Michael Maiello's picture

    Then They Came for Bill Clinton (Again)

    Really, liberals?  Really?  More than seventeen years after we movedon.orged this issue, we're going to turn on Bill Clinton? As with most progressive mistakes, this seems to come from a well-meaning place.  We lefties like to be intellectually and ethically consistent and we are trying to make the world a better, more inclusive place, after all.

    I can also certainly see how, on the surface, it seems like Bill Clinton's story is analogous to the stories of other famous and powerful men who abused women with impunity for decades only to be called out long after fortunes were made and power attained, in effect made to suffer consequences long after enjoying spoils of life unknown to the vast majority who will ever live.

    But it ain't so.

    Because none of the arguments I've read contra Clinton make serious mention of The Arkansas Project, a long-running political dirty tricks and smear campaign financed by the late billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife. It involved a whole lot of made up stories about Bill and Hillary and a whole lot of Scaife money transferred into the hands of southern swamp rats and assorted sundry people who could fabricate stories to bring down Clinton. It ended with a multi-year investigation led by an out of control special prosecutor who was more biased against his target than most.

    In short, if Bill Clinton could credibly have been accused of ever having raped anyone, Kenneth Starr would have made a huge deal out of it. He examined the claims and went with perjury in a civil suit as his casus belli. See, the big complaint against other powerful abusers is that claims against them were either ignored or never investigated.  Claims against Clinton were not only investigated, they were investigated by a hyper-powered prosecutor out for his target's scalp.

    In my lifetime, I've seen two democratic, two term presidents.  Both were treated by their opponents as if they didn't belong in the White House -- Clinton for being a country bumpkin and Obama for being black. Obama gave his opponents a lot less to work with, to be sure, but the birtherist attack on his presidency is analogous to the Arkansas Project. Turning on Clinton now is like waiting 18 years and then deciding that maybe Obama really was born in Kenya.  It's that stupid.



    The independent prosecutor investigations of the Clintons in the 90's cost close to $80 million.

    The Republican administration of GW Bush allotted $3 million for the 9/11 Commission Investigation, led by Kean and Hamilton.

    Trump is insane

    Trump is a white supremacist

    Trump has a commission design to suppress votes

    Jeff Sessions and Jared Kushner repeatedly lied about contacts with Russians

    Jeff Sessions says that he is unaware of an FBI report targeting black identity extremists 

    Republicans are raising taxes on the poor and middle class

    Republicans want to gut healthcare 

    I don’t care about Bill Clinton

    I don’t care about Hillary and uranium sales

    Note: If another woman accuses Franken of sexual misconduct, he will have to resign.

    NO, Al Franken will not have to resign unless there's serious wrongdoing revealed, not a 2nd prank photo by a comedian or other "revelation". They were *touring*, for God's sakes - long hours/days with lots of time to kill, and this is the worst of it? It makes a mockery of all the serious shit that's been revealed, and if we fall for this Roger Stone trick en masse, we're all a bunch of loser cornfed crackers.

    Couldn't have said it better.  So true.  

    Agreed. In fact, there shouldn't be an ethics investigation. Franken was not in government at the time and the woman who is complaining did not work for him nor was he in a position of power over her. As I understand it, the photo was staged. Okay, the kiss may have been gross. Nothingburger.

    So Trump shouldn't be investigated for anything befor Nov 8 because he didn't work for government and many of these didn't work for him?

    I don't think Tweeden's claim should give rise to an ethics investigation. I don't think Franken's and Trump's situations are equivalent. Trump is or has been alleged to have committed serious crimes and several of the women who have complained - including an Apprentice contestant and the beauty pageant contestants - were subordinate to him. With Trump we're looking at a pattern and practice of abusing power. I don't see that in the incident described by Tweeden.

    Was just playing a bit of devil's advocate - seemed the way you phrased it, they might then use to sweep more heinous stuff under the rug. And of course they have overt lying and being blatantly deceptive on their side.


    I'm with you on this but, man, liberal Twitter has fallen for it.

    We are not in disagreement. I should have clarified that I meant if the circumstances suggest truly aggressive behavior. Right now, Franken is going to cooperate with an investigation. Franken’s event happened before he was a Senator. If Franken is investigated, Roy Moore would have to be investigated. If Franken and Moore are investigated, kitty-kat grabber will look more like a pervert. If Republicans think through this, they will use the “happened before he was in the Senate” loophole to deal with Franken.

    The usual sequence of events has been that after the first allegation, others follow. I hope this is a one off.

    I have no doubt Roger Stone will find 1 or 2 more. I don't know if there will be any *believable* ones, and I don't trust this particular friend of Hannity.

    At the end of the day, the charges against Trump have to addressed. We are watching the Evangelical movement destroy itself in a quest to remain in the good graces of power. There were about a dozen Evangelicals including Alan Keyes would stood on a podium to praise Roy. Moore. People who did not believe Roy Moore were called Communists, heathens, and worse. The Christian Right has lost its mind.

    The complete lack of skepticism about the accuser in this case is infuriating.

    What, by the way, is Schumer going to investigate here? Ask her, ask him, dead-end, right?

    Tie goes to the runner?

    They can talk to the photographer. I've seen a tweet supposedly from the photographer that disputes Tweedens story. I won't link or discuss it at this point since I can't verify that it was in fact from the photographer. I suspect that Franken didn't grope her. I suspect that he used her as she slept as a prop for a sexist joke and it likely didn't go any farther than what we see in the photo. Inappropriate and wrong but not groping. The alleged forced kiss is a she said he said situation and likely dead end as you posted.

    I don’t usually follow Kos but one blog does link to a site that tracks Russian bots and found that these bots are helping feed the Franken frenzy.

    We may see other Democrats face similar attacks.


    I wonder how many times they run this play before the midterms?

    Trump, Sessions. and the Republicans in Congress are not going to lift a finger to stop them.

    Well FDR cheated on his wife.

    I do not like the Clintons.

    For sure.

    But damn? What has three decades got to do with the felon in office now?




    I am more worried about the billions that Trump shall reap from his administration right now.

    And in the end, RICO must be used in order to take it all back.

    This crook must be taken down.

    Here is hatch acting like a drunken GOP prick



    Glad at least you have your eye on the ball.

    Unfortunately for us libertine liberals, Michael, what Kristof opines is probably true:

    Blue States Practice the Family Values Red States Preach

    Just sign me:

    never wanted me a white picket fence, 2.5 kids and a guaranteed 9 to 5 job, and was really sad when even gay culture started wanting that....

    Kristof... ugh.


    De Blasio says he agrees with Gillibrand that Clinton should have resigned

    @ Politico.com @ 11/20/2017 07:21 PM EST
    It's this part that kills me: nobody asked him ....de Blasio told reporters during an unrelated press conference in Queens....
    Just sign me: ~ never a big fan, starting to dislike intensely,...

    Come on De Blaz... no cause for unforced errors.

    The mania is not over; this is a big one: NBC fires Today show host Matt Lauer for inappropriate sexual behavior

    • NBC News received detailed complaint from a colleague
    • Network has ‘reason to believe this may not have been an isolated incident’

    I was actually shocked how quickly he rose the ranks once he broke in the big time circle and how he somehow got a heartthrob reputation. Because I first saw him back in the 90's, as a guy announcing news break bulletins on some local channel and after being fired from that, going downhill instead of uphill: hosting one of those sleazeball talk shows in the Jerry Springer style on independent (mostly sleazeball) Channel 9 WWOR out of NJ. Then all of a sudden he's a star! It's almost like the plot of Rosemary's baby. But now they could just be tired of him, ratings down? We just really can't know anymore when it gets this crazy with accusations about the past.

    And another big one! Garrison Keillor fired by Minnesota Public Radio over allegations of improper behavior

    The former host of A Prairie Home Companion said he had been fired by the radio station, but did not give any details of the allegation

    It's like the media is paving the way for millenial males and females of all kinds to take over, there won't be any older males left in it.

    You're a gentlemanly type, Michael, you should think about job change time and get your resume out there.....

    That's a gross exaggeration. In every organization where a couple of top or mid level stars have been fired there are hundreds if not thousands of men who haven't been touched by scandal. Likely there will be a few more in every organization but in the end most of the men will still be there.

    Yes it's an exaggeration, hyperbole to make a point.

    Resume? better to give them your epitaph for your tombstone. Out of work & past  40, 45? Hope you like the word "consultant" by your name. Nothing more out there aside from "welcome to Wal-Mart".

    Speaking of WalMart, an aside. I went to a Walmart while in FL on the night of Black Friday. And the employees, of all ages and colors, were really bonding, hugs and goofiness and punchiness all around, and customers of all ages and colors seemed to be supportive, too. One of those moments when I felt, hey, things aren't as bad as I read on the blogs, and also if things really get bad, it still works that Americans stick together.

    Edit to add: of course, all the good people are night owls. Those morning people: ugh, vicious.

    Hah, another cultural divide pinpointed. I used to be a morning diner person til I moved where they don't have morning diners.

    That does it - we're pathetic. Maiello, tell me you never pulled an illegal hold on on of those mama rasslers in the ring. Wolraich - we remember those neon Genghis lapels - harassment in and of themselves. Doc, tell me you never dwelled a bit too long on some of Shakespeare's tawdrier scenes just to impress some heated Ophelia wearing but ordinary attire, nothing to taunt, much less objecti, but still to turn a fleeting glance once fixed, once free to wander the recesses of her habit and to imbibe yet let pass without redress as lingers amongst that curves that summoned the inner torment of flesh that feasts upon her front row? (tl:dr - did you stare down some lass's ass in class?)

    Alright, Michael - I'll take the bullet, you can fire me now... someone's got to be the man around here. I confess I used fowl language with BwakFat and played toesies with Barefooted and played the naughty bits of My Sharona for Ramona. I apologize and am embarrassed by my behavior though not enough that I shouldn't be lashed *from* the masthead and tied *to* the yardarm and have my pension garnished and quartered, and am terribly sorry that all of you (or at least the ones who have some shame) must have been uncomfortable with my bad boy behavior and knew I had it coming. Ok, I've made my bed, now make me lie in it...

    Many times I was tempted to say something but I felt the pressure to remain anonymous under a pseudonym so I couldn't come out of the closet and sue.cheeky (Even then, I got run out of TPMCafe as a rabble rouser....)

    p.s. comes to mind, though: bwakfat could give as good as she could take.

    My thoughts exactly - I was framed, set up, an innocent victim!!! That time we were touring the chicken coop and I had a go at her eggs - just an accident!!!

    I meant more like there's no reason butch dykes can't be filling some of the more difficult open positions

    What does gender parity mean in the age of gender redefinition anyways?

    Don't forget to throw this in the mix: that the sex robots are surely coming!

    When everyone can harass everyone then we will have achieved true gender equality?

    As Ray Davies wrote rather presciently, "Girls will be boys and boys will be girls, it's a mixed up muddled up shook up world".... the future is transgender. If you haven't made the switch, well, you just don't know, and hard to see why we'd even bother talking to you. Even droids better be down with swinging both ways - though multitasking should come easier for them. What's that Tom Jones song about "sex bot, sex bot...."

    Latest Comments