The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age
    synchronicity's picture

    Dear Hillary Voters, Will You Listen Now?


    As the recently released DNC emails show, this primary has been a fraud against the public.

    As I am just discussing with an organizer that is working to deal with election fraud how we might file a class action suit against the Democratic National Committee for committing fraud against the public, it occurred to me that maybe, just maybe 'some' Hilary voters might begin to listen...

    (Bernie Supporters who have donated to DNC during this primary please contact re lawsuit. [email protected].  You can also be a part of the class action suit if you have donated to Bernie Sanders campaign.)  

    Nicko House explains: and here is an update:

    As emails were leaked today showing that the DNC colluded with Hilary's campaign AND corporate media to promote Hilary Clinton as THE candidate from the start and continued to do so even after others entered the race... maybe now you'll believe Bernie supporters as they KNOW this primary has been rigged in SO MANY ways!

    EXPOSED: Leaked Emails Show DNC Colluded with Media to Push Clinton Nomination:



    Just in the past week a Harvard Study showed that corporate media gave Hilary and Trump the MOST coverage and look who we have as candidates...  do you really believe that was by accident.  Maybe you'll believe us now that corporate media was making efforts to diminish Bernie with little to no coverage even as he broke records on many fronts. 

    "Harvard Study Confirms Media Coverage of the Primaries Was Awful

    The perception of the Clinton vs. Sanders race created by the media’s earliest coverage generated an aura of inevitability for Hillary Clinton and encouraged a dismissive attitude toward Sanders despite his early mega-rallies on the West Coast and huge advantage with small-dollar donations.

    The Shorenstein Center’s study should vindicate supporters of Bernie Sanders and non-Trump Republican candidates alike, as it proves the media’s inherent bias in covering the billionaire real estate developer and the former Secretary of State for the purpose of driving ad revenue and clicks rather than for the purpose of informing the public."

    Here's US Uncut Politics review of Harvard's study on media and the primaries:

    Also in the past week two researchers Rodolfo Cortes Barragan, of Stanford andAlex Geijsel of  Netherlands Tilburg University's released their joint findings in their paper studying primary election fraud:


    Are we witnessing a dishonest election? Our first analysis showed that states wherein the voting outcomes are difficult to verify show far greater support for Secretary Clinton. Second, our examination of exit polling suggested large differences between the respondents that took the exit polls and the claimed voters in the final tally. Beyond these points, these irregular patterns of results did not exist in 2008. As such, as a whole, these data suggest that election fraud is occurring in the 2016 Democratic Party Presidential Primary election.


    This primary has been a fraud against the public.  Corporate Media has colluded with the Hillary campaign and DNC unlike anything I have seen since the build up to the Iraq War,  to act as propaganda and not report 'news'.  What has occurred is much like a lottery company giving you a chance to participate in a contest, while rigging that contest all the while. 

    If you still don't understand why a large number of voters in this country will NEVER rally behind Hilary Clinton and you still think Trump was chosen by the  people instead of billionaires and corporation owners...  I"m afraid you are lost... like being plugged into the delusion of the matrix... It is a shock and you may actually vomit if you get yourself unplugged.  And I guess it depends on who you are whether you prefer the illusion to reality.

    Today I thought maybe, just maybe instead of having to file a class action suit, maybe more of the public would wake up to the facts... stop buying the propaganda...  and it wouldn't even be necessary.

    If you are a Bernie supporter, now more than ever it is important that we let superdelegates know where WE stand.  Please sign one of the declarations below and send it out to  the superdelegates in your state.  Thank You!

    Registered Dems:

    Everyone Else:

    Some superdelegate info:

    And ONE MORE THING You Can Do Before Philly!

    Donate to Bernie's National Delegates/Alternates & Make Sure They ALL Get To The Convention!



    Yeah, pretty awful that the DNC on the day a darkhorse announced was plotting strategy against the GOP based around the presumed nominee who eventually won every single southern state except NC by huge 30-60% margins, including Texas and Florida, along with New York, California, Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina & Arizona by 12-16%, and New Jersey by nearly 30%.

    Here are the primaries Bernie won (ignoring miniscule Democrats abroad): New Hampshire (23%), Oklahoma (10%), Indiana (5%), Wisconsin (12%), Michigan (1 1/2%), Rhode Island (12%), Oregon (14%). Take a look at that list again. In only 3 of these did he get more than 200,000 votes; only one (Michigan) more than 500,000 votes.

    Compare this with Hillary taking primaries where she got 500K votes or more: Georgia, Mass, Texas, Virginia, Florida, NC, Virginia, Ohio, New York, Maryland, Pennsylvania, California, New Jersey. 13 states. In California she got a whopping 2.2 million, a half million (12%) over her opponent.

    Let's try that again - Bernie's only huge success was a state of 250K that he won by 23% (57,000 votes) and Wisconsin with 1.1 million voters by 12% (136,000), while Texas was just one of Hillary's 20 or so blowouts: 1.4 million voters by a 32% (460,000 vote) margin. Florida with 1.7 million voters by 32% (540,000 votes). New Jersey by 27% (235,000 votes).

    Bernie won Indiana by 30,000 votes; Michigan by 17,000 votes; Oklahoma 35,000, Oregon by 90,000 votes, Rhode Island by 14,000.

    Hillary won every southern state by over 100,000 votes, New York by 300,000, Pennsylvania by 200,000.

    It's over - your candidate got thrashed, and the DNC was right to presume he would be. Their job is foremost to get a Democrat in the White House along with Democrats in Congress, not to please independents and the progressive wing of the party, even though they did quite a bit to do that in expanding the debate schedule.

    Say bye-bye - it's not that hard.

    I think I'll just ignore your entire post as it is based on incorrect information.

    I am not going to even get started on Election Fraud, Voter Suppression and the role of the corporate media in this primary.  You have no ground to stand on in my vew.

    It's based on election results as counted, not wacko projections of stolen ballots and black helicopters hovering overhead. Hillary won Georgia by 300,000 votes. Even if there were fraud, she won by at least 250,000 votes - more than the sum of all Bernie's primary margins stacked together. Just 1 state out of many. She won by roughly 3.8 million votes. You're projecting a fraud that would have looked like our invasion of Grenada. Did. Not. Happen.

    As for "corporate media", they've been there since Hearst and Pulitzer pushed us into war with Spain in 1898. Deal with it. Unless you think we're ready to scrap the 1st Amendment. <larf/>

    PS - the idiotic "joint findings" didn't bother to note that the "no paper trail" coincided rather largely with "southern states" where it was obvious Hillary had much bigger support. The single state with paper trail was Alabama, which went for her by a 58% margin - 78% to 19%, which might tell you it doesn't matter. Even if she had only won by 20-50% instead of 30-60%, it would have been a huge rout.

    So you think it was a draw?

    And apparently there are Bernie supporters in France:

    PS - she stopped spending money, which is how Bernie won Indiana

    Nate SilverVerified account@NateSilver538

    She did this while saving $77m and never running a negative ad against him, BTW.

    Yep, she'd already pivoted to the general elections a month ago, and Bernie's still all "come on, I can take you"...

    The southern states will go red.  That's what they always do.  So her wins in those states are not really wins, because the whole shebang is going to whichever crazy Republican they have at the end of their convention.

    Fraud did happen. The exit polls in Alabama showed a variation of 14- 15.7%, when the allowable variation is less than 2%. That indicates serious fraud. Georgia's variation was a little less, but still indicates fraud. This was true in state after state and only indicated fraud on the Democratic side, not on the Republican side.

    And the press was not always so corporate as it is today. Policy changes under both Reagan and Bill Clinton allowed the media to quit giving time to both sides of an issue and to allow corporate to buy up and consolidate media. It has been downhill for the press ever since. Corporate media have laid off real journalists and hired gullible people who will acquiesce to telling whatever they want told.

    Nonsense. Exit polls that Hillary Clinton clobbered Sanders.Sanders appeal was to white voters. Black voters overwhelmingly supported Hillary and gave her the victory in Alabama.Neither Sanders or his supporters can acknowledge that Sanders fantasy programs did not appeal to pragmatic black voters.As I noted before, Sanders could not create a multi-ethnic coalition. Like Trump, Sanders appeals to a subset of white voters. Neither man attracted a broad spectrum of voters.

    She won Alabama by what, 65%? give Bernie 15% and she still wins by 30% - A BIGGER MARGIN THAN BERNIE WON ANY PRIMARY. what happened to those comebacks in Ohio, New York, California? Does Uncle Bernie need another chance or it's fraud?

    I think I'll just ignore your entire post as it is based on incorrect information

    Yeah, right.  I am sorry that ignoring what you can't accept is your choice. Your very nonspecific "information" about widespread fraud (involving MILLIONS of votes) is not credible.  

    I don't blame the DNC for favoring Hillary -- she is a Democrat, for one; and most importantly, she unlike Bernie, has been vetted and can beat Trump.  That doesn't mean that they committed fraud.  The rules were in place long before he announced, and the debate schedule didn't favor one over the other.  Fraud?

    More like sore loser.

    HRC a democrat???NO. A right wing war hawk who says many things and does what her and her corporate, military, foreign dictator regime bedfellows collude ...YES. There's TONS of evidence that election frauds happened in NY, Nevada, Arizona, Kentucky, CA, Puerto Rico. Exit polls canceled, VOTERS mysteriously purged from register rolls, misplaced ballots, voting machines not working, locations and hours slashed.

    Media culpability in ignoring massive crowds and landslide wins for Sanders while  holding him to an obscene double standard in discussing how his YUGE popularity is harming poor defenseless HC, who still drips blood from her support for coup in Honduras, Drones killing children in Syria, millions of civilians massacred in Iraq, a false flag terrorist attack on a nation that had NOTHING to do with 911 and whose leader was never brought to trial, what CIVILIZED nations do, but assassinated! TONS of data on her arms deals with dictatorial regimes and funneling into Clinton Foundation as SOS, which is money laundering. Tons of data on her stopping sweat shop labor pay increases to .62 an hour for WOMEN in Haiti. 

    Sore loser???NO, outraged that  the model of freedom and democracy is cannibalizing itself on the world stage for ALL to see, impaling itself on its own imperical double edged sword, as the titanic nation implodes under the obesity of its own moral fraud and decaying health, if in fact it's foundation could even be said to be healthy or moral, considering it's foundation was built on theft, violence, and  white supremacy..


    Sore losers!!! No, sickened human beings who  WOKE THE FK UP and see the dark ugliness of how the DNC AND GOP have turned into human hybrids with lobotomies and heartless abandon in caring for our earth, a pimped resource bought and sold to the bidders who care ONLY about self gorging off the wage slaves they try and hold down.


    BERNIE IS the antidote for the poison that has become accepted by way too many, as normal!  Sore losers? NO, real patriots who restore MEANING to the word.

    Wow!   Maybe you should start a movement.  

    If it doesn't go well, there are genres of books that employ your writing style. I won't mention them because I don't want my keyboard fingers to be ripped, bloody and dangling with sinew from my hand as my bulging eyes and my heaving breasts take in the carnage that is everywhere -- for a ToS infraction.

    Bernie lost by almost 4 million votes.

    Counselling *is* available. Not needed in every case, but sometimes it helps that process of letting go, along with overcoming grief.

    Are you sure you're talking about the United States of America?  Yes, there is much to complain about, much to be done and undone, but this isn't the country you describe.  If it were, we would all be packing up, joining the other refugees fighting to get out of here.  We're not.  Instead, we're working to fix the mess we're in while celebrating the reasons for wanting to fix it. 

    We've had enough of anger and distrust, of tearing down instead of building up.  Hillary is not nearly as bad as you paint her and Bernie is not the savior you've apparently been waiting for.  That's the reality.  They're human beings trying in their own ways to build a case for positive change.  When Bernie swings over to working with the Democrats to stop Trump and the Republicans, will he be the enemy, too?  Then what?

    BTW, you want to restore the meaning of the word "patriot"?  Then stop misusing it.  Claiming you're the real patriot doesn't make it so.  Using it as an insult is an insult to the word itself.

    I find it interesting that Hillary can be, at once, a Republican and a left-wing whacko. Sounds very similar to the crap President Obama has been subjected to.

    Yeah, sore loser. If Bernie lost, it MUST be fraud because we're right, and all the people who voted for her are wrong. Never mind that the majority of his wins were in caucuses which are about the most un-democratic form of voting possible, and open primaries where people who are not even democrats get to decide who OUR candidate is. It's nuts.

    Bernie, a double standard? Hell yeah. He was thrown soft balls, while Hillary had to answer for all the ills of the world for the last 25 years.

    I will be sooooooo glad when this election is over and the Bernie people start their own party and realize they can't even come up with a platform that suits them, because they don't know the meaning of the word compromise.

    "I find it interesting that Hillary can be, at once, a Republican and a left-wing whacko." - women are better at multitasking

    Hahahahaha! That's true. I hadn't looked at it like that!

    Just going to post this here...

    "If Corporations & Billionaires took over our goverment (getting a huge return on their investments in our politicians), controlled our media, corrupted our elections and chose our candidates 'for us',

    What would it look like?"

    (Please stop pretending negative/neutral media coverage doesn't help candidates.. name recognition being key)

    And as I can see most of the following comments are repeating ignorance that we've been witnessing all along... I'll just stop commenting here and let my matrix comment within the post stand...

    The fear of a Sanders Presidency is that there will be no discussion. Only Bernie's position is acceptable. The ultimate white privilege stances.Minorities will need to undergo re-education. Thankfully, there will not be a Sanders Presidency. Hopefully, Sanders will get shutdown when, he, the loser, tries to dictate to the Democratic Party.

    As time has gone on, I have grown to strongly dislike Grandpa. Sanders is an old white guy leading a movement that we shunt the votes of minority voters to the side. Republicans use gerrymandering to suppress votes using the myth of voter fraud. Sanders will let his supporters use the myth of rigged elections to suppress minority voters. The idea that black votes don't count is common to both the Trump and Sanders campaigns. It is not millionaires and billionaires directly negating black votes, it is arrogant white males. 

    I am probably not as strongly pro-Sanders as you but I might be as much, or more, against Hillary as you. Sanders made a strong speech tonight. It was a speech that had important ideas and would not have had the ring of truth coming from Hillary. It will be interesting to see how it is received and how his strong candidacy plays out going forward and into the convention. Hang tough, synch. 

    The speech was a waste of time that took 23 minutes out of people's lives that they will never get back.

    Sanders is going to run for President forever.

    Yeah, we've had old bald white guys forever, but we'd forgotten the guy in NY 2000 walking across the stage pointing his finger, but yep, there he is on national TV.

    So instead of politely finally acknowledging the first female nominee in, like, ever, we get a repeat of his stump speech yet another time.

    I'm kinda old school southern trained in that I open doors for people, especially ladies, and help people out, even if on a loud drunken spree with my best buds. This guy seems entirely self-possessed, like it's all about him and other people will carry his water. This is Kanye jumping onstage when Taylor Swift was accepting an award. It's kinda like Republicans yelling "you lie" in an Obama speech or other teabagger poutbursts. Had hoped we defined Democrats a bit different, that consensus and serious compromise were parts of democracy. Fight hard, suck it up, play again another day.

    His jackass accepting, sorry, requesting a debate with Donald only to have Donald pull his hand away fratboy style yuk-yuk, and this guy will negotiate with Putin et al... 

    Gracious. And still, Hillary started reorganizing his hated DNC yesterday, the club he never wanted to be part of. Me me me.

    We have to remember that the bulk of Sanders supporters will vote for Hillary. A small subset will try to disrupt the Democratic Convention.,There is nothing Hillary or the DNC can do to appease that subset because that fringe does not trust Hillary or the DNC. Watch any Susan Sarandon interview for confirmation.

    We have to continue to talk about Sanders because he keeps himself in the picture. Sanders says that he will eventually get around to attacking Trump.In other words, he will be on the sidelines while others carry out the real fight. It was so important for Sanders to give his same old speech again that he could not find time for the gun filibuster. There is technology available that would have allowed Bernie to appear briefly on the Senate floor than give his speech from a studio in DC. The issue wasn't important enough for Sanders to adapt.

    Sad, sad, sad results.   A lot went right for Clinton and wrong for the rest of us.  If Joe Biden had run, Sanders probably would have won.  If Sanders had gone after Clinton for violating email regulations in the week before the Iowa caucuses, he might have pulled them out.  But the biggest factor by far was group identity politics.  The idea has taken hold among many Americans that what is best for the whole is not what's best for my discrete group - even if my discrete group is struggling.  That's why Trump won and frankly that's why Clinton won as well.  Given this mindset, for which the Clintons are somewhat responsible, I have little hope for the future.

    Oh bullshit. Most Hillary supporters are likely supporting the whole, not just their own vested interests, whether you think so or not. There's a greater chance a 20-year-old is voting his/her student loans and nothing else, but you dont want to hear that. You're way into your identity shtick but I'd guess you dont even think you have one, that you're everyman/woman.

    Hal can you explain what you are saying? Hillary won ethnic minorities as well as whites. If there was any monolithic voting block, it was whites voting for Sanders. Sanders was ethnically divisive.

    clearly you are  not taking into account the states where Clinton's campaign and followers.( liek yourself) rigged the election with teh DNC. for clinton. stealing votes from sanders. thousands and thousands...... sorry, hillary lost more than she won.....buh bye Felicia

    Oh shit, you got me. I thought I got away with it. (sob) I confess, I confess. I did it. I personally stole thousands and thousands of Sanders votes and gave them to Hillary. I'm sorry, I'm so so sorry.

    ps: It's so cool the way you spell "like" and "the." I love 1337 speak. We n00bs have been pwned lol. Please come back, you'll fit in so well here.


    Internal memos, dated May 2015—long before the first state voted in the Democratic primary—referred to Hillary Clinton as though she was already the Democratic presidential nominee. The documents leaked by Guccifer 2.0 not only illuminate the DNC’s efforts to ensure Clinton’s coronation but also reveal the strategies used to shield her from criticism on ethics, transparency and campaign finance reform—all vulnerabilities for the corrupt Establishment darling.

    Despite being under criminal investigation by the FBI and DOJ, Clinton has still managed to secure the Democratic presidential nomination. And, despite revelations from the State Department Inspector General—who reported Clinton did break federal rules, effectively debunking the defense she has echoed for over a year—Democrats still, shockingly, continued to vote for her in the remaining primary states.

    I'll be waiting for the Wikileaks publication. 

    [Comment removed]

    At least I didn't name myself after a Foo Fighters ditty. Not into self-humiliation, while apparently you're in for a dozen. Keep up the loser streak.

    BTW, I thought Bernie was out of cash - does this mean he had a few nickels left for trolling, or you & Charlotte are looking for new work?

    No it's not hard at all to say bye bye and I am doing that after the primary in my state for the down ballot candidates. I am staying registered Dem. to vote against the establishment party pick who was a Republican and is one of the 1/10th of 1% himself, one of the filthy rich who want the whole pie. Screw him too.

    Millions of us will say bye bye along with me. Hope your corrupt corporate owned candidate loses in November.

    Bye Bye

    Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

    Bernie Sanders lost because he made the Primary an "us versus them" contest. He could not form the multi-ethnic coalition needed to win the Democratic Primary. Instead of forming a coalition he said that everyone who did not support his campaign was immoral. He was in Congress for decades and never reached out to Black or Latino Congress-members. When he announced, he had little support from minority members in Congress. He did not try to mend fences, he had his surrogates call members like Jon Lewis black sellouts. He did the same tomHispanic activists who did not support his campaign. He angered minority voters because Sanders was stating that despite having done nothing worthwhile in Congress, he was going to do better than President Obama. As I noted many times before, Sanders suggested that a Primary challenge should be mounted against Obama in 2012. Sanders was a walking disaster when it came to attracting minority voters.

    One of Sanders most vocal black supporters,Nina Turner,  lost her statewide election in Ohio. She brought no help to the campaign in Ohio. Sanders lost Ohio just like Nina Turner lost.Sanders has no down ballot coat tails. He supported Lucy Flores in Nevada. Flores lost by 14 points. Democrats are focused on attacking Trump and the GOP. Sanders is talking to some supporters today, we will see if he fully supports Democratic candidates.

    Sanders lost because he could not reach people outside of his circle of friends. Hillary is even attracting Republicans because they are repulsed by Trump.The bulk of Sanders supporters will vote for Hillary. Those who don't vote for Hillary will stay home or vote Jill Stein. If some vote for Trump, it is good that they are not  true a Democrats. We will win without them.

    There was no grand conspiracy, there was a Eurocentric Sanders campaign. There was no appeal to the vast majority of minority communities.The Sanders campaign failed without help from outside sources.

    is any of this based in reality and fact???   glaring lies and falsehoods, spoken boldly, does not a fact make.

    oh, what about her pet, Donald trump, used to scar folks into her


    The Clintons were brilliant. Bill got Broke Donald to run to destroy the Republican Party by taking on the faux-personality of Stephen Colbert. The dolts in the GOP were like in realizing that their core voters were stupid enough to fall for the scam. Fox News even let Trump ridicule one of their anchors. White Supremacists came on board gleefully. Paul Ryan and Tim Scott are caught peddling a subsidy cutting anti- poverty plan that will create more poverty. Ryan and Scott cannot get people to focus on their plan for poor minorities because they are supporting a racist who is detested by "the Blacks". The Clintons got the GOP to implode by simply stroking Broke Donald's ego. Kalessi!

    Bernie Sanders has NOT LOST. The party running the machine, literally, including the voting machines that are owned by a Soros company, ( HC supporter) have been tampered with, election fraud experienced by VOTERS in many states sparking LAW SUITS, disgusting display of undemocratic behaviors at polls, in Nevada, and more disgusting, with media culpability!

    Bernie Sanders has NOT LOST. The diseased machine in US politics today, cannibalizing itself, undermining itself, dismissing massive wins and Bernie's movement, a civil rights movement and true patriotic movement, is ongoing and unstoppable. All the dismissive narratives churned out by media and gutless politicians who lost their moral way and caved to the Golden Calf they bow to, will never stop the movement of real patriotism, beyond words and rhetoric being accepted as the shallow and meaningless paradigm media has created.

    Just read;file:///C:/Users/Laura/Desktop/Jesus%20&%20the%20Moneychangers.html

    The story of the Money Changers fast forwarded to present day!!!

    Hell, how many media venues even mentioned Bernie Sanders presentation at the Rome Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences/ Do YOU  know the topic? Of course not! Why would you unless it was HC or DT giving the address in which case it would have been splashed 24/7 for weeks all over corporate puppet media.

    "The URGENCY of a MORAL ECONOMY."  Oh No! What a concept..Imagine.

    No, Bernie is just the beginning of reforming and transforming a diseased system manifesting in the same, to a healthy system that may save the planet for future LIFE !

    Hillary and the DNC hijacked our democratic process, our votes and our ability to vote.  Hillary supporters are too afraid to roll up the sleeves and take responsibility, to do the hard work it takes to purge the the system of oligarchy and extremism from the religious to the war mongers, etc... Let me put it this way, they wish to be led. And led they shall be, by the nose, they like it that way. Bye the bye not that alerting your attention will pang courage striving to erupt under culpable cowardice but, Hillary is a favorite daughter/sister/etc... from another mother, to the Bush crime family. Any whoo, let me now when you want to go to the adult table. Just kidding.


    Apparently Sanders supporters weren't willing to do the "hard" work of going to the polls and voting for their candidate. That's why he lost, not enough votes. Insults and name calling won't change that. Sanders lost the popular vote.

    Hillary and, apparently, some of her supporters seem to think that repeating lies makes them true. The democratic primary has been an embarassment to our country due to the obvious bias by the DNC and mainstream media.  Election fraud cannot be tolerated in a country that considers itself a shining example of democracy.

    Yeah, that Hillary-favoring mainstream media that brought on C*U*N*T t-shirts in her honor in 2008, along with Chris Matthews' Nurse Ratched and "makes me want to cross my legs" comments, and then there's Maureen Dowd. They're all in the can for her this year. Never mind the reappearance of Lewinsky & Hillary horribly intimidates Bill's mistresses stories and the continual malignment of the Clinton Foundation and the New York Times' publishing that Hillary was under "criminal investigation" only to withdraw it...  The press built up how "close" this contest was at every step of the way, inflating the significance of small delegate caucuses and ignoring that the big primaries would completely swamp them. (Michigan providing a little bit of actual tension, but she still only lost that by 1 1/2%, i.e. a draw in delegates.  Look at how the press played up the "close" race in California for weeks, when she blew him away by 500,000 votes, and ignored that she easily won more than half the pledge delegates (instead substituting Bernie's chosen narrative, that she had to win half of pledged & superdelegate numbers using only pledged delegates)

    And apparently someone forgot the press' campaign to draft Joe Biden to save American Democracy from Hillary.

    Rank dishonesty at this stage in the losing game isn't going to play well. Bernie's been playing the refs since last summer, and it's like totally over. I'm sorry your feelings were hurt, but that's politics. As a wise man once said, "Forget it, Jake - it's Chinatown".



    "I think I can, I think I can," - The Little Engine That Could.

    Even Thomas knows he cant climb the Matterhorn.

    This might have legs.

    However, I just made my first Hillary cash donation of the cycle, which included a chance to break bread with her.

    None of this makes me a "Hillary voter"---I'm a Democrat who made a choice.

    Bernie Supporters who have donated to DNC please contact re lawsuit. [email protected]

    I think that's the same firm that handled the class action against Cracker Jack for missing prizes. Uncanny legal parallels - seems $27 should buy you sumtin'. #NoJoyInMudville

    This is sad. Some Sanders supporters seem to be as delusional as the wingnuts who deny climate change. Neither group accepts facts. Both groups maintain that a large conspiracy exists.

    Take a breath, Synch, you're slipping.  Why, you even spelled Hillary's name correctly in the headline!

    From your link. 

    84% of Hillary's news coverage was negative in tone compared to 43% for Trunp. I wouldn't make that argument but the argument could be made that the media tried to rig the election against Hillary.

    Clinton had the most negative coverage out of all Democratic and Republican candidates:


    Could the negative coverage be due to the fact Ms. Clinton is the only Presidential candidate under investigation by the FBI? Could it be because she refused to address personal issues for months and would not do interviews except with entertainment hosts like Ellen? Could it be because she had staff rope off the press from having access? No debates while Republicans were debating weekly. Granted, Trump should have had nothing but negative coverage but, Clinton and the DNC did not challenge his rantings. 

    Bernie did better because the media DID NOT cover his campaigns . 

    So Hillary had negative coverage but still won. Hillary was outspent by Bernie and still won. Bernie's appeal was to mostly white voters. He never had diverse appeal. When he could not attract minority voters, his surrogates attacked politicians and activists in ethnic minority communities. He was never interested in forming a coalition. He wanted to be a dictator. If you disagreed with Bernie, you were a corporate shill. Bernie formed a cult.

    You're just biased, admit it... you and your identity politics.

    [yes, it's the internet - I can say pretty much anything and there it is in print - how beautiful is that?]

    Yep. I identify with the rational and pragmatic.

    What's wrong with intuition, emotion and pulling facts out of your ass?

    Speaking of identity, apparently minorities were none too thrilled to get rid of superdelegates, for pragmatic reasons:

    Bernie never demonstrated an interest in looking beyond his concerns. Everyone was supposed to fall into line. The concerns of the CBC were never Bernie's concerns.

    Thanks for the link

    I think that sells him a bit short - he has concerns for others, but his perspective and framing are limited. Don't think he'd fare well on one of Hillary's listening tours.

    I agree.

    Synch, you're asking Hillary voters if they're listening now, so, since I'm a Hillary voter I'll just say, yes, I'm listening.  I'm listening to a candidate for POTUS who sounds more presidential every day, contrary to the two other candidates, Sanders and Trump.  I'm hearing a woman who has all the attributes of a thoughtful, knowledgeable national leader and has the backing of leaders who are our most liberal party members.

    I'm sorry, the more I see of Bernie Sanders the more I'm convinced his calling is not as president.  He's done a great job of bringing his ideas of social justice to the forefront during this election cycle, and if he had used his soapbox to encourage Democrats to help him bring them to fruition, I and many others would have been with him all the way.  Instead, he chose to diminish and try to defeat not just Hillary but the entire Democratic party.   He's allowing an entire faction to believe the Dems have corrupted the process in favor of Hillary, when he's been involved long enough to know this is how it works. He's taking credit for coming up with ideas that many party members have been struggling with for years.

    Does he really think he can do that and still bring the party to his side?  They're not saints, they're politicians. He built a following and went farther than any of us could have imagined.  He should be proud of this efforts, but in order to put his plans into action he'll need the Democrats.  That means at some point he'll have to stop speechifying and start building coalitions.  I'm not sure he can do that.  I'm not sure he wants to.  His power lies in demagoguing "the establishment" when the establishment is made up of people as passionate and seriously committed to taking down the same enemies and rescuing the same victims.

    I'll be proud to vote for Hillary and I truly believe she'll make a good president.  I don't feel that way at all about Bernie Sanders.  We're going to differ on this, and that's okay.  But hating on Hillary and the Dems is a strange way of bringing us together to get the job done.

    So you don't care that the DNC and Hillary colluded to commit fraud against the public from the very beginning.  That's fine.  I will fight to make sure she does not become POTUS.

    No, it's not that we don't care.  It's that we don't believe it.  Fraud is a big deal.  You have no proof and just repeating the same words over and over doesn't make it so.  


    I read the links.  They are nothing but innuendo, and paranoid fantasies.  Nothing in them would be acceptable in court.  I even fact-checked some of them, where they said the exit polls were different than the actual votes.  After the first three I checked were wrong I didn't go further.  

    In other words, the links themselves are fraudulent.  Got that?  I guess you don't fact-check stuff that fits your own BS.

    Link one -

    Bob Fitrakis. Ohio professor and Green Party/Socialist. Video on 'lawsuit' is two weeks old. He says there are 'crimes' in elections in 24 states. He says every day that passes is another crime. So I guess that since he hasn't filed the 'lawsuit' and it is now 13 days later, he is guilty of 13 crimes too?

    He has been on this gig since 2004. Fitrakis already has a book out on all the 2016 crimes, why did he write the book before filing the lawsuit? Because books make money and lawsuits cost money? Could it be his schtick is this election stuff, Could it be he is another made in America eccentric and/or self promoting grifter? Like so very many selling themselves as 'saving (democracy, America etc), and also their books and organizations?

    Link Two

    Wet behind the ears blogger says, election machines have been hacked. Somebody once showed he could do it as a demonstration. Hillary won therefore the DLC hacked the primary computers.

    Because they must have. Cuz some exit poll didn't match the vote exactly the way the wet behind the ears guy thought, or was told by Fitrakis, or somebody else with a blog. No physical evidence, no witnesses, no method documented.  But for sure in 24 states.

    Questions to ponder.

    If the DLC can hack elections as easily as LeBron can dunk, why do Republicans control Congress? How did it happen? Why do they control so many state legislatures and governorships?

    If you think the GOP can hack elections better than Dems, why did the GOP gerrymander at all in 2010?

    If elections are so crooked and easy to hack, why do candidates spend so much on TV attack ads to swing the vote? Why do guys like Koch and Adelson spend hundreds of millions to mislead voters?

    If Fitrakis is right, why is there not one actual law enforcement investigation of the vote crimes in 24 states?

    Could it be that since there was no one who was actually counting the votes and running the precincts of 24 states officially reporting illegal election vote count irregularities, nor any who testified to law enforcement of seeing criminal activity, could it be it is a bunch of malarkey pushed by eccentrics, true believers and grifters?

    I will fight to make sure she does not become POTUS  

    But doesn´t that mean you will fight to make sure Donald Trump does? 

    I haven' t followed this Hillary/ DNC issue- other things in my life have intervened but I´ll take your word for it. 

    You´ve stuck with  Bernie so far, so  keep on doing that. If he wants to sue the  DNC , support him. If he wants to denounce  it from the convention  podium tweet your support or whatever.

    But don´t pick and choose.   He has said ¨ten thousand times¨  he wants to prevent Trump from winning. So i can't believe that he will fight to make sure HIllary loses. So stick with Bernie in that too.

    No. I will NEVER reward the corruption that Hillary and DNC have engaged in this primary by supporting it in any way no matter what Bernie chooses to do.  In my view Trump and Hilary are both picked 'for us' by the corporations and billionaires that already control our government(see Princeton study re our representatives represent us NEAR ZERO percentage of the time).

    And with this evidence of FRAUD from the beginning coming out... much like rigging a lottery contest, this rigged primary is a fraud against the public. Polls have been done and over 80% of Bernie's supporters are NOT going to get behind Hilary or fall for the idea that Hillary and Trump are our only choices.  It's not going to happen.  That's old school and led us to the mess we're in now.  The class action is not Bernie. The declarations were created by a group of Bernie supporters.  As Bernie says change comes from the bottom up.  We won't be 'sheeple' anymore. It's not possible once you've seen what we've seen.

    Get real, you were not ever going to support Hillary. It has nothing to do with your fraud conspiracy theories.

    Every poll I've seen shows about 75% of Sanders supporters plan to vote for Hillary. Far more than the Hillary supporters who said they would vote for Obama at this point in 08. I suspect that number to go up as the general election campaign continues. You have a link for your theory that " over 80% of Bernie's supporters are NOT going to get behind Hilary" or did you just pull that number out of your ass? has existed since 1 march 2016. They consist of 2 lawyers in Florida. they have raised $15k and sent about half on advertising with a DC firm/internet ads to I assume raise more money. They have not filed any lawsuits. See FEC filings., which denies responsibility for the truth of anything on its site, has the BIG fraud story on the DNC at Bernie Sanders Wins California in Landslide, also at

    These sites I would rate as rumor spreaders, clicks on sites full of unsubstantiated malarkey pay just as much as clicks at sites that try to responsibly report the facts.

    That lie 'Bernie Won in Landslide' went viral on Facebook posts and blogs as the whole truth and nothing but the truth with lots of gerbil brained Bernie supporters. 

    Who also believe there is a lawsuit over the vote count, a vote count which experts say will not change by more than 1% when a million or two provisional ballots are counted. See links below. There is a lawsuit on voter registration procedures, which could afffect any voter Hillary or Bernie. The election is of course over. And other rumors of as yet non-existent filings of a super big lawsuit which apparently assumes some state media exit polls are more reliable than the final, actual state vote tally.


    IMPORTANT: Bernie has not contested the California primary result.   And has never said he won California.. By a landslide or by a squeaker...IS HE PART OF THE CONSPIRACY..?

    See Pants on Fire for Viral Rumor Bernie Sanders Won California.

    Alternet a fairly reliable site explains the counting of votes in CA and why Bernie did not win.

    Bernie's good news is he's down to only 10% loss and has 2 million votes; bad news is Hillary now has a full 2.5 million CA votes and a 500k margin. #FeelTheBernOut

    Math is hard, so we should outlaw math, that way  Bernie wins. :) Math works against all great candidates ask Karl Rove. devil

    Bernie never connected with ethnic minorities. Bernie sees class, not race. Ethnic minorities know racism impacts class. Sanders was blind to the issue of race. His Thursday televised stump speech cemented that he did not consider race a major issue. Bernie Sanders cannot build a coalition that extends significantly into minority communities. The fact that he could not adapt his message to reach groups other than his core white voters lost him the Primaries. The bulk of Bernie's white voters will be voting for Hillary in November joining the larger Democratic coalition.

    Bernie took a possible movement and let it crash and burn. He gave Progressive Senatorial leadership to Elizabeth Warren, Chris Murphy, and others. He is the cranky old grandpa pining for the good old days. He could not break out of the techniques used 30 years ago. He could not change and appeal to current minority voters. He stood athwart history yelling "Stop!". The inability to change is a Conservative characteristic, and it cost Sanders his victory.

    I think you want the idea of a Bernie win so badly you'll believe anything anyone puts out there.

    This is from an article by Ari Berman in the Atlantic called, "The Democratic Primary Wasn't Rigged".  We surely need election reform but it's dishonest to keep on calling the election "rigged". It does a disservice to the Democrats who are trying to rise above the idea that they're no different than the Republicans.  Of course they are. 

    The latest controversy surrounds California, where Hillary leads by 12 percent, 438,000 votes, but Sanders supporters are still claiming he can win the state based on 1.4 million unprocessed absentee and provisional ballots, even though Clinton has won 52 percent of the 800,000 votes counted after Election Day so far.

    I could go on and on, but the point is that the outlandish claims fall apart when subjected to closer scrutiny.

    “To the extent that the nomination was rigged in the sense that there was illegal activity going on that was directed by the Democratic Party or the Clinton campaign to sabotage Bernie Sanders’s chances, I’ve seen no credible evidence of that,” says law professor Rick Hasen of the University of California–Irvine.

    I have to hand it to you for your tenacity, but it's all sounding just a little desperate at this point. Bernie lost. Maybe he never had a chance, coming from pretty much obscurity to challenge perhaps the best known woman on the planet. There's no doubt that he did amazingly well under the circumstances. I don't get the attraction as hard as I try to understand it, but that's really not relevant.

    There was no fraud, nothing was rigged. If anything, the ridiculous rules that need to be changed FAVORED him, they didn't work against him. The caucuses demand that people vote in public, not in the privacy of the voting booth, as tradition has allowed us to do. No one should be subjected to group pressure to vote.

    And the very idea of independents being able to vote for who the Democrats put up as their candidate is bizarre. I had no say in who the Libertarians put up as their candidate, nor the Green Party, or any other party, which is as it should be. He lost by wide margins in states where only Democrats can vote for the Democratic candidate. Doesn't that tell you something?

    Yes, there are a lot of Independents out there. Lots of people feel like neither major party is a perfect fit for them. Well, guess what? Even if they started their own party, it wouldn't be a perfect fit, because people are Independents for very different reasons.

    And since when was any party a perfect fit with everyone belonging to it? Somehow way too many people have bought into the notion that they are going to shove their views down everyone elses throats, and that's just not American. In America, we compromise. At least in a healthy America we do. We discuss, we argue, and we hammer out the best plan we can where everyone gets some of what they want, but not everything.

    Maybe this grand experiment called America just won't work anymore.

    I hope it will. But those hopes get dimmer and dimmer when I see so many people refusing to participate if they don't get their way, and crying foul every time they lose. Lawsuit? How Republican of you.

    Bernie lost because more people thought his ideas had no way of being enacted. If they could have been, President Obama would have done it.

    Bernie lost because more people thought Hillary's idea of continuing to build on what President Obama started is a better plan. They like her progressive pragmatism better than Bernie's yelling and finger waving revolution. 

    I can't make you get over it. I can't make you realize that what you are doing is incredibly destructive to the long-term health of the country. I can't make you believe something you refuse to even consider. But what you are doing is what the Republicans would normally have to do themselves - giving Trump a leg up, and making the Democrat's job so much harder. And it comes with the potential of giving governance of the country over to the Republicans. But it sounds like that is your goal. Burn the whole place down. When Trump is president, they'll get what's coming to them.

    Well, I'm sorry. No one deserves that. Not even Republicans.


    I understand. If you haven't seen what I have this may seem like desperation, if you watch corporate media propaganda(which I have watched become the scariest most coordinated propaganda beyond anything I have ever seen in my lifetime) it seems like I am a sore loser conspiracy theorist.. whatever.

    But I am quite clear and confident that, what I have seen, and what is going on is real, no joke, and that is precisely why I and most Bernie Supporters who have witnessed what I have witnessed will NEVER get behind Hilary and what has been done to this country.

    This primary was a fraud against the public.  If you ran a pageant and invited the public to participate and  rigged it, clear FRAUD.  That is what has happened here.  We don't even have to get into the extreme election fraud and voter suppression to have a clear case here. 

    Once again from my perspective this has all been orchestrated including 'Trump' as the republican nominee. 

    We will do everything we can to try to stop it.  And to us it does look like most of you are plugged in to the matrix... buying everything your being handed... and it's equally sad  and frustrating to us to see it happening.

    And from our perspective the most destructive thing we could do is continue to act like sheeple and play along.

    It's not going to happen.   A recent TYT poll showed that over 80% of Bernie supporters are #NeverHillary. That's not just because we don't 'like' her... Don't expect that to change now that we have more evidence of what we already knew was happening... fraud against 'all of us'. 

    In my view if this was going on with the republicans you would have an easier time seeing it for what it is.  The propaganda from the media has been OFF THE CHARTS.  Most Bernie supporters stopped watching corporate media because of what we have witnessed. It all sounds like Fox News to us now in terms of how rigged things are.  Keeping in mind of course that the corporations that own the media also support Hillary.

    I get that many of you don't like me coming here and blogging because it's not in concert with what most of you are thinking or believing in.  I don't say any of what I am saying here lightly.  I am completely serious. 

    There will be more law suits filed for fraud ie anyone that has ever donated to a candidate participating in this 'contest' and any taxpayer in a primary state where their money paid to participate in the 'contest'... This was fraud plain and simple. 

    See, just that fact that you're saying "many of you don't like me coming here and blogging" shows that you're going off the rails, Synch. Unless there's something going on I haven't seen, all points of view are welcome. Just don't expect to come in with what truthfully sounds like a bizarre rant and expect everyone to accept it.

    There are sincere differences in opinion. You call us sheeple, I think you're wearing a tinfoil hat... It's the very fact that you're so serious, that makes me worry about you. It's like we're living in different universes. But like I said, I don't expect to change your mind, and you certainly won't change mine.

    You took a chart that showed Hillary got way more disproportionately negative press than anyone else, and used it as evidence that the DNC colluded with the media to make Hillary win. That's not even rational.

    You refuse to see that the vast majority of places where Bernie won, the numbers of people who were voting for him were incredibly small, and had they been primaries instead of caucuses, and closed primaries like they SHOULD be, he would have won even fewer.

    I admire your loyalty, and your willingness to take a stand for your beliefs. I think you're misguided, but that's just one woman's opinion. Please feel free to post what ever you want, whenever you want. Just don't expect us to join you in your faux conspiracies. And please DO expect us to push back when we disagree.


    ...most Bernie Supporters who have witnessed what I have witnessed will NEVER get behind Hilary and what has been done to this country.

    What have you and most Bernie supporters witnessed?  In other words, what have you personally seen with your own eyes, as opposed to "buying everything" you "have been handed"?   You say you don't follow corporate media.  That may be why you are unaware that the media has been far more negative about Hillary.  Bernie has gotten a complete pass despite his lack of specifics for achieving his causes, his lack of accomplishments during more than 2 decades in Congress, his support of the NRA initiatives, and many of his past actions that would completely sink him in the general.  

    I guess I also wonder how, if Hilary is the evil genius you claim her to be; did Barack Obama not succumb to the same fraud and rigging 8 years ago.  Hillary won the popular vote against him, but she conceded when the rules (the same ones that were in place this year), denied her a victory.  She did not try to flip SD's, and in fact, saw that many had already flipped to her rival.  If she were some maniacal political behemoth that would not have happened.  She lost fair and square, and so did Bernie,  The difference is appalling in the way that they each reacted to that reality.  Since according to you Hillary has been ruining the country forever, and has super-human powers that allow her to fraudulently manipulate multiple millions of votes without getting caught (there IS no evidence of what you accuse her), why did she wait 8 years when she was a hair away from winning last time?

    It just doesn't make any sense, does it?  

     Yes, Bernie despises the Democratic Party, the DNC, and Hillary,  he nevertheless used the Democratic Party, the DNC, and Hillary's confidential voter information.  Even though he disagrees about SuperDelegates and closed Primaries, he accepted his appointment as a Super Delegate, and he knows that the rules were in place before he took advantage of the Democratic Party's apparatus

    My best hope with all this is that Bernie will stand up, and at the very least, disabuse you and your fellow accusers of the notion that fraud was the reason he lost.  That is the least he can do for you.

    What exactly have you seen?  If you explain in detail it might help us understand.

    I've heard that theory about Trump as a Democratic foil, but honestly. . .from what I've seen, Donald Trump doesn't take orders from anyone. Nobody could have choreographed this.  I'm afraid it didn't take a village to create that idiot.

    Oh come on, Sync didnt even read the supposed damning Harvard link, which was mostly about the media giving Donald free time, along with the whodathunkit "decades old faved candidate gets 3x the coverage of new unknown upstart from backwater state" plus the clincher:

    For supporters of Sanders, the one benefit of low media coverage was that the coverage the Sanders campaign did attract was mostly positive after Sanders started winning, while Clinton had the most negative coverage out of all Democratic and Republican candidates:

    But that won't be convincing - nothing ever is.

    A recent TYT poll showed that over 80% of Bernie supporters are #NeverHillary.

    I see you've added a video from the young turks. I guess that's the poll you're citing. This was an on line poll with no controls that even Uygur admitted was not scientifically accurate. I watch TYT too. Do you need me to find the video where he explicitly states this poll does not follow standard statistical practices is not scientifically accurate?

    What are the possibilities here? You didn't realize that open on line polls are worthless? You didn't see Uygar state that this poll was not scientifically accurate? You think we're so stupid and uninformed that we wouldn't know about TYT poll and you thought you could fool us? TYT video about that poll was on RealClearPolitics for god sakes and most everyone here goes to RCP to get links to some conservative and republican news so of course many of us would see it.

    I watch TYT occasionally because he is a somewhat popular voice on the left but long before this election I've have come to consider him untrustworthy. I diligently read and follow Sam Harris and Nate Silver. I know very well what both have said and what their positions are. Uygar has repeated distorted and out right lied about both. TYT is not a news source but a propagandist of the worse sort. Drudge Report for the left.

    Sync, it's good to see another generation learn firsthand about the crooked democrat party and hopefully they will continue to reject it and confront its sycophants who resist any improvement in their brand of dominance and submission. My generation made the mistake after Chicago in '68 of thinking naively that joining these liberal back-stabbers and war mongers  we could bring change from within but the machine and its quislings know how to undermine and subvert any progressive movement as we have seen with the rise of Clintonism and Obama.

    I agree with much of what you write about the media bias and dismissal of Sanders but the republican primaries seem to have been fair and the results represent the power of Trump's appeal. The media coverage of Trump was because it was and is news and most i have read has been negative but any exposure in our visual society is helpful and Trump took advantage of this fact to crush his opponents and the republican elites they represented.

    Sanders never really seemed to want to win and never really confronted Clinton or the party,  he did inspire people to join the corruption with reform not revolution as the panacea and now he is sliding back to his role as sheepdog for the party, hopefully many of his supporters won't follow that 'leadership' to the dark place he beckons them.

    Poor Bernie.  It's happening.  And he thought he was among friends.

    Clinton will be the 'poor one' if elected and has to give free speeches but Bernie probably won't be invited by her bosses to share the wealth even after he kneels to the Red Queen.

    I never was a friend or supporter of Sanders beyond supporting his meager attacks on HRC and inequality so nothing has happened except some young people have been educated about the Democrat Party's aversion to democracy or even fair play.

    Peter, the Apocalypse is not going to occur during your lifetime. Sorry to disappoint you.

    The election of the Empress of Ineptitude will certainly set the Doomsday Clock closer to doomsday but in the mean time it's good to see some young folks getting educated about the cult behavior of the democrat party. The way these young idealists, who still believe in democracy, are attacked and rejected by Clintonites is telling, the followers must be pure and any dissension must be hacked out and destroyed.

    Huh? she hired Bernie's director of youth outreach, gave Bernie 5 of 15 members on the platform committee, and has rather accepted a number of his positions - which many "Clintonites" already largely agreed with except for some of the details.

    The only "attack" is making fun of the idiots who keep throwing themselves on the ramparts long after the battle is finished. "come back, I'll bite your kneecaps off" says the dismembered knight. "It was stolen, the corrupt Democratic establishment will switch all its superdelegates to us....", we shall overcome, etc., etc. Of course Bernie isn't helping by passing one failed milestone after another and still pretending to be in the game. At least Reagan waited on senility until after he was in office, possibly until almost 2nd term.

     ... , and [Hillary] has rather accepted a number of his positions - ...

    This is an argument for support which makes me laugh as much as it surprises me coming from some people. You have made it numerous times but it is getting to be an old joke. Since when does a politician's flip-flop during a campaign, a flip which they fervently hope will not flop and performed because the candidate sees another's different position gaining big traction, convince anyone with brains and even a short history of following politics, that the flip-flop was a real change in attitude or belief or intention or whatever, that can be expected to last even a week into their administration if said candidate manages to stick the landing? 

    Enjoy your political party of two. Most Sanders supporters will be voting for Hillary.

    When the Sandernistas embarrass themselves in Philadelphia, it will be another nail in the coffin.


    Sanders supporters feel that compromise is unacceptable. Compromise is how politics works. Sanders supporter tears make people who compromise the enemy. Obama, is bad, Hillary is bad, the Congressional Black Caucus is bad. Planned Parenthood is bad, etc. Sanders creates a small group who he considers tolerable. He is ineffective outside of a subset of voters. Nothing would get done because compromise is not possible. Most voters realize that there views would not be recognized by a Sanders administration.


    mrd 0000, considering that what you say has nothing, nada, zero, zilch, to do with what I said, what is your point in repeating this one comment which you have already posted many times? My comment was on the idiocy of taking as an article of faith anything that a politician says in an election and how it is especially idiotic when what is said is a recent flip-flop necessitated by an opponent offering a more popular position. 

    I asked in the same fashion that you responded to a PP post by bringing up flip-flops. I was just trying to get your perspective.

    No, you did not "ask" anything. You repeated a weak claim that you have made many times before. My response to PP had to do with recent positions Hillary has taken because, as PP says, Sanders has made those positions popular. 

    What compromise are Sanders and his supporters making?

    As has also been said here many times including by you, most Sanders supporters will vote for Hillary if we get past presumptions and she becomes the Democratic Candidate. That is a yuge compromise. Of course there are outliers, some will consider a vote for Hillary too big a compromise of their principles and some others would vote for her even if she were hiding out after skipping bail. 


    I agree that most Sanders supporters will vote Hillary. It will be difficult for the remaining hardcore Sanders group to form a cohesive political movement.

    There won't be any handcuffs for Hillary. 



    Hating liberals and Democrats since '68. Savoring the power of Trump's appeal, his crushing of elites in 2016.

    A Bush Belly Sneetch? Been thru the Bush-Off machine?

    They hate our Great Founders! They hate Sarah Palin!
    They hate all good things and they're why we're failin'!
    It's their lack of Tea-Bellies that gives them away
    They're America-haters! And probably Gay!"

    They marched and they cheered and sang lots of brave tunes,
    About how great (Trump?) was, and how Lefties were Loons..

    Peter Trump was picked by the Corporation Owners and Billionaires just as much as HIllary was.

    BILLIONAIRE Donald Trump was given 24/7 Wall To Wall FREE coverage( NO not just for ratings) and they watched him win while they gave it to him.  HE WAS CHOSEN! And the republican party is ruled by the rich and JUST AS CORRUPT, if not moreso, than the democratic party.  BOTH parties now operate as arms of the wealthy elite and there is a NEAR ZERO chance, republican OR democrat that our elected officials represent us.

    Bernie was DEFINITELY IN IT TO WIN IT!.  And I still hold out some hope that we can STOP HIllary and the corrupt DNC and still have a chance to nominate Bernie Sanders, a man of integrity that Fights For The People.

    Hillary will never be a legitimate nominee or if things go badly, president..  and in my view Trump WOULD HATE being president... he doesn't even want it except to pull it off for his ego's sake.  I will NOT however waste my time playing right into the hands of the oligarchy, manipulating us with corporate media propaganda that is off the charts by operating from 'fear of Trump' to accepting an equally bad candidate also chosen 'for us'.

    #NeverHillary #NeverTrump

    Bernie lost, so the reality is that either Hillary or Trump will be President. Hillary was chosen by the majority of Democratic Party voters and Donald was chosen by the majority of Republican voters.

    Sync, I lived in LA during the OJ bronco exodus and following trial. He got 24x7 wall-to-wall free coverage, but that doesn't mean he was anointed or chosen - he just created a perfect media moment. Trump, having been on reality TV for years, knows how to create those moments without murdering his wife, the it has to be somewhat scandalous or it won't sell.

    If both Trump and Clinton were "chosen" by the billionaires and the "corporation owners," and according to you Trump is worse than she is (and all Republicans are worse than Democrats), how do you justify doing everything you can to defeat HRC?  

    I get that you despise Hillary, but she absolutely IS the legitimate nominee, and by trying to "delegitimize" her just because of your subjective feelings, you are behaving the same as the current Republican Congress behaves towards the president.  Is that really the kind of company you want to keep?  

    If Hillary gets struck by lightning, I sincerely hope that Joe Biden gets drafted.  Bernie doesn't deserve to be the nominee of the Democratic Party.  

    Using phrasing such as "manipulating us with corporate media propaganda that is off the charts..." Makes you seem to be simply making hyperbolic stuff up.  I have yet to see one piece of credible evidence for your wild accusations.  

    BTW, as I mentioned before, if Hillary has the power that you say she has, why didn't she "steal" the nomination from Barack Obama 8 years ago when she was ahead in the popular vote?  I think you don't have an answer for that, and the reason is that there is no reason for her NOT to have done that then if, according to you she has manipulated millions of votes this time.  It simply makes no sense.

    Jeb Bush was the choice of the billionaires and millionaires.

    It's not clear what your plans are but you might benefit from reading Jason Goldfarb's 'The Case for Not Voting' at Counterpunch.

    You might benefit from re-reading your debate with Oceankat in which he tore you a new asshole on this very topic. The amount we go round and round here...

    My suggestion of reading the CP post was for Sync who among some of Bernie's supporters seems to be free of the cult conditioning displayed by many Clintonites which frightens many of the Party/System sycophants such as yourself. Ideas about democracy and freedom of choice are heresy to the true believers and you lead in attacking these nonconformists who might possibly contaminate the captured believers who are safely in the bag and could otherwise be ignored.



    Okay, I read it.

    (3) My vote makes a difference

    No, it does not. One vote is statistically insignificant and will never determine the outcome of an election. Thus a vote, in reality, is simply a symbolic affirmation of the system. It is a gesture of consent to be ruled, a declaration that the system is legitimately established. This means that if one does not consent to the current system, that is, if they do not think it is democratic, then they should not vote.

    Here's what I think Jason Goldfarb, PhD student at Duke University, should do:  I think he should get out there in the trenches and work to make a better system.  A really, really good system, so perfect no one will ever have to vote again, where there is no such thing as an oligarch or even a neo-liberal, where Nirvana and Utopia co-exist in a golden place free of human frailty and human misery.

    This may take some time, so until Mr. Goldfarb figures out how to get this done we may have to go on mucking things up. The way we always do.  Because, you know.  Sheeple.

    If  several hundred voters pulled the lever for Gore in Florida, we would have had President Gore not GW.

    Mr Goldfarb seems to be okay with being ruled without his consent. At least Gore voters could say that GW wasn't their fault. A Goldfarb-like voter would have to say that they did nothing.


    In 08 people came out in such numbers that not only did Obama get elected but he got a democratic house and senate. Think about that, just 8 years ago democrats controlled the house, senate by a supermajority, and the presidency. People did not come out in 2010 and democrats lost the house and eventually the senate. I've had disagreements over the years with Obama just as I'm sure I'll have disagreements with president Hillary. But if democrats could have controlled the house and the senate for 8 years we would have seen significant changes for the better with Obama.

    It's even worse than that.  In 2010, of candidates running for the House, Republicans threw every cent at state elections.  They used the $$ to fund smear campaigns against popular Democrats, and cared nothing for the truth, and it worked.  The census is done on years ending in "0" and that gave them the opportunity to redraw voting precincts further to solidify their gerrymandered advantage.  In 2012, Democrats got more votes than Republicans, but the redistributing was so successful it didn't matter.  They have a hold on state governments and are building from there.

    A book by David Daley, Ratfucked, explains it quite well.  Here is a quote, referring to the GOP loss of the House and Senate with the Obama wave in 2008:

    Chris Jankowski is one of the brightest strategists in the Republican Party. And what he saw was how the Republicans could make their way back state-by-state. Jankowski runs something called the Republican State Leadership Committee. And he has a eureka moment in 2009 when he realizes that the following year is a year that ends in zero and that elections at the end of a decade reverberate across the course of the next decade because of the redistricting which follows every census.

    And Jankowski has got connections in statehouses across the country. And he realizes that if they can raise enough money that they can go in state-by-state and do battle - not on the presidential level but in specific statehouse and state Senate districts around the country - redo the maps in the following year if they're able to win, and they've built themselves a firewall for the next 10 years.

    Votes count, folks; and voting matters.  It's amusing to me that the very people who are so willing to stay home or throw their votes away seem to think that bitching and moaning is an effective way to get things done.

    Elderly liberals clinging to the status quo and its corrupt systems trying to dictate failed nostrums to the younger generations certainly enlightens them about who wants them to be sheeple. Some possibly many of them are rejecting this grade school civics conditioning and its obvious consequences.

    The system is so thoroughly corrupt that there are no real levers of power available to anyone outside the ruling class and their minions but there is still the freedom to reject the system and withhold their consent to be ruled by these predator/parasites, it's not much but it is a start towards bigger things.

    We old liberals are and have every right to be proud of the massive changes we wrought. That the young liberals don't see that is just par for the course. They grew up in the better world we made for them and take it for granted.

    Some might pretend they are withholding consent to be ruled by not voting but all they are doing is letting other people choose who will rule them. Whether they vote or not there will be a government, it will make rules, and it will continue to have the power to enforce those rules.

    Oh, please.  It doesn't take an elderly liberal to break down that silly "Just don't vote" argument.  Or that silly "The system is so thoroughly corrupt it deserves to be torn down" argument.  Nothing is that black and white.  Yes, the system needs big fixes but we're in the middle of a crucial election year and all I hear from you guys is a case for destroying the system, with no seeming thought about what you're going to do with it once it's been blasted into rubble.

    You want us to take you seriously?  Then get serious.  We live in a country that's worth saving.  Either help us or get out of our way.  Hyperbolic oratory never saved a job, filled a belly, or put a roof over anybody's head.

    Their "take down the government" meme reminds me of a certain Political Party that continues over and over again to repeal the Affordable Care Act despite the fact that (even though they they really don't want to succeed because) they have nothing, nada, zilch to replace it with.  They consider themselves safe because they keep trying to take everyone's health care away, knowing that since they can't do it they won't be blamed for it.

    These guys, such as Peter, posting today, can spew bravely about burning everything down, knowing full well they will continue to be protected by the government, which they depend on.  

    Getting wrapped up in resentment is like eating rat poison and waiting for the rat to die.  

    Amazing how they all spout the exact same thing.  And they call us sheep.

    Their Achille's heel is that they have no desire to work with others. Everybody outside of their bubble is the enemy. The members of Sanders campaign who are on the DNC platform committee will now have to promote rules changes that are opposed by the Black and Latino Caucuses. His appointees will be highlighting that Sanders is tone deaf on issues important to minorities. 

    Ah "they," such a useful word. "They" say this, "they" say that, how silly "they" are. With "they," it's so easy to tie 'em up in a nice little package and leave 'em on the doorstep for the trash collector.

    Yeah, sort of like putting all "elderly liberals" in one package.  Silly.


    Actually, "they" is usually an acceptable word.  Pronouns are a shorter way to include many people in a sentence.  Several new posters, plus Synchronicity, Wattree, Peter, Charlotte, etc etc are who I was referring to with "they."  How is that wrong?  Oh!  And the riversong guy above who called Perecles a fu**ing idiot.  He was included in my "they."

    Yes, "they" is a very convenient pronoun.

    PS I missed the reply to PP. It has been removed.

    This is total bullshit. You younger people have the benefit of the changes we made, like it or not. We may not have gotten it completely right every time, but for the most part, things are better now than when we were at your age.

    When I was a young woman, I had few choices. I tried to get a summer job as a box boy and gas station attendant and was told, girls don't do that job, and wasn't even given an application. The fact that I was strong, and knew my way around a car was of no interest to them. Young women take it for granted today that they can apply for, and usually get any entry level job they want. Yeah, that glass ceiling is still there, and we still aren't paid as much as men, but it's better. You will get us even closer if you don't burn the place down first.

    When I was a child, I SAW the colored drinking fountains and segregated bathrooms. My kids have not. Racism is still here (more so it seems than we thought prior to having a black president) but it isn't as bad. Again, you'll advance us even further should you choose to build on what we've accomplished instead of burning the place down. 

    Same with LGBT issues. I never would have imagined as a young adult that things would change so quickly. And again, you can take us even further. But not if you burn it all down and try to start from scratch.

    Please don't negate the progress we've made with your "elderly liberals" crap. You have it so much better than we did in so many ways, and we're rooting for you to take the baton from us and make the world an even better place. You don't need to reinvent the wheel, you just have to continue to work within the system and keep improving it.

    I don't know where y'all got the idea that America can only survive through revolutions led by hard asses. That's not the way our forefathers envisioned things. They made it tedious and difficult to make major changes on a whim for a reason. They gave us a system of checks and balances for a reason. They KNEW that people got feathers up their asses and wanted to make huge change RIGHT NOW. They were smart enough to know that it wouldn't work like that. They intentionally made it so that we had to work together and compromise, not allow one group to force their will on the other.

    And please don't get the idea that just because so many people are pissed, it would be easy to start over. You're all pissed for different reasons, and the idea that you could come to consensus is preposterous. People interested in coming to consensus are the people who know that all progress is made through incrementalism and compromise, something both the pissed off extremes have no relationship with.

    Yeah, we've let things get more screwed up than needed to be. But I'll lay that right at the feet of the so-called progressives that got pissed off because President Obama didn't do what they wanted fast enough and showed him by staying home in 2010 and again in 2014. The first time we got a Repub house, the 2nd a Repub senate. Yep. They showed us. Now you're threatening to do it in a general election, in which case we'll get a Republican president and they'll hold the house and senate, with the added capper of being able to select 2-3 Supreme Court Justices, which will screw us up for generations. 

    So, you might want to consider getting off your high horse, giving some thought to what us old geezers have done for you, and consider that we just might know what we're talking about. You'll get the reins soon enough, and hopefully by then, you'll have a little more wisdom.

    Again, Stillidealistic, beautifully said.  Our problems are too big to just go at them willy-nilly, without some serious thought to methods and outcomes.  I fear for us again this election year.  When anger leads to tearing down instead of building up, when it leads to the very real chance that the Republicans will take over D.C completely, something has to happen to get us back on track.  We simply can't let the Republicans choose our Supreme Court justices, but beyond that, we can't let them go on deciding what's best for us.  Their interpretation is always what's best for them.

    I don't know how to get through to the young.  Any attempt at trying to explain things to them, as you did just now,  is taken as insulting or dismissing them.  Should we listen to them?  Of course.  Should they listen to us?  Apparently not.

    Thanks, Mona. I'm feeling a little frustrated that so many of the young know so little about history, or at least don't know how to apply it to the current situation. I guess it's hard, in the day of e-mail and microwaves, and other forms of instant gratification, to have respect for the fact that some things take time. And seriously, the part about forcing our will on the whole country? It's super easy to flip things around and ask, "How do you like the fact that they are doing it to us?" It's not right. In fact, it's downright "unAmerican." So why would we want to do it to them?

    I am under no illusions that the Democratic Party is perfect. We have issues, no doubt about it. But we're a hell of a lot better than the Repubs, and the fact that so many (of varying ages) can't see the difference is disturbing. 

    Yeah, Peter - no levers of power. Gay marriage didn't get voted in in numerous states until the Supreme Court ratified it as law of the land. Legalized marijuana hasn't passed in multiple states. A large health care bill didn't make its way through Congress, lowering the uninsured to below 10% for the first time. No cities have passed new higher minimum wage laws. No politician is pushing education funding & loan reform. It's all a dream, we're all disenfranchised, and the only way to assert our rights is to not vote so *they* know we're unhappy, along with feeble.

    Here, have another cup of lame.

    Now that the  threat of mild reform represented by Sanders, and even more so by his huge support among young people, has been crushed the democrat elite wish they could get back to BAU. They even have Lizzie Warren dumping her anti-bankster shtick for hatchet work aimed at Trump, all day every day.

    The hand-wringing now is about the #Bernie or Bust irruption which could spread and already has support from the Boycott Elections movement and it is being supported, or at least reported, at CP. Suppression of this dangerous idea is a priority for the enablers of the status quo, as we see here, but an idea who's time has come is hard to destroy and the Clintons are the perfect grifters to drive this small but critical break with these serial abusers and their machine.

    I was pleasantly surprised to see new commenters here at this most liberal site confronting the enablers of corruption and pledging to never vote for the Clintons.

    Peter, how on earth do you expect to have meaningful conversations with those of us who are Hillary supporters when you call us "enablers of corruption" and worse? 

    Michael takes exception when we use the pronoun "they".  Well guess what?  I take exception at being called an enabler of corruption. That's bullshit.

    My last comment to you.


    Hey Mona, just explaining my poke about "they." I do think that the pronoun lends itself to straw man arguments and guilt by association, but my main concern is that it encourages team sports, which was the death of TPM Cafe--as Artappraiser noted during her brief cameo the other day. The more we divide the dag community into "Hillary people" and "Bernie people," the more we expose ourselves to flame wars and grudge matches.

    "Enablers of corruption" and "elderly liberals" is certainly bullshit and even more divisive, but there were plenty of people taking Peter to task more eloquently than me. (Plus, if you haven't noticed, my tendency to respond to someone correlates with my level of respect for their writing.)

    Perhaps it’s time to finally let the shadow of TPMCafe fade.  There were many reasons why Marshall chose to shut it down, and none of them need to be rehashed here or elsewhere.  Dag is a political website with a small group of intelligent, thoughtful, passionate and at times unruly people who have come to “know” each other rather well - give ‘em a presidential primary and then expect no lines to be drawn or teeth bared?   Impossible.  But perhaps more importantly, trying too hard to create an atmosphere of false camaraderie suppresses truthful expression.  Not to mention that sometimes a well-placed bite is required!

    It's not about why Josh shut down TPM Cafe. It's about why Articleman and I left TPM Cafe to found dagblog. Essentially, we were sick of the food fights, gang wars, and personal feuds. We managed to avoid those problems through a lot of hard moderation work, but they still creep in occasionally, and they have been creeping fast for the past few months.

    Camaraderie is not the point. The point is not having every discussion turn into an extended, traveling flame war between rival factions.

    If only there was something else happening in the world for us to talk about besides the Hillary/Sanders fight.

    If a terrorist attack, gun control legislation, and Donald Trump can't distract us, I don't know what can. Quick, someone say something racist.

    Something racist.

    Or perhaps insane politics in general?

    There's a terrorist attack or mass shooting everyday. That's not news, it's more like dog bites man. Everyone knew that gun control legislation was going to fail. Again not news. But Sanders will probably win the nomination at the convention with the votes of the super delegates or "corporate whores" as he affectionately calls them. We can talk about Trump after we find out who the democratic nominee will be. Let's stay focused on what matters.

    Gun legislation is interesting. The NRA argues that good men with guns can save the day. Blacks realize that good black men with guns will be the first ones shot when adrenalin charged police arrive on the scene of a shooting, especially a mass shooting. The legal system will find the police shootings justifiable given the state of mind and perspective of the police.

    Oh, and millionaires and billionaires.

    The fact is, there is a division here between Hillary supporters and Bernie supporters.  We're not going to get away from that, and we're not always going to be polite about our differences.  It gets ugly when anger goes unchecked, which is why we obviously need moderators.  I don't think it'll ever get as bad as it did at TPM, but we have huge differences of opinion and we all want to think our opinions matter. 

    I'm all for encouraging differing opinions but this isn't the first time, nor is Peter the first commenter who has accused Hillary supporters here at Dagblog of being criminal accomplices or criminal enablers. "Guilt by association".  I don't believe the ones hurling those charges are interested in maintaining a community here at Dag.  These kinds of charges go against all we've tried to build here. 

    They've been coming fast and furious in the past weeks, which is why I thought picking on an innocent pronoun was a little disingenuous when Hillary supporters here are regularly charged with ethics and morality violations simply for supporting a viable candidate for president.

    Peter, ToS violation for "enablers of corruption" and "elderly liberals." That's your second. Please make your point without personal attacks.

    Michael, I have no problem with "elderly liberal".  I wear that badge proudly.  It's what went with it that was the problem:

    Elderly liberals clinging to the status quo and its corrupt systems trying to dictate failed nostrums to the younger generations certainly enlightens them about who wants them to be sheeple.

    Michael, both of those labels are aimed at general demographics and if someone identifies with them that is their personal choice. I am also elderly and was until a few years ago an enabler of this system so i was included in this problem.

    Some elderly people continue to have hope and will work for and cast votes for political candidates of their choice. These elderly folks know what changes have occurred and see better days ahead. Other elderly folks may reflect on the theirs and see only failure. This group of elderly people lose hope and try to infect others with hopelessness. 

    So in other words, we old folks are a lot like everyone else.  Why the distinction then?

    The elderly Liberal attack was a throwaway barb. Peter simply sees no hope. From a practical standpoint if you are elderly and feel the end is near, you may be statistically correct ....for you. It does not mean that others, young and old, cannot take up the battle.

    Congratulations on your enlightenment in your old age, but watch the blanket aspersions

    Thank you for your kind words, Michael but my enlightenment/education began before i  was able to vote. Seeing and hearing MLK in person in '63 started the process and LBJ's war with a bit of acid brought out the radical analysis i still use. Many of the elderly liberals of today remind me of the elderly liberals of that era who scolded us and demanded we follow their failed and degenerate dictates.

    It appears that Obama and HRC's stooges in the State department are paving the way for another war when HRC ascends to power so all i ask is that her supporters admit what they are voting for when they make their choice.

    There were liberals demanding you follow 'failed and degenerate dictates' of exactly which liberals?

    When precisely in your callow youth was America run by liberals?

    What are the degenerate dictates you refer to? It is not self-evident.

    I have some inkling of what you are against but have no idea about what you want.

    So tell me how many people globally the wars of 1963-1970 killed vs the wars of 2009-2016?

    Perhaps the answer will surprise you?


    Okay. This morning is the first moment I have had to get REALLY, TRULY ENRAGED About Hilary Clinton being the first woman aimed at the white house(like a nuke that needs to be stopped) because instead of being able to be excited about it, I Have To Fight Her Tooth And Nail Because She IS A Criminal, Grifter, Psychopath!

    &%!!*#&^!@&##@ Hilary!
    Go To Prison Already! Stop This Evil Insanity!

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -?

    It is clear to me that what it takes for a small group of powerful, insane people to defeat hundreds of millions is to deceive them and keep them divided, distracted, and just comfortable enough that they won't join together and unify with enough force/power to stop them.


    I politely suggest you're taking this way too serious and personal.

    You're being polite??? Where is peracles and what have you done with him? A personality change of that magnitude is enough to convince me that you must be deceived. Or brained washed. Or something.

    Trump would appoint wingnut judges

    Trump would crash the economy

    The bigots who supported Brexit because of their anti-immigration stance support Trump

    White supremacists support Trump

    The country would suffer under Trump.

    The fact that this does not concern you places you as an outlier not to be taken seriously.

    The GOP Benghazi witch hunt report found nothing on Hillary

    There so-called email scandal will fizzle out.

    Bernie will lead the anti-Hillary fanatics to their political deaths when he oversees the disruption in Philadelphia 

    The television cameras will show spoiled little white boys protesting women, blacks, Latinos, and Progressive whites peacefully attending a national convention. The BernieBros are over.


    Hal, the post I responded to is the the type of post we discussed.

    We were lucky to have two excellent candidates. One of whom went on to win the popular vote .And did better in GA 6  in November than our (  also excellent ) candidate did this week.

    It's good that we were  so concerned about the country that we passionately backed one -or the other-of them during the primaries. Now let's move on.


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