MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
First off, just as we all should be innocent until proven guilty, so should be the Oakland police. Just because of past action of some of the Oakland police force, the officers involved in this incident should not be immediately characterized as thugs. Another Trope
It is exactly this kind of unwillingness to accept any kind of responsibility for unacceptable behavior by some of the protestors which undermines the force of accusations against the police. Another Trope
Surprise, surprise, not only did past actions of the Oakland Police characterize recent actions by the Oakland Police, but the lame excuse of 'unacceptable behavior by some of the protestors' did not result in exoneration for the cops! The IAD of the Oakland PD has reviewed the evidence, and the results include disciplinary action against 40 Oakland PD officers, including 15 suspensions, and two terminations of officers. These were the Occupy protests that, among other beatings, gassings, and assaults on citizens, Iraq War veteran Scott Olsen had his skull busted, and then was ignored by the police while laying barely conscious on the street. Perhaps in their demonstrations, OWS 'loosened the chains' just a little bit for the rest of us, whether we agree with them or not. "Those who do not move, do not notice their chains". Rosa Luxemburg
Comments
Dang it, one little slip of the finger and nice long response is wiped out. So here's the short reply:
first quote - they are possibly guilty and possibly innocent. Our justice system assumes they are innocent until proved to be guilty. In this case, many were proved to be guilty, and handed down their rightful punishment. The system works.
People such as you in your ideological fervor wanted to pull out the torches and pitchforks at the moment, throw away the rule of law, just because the accused wore police officer uniforms. They were police officers, they are guilty, no need to investigate.
Now lets look at the report:
I know you would like to believe every incident of reprimand to be directly related to excessive force, which would make your case they are all thugs, that is not the case. I've never claimed there are no thugs on the Oakland PD, or any police department payroll. Nor have I said they shouldn't pay the price for being thugs.
Now I assume since you linked the report, you take its findings as valid.
So:
From the actions taken on 10/25, 25 of the 34 cases have been closed. The findings: 15 sustained (means it was determined the act occurred and did violate a policy), 24 not sustained (means the investigation was unable to prove or disprove the allegation based on a preponderance of evidence, which is the standard of proof for administrative investigations.), 22 unfounded (means it was determined the act did not occur), and 61 exonerated (means the investigation determined the act occurred but was within policy).
From the 11/2 actions, the score was 2, 3, 4 and 5 respectively.
And from 1/28 action, the score was 26, 55, 6 and 36.
What can be drawn from this?
There are some thugs within the OPD. They need to be dealt with. And when appropriate, criminal charges need to be handed down.
Not all of the OPD are thugs. In fact, when we look at the stats, we could conclude that the majority are not, since there were, in each case, more exonerated than sustained.
Regarding the second quote - I still stand by my belief it is not acceptable to throw bottles and rocks. You may think this acceptable protest behavior, but I don't. That this makes the thugs in the police force rise to the occassion doesn't mean they shouldn't be held accountable, but it still exonerate the protesters in my book.
Yes, the guy with anger management issues who breaks the jaw of the asshole in the bar provoking him should be charged with physical assault. But the asshole has no one to blame but himself for provoking him for no justifiable reason. Throwing bottles and rocks serves no purpose, except maybe to release some anger about one's daddy not loving one enough so long ago.
by Elusive Trope on Sun, 10/14/2012 - 9:55pm
Part of my point, if it isn't clear that you and your ideological crowd with your pitchforks and torches would have also hanged the 102 exonerated by the investigation. And what would you have said to their families?
by Elusive Trope on Sun, 10/14/2012 - 9:58pm
No Trope, I am not an 'ideological crowd'. I have seen and dealt with crooked cops. I have seen them paid off in cash on the street, shaking down contractors in broad daylight.
I am a military veteran who swore an oath to defend the Constitution, one who believes the citizens of this country do not deserve to be abused, assaulted or shaken down by police. Cops who swear a solemn oath, who are trained, paid and empowered to protect citizens and uphold the law. For those that do, their families and the nation can be proud.
by NCD on Sun, 10/14/2012 - 10:39pm
The point is whether one wants to paint an entire department with the actions of some. Is one going to saying "there are some thugs in the OPD" or "the OPD is a bunch of thugs." There were some soldiers who urinated on the Koran. I don't judge all those who serve by those particular individuals' actions. I don't think you would have done that. But your over the top rhetoric is the same as a me saying since you served, you must be a koran urinator.
by Elusive Trope on Sun, 10/14/2012 - 10:45pm
Trope, complains about 'over the top rhetoric', then throws out a 'koran urinator' accusation in his comments!
You were wrong about the cops Trope, and your comment is vulgar trash, perhaps fitting and representative of you and how you think.
Good night.
by NCD on Sun, 10/14/2012 - 10:56pm
I call bullshit. You don't want to deal with your attempt to paint an entire police department as thugs because some were found to be thugs, something which I have never said was impossible or unlikely. You want to paint a group with a brush based on the actions of the few. When I bring up an example like the soldiers urinating on the Koran, you realize I am right and then say "i'm taking my ball and going home." boo hoo.
Yes there are some police officers who stepped over the line. And maybe if we investigate, we will find they were pumped up to be so by their superiors. But does that mean we should paint all of the OPD, the majority of the guys and gals in the trenches as brownshirts?
Face up to your ideological rants. You can't be reasonable and extreme at the same time.
by Elusive Trope on Sun, 10/14/2012 - 11:04pm
And i wasn't wrong about the cops. I said they were innocent until they proven guilty. Some were found guilty, more were found innocent. Not to mention that most of those found guilty had nothing to do with physical brutality. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
by Elusive Trope on Sun, 10/14/2012 - 11:07pm
I have also dealt with crooked cops. And I have dealt with cool cops. There have been many times I could have busted on petty offenses, but was let go, and I, although white, am not a clean cut all-american by any means. The crooked ones need to be dealt with, and dealt with harshly. But there are also good cops, who try to do their best, who deal with a war zone and domestic violence craziness, and all the while perform within the standards both you and I expect them to. Your reluctance to acknowledge these cops shows your ideological bent.
by Elusive Trope on Sun, 10/14/2012 - 10:52pm
Q, you don't want to jump in on this?
by Elusive Trope on Sun, 10/14/2012 - 11:14pm
Since I have been effectively called out on this one, I would hope there will be those who disagree with me to step up and put it on the line. There are those who would like to believe that somehow I am a good whipping dog because I reveal the weakness of the argument of the other side. Yet this is never shown. As with the Oakland police brutality accusation shows, my assertion that one needs to approach such events without the ideological prism in place is re-affirmed.
by Elusive Trope on Mon, 10/15/2012 - 12:55am
Not sure what you're asking.
Do I think you should be named in the blog-post itself? No, I don't. The blog is not done in fun, which means the debate is on an unfair footing, and so... no.
Do I agree with your perspective on Occupy or the Oakland police? No, I don't. You lost your rag over the the Occupiers saying certain words, but when a few dozen cops get officially reprimanded, even fired, you're not nearly as worried.
I think that's about all I'm saying on either of these two points, but hey - you two have a nice day.
by quinn esq on Mon, 10/15/2012 - 10:34am