MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Trump, citing no evidence, accuses Obama of ‘Nixon/Watergate’ plot to wiretap Trump Tower
By artappraiser on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 1:21pm |By Philip Rucker, Ellen Nakashima & Robert Costa @ Washington Post, March 4
President Trump used Twitter to accuse his predecessor of orchestrating a plot to tap the phones at his Trump Tower headquarters last fall in the run-up to the election.
Geez, his Twitter feed already made me wince when I glanced at it last night, and that was before this. It's really hard in this case to follow the "don't feed the troll" rule....
(The article suggests this one may originate with this Breitbart story published Friday.)
URL:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/03/04/trump-accuses-obama-of-nixonwatergate-plot-to-wire-tap-trump-tower/?utm_term=.2dc01eaa15c2&wpisrc=nl_wemost&wpmm=1
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Chris Cillizza @ Washington Post opines:
Donald Trump was a conspiracy-theory candidate. Now he’s a conspiracy-theory president. Donald Trump is who we thought he was. Read more »
by artappraiser on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 1:28pm
When they started talking about Russian Leaks, I still thought it meant prostitutes on Obama's Moscow bed. For the last few weeks much more kept trickling out, but now Trump's saying Obama opened up all the taps. So who's gonna stanch the flow? More golden showers going on than Mar-a-Go-Go's glitzy fountains or Ivanka's bridal register. And first they said Trump was flush with cash, then he flushed it down the toilet; then he was flush with pride over Assange leaks, but now he's flush red over arranged leaks. So many flushes and hot flashes in the news I'd say it's his time of month except it's been well over a month. Since you're in the White House, you're in all the papers, buddy - reminds me of Lassie and Rin-tin-tin on set break - all those briefs they give you seem to leak out despite every effort to hold it in. - never heard of "high, tight and out of sight"? Time to put on those big boy pants and make a splash. Hard to absorb everything you put out, but with an early detection system, may be doable. But keep it in continent - after all the speeches about a leaky border and the stains on America's lower edges, it'd be a shame if the problem was internal process, Oval Office "plumbing". Have you considered seeing a gastroenterologist? There's one in New York not far from you, Boredsteen, Bornstine, something like that. Imagine he can have you stitched up in no time - he's known for "positive results" even if a bit unconventional.
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 2:23pm
Comes to mind this thing he often does which just puts pinpoint focus on the narcissistic disorder: yesterday decrying witch hunts, today doing witch hunts. Whatever serves the ego, nothing else matters. If inconsistency was pointed out, of course he would say consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds because his mind is: the yugest in all the world....
by artappraiser on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 2:06pm
We cannot allow the press to ever normalize Trump. Many were calling Trump "Presidential" just for reading from a TelePrompTer for an hour. The man is insane. We all know members of his campaign were under surveillance.Trump is "just" finding this out.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 2:21pm
Great reminder point by another reporter over at WaPo:
by artappraiser on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 2:19pm
It is possible there was a wiretap Robert Reich gives details on FISA warrants:
by NCD on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 4:44pm
Lindsey Graham agrees, telling his constituents at a town hall today that, "I would be very worried if, in fact, the Obama administration was able to obtain a warrant lawfully about Trump campaign activity with foreign governments." Adding later, "if the former President of the United States was able to obtain a warrant lawfully to monitor Trump's campaign for violating the law, that would be the biggest scandal since Watergate."
Trump doesn't seem to understand that if his communications were indeed being that closely monitored he's already in much deeper trouble than even he can imagine.
by barefooted on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 5:43pm
The Clintonites are already spinning a false narrative about a nonexistent lawful warrant to cover for Obama's unlawful spying on Trump's campaign's legal communication which may be exactly like Watergate. It shouldn't be too hard to caricature together Obama's face with Nixon's.
by Peter (not verified) on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 7:46pm
Trumpkins are infinitely reprogrammable, it's 'not hard' to make them believe a pizza joint is the site of a Clintonite pedophile sex ring, Obama is a Kenyan usurper Muslim sleeper cell leader, and military training in Texas is a prelude to tyranny.
by NCD on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 8:13pm
Very good, NCD add to the distrasctions they may be needed. This looks more like a slow witted and peeved friend of a loser's political operation.
That special prosecuitor may be needed after all.
by Peter (not verified) on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 9:13pm
Hopefully that special counsel will gain access to Trump's taxes.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 9:44pm
I hope all of Trump's supporters feel like you. Let's get a special prosecutor and investigate it all. All the allegations against Trump and his campaign staff and Trump's allegations against Obama. Then we'll see what's the truth and what is the distraction.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 10:05pm
Talking to world leaders or their representatives is not a crime while spying on US presidental candidates surely is. Clintonites have much to worry about as the chants coming from the heartland may morph to 'Lock Her and Him Up"
by Peter (not verified) on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 10:38pm
Then let's get a special prosecutor as you suggested. Let's investigate the allegations from both sides. I feel just as confident that Obama did no wrong as you are confident he did. I'm as confident that at least some of Trump's campaign staff behaved illegally as you are confident they didn't. Let the investigations begin. We should be in agreement on this.
I don't care what the chants are. I don't listen to them. I read. I watched one Trump rally. That was enough for me to know the man.
by ocean-kat on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 10:57pm
Flynn lied to the FBI in an interview with FBI agents about his conversation with the Russian diplomat in December.
The FBI had a recording of the call.
Lying to the FBI is a crime.
For Republicans and Trump, lying is a standard procedure with the Trumpkins or the press.
Flynn thought he could lie to the FBI too.
You can read about it on Fox News.
by NCD on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 11:04pm
More diversion from a real fat juicy presidential spying crime. From what i can glean about the FBI qiestion it was, were sanctions 'discussed' and not 'did the subject come up'. It came up but was not discussed, he cut discussion off so no crime/lie was committed or he would have been charged.
Again it's no crime to talk to the Russians and it probably was no crime to talk to them about the sanctions either even if it would have ben unwise.
You need to stay focused on the present and near future where history is being made not fading history of little import.
by Peter (not verified) on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 11:35pm
Peter, it appears that you have read the FBI transcripts of the FBI interview, can you share them with us?
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 03/05/2017 - 12:14am
You're might be right about Flynn. Then why did he lie and why was he fired? There are too many Trump staffers lying and too many unanswered questions. My guess is there is something to hide.
If there was a wiretap on the Trump tower the request originated from the FBI and went to a FISA judge. The judge made a determination based on the evidence the FBI gathered to support the request. Of course you and Trump would refer to him as a so called FISA judge. Obama would not order an illegal wiretap nor would the FBI have agreed to perform it if he had. You think Comey just said, "Yes sir, I'll install that illegal wiretap right now." Or what, do you think Axelrod put on a phone company uniform and installed it himself just like in the movies?
Let the investigations begin. We'll see who is right.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 03/05/2017 - 1:54am
Hey Petey,
Comey wants the DOJ to publicly deny the wiretapping claim.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/05/us/politics/trump-seeks-inquiry-into-...
James Clapper, their former DNI, denied any wiretapping on Trump.
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/03/05/former-dni-james-clapper-i-c...
Trump is listening to voices in his head. He is certifiable.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 03/05/2017 - 5:29pm
And floridly so. He manifests "in plain view", so even judges can't help noticing.
by jollyroger on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 12:36pm
It's hard to believe that Trump supporters can breathe and walk at the same time. They try to divert attention from their ignorance by using terms like Red Queen, Clintonites. and snowflake. They repeatedly use these words while at the same time pleading to be taken seriously. In the Russian situation, we have Flynn lying about meeting with Russians. Beauregard Sessions lied under oath and now says he was confused. Trump's son-in-law met with the Russian ambassador. Trump refuses to release his taxes to remove doubt that he has financial ties to Russia. In the face of all these facts, Trump supporters are not concerned. When it comes to Trump, they are trusting and irrational. They are not going to respond to facts. Trump will always be the victim. Trump supporters exist in their world. They say outrageous things because at the core they know that they are defending the indefensible. They name-call because they cannot refer to facts. Like Trump that will say that "someone provided them with a set of information". Like Trump they will never provide documentation.
The Republicans having an attack of the vapors over so-called wiretaps were often big believers in supporting surveillance of ordinary citizens.
https://theintercept.com/2017/02/15/after-michael-flynns-resignation-sur...
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 03/04/2017 - 9:43pm
So Lindsey Graham is a "Clintonite"?
If the FISA judges are "Clintonites", you will need to break the news to Them.
Four of them were brought to the Federal level by Bush, Three by Reagan, and Three by Clinton. One of the Clinton appointees was put upon the FISA court by that bleeding heart liberal Rehnquist.
Or maybe you did not mean to reply to this reference to what a legal warrant requires.
by moat on Sun, 03/05/2017 - 12:40pm
Maybe meant "Clinton Lite"
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 03/05/2017 - 1:51pm
Trump is a serial liar. He lied about his inauguration crowd. He lied about the magnitude of his electoral college victory. He fired an Assistant Attorney General who wouldn't support an unconstitutional immigration executive order Since he is a proven liar, Trump has to give us proof of his allegations. Trump made his statement based on unsubstantiated claims in Conservative media. He can declassify documents that prove his allegation. Trump was stupid enough to intensify the investigation rather than divert attention to other issues.
Comey would not obey a request from Obama to monitor the Trump campaign. Trump's lie will be documented by the investigation. He flew off the Florida in a fit of rage. Bannon had to go to Florida to help calm Trump down. Trump is unraveling.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trum...
Edit to add:
A President cannot order a wiretap. Trump m through the WH attorney attempted to obtain information on the status of the investigation into his ties to Russia. Trump is the villain by interfering with an active investigation. Trump should be impeached.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/04/us/politics/trump-obama-tap-phones.ht...
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 03/05/2017 - 10:02am
Impeach Trump and Pence will be President. Probably nominate Sessions as VP.
Or Bannon. Or Peter.?
Sarah Palin ?
by Flavius on Sun, 03/05/2017 - 4:46pm
There's the conundrum. Trump is incompetent and quite possibly dangerous. He might get little accomplished due to his incompetence. Pence is competent and will get more done. But Pence won't do anything crazy and Trump might. For the good of the country we should get rid of Trump just in case he goes off the deep end and does something crazy. But Trump is better for democrats if he's just his regular lying incompetent vulgar polarizing self.
It's not like we'll get to decide if he gets impeached so I don't need to decide if I want it. Trump won't be impeached unless his behavior was, in reference to Russia's meddling in the election, or becomes so egregious that republicans both in the country and in the congress abandon him. That's not happening yet so impeachment isn't near to being on the table.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 03/05/2017 - 5:11pm
We have had wingnut Presidents, but they were mentally stable. Trump is mentally unfit.He accused President Obama of wiretapping. He is a delusional racist. That alone makes me want him gone.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 03/05/2017 - 5:21pm
Anything that could get enough Republicans to impeach Trump is likely to bring down Bannon too.
I am unclear what kind of power to influence events you are suggesting we have in this moment. We cannot demand that the truth be uncovered and also control the aftermath. I choose to get to the bottom of this thing. I don't expect to get a pony from the result.
by moat on Sun, 03/05/2017 - 5:30pm
Spinning your wheels and throwing up chaff won't do much good now that there is a real High Crime in high places to drive the news cycle.. Some republicans may dislike Trump but they despise the Kenyan Usurper who was bold or stupid enough to spy on a candidate to manipulate an election.
This is about constitution level abuse of power not pettifoggery over conversations or childish scheming about fantasies of impeachment.
by Peter (not verified) on Sun, 03/05/2017 - 8:12pm
I'll say one thing for you, PETE. You sure can crack a joke now and then ( which is NOT te same thing as having a sense of humor).
by CVille Dem on Sun, 03/05/2017 - 9:40pm
Petey knows that Trump has the same proof of wiretapping as he has of voter fraud and a yuge inaugural crowd. He shares Trump's delusions, so Petey is immune to rational thought. All he proves is the futility of trying to argue facts with a Trump supporter. Petey is sad.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 03/05/2017 - 9:59pm
Oh, you are a Birther.
I agree that it would take an astonishing amount of damning evidence for the GOP to dump Trump. I have no idea if it exists or not. Neither do you.
But in view of your position regarding Obama's citizenship, it is fair to observe that your complaint against investigating a sitting President is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
by moat on Mon, 03/06/2017 - 8:48am
There is nothing wrong about Obama being a Kenyan American but usurping the constitution on his way out of office is a very bad legacy.
The petty attempts at plausible deniability and non-denial denials coming from Obama's people along with the diversions from the peanut gallery will not bury this story.
by Peter (not verified) on Mon, 03/06/2017 - 9:18am
Petey, thanks for revealing what you are.
The Obama wiretapping slander has no basis in fact. A President cannot order a wiretap. Trump should know this.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 03/06/2017 - 9:33am
Usurp? Who surps?
Who specifically (which law enforcement or intelligence agency) "spied" on Trump, and by what authorization?
Our surveillance rules have pretty well defined classes of gathering different types of metadata and data.
How the NSA, FBI, CIA & others (including foreign governments to do what we can't legally do ourselves) creates quite a shell game that folks on the left have been complaining about for 15 years now.
But still, the Trump brainfart explosion ignores that the FISA court & other well-established rules govern this - as voiced by both Comey & Clapper - and it would simply not be enough for Obama or Comey or other to just say "go tap this guy". That went out with J. Edgar Hoover.
But really, it comes down to Trump being the president least experienced with governing in the history of our country. Try hiring a flower arranger to fix your car. Better, have a stock broker attempt brain surgery on you. [Better said, an amoral atavistic pig like Michael Milken who'd just as soon sell your cadaver off for organs as cure you. We knew we were in for a helluva ride - it's working out much as I expected, though frankly the amount of pushback and Trump's premature ejaculations, verbal incontinence and heightened dimbulb eruptions gives me more room for optimism than I had 2 months ago.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 03/06/2017 - 9:34am
The fear being displayed by the snowflakes over Trump's exposure of Obama's abuse of power is near palpable. It's almost as if Trump deftly dropped the trap-door from under them while they were too simple to realize they were building it for him. Months of work building a false narrative ending with a congressional investigation platform that will be useful now to investigate the real High Crime.
by Peter (not verified) on Mon, 03/06/2017 - 12:36pm
Petey boy
Trump exposed nothing. The only people who believe Trump are his brain-dead supporters.
Even his.cheerleaders on "Morning Joe" are running away from Trump.
http://theweek.com/speedreads/684151/morning-joes-mika-brzezinski-tearfu...
The man is unhinged.
I'm getting pleasure seeing Trump supporters embarrass themselves by continuing to support a deluded man. The more support they give, the less credible they become. Keep posting.
Edit to add:
Here's a link to how wingnut Mark Levin suckered Trump.
http://thedailybanter.com/2017/03/mark-levin-is-behind-insane-obama-wire...
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 03/06/2017 - 1:06pm
Enough of the "Petey boy" stuff please, rmrd.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 03/06/2017 - 1:09pm
The guy brings nothing to the table but troll stuff. He is allowed to persist.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 03/06/2017 - 1:57pm
Persist in calling him out on it. Just none of the name-calling.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 4:47am
Even the Republicans are beginning to ignore the eruptions. The Hill reports a lot of shrugs and yawns. And then there is this:
Maybe Trump doesn't know that the hotel he just occupied has room service.
by moat on Mon, 03/06/2017 - 8:45pm
Maybe Trump doesn't know that the hotel he just occupied has room service.
Good one, moat. Made me think of the old "Pogo"* comics quote reconfigured to something like we have meet the enemy and he is me.
*Fun = just looked it up and I see I remembered correctly: Set in the Okefenokee Swamp of the southeastern United States, One man's swamp is D.C. federal gummint, another man"s might be Mar a Lago (and vicey versa.)
by artappraiser on Mon, 03/06/2017 - 9:09pm
Yes, Walt Kelly would be able to get right back to work with this situation.
He would need to adjust for the Dada infusion.. Maybe Walt could borrow Zippy the Pinhead and his friend, Shelf Life for a few frames.
by moat on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 6:38pm
Robert Crumb? Shary Flenniken?
If Trump had a soul or heart, he might make a nice Zippy (oh yeah, shave the doo).
Still, looking back at the old great comix, i somehow have a feeling I wasn't picking up on all the subcurrents. They *seemed* innocent enough, but there was a sense of something welling up (due to Mr. Jones?)
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 7:08pm
Hmmn yes, Robert Crumb.
His maps would certainly chart the territory left untouched by Kelly.
Neither the Possum nor the Pinhead hang out in locker rooms.
by moat on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 8:09pm
p.s. I found David Letterman's interview on old Trumpy ass' current antics worth the read, on both the psychology and a common sense opinion on the current "duty" of comedians.
by artappraiser on Mon, 03/06/2017 - 9:13pm
They should have a show where different people come on to host, and Dave is the only guest. Just love to hear im talk.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 5:14am
There are quite a few people in DC who would like a quick and simple sweeping under the rug of this unfolding story but they won't get their way. Judicial Watch is filing FOIA requests for the FISA documents and the actual investigations should be done by the congress because this is abuse of power at the highest level of Obama's regime. All this advice Trump is getting is just diversion and pleas for him to screw up the investigation which he won't do.
The FISA warrented surveliance that has been reported on but not docunmented may not be the spying being exposed and it may not have a paper trail. Even the FISA backed snooping may be irregular because it was based on no evidence and discovered no evidence of wrongdoing by Trump's team. The whole cabal was cobbled together on a baseless campaign meme carried over after the election to undermine the new president.
by Peter (not verified) on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 12:15am
Yes, I saw that item on Breibart too. A yuge problem with that, though. FOIA exemption #7
Exemption 7: Information compiled for law enforcement purposes that:
In regards to the DOJ, the clause regarding Exclusions is probably more applicable.
A court with no paper trail? Is that a Zen koan?
by moat on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 7:04am
Malcolm Nance was on MSNBC this evening pointing out that Trump's allegation puts the Obama's at risk. We had a wingnut come armed to a pizza parlor looking for Hillary's child porn ring. The unstable deplorables probably believe Trump's slander. Trump put a bullseye on the Obamas.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 03/06/2017 - 11:31pm
just popped into my head upon reading your comment:
They were careless people, Tom and Daisy- they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.~ F. Scott Fitzgerald, "The Great Gatsby"
by artappraiser on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 2:17am
I'm walking back a bit on former comments as to there being no clear message coming from the White House. It now becoming clear that one strong message is: this is not my administration, this is still the Obama swamp, which I can't get rid of, because the Dems won't approve my (mostly non-existant) cabinet appointments,which is trying to stymie me at every turn, so I can't use them:
by artappraiser on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 3:10am
Continuing to rely on these propaganda and fake news sources will leave you confused and out of touch with the reality of this drama. Trump and his team were the parties victimized by this crime so others such as congress must lead any investigations, separation of power. The executive doesn't investigate the executive and congress has the power to demand any and all information from the IC or others in and recently out of government.
We've already seen Obama's mouthpieces sandbagging and lesser minions squaking out diversions to attempt and fail to, just make it go away. Too much dirty business happened at Barry's white house in those last few months to be ignored and their abuse of power is a High Crime.
I'm certain that Trump has had expert security teams and they probably have known about this spying from day one. They probably have a thorough analysis of the whole operation, warrented and rogue, connected to the white house.
Trump's timing of this news flash to his 60 million voters was calculated to drop a rotten egg on the Clintonites and their amateurish leaders at just the right time.
by Peter (not verified) on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 1:38pm
Bwahahahahaha!
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 1:39pm
Peter,
You sound like the president, which I guess brings new meaning, domestically at least, to parroting the Party line.
by Bruce Levine on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 1:48pm
I'm certain that Trump has had expert security teams and they probably have known about this spying from day one.
Since you're so certain, then what is the reason for him not blowing up about it until just now? His own security people didn't tell him about stuff going on because they knew what a wack job hothead he was?
by artappraiser on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 1:51pm
These are the same skilled investigators who couldn't. believe what they found about Obama's birth in Hawaii. Anybody who trusts anything that Trump says is gullible.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 2:00pm
McCain:
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/mccain-trump-wiretapping-235749
and other GOP senators basically saying Trump stepped on his own messaging with this whole thing:
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-wiretapping-republicans-congress-235740
by artappraiser on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 3:04pm
The question of Russian ties to the Trump WH keep coming up because the WH continues to lie. On the Sunday shows, WH spokesperson Sarah Hiuckabee Sanders said they Trump himself had never met with Russians. The lie was immediately refuted after review of an article in the WSJ noting that Trump met with the Russian ambassador just prior to a foreign policy speech in April 2016.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-kislyak-russia_us_58bf0...
The Trump WH needs to come clean.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 6:24pm