MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop
MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Comments
by artappraiser on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 12:40am
Arty... Interesting read here...
It"s a long read, but well worth the perspective it outlines.
1 Oct 2018 | The Guardian
How a disastrous change in perspective disempowered the left and let the right rise
By dismissing the masses as fools, progressives confirmed all the culture warriors’ claims
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~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 7:08am
The article points out the flaws of Liberals in how they portray Conservatives. It seems to me that given rejection of climate change, willingness to forgive equating Nazis with people supporting civil rights, ignoring the child abuse at the borders, and the rise of things like QAnon, shouldn’t we take a deeper look at the pathology on the Right rather than constantly berating the Left?
Edit to add:
The recurring theme is that Democrats could have done something to keep these voters from leaving. We saw a similar voter exodus during the Civil Rights era. Those voters never returned to the Democrats in significant numbers. Could what we see now be a backlash against Obama in the White House? We may get answers in the midterms.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 9:41am
Your addendum does not synch with your first paragraph. First paragraph is your description of things as they are now.
Second is about voters leaving the Dem party over 50 years ago and never returning. A considerable number of those voters are not available to either party because they are dead.
It's conservatives who refuse to recognize change, if you're not one you should be recognizing that if new and different people are voting similar it probably is for different reasons, and trying to figure out what those are because you believe things change. Rather than raging at a fading and dying demographic as if nothing has changed in over 50 years
This just struck me as one clue along those lines, FWIW:
For example, that makes me think of many young folks raised on the internet and social media, where it's no big deal for people to rant and call names, push conspiracies and dis others and play at tribal games. I think of them getting all het up by Obama the savior when very young and then finding he's not, and getting cynical, and it's all grown tiresome to them now and they are simply not shocked or outraged by the old geezer doofus Trump, he's just another part of society....
by artappraiser on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 3:44pm
I think Democrats thought Hillary would win so there was no urgency. I think things have changed now and the base is more energized. I think Independents will turn out as well. The point about the current Trump supporters is that many are motivated by racial anxiety and can’t be brought back into the Democratic fold. They are similar to the Dixiecrats who switched to the GOP years ago.
The breakdown after the midterms will give some suggestions if the Democratic base and Independents turn out and possibly how many original Trump supporters did actually vote for a Democrat.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 3:58pm
And Hillary voters were a majority. And the anti-Trump contingent is a majority. Until the gerrymandering problem is fixed so that national elections have more authentic results, one has to play to individual districts to win. One thing one has to do is one has to avoid aggravating the wrong tribalist groups nationally, because one may have to get some ot those over in another district far away. It's not fair, it's the way it is. To change the gerrymandering, you have to change the Supreme Court. To change the Supreme Court you have to change the Senate. I.E., to change the Senate, currently you have to pander to enough of the citizens of North Dakota, not make them afraid of you or angry at you. A bunch of enthused Democrats in Illinois is not going to effect much, sorry to break it to you.
by artappraiser on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 4:10pm
P.S. Truth be told I really don't get Dems reacting to these times and this era with excessive partisanship, It's like looking a gift horse in the mouth to stoke old liberal Dem memes when you have so many swings, Independents and current and former Republicans fed up and hating the Trump adminstration, including leaders and followers, including op-ed writers, think tankers, media people and political operatives. To advocate stoking tribal differences with all those people right now is just plain stupid. Getting enthused about old tyme Dem memes calling them racists or imrperialists or Wall Street scum right now, I see that as just plain stupid. Find some common ground on policy later, work on anti-Trump, step by step
by artappraiser on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 4:55pm
Look at rmrd. He used to make sense. Now he's become so consumed with black identity that he's as racist as the white supremacists. But I don't think the white supremacists or the black tribalists represent either whites or blacks. They're just fragments on the fringe.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 5:45pm
Now he's become so consumed with black identity that he's as racist as the white supremacists.
That's just unduly harsh, and it's not true.
by barefooted on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 8:18pm
Seconded.
by moat on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 8:45pm
Since he's always doing political talking points and advice for what Dems need to do, though, I think it's helpful for rmrd to know that's how his rhetoric reads to some. It would be different if he signaled he was just trying to figure things out. But he writes as if he's got the answer of what needs to be done and we just need to listen. If I were trying to do that, I would welcome if someone was honest about how it sounded to them. If you are trying to convince, turning people off with your rhetoric and debate is not what you want to be doing?
by artappraiser on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 9:06pm
I stand by my post but you raise another good point. I'm involved in opposition to the border patrol here. We do water drops, rescues of sick immigrants, protests at check points. It's the issue that affects us here and it's the issue that the activists organize. I'm not a leader so I don't choose the issues or actions. I'm just one of the workers or the crowd if need be. I'm part of it because I respect the leaders. If rmrd was a leader here I wouldn't add my support. All of us here probably support 95% of the policies he supports. But he couldn't get me to work with him to achieve those goals.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 10:00pm
It reads that way to some, but not to most.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 10/04/2018 - 1:56pm
Perhaps it is unduly harsh. How for he's gone down the road of tribalism is aa judgement call. But I think it's true that's he's walked a good distance down that road.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 9:48pm
Thanks, I merely try to point out things that I see as obvious and things that are also being said by other blacks and many Progressive whites.If you go to websites like the Root or Black America Web, you see similar views reflected. It is like they are in a bubble.
Here are titles on Amazon
One Person No Vote by Carol Anderson
White Rage by Carol Anderson
So You Want to Talk about Race by Ijeoma Olou
Between the World and Me by Ta-Nehisi Coates
The Burden African Americans and the Enduring Impact of Slavery by Rochelle Riley, et al
All the books challenge white supremacy.
Reading articles about the Kavanaugh appointment, white supremacy is mentioned front and center.
From NewsOne
https://newsone.com/3829048/kavanaugh-hearing-white-people-supremacy/
From HuffPost On White women voters and Kavanaugh
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-kavanaugh-blasey-ford-sexual-assault-midterms-white-women_us_5bb3d78fe4b0876eda993663
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White women have always been involved in white supremacy. And since the civil rights movement, white identity has become more challenged, and less a taken-for-granted standard for everything. The GOP has been successful in using this shift to their political advantage. Republican strategists have mobilized white resentment by depicting Democrats as the party of intellectual snobs and undeserving rabble and the GOP as the party of the virtuous middle
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Im not the outlier
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 10/04/2018 - 2:24pm
I think every one here is aware that a story about a white man attempting to rape a white women is all about black people. Silly that some think it's about sexism and misogyny. It's an error women have been making for centuries. Mistakenly thinking the issue was gender inequalities when it's all about black people all the time.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 10/04/2018 - 4:38pm
in your world who is going to enforce the rules that tribes on top cannot utilize the identity politics of the tribes on the bottom? This is actually what happened in Rwanda to very bad effect. It is actually amazing that it took white men in the U.S. so long to jump in and play the victim/identity politics card themselves. Fukuyama is basically saying that something like a Constitution that everyone agrees to helps. It's beyond me why you find it so offensive to have some ground rules so that things don't end up with violence and war.
Elsewhere Moat is pointing out that the fault in Fukuyama's theorizing is that doesn't get into suggesting mechanisms for grievance, not that his main point is incorrect.
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/04/2018 - 5:05pm
Arty... you've got it...
From the article I linked above...
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~OGD~
by oldenGoldenDecoy on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 7:44pm
I don't see it that way. it was the rise of Limbaugh and talk radio, then later Fox news that provoked liberals and spawned Stewart and other left wing comedians. They insulted us and distorted our views and policy. It was a miasma of conspiracy theories and lies and we didn't know how to fight back or bring them to their senses. There was so much stupid there and we laughed at it. It wasn't just laughter and comedians. People wrote books about it as we attempted to understand what was happening. Perhaps laughter wasn't the best response, but it was something to uplift our spirits as the darkness slowly overwhelmed us.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 10/03/2018 - 7:58pm
After reading all the pieces on this thread and thinking a while, I have come to the conclusion that conservatives themselves will eventually be very sorry if he gets confirmed. Because in their desperation to get any conservative confirmed under this Trumpian mess made of their party, they aren't paying attention to the legal profession of all political stripes loudly objecting to the appointment. They will avenge over time if it happens, in many and sundry ways.
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/04/2018 - 1:04pm
This a good interchange on the political effects if he gets confirmed:
by artappraiser on Thu, 10/04/2018 - 1:18pm