwaukee now, where everyone goes to the Indians' casino for birthday dinners because they have a great buffet for like nothing (forgetting the money you left a the poker machine.) In this case, those in flyover country be just a bit more savvier than urban world about what being a part of many Native American tribes means these days. (I should have known better! Just the other week I was way out to Long Island to buy my cartons of cigs at the Poospatuck Tribe Reservation where they have their own nation of about 6 square blocks of cigarette vendors, a church and tribe meeting house smack dab in the middle of lower middle class burb of Shirley, New York.)

by artappraiser on Thu, 10/18/2018 - 4:28pm

Yes, that's what it often means these days. Before some clever lawyer won a law suit that allowed native American Indians the right to flout state and federal laws by claiming independent nation status the tribes were more welcoming to "Indians" with family stories about native ancestors. Now it's about sharing the wealth and many tribes want to restrict the rolls to the greatest degree possible.

by ocean-kat on Thu, 10/18/2018 - 4:30pm

It's not just white people with some native blood. My niece is 100% Native American, but her biological grandparents came from four different tribes, so she doesn't qualify for membership in any tribe.

by Michael Wolraich on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 12:11pm

I didn't know about the very small % of NA DNA many European Americans have but it makes sense if your family has a 300 year history in America. Warren's unforgivable and stupid assertion of being a Person Of Color for personal and professional gain should end her quest for political power which is a good thing. Another thing I learned is that some pure blood NA's don't qualify for membership in any tribe because of intermarriage between tribes and the new requirements for tribal membership. This is causing a problem in the Pueblo near where I live because the children of tribal members who marry outside the tribe can't inherit tribal property.

by Peter (not verified) on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 1:16am

What "professional gain" can you document? I've seen proof to the contrary.

by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 1:32am

There is no evidence Warren ever used her family history for personal or professional gain.That's another lie republicans used to try to win an election. In fact there is plenty of evidence that debunks that lie. I'm amazed that republicans constantly believe these lies with out any evidence. It may be why you expect us to believe you when you lie to us. Unfortunately for you the people here look for evidence.

Warren talked about her family history because she admired her ancestor. Just as Cruz and many other people talk about their family history because they admire their ancestors. Democrats don't attack republicans with lies about their ancestors. We don't lie about Cruz's father. But Trump did. He accused Cruz's father of being involved in the Kennedy assassination and his base ate up that lie. Trump's base is more prone to lying and to believing lies than the regular republicans. As a Trump supporter that helps to explain why you lie so often here and so often spread lies.

by ocean-kat on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 1:38am

Are you really claiming there is no documented proof that Goofy claimed NA heritage on her Yale job application and approved Yale advertising her as their first NA woman of color ? These acts were the most extreme opportunistic use of identity politics I have seen but I'm sure some people view it as excusable with the ends justify the means apologia.

by Peter (not verified) on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 3:21pm

I asked you to *show* the proof, not continue to toss around unsubstantiated and disproven rumors and FUD. Where's that Yale advertising you claim?

by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 4:35pm

I could find no information that Warren ever applied to Yale or ever worked there.

Warren taught at the following law schools:

Rutgers University: 1977-1978

University of Houston: 1978-1983

University of Texas (Austin): 1981-1987

University of Pennsylvania: 1987-1992, 1993-1995

Harvard University: 1992-1993, 1995-present

There is no information that Warren ever claimed NA heritage on any application. All the available evidence is that she didn't.

The Globe obtained a portion of Warren’s application to Rutgers, which asks if prospective students want to apply for admission under the school’s Program for Minority Group Students. Warren answered “no.”

For her employment documents at the University of Texas, Warren indicated that she was “white.”

The Herald has twice quoted Charles Fried, the head of the Harvard appointing committee that recommended Warren for her position in 1995, saying that the Democratic candidate’s heritage didn’t come up during the course of her hiring. “It simply played no role in the appointments process,” he said. “It was not mentioned and I didn’t mention it to the faculty.”

Brown said that Warren “checked the box claiming she was Native American” when she applied to Harvard and Penn, suggesting the Democratic candidate somehow gained an unfair advantage because of an iffy ethnic background. But there is no proof that she ever marked a form to tell the schools about her heritage, nor is there any public evidence that the universities knew about her lineage before hiring her.

You can make any claim you want but there is no evidence to back up that claim. Just as Trump can claim Cruz's father was involved in the Kennedy assassination without any evidence to back it up. Why you republican idiots believe these lies is beyond me. Note that O'Rouke isn't spreading this lie against Cruz in the Texas senate race. Democratic politicians just don't lie like republican politicians lie. Perhaps the reason is democrats look for evidence to back up the accusations and republicans eat any shit fed to them by Limbaugh and Hannity. Democratic politicians can't lie with impunity because the democratic base is highly educated, reads and looks for evidence.

by ocean-kat on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 4:44pm

Trump defrauded his own charity, was convicted of defrauding students at Trump University and paid millions in a court settlement, lied about adultery with porn stars and playmates, lied about paying them off, bragged about sexual assault, hired a band of big time grifters and liars tor his administration many of whom are now convicted felons, some in prison, attacks the press and journalists, calls women dogs, uses budget chicanery with 100% Republican votes to cut his own and GOP donors taxes while now McConnell says Social Security, Medicare are causing the deficit, attacks our allies as national security threats, attacks the Fed for trying to head off the mother of all money printing inflations with his Republican strategy of looting the Treasury with 77% explosion of deficits, spends 1/3 of his time golfing and the Trumpster mob only notices a single box Warren checked 30 years ago after she had already established a highly successful legal reputation and career.

by NCD on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 6:14pm

Yes, but here's the thing. Warren discussed her family history. It's mentioned in some of the biographic information about her. But I have never found a single piece of evidence that she ever checked a box on any document while applying for admission or for a job. I read a lot of news, from conservative to liberal sources, no one has offered a thread of evidence that she ever applied for or used programs for minorities. No one has ever found a document where she checked that box. Every document where she could have checked the box she checked no or claimed to be "white."

Here's the reality about Trump's base and peter. Republican politicians and far right pundits feed the base shit. Peter buries his face in the shit and gobbles it down. Then he comes to sites like this and vomits it up. No discernment, no analysis, no evidence. He just eats the shit and spreads it around.

by ocean-kat on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 6:26pm

Boston globe, September, 2018, changes ethnicity box from C to A, in a lawyer directory, 1989:

Globe, 2012 : US Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren said on Wednesday that she listed herself as a minority in directories of law professors (1989) in the hopes of networking with other “people like me” — meaning those with Native American roots.

by NCD on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 7:32pm

That's just biographic information on an unofficial list. I have never found a single piece of evidence that she ever checked a box on any document while applying for admission or for a job. no one has offered a thread of evidence that she ever applied for or used programs for minorities.

by ocean-kat on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 8:19pm

That's apparently all there is, an entry in a directory. She always applied for positions as 'Caucasian.'

by NCD on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 8:31pm

Thanks NCD for documenting how early Sneaky Liz was peddling her false narrative. I only found a woman of color reference in the '91-'92 Harvard, not Yale, women's law journal. The fact that she didn't check the NA box on a job application only shows she was a clever lawyer and I was depending too much on the fake news media for the facts in this story. She was even more manipulative than I thought using other people to telephone her claim of minority status into the circle of people who hired her.

by Peter (not verified) on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 12:18pm

Oh the humanity! I can't imagine anyone wanting to vote for her after knowing this! Lock her up!

by artappraiser on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 1:05pm

Ah, the famous Indian sleeper cell trick.
Put in play early 90's, then only 30 years later
they rule the West Wing - devious, demented,
delicious.

by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 3:40pm

Warren has done all of us a great favor with her devious scheme which has backfired and eliminated her chance to grab the power she seeks. She may also have relieved us all of the burden of identity politics now that most anyone can claim to be in a minority group.

by Peter (not verified) on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 4:48pm

She hasn't relieved us of anything. No one here agrees with you. Everyone here thinks you're an idiot. We all have different ways of dealing with your ignorance but no one thinks you have enough knowledge to offer a valuable insight. It's a total mystery why you post here. Arta suggests you're paid. I guess that's possible but I find it hard to believe anyone would pay someone to do what you do. It's not like you're changing anyone's mind or advancing your political agenda since it's obvious to the well read highly educated people here that you are ignorant. If it weren't for NCD's comment and link you wouldn't have even been able to substantiate your talking points in this thread. Even if you were able to change some one's mind this site is so small that it would have no larger repercussions. Why would you do that for no political gain? Why in the world would you come to a site to post comments to people who think you're an idiot? Could it be that you are desperately lonely without any human contact or friends? Are you a shut in, too old or physically disabled to get out of your house to meet people? Have all your friends died, have you simply out lived them? Are you neurotic or do you have some sort of mental illness? Why are you here? How can this be fun for you? What do you get out of it?

by ocean-kat on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 5:35pm

You left out the "BWA-HA-HA-HA" madman bit. "Simon sez..."

by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 5:34pm

Peter, sleep the sleep of the contented, the 1980s directory entry will not harm you.

As a disciple of Trump, you can rest assured that with a serial adulterer, a charity foundation thief, a convicted fraudster, a liar, a consort with felons, liars, despots and murderers, a tax cheat, a narcissist and a plutocrat tax cutting deficit buster as chief executive, you are as protected from his and the Republican schemes and their eventual consequences, as anyone will be, happy dreams.

by NCD on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 6:25pm

Thanks again for proving OK wrong again. I'm no one's disciple but Trump is doing a great job dismantling Obama's globalist agenda and MAGA. FYI Trump has never been convicted or even charged with any crime, civil suits aren't criminal cases. He hasn't been proven to even cheat on his taxes and the tax cuts are beginning to help our economy begin to roar, unlike the rest of the world. Guilt by association is a weak snowflake loser complaint as the witch-hunt fizzles.

by Peter (not verified) on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 10:58pm

You've been a Trump disciple from day one.

The Fed is raising rates because of Trump's money printing economic binge, 77% explosion of the deficit since before his tax cut scam on the middle class.

by NCD on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 12:07am

When Trump pays a lot of money to an accuser to prevent a criminal case it seems like a confession to me.

Not you?

by Flavius on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 12:13am

Flav, what accuser and what crime? It seems like you and others are attempting to create the appearance of a crime and frame Trump for something you wish were a crime. Paying someone to not disclose a possibly embarrassing non-crime is a legal financial transaction which you should know. Mueller had to use creative fuzzy logic to turn private funds into campaign funds that Stormy received to make that transaction appear to be a minor campaign finance violation, crime. I doubt that magic act would have held up to a court challenge but Cohen was cornered and made a plea deal.

by Peter (not verified) on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 11:56am

Yeah Flavius, you just don't understand how the legal system works. Someone, like Hillary, who has never been charged with a crime or pleaded guilty is clearly guilty and should be locked up. But someone, like Cohen, who has been charged with a crime and pleaded guilty is innocent.

by ocean-kat on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 12:40pm

It's been well-established that these under the table payoffs during a campaign count as an undeclared contribution, I.e. illegal. This was as true for John Edwards as it was for Trump.

by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 1:06pm

Wasn't there a love-child that verified the relationship in the Edward's scandal? Stormy was selling her accusation for profit without any evidence that it was true. The cheap payoff that she took for her non-disclosure leads me to think she was just a gold digger.

by Peter (not verified) on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 1:51pm

You know what, Peter? it doesn't matter - payoffs are payoffs, for true reasons or not - Trump hid payments during campaign season, so he's guilty of illegal campaign donations. Cohen has been testifying to this. That Mueller hasn't indicted a sitting President while under a bunch of threats to be fired comes as no surprise. But all of the evidence is piling up - Cohen is Mueller's bitch now. Just a matter of time before the next round of more serious indictments, plea bargains, and if needed, trials & convictions.

by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 1:57pm

Trump not convicted, at least 6 of his very close intimates yes - lawyer, campaign manager, national security advisor... google Rick Gates for giggles). Did you see how Mueller shut down Concord this week, closing the Russian loophole? Trump's had a lucky corrupt run, as did Capone. Don't live in the past, Peter - orange is the new black. Even MBS thought he could still get away with murder - but times they are a'changing. Even Jared couldn't rescue the Saudis. Enjoy the coming election. What will your excuses be post-election/January once Mueller's free to go more public? (No, he won't be issuing "a report" - that's a lout's game. Convictions and plea bargains.

by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 2:02am

You are wallowing in a dirty fantasy, PP. Only one of Trump's associates has been convicted of a crime by a jury trial and Manafort's crimes had nothing to do with Trump, his campaign or the Russians. It's ironic that Manafort has been flipped by Mueller and may testify against Podesta if he is tried for his foreign lobbying crimes. Do you believe that Crooked Hillary should be viewed as guilty by association in this case? The outrageous Saudi murder of this journalist is Trump's most challenging FP dilemma so far. The US/Saudi alliance is too important to allow a complete destruction of relations The only powers who would benefit would be Iran, Russia and China. but the Saudis must face some punishment even if the King or MBS didn't order the murder. I still think this could have been an attempt to undermine MBS's modernization agenda or a stupid attempt to help MBS by silencing a loud opposition voice.

by Peter (not verified) on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 1:33pm

Well wow, Peter - welcome to America's justice system - simple Google tells you "about 90% of cases end in a plea bargain, and of those going to trial, 90% end in a guilty verdict".
So are you going to pull out a new standard of cases "convicted of a crime by jury" to be valid? Presumably you're not this naïve and poorly read, are you? or you think I'm that stupid?
BTW - you have the wrong Podesta - truly, you are getting sloppy. Manafort's Ukraine activity "have nothing to do with Russia"? hitting bizarroland, indeed.
Re: regimes murdering journalists and dissidents, probably Russia is ahead, and China's atrocities in Xinjiang are much much worse in both numbers and kind, but like all these things, you're just lucky if someone notices one - bombing civilians in Yemen has hardly been pretty. But it highlights the danger of having a President who's captured by backroom deals with all these countries, including North Korea. Yet you keep supporting him for some reason. What happened to your 60's idealism and appreciation for *real* go-against-the-flow?

by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 1:52pm

Conflating general crime and punishment in the US with a political inquisition at the highest level of the DOJ is weak and a diversion. The Manafort case was opportunistically dragged into the witch-hunt for a PR display even though there was no connection to the Russian election meddling investigation mandate. You are trying again to use guilt by association in the Manafort/Ukraine scandal to infer a Russian connection. Manafort worked for and was paid by the Ukrainian leader not Putin. Marcy Wheeler at EW tried to sell the snake oil claim that Manafort was being paid by Putin while he worked for free for Trump, total rubbish. Both Podesta brothers are associates of the grifter Clintons and both may be responsible in their Ukraine lobbying scandal. I just watched an interview with the KSA FM who showed they were taking full responsibility for this tragedy and promising a full investigation wherever the chips may fall. Too many people have already passed judgment on this outrageous act with little clear information only rumor and speculation. I am certain we will never see this type of response from Iran, Russia or China who are the only powers who may benefit from this murder.There are too many people who believe that the KSA should be forced to sit on their hands while an Iran backed Hezbollah like extremist minority group takes over Yemen by force. There are many good reasons to dislike the KSA but even they have the right to intervene to keep thousands of Iranian rockets from being deployed on their southern border.

by Peter (not verified) on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 5:07pm

Beat egg whites in a copper bowl until stiff but not dry.

by moat on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 5:40pm

I believe that people who have not been charged with a crime and have not pleaded guilty to any crime are innocent. I believe that people who have been charged with a crime, can afford and have good legal representation, who then plead guilty to that crime are guilty.

by ocean-kat on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 2:10pm

wow dude, are you insane? Why would you post something that proves you are either stupid or a liar.

by ocean-kat on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 3:26am

I have a very specific reason for feeling like oceankat does, that most of your comments sound idiotic. You defend Trump and the Republican Congress as if they are one and the same and are following some kind of plan together. I see evidence every single day that they are not. I even also see evidence that his own administration is not doing what he says they are doing. Here's just one of today's examples:

President Trump says Republicans might announce another tax cut before the midterms. But Congress is out of session until the election and party lawmakers don’t seem to know what he’s talking about.https://t.co/8pXKqIAKy0
— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) October 21, 2018

If you were making a reasonable tax cuts et. al argument like this guy, I would take it seriously. But you fall for and then push ridiculous Trump demagoguery that is not reality, that is just plain made up stories and lies. You're clearly not interested in reality but in demagoguery, becoming the idiot mark of a con and then serving the con. That is why I ridicule a lot of the things you say, you just don't come off serious and you come off stupid. Look, the guy lies, lies every day, many times, says he's doing stuff he's not doing and vice versa, it's just that simple! Anybody falling for it like there is some kind of program instead of crazytown chaos just looks stupid.

by artappraiser on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 6:45pm

[Peter - f*** off. Your lectures are 100 times more boring, absurd, insulting &/or repetitive than anything you complain about. Next asinine post like this gets deleted in full. Current one edited down just so passersby can see how useless...- PP]

Art, your lectures are becoming more didactic, boring, arrogant and inaccurate.... I attack the spittle flecked BS spewing from the snowflake resistance ...Your continuing ego-stroking of someone hiding in the desert from a failed life waiting for a inheritance bailout ....

by Anonymous Peter (not verified) on Mon, 10/22/2018 - 11:53am

Moderators, Is this not a violation of the TOS?

by moat on Mon, 10/22/2018 - 12:34pm

With Trump and his supporters it's difficult to tell when they are lying or when they're just stupid.

by ocean-kat on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 3:24pm

Warren is not asking for anything from the tribes who are complaining. She was ridiculed for relating family history. The DNA test demonstrate some Native American ancestry. End of story. The tribes that are recognized by the federal government get to determine who are the official members of the tribe. The Cherokee exercised this right when they expelled the descendants of blacks who were enslaved by the tribe.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/25/cherokee-nations-expels-d_n_93...

The Cherokee admitted the descendants of enslaved blacks into the tribe after the Civil War. They expelled black descendants in 2007. This happened despite the fact that blacks were marched along with Cherokee in the Trail of Tears. The tribe decides the membership. Nothing Warren did changes that fact. The tribe is very capable of protecting its money.

by rmrd0000 on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 11:22am

Wikipedia: On August 30, 2017, the U.S. District Court ruled in favor of the Freedmen descendants and the U.S. Department of the Interior, granting the Freedmen descendants full rights to citizenship in the Cherokee Nation. The Cherokee Nation has accepted this decision, effectively ending the dispute.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Cherokee East NC has per capita payments, Cherokee West OK does not. All tribes have many safety net support programs - financial/medical/housing assistance programs. Tribes place great value on the right (within limits as noted above) to determine who is a native American member of their tribe, and Warren's gene test may have been seen as impinging on that. And Trump immediately blew it off anyway.

by NCD on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 11:55am

Thanks NCD

by rmrd0000 on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 12:01pm

Related: "GOP war room blasts endless stream of criticism at Democrats, with Warren its latest target," Michael Scherer, WaPo yesterday: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gop-war-room-blasts-endless-stre...

I found this sentence in the article to be rich:

The relentless stream of carefully curated — and sometimes misleading — political hits has been throwing Democrats off message for months while steadily stoking the daily fires of conservative outrage that power Trump’s political movement.

"Sometimes misleading." Uh, yeah. That's one way to put it.

by AmericanDreamer on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 12:06pm

I don't think Warren had much choice if she wants to run for president. It's not just Trump. Any opponent would exploit the fact that she falsely listed herself as Native American in the 90s, just as Scott Brown did in 2012. She has to put this controversy behind her. Better to take her lumps now than in 2018.

by Michael Wolraich on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 12:20pm

Haley addresses Indian ethnic question.

by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 1:06pm

Yes, and I'm still against her having done it now. Does it look like she's just getting ahead of an issue that's dogged her now that she's hypothetically running for president? Or does it look like she's knee-jerk responding to Trump's ongoing Pocahontas jab because she's now unofficially running and it's working against her?

It didn't work for Brown, and hasn't since when whispered - Trump's playing a new version of birtherism and she's agreed to pull his finger. Obama never did until the country finally gave a collective sigh of alright, already.

eta: This, from WaPo. Just because.

by barefooted on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 9:44pm

Obama had to produce his full form birth certificate because those on the Left are all too willing to give in. We are now criticizing Warren, just like the Right wants.

by rmrd0000 on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 9:15pm

Did he do it before he announced his candidacy? Did he do it when Trump was all-out? When, exactly, did he do it, rm?

by barefooted on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 9:34pm

The bottom line is that the Left looks at attacks from the Right and carries their water on many occasions.

Maxine Waters talked about civil disobedience. She gets criticized

Eric Holder said Democrats should be strong. He gets criticized

Trump openly talks about violence at his rallies

Heather Hyer died

The Proud Boys acted like thugs

All are treated as equal

by rmrd0000 on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 10:02pm

That's not how I see it. The democratic base questions our candidates. We criticize them. We hold them to a higher standard. We acknowledge they are only human and we let some things pass but they can't blatantly lie to us and expect us to accept it. Even if the lies help our candidate. That's why I don't think we'll ever have a Trump as candidate. There's been foolish talk of Kanye running, or Oprah, or Tom Hanks running for the democratic nomination for president of the US. It never goes far because the democratic base won't support it. I think, I hope. The democratic base is the most highly educated part of the democratic party. We think, we read, we evaluate, we critique. The democratic base is the opposite of the republican base. The republican base is the least educated part of the republican party. The part least likely to read. The part most likely to believe lies and engage in conspiracy theories.

by ocean-kat on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 10:45pm

Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited, on demagoguery, Hitler, intellectuals, and the masses:

(Mein Kampf): “While the healthy common folk instinctively close their ranks to form a community of the people, intellectuals run this way and that, like hens in a poultry yard. With them one cannot make history; they cannot be used as elements composing a community.” ....“All effective propaganda, must be confined to a few bare necessities and then must be expressed in a few stereotyped formulas.”

(Huxley) Intellectuals are the kind of people who demand evidence and are shocked by logical inconsistencies and fallacies. They regard over-simplification as the original sin of the mind and have no use for the slogans, the unqualified assertions and sweeping generalizations which are the propagandist’s stock in trade.

by NCD on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 12:05am

In 2008 I was a big Hillary supporter. When I first heard the rumor that Obama was born in Kenya I was excited. I hoped it was true and that it would end his primary run. I looked into it and when the facts came out it turned out it was a lie. Obama was born in Hawaii. I couldn't push a lie to help Hillary win. Hillary couldn't push it either even if she wanted to. Hillary's supporters wouldn't let her, even if it helped her win. The vast majority of Hillary's supporters wouldn't help her win the primary by spreading the lie that Obama was born in Kenya. But the republican base believed it and spread it. I'd bet that if peter was posting on line in 2008 he spread that lie. That's one fundamental difference between republicans and democrats. If democrats behaved like republicans all Hillary supporters would have pushed birtherism and that would likely have been enough to make Hillary the democratic nominee for president in 2008.

by ocean-kat on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 1:09am

A lot of the GOP base probably still believe it.

It's why despots hate intellectuals, why Republicans want to destroy the public schools and replace them with Betsy DeVos Christian Academies.

One thing Orwell (1984) didn't realize, you don't need a Ministry of Truth to methodically change history to fit current political propaganda, the Gop base - like you say - doesn't read, has no interest or curiosity to seek facts, they believe whatever their are told to believe, hate who they are told to hate, even if they were told the opposite yesterday.

by NCD on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 1:33am

These cases aren't analogous. Obama was obviously born in the country; the birther accusations were pure slander. But Elizabeth Warren really did represent herself as Native American at one point in time. Trump has blown it out of proportion, of course, but there is a kernel of accuracy to the story, and Warren has to deal with it.

I like her, a lot, and I hope she does put this behind her, but it's not the same as the birther fiction.

PS The fact that Brown's accusations didn't ultimately sink her candidacy doesn't mean that they didn't take a toll, and the road to the White House is much rougher than the path of a Democratic senatorial candidate in Massachusetts.

by Michael Wolraich on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 10:23pm

The real Native American story is the voter suppression that was sanctioned by the Supreme Court

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/19/opinion/sunday/north-dakota-addresses-voting-id.html

Jokes about Warren’s heritage should be met by pointing out the bigotry behind the disenfranchisement

by rmrd0000 on Fri, 10/19/2018 - 3:13pm

Noting Masha's trap, Mueller just seriously escalated the case against Russia, Roger Stone & Wikileaks, yet our big conversation here is what % native Elizabeth Warren is. It works.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr/russian-national-charged-interferin...

by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 3:14am

I would think the Trump trap thing should be self-evident to anyone smart here. What made me post the story, though is the Insidious Ideas About Race and DNA part. I don't feel enough people on the left realize how much they help feed the right's memes with that. To everyone's detriment. I'm gonna keep flogging that, it's something I care about deeply. Racial tribalism: not a good thing and also a very backward thing, as we've got a highly mixed race country coming up real soon. We really are all becoming Americans, it could be said that there is a genuine American "ethnicity" now. Time to start thinking futuristically-especially if you're thinking 2023-2027 president.

And here we go, despite all the sturm and drang we read on this website, looks like the "racial minorities" ( I would prefer the term mixed heritage, but no one's listening to me especially not the census people nor the pollsters) and the youngins, they're still not so very interested in turning up to vote this go round, while all the suburban "why pipple" are way excited:

White suburban Democrats are highly energizedhttps://t.co/Jzy8m0G5aF
— Noah Smith (@Noahpinion) October 20, 2018

Is that so no matter who wins, they don't have to give up their victim privileges, or what?

Very disheartening article he is pointing to there, by Nate Cohn @ NYTimes.com:

For a Change, Democrats Seem Set to Equal or Exceed Republicans in Turnout

Polls show enthusiasm surging in many mostly white suburban districts, but less so among young and nonwhite voters.

It's almost like it's preferred to have a devil in charge to rail against? Like to have him around to kick around, to paraphrase Nixon? Don't think the Dems can do much against "the man"? Better the devil you know and can see clearly?

Or if you don't vote, you can then continue to complain about what the old why pipple have done?

Or what?

by artappraiser on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 5:38am

Strange for me - I've lived in black almost-ghetto, Spanish barrios, Korea town, Persian landlord, worked in jobs with colleagues literally from 40 different countries. You meet someone w different skin, looks, and usually within 5 words you figger - oh, they're American.

Except the same thing is happening around the world - which ones are simply world citizens vs those still walled off in their own cultures. (and some even with stilted English or other languages are on the path)

It is converging. The King of Saudi Arabia - he was watching other-than the channels his aides wanted him toto watch - no doubt Iranian mullahs pick up more than you guess. This ain't 1979.

by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 6:25am

I've heard Trump claims to be a human being.

by Flavius on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 1:19pm

This is an interesting 15-tweet Twitter thread on the "where's Americanism going" topic, where Noah summarizes dry book about a recent poli-sci survey so we don't hafta read it:

1/Lately I've been reading a ton of books about immigration and diversity. The most recent one is "Americanism in the Twenty-First Century", by @debbiejsr.https://t.co/neqzyYVaYS

What did I learn?
— Noah Smith (@Noahpinion) October 20, 2018

by artappraiser on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 1:56pm

I don't feel enough people on the left realize how much they help feed the right's memes with that. To everyone's detriment. I'm gonna keep flogging that, it's something I care about deeply.

That, which I take out of context, could be an appropriate response to other important issues as well. At least I think so because it is the way I feel about some issues too. So, good on ya, keep on flogging.

I would think the Trump trap thing should be self-evident to anyone smart here. [Then later] Polls show enthusiasm surging ... ...

I bet every regular here would score above 100 on an IQ test. A while back I said that I never responded to polls and asked if anyone else here did. Only moat answered saying that he never did. I have been reading a fair bit on the power of data lately and am becoming convinced that, used correctly, data analysis, if there is enough accurate data, is a very powerful tool, more powerful in understanding cultural attitudes for instance, and I am also more sure than ever that polling of opinions and beliefs does not produce valid data. My recent reading or listening includes three books by Michael Lewis: "Moneyball", "The coming Storm", and "The Undoing Project". The one I just finished is "Everybody Lies" by Seth Stephens which is about using the internet, mostly google, to gather data. All are highly recommended. The last one has many conclusions I would argue about but much also that seems correct.

by A Guy Called LULU on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 1:10pm

My congrats on becoming another member of "the joy of reading Michael Lewis" club. He's just such a brilliant writer. I don't think I've ever seen anyone not recommend after reading him. He can make anything fascinating.

by artappraiser on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 1:41pm

Nate Silver has enough counterspin on Moneyball in his "Signal & Noise".

by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 1:51pm

Lewis' feud with former Salomon Brothers CEO John Gutfreund was especially fraught, because he worked for Gutfreund before betraying him. Lewis' Liar's Poker portrayed a crude, cutthroat culture of excess under Gutfreund at Salomon Brothers, where Lewis worked as a bond salesman. That and a bond trading scandal helped push Gutfreund out within two years of the book's publication.

Cue the Lewis-Gutfreund reunion, amid still more Wall Street carnage:

From Flav:Pity it truncated

"destroyed my career and made yours .Try the plover eggs,"

Or not mentioning his running "Wall St. For McGovern".

They weren't the hands of a soft Wall Street banker but of a boxer. I looked up. The boxer was smiling-though it was less a smile than a placeholder expression. And he was saying, very deliberately, "Your…fucking…book."

I smiled back, though it wasn't quite a smile.

"Your fucking book destroyed my career, and it made yours," he said.

I didn't think of it that way and said so, sort of.

"Why did you ask me to lunch?" he asked, though pleasantly. He was genuinely curious.

You can't really tell someone that you asked him to lunch to let him know that you don't think of him as evil. Nor can you tell him that you asked him to lunch because you thought that you could trace the biggest financial crisis in the history of the world back to a decision he had made...

...He watched me curiously as I scribbled down his words. "What's this for?" he asked.

I told him I thought it might be worth revisiting the world I'd described in Liar's Poker, now that it was finally dying. Maybe bring out a 20th-anniversary edition.

"That's nauseating," he said..

by Flavius on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 2:30pm

I haven't read liars Poker.

by A Guy Called LULU on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 9:41pm

Didn't mean to sound curt. I don't understand what your comment is saying.

by A Guy Called LULU on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 9:46pm

It's over. Except for the nauseous feeling.

by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 9:52pm

Long story. Liars' Poker was Lewis' first book. Well written,

A central character ,was John Gutfreund. CEO of Salomon Bros.when Lewis worked there,.Liars Poker seemed to show him in a poor light when Gutfreund elected to back down when a Solly Real Estate banker- in Real Estate- made an enormous bet and rather than himself risking an equal amount of money to force the RE banker to show his hand, Gutfreund gave up and the RE guy won. .

Gutfreund was a larger- than -life character. Particularly known to be willing to take the lead in particularly risky situations. Parenthetically in 1972 Gutfreund, prior becoming Salomon ceo , was the head of the "Wall St. for McGovern" organization.

Two years after the infamous Liars' Poker game . Gutfreund was forced to retire when a Solly US bond trader broke the rules.

Many years later, in 2008, essentially all world wide Investment Banks were accused of errors-and possibly crimes the "sub prime" fiasco. It created a situation in which they might have all had collapsed until Obama rescued them.Brilliantly.

Lewis implies the roots of that 2008 Bank misbehavior lay in the overly risky behavior described in Liars Poker

He invited Gutfreund to lunch after not having had met him in the years since "Liars Poker".

There Gutfreund typically said " Your funking book made your reputation and ruined mine. Try the plovers eggs." Later Lewis truncated Gutfreund's comment to remove "Try the plovers eggs" thus portraying him as not just aggressive but also a sore head.

Finally when Lewis tells Gutfreund that he, Lewis, might write about the "sup prime" collapse

Gutfreund said the idea made him nauseous.

by Flavius on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 12:05am

In the News

Russia plays weak hand in Palestine
Russia plays weak hand in Palestine

submitted by PeraclesPlease 10 months ago

The intra-Palestinian meeting in Moscow has precedent

Russia's hosted such meetings in the past, most recently Feb 2019

Russia has long lamented the US' "monopolization" of the peace process & tried to carve out a niche for itself: mediating among the disunited Palestinians/2
— Hanna Notte (@HannaNotte) February 29, 2024

Read the article at https://twitter.com/HannaNotte/status/1763116222256701787

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Mother Jones is Reaching out to Alternative Party Voters
Mother Jones is Reaching out to Alternative Party Voters

submitted by HSG 10 months ago

Here's what I told them: https://halginsberg.com/vote-for-jill-stein-again/

Read the article at https://halginsberg.com/vote-for-jill-stein-again/

2 comments

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Controversial Brazil law curbing Indigenous rights comes...
Controversial Brazil law curbing Indigenous rights comes into force

submitted by artappraiser 12 months ago

Controversial Brazil law curbing Indigenous rights comes into force https://t.co/pCoDg05irX
— Gareth Harris (@garethharr) December 28, 2023

Read the article at https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/28/brazil-law-indigenous-land-rights-claim-time-marker?CMP=share_btn_tw

1 comment

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Security Alert: U.S. Embassy Port-au-Prince, Haiti (...
Security Alert: U.S. Embassy Port-au-Prince, Haiti (December 25, 2023)

submitted by artappraiser 12 months ago

Location: U.S. Embassy and residential compounds

Events: Heavy gunfire is occuring around the area of the U.S. Embassy and residential compounds adjacent to the Trutier area of Tabarre. All Embassy personnel have been instructed to remain indoors and shelter-in-place until further notice. All others should avoid the area.

Actions to take:

Avoid the area;

Avoid demonstrations and any large gatherings of people;

Do not attempt to drive through roadblocks; and

If you encounter a roadblock, turn around and get to a safe area.

Read the article at https://ht.usembassy.gov/security-alert-u-s-embassy-port-au-prince-haiti-december-25-2023/

3 comments

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Pakistan Is Creating the World’s Next Refugee Crisis
Pakistan Is Creating the World’s Next Refugee Crisis

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

By The Editorial Board @ Bloomberg.com, December 8, 2023

A mass expulsion of Afghan migrants could destabilize the region and fuel radicalization. The West should pressure Islamabad to change course.

Read the article at https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-12-08/pakistan-s-expulsion-of-afghan-refugees-risks-another-crisis

6 comments

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Internet shut down in Chad
Internet shut down in Chad

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

All eyes on #Chad right now
Chad has two internet trunks coming into the country: One from the Red Sea via Sudan; the other from Cameroon. Not possible for the totality of the country's internet network to be shut unless done centrally. A lot of rumors swirling; few facts. https://t.co/N6bDJZ2ixO

Read the article at https://x.com/_hudsonc/status/1732891968709992511?s=20

2 comments

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[Economy] where Joe's success falls short
[Economy] where Joe's success falls short

submitted by PeraclesPlease 1 year ago

Read the article at

3 comments

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[CRIME News] 3 loss-prevention employees in Macy’s across...
[CRIME News] 3 loss-prevention employees in Macy’s across the street from Philadelphia City Hall stabbed

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

BREAKING: Three loss prevention employees in Macy’s across the street from Philadelphia City Hall stabbed, one of them has died from stab wounds, @PhillyPolice sources tell me. Police converged on the store as the three workers were rushed to Jefferson Hospital. pic.twitter.com/4U1eKycL4W

Read the article at https://x.com/KeeleyFox29/status/1731713272942940365?s=20

38 comments

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Former U.S. Ambassador Arrested, Charged With Working As...
Former U.S. Ambassador Arrested, Charged With Working As Secret Agent For Cuba

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

Former US Ambassador Arrested, Charged With Working As Secret Agent For Cuba https://t.co/LDwo4ZJI1K
— HuffPost (@HuffPost) December 4, 2023

Read the article at https://www.huffpost.com/entry/manuel-rocha-ambassador-arrested-cuba_n_656d1e2ae4b028b0f3d07478

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[War in Israel, Chapter II] UNRWA under scrutiny
[War in Israel, Chapter II] UNRWA under scrutiny

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

[Chapter I news is HERE, Oct. 7 til today]

You don’t get it.
It’s not about an UNRWA teacher who held an Israeli kid hostage in his house.
It’s all about how for 75 years you have destroyed the future of generations of Palestinians, including my family.
My cousins in Arab countries are still not citizens - not even the… https://t.co/nv6anubGhc
— George Deek (@GeorgeDeek) December 2, 2023

Note 'Community Notes' attached to UNWRA's statement.

Read the article at https://x.com/GeorgeDeek/status/1731020551328579863?s=20

58 comments

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Maduro, Under Pressure, Holds Vote to Annex Territory From...
Maduro, Under Pressure, Holds Vote to Annex Territory From a Neighbor

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

Imperialism for me but not for thee?

It's wild that Venezuela is now holding a vote on whether 2/3 of Guyana actually belongs to them! Analysts suggest that Modoru may want military action to pump up his sinking popularity.

Could we have a war in South America?!?

"The people who live in Essequibo are largely… pic.twitter.com/QvMEjkkgwy

Read the article at https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/03/world/americas/maduro-vote-essequibo-guyana.html

6 comments

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[Where is the GOP headed?] Divisions leave Florida’s House...
[Where is the GOP headed?] Divisions leave Florida’s House Republicans powerless

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

The lack of a cohesive delegation has allowed attention-seeking lawmakers to act on their own.

McCarthy: “You have [Rep. Matt] Gaetz, who belongs in jail…”

Gaetz: “Tough words from a guy who sucker punches people in the back. The only assault I committed was against Kevin’s fragile ego.”https://t.co/LctPuz6Pcf

Read the article at https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/29/divisions-leave-floridas-house-republicans-powerless-00129200

10 comments

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‘She got so mad at me’: book on the ‘Squad’ details AOC-...
‘She got so mad at me’: book on the ‘Squad’ details AOC-Pelosi clashes

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

By Martinn Pengelly in Washington DC for TheGuardian.com, Nov. 30

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tells Ryan Grim life in Congress ‘completely transformed’ after Democratic leader stepped down

Read the article at https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/nov/30/squad-book-aoc-nancy-pelosi?CMP=share_btn_tw

15 comments

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US health insurers Humana, Cigna in talks to merge -source
US health insurers Humana, Cigna in talks to merge -source

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

@ Reuters, Nov. 29

Read the article at https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/us-health-insurers-humana-cigna-talks-merge-wsj-2023-11-29/

3 comments

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Central Africa’s dinosaur regimes and the art of coup-...
Central Africa’s dinosaur regimes and the art of coup-proofing

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

"Both the AU and the intl community place more weight on whether elections are held than whether they are free and fair. Sanctions/expulsions occur when there is a coup but not necessarily when elections are rigged or if an “institutional coup” occurs." https://t.co/m9dNimJP0D
— Cameron Hudson (@_hudsonc) November 28, 2023

Read the article at https://africanarguments.org/2023/11/central-africas-dinosaur-regimes-and-the-art-of-coup-proofing/

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