The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age
    Danny Cardwell's picture

    The Lies Are True; We Just Don't Get It!

    By Danny Cardwell on Thu, 01/10/2019 - 4:37pm | Politics

    "If the only trade that occurred between the United States and Mexico was my buying 10 Mexican avocados for $30 and someone there buying a T-shirt from me for $10, the trade deficit would be $20. But if I only bought five avocados, dropping the trade deficit from $20 to $5 ($15 for the avocados minus $10 for the shirt), it is not the case that the U.S. government is suddenly $15 richer. The feds don’t suddenly have $15 more to spend on wall building; the $15 is in my pocket."

    Phillip Bump

     

    On December 13, 2018, Donald Trump tweeted the following lie:

     

    Donald Trump has convinced his followers that reducing the trade deficit with Mexico would pay for his wall; this lie, like the 7,000+ other lies he's told since becoming president, has been swallowed up whole and regurgitated by his base.

    Phillip Bump's analogy disproving this trade deficit lie is spot on; sadly, it, like basically every known fact, will be ignored and/or explained away. For the better part of three years the truth has been getting its proverbial ass kicked by the constant lying of this administration. The only thing we can do to restore any since of sanity is to let Trump and his base have their version of the truth. 

    We need to quit arguing with them. We need to quit trying to convince them. Blog posts, newspaper articles, fact checks in real time and scholarly think tank pieces have all failed. We are wasting our time and ruining our relationships. There isn't a better argument.

    America has to admit there's a third of the country we have to let go. I know this is a hard pill to swallow for some progressives. Trump's base is their ultimate afterschool special. There are progressives who sincerely believe that the lies, racism, xenophobia and misogyny Trump feeds his base is something other than food for their souls. What we've been witnessing aren't the symptoms of economic anxiety. This is a full on attack on sanity and reason. To paraphrase Lil Duval we have to stop going back and forth with his people. 

    “When during the campaign, I would say ‘Mexico is going to pay for it,’ obviously, I never said this, and I never meant they’re gonna write out a check, I said they’re going to pay for it. They are.”   Donald Trump

    Mexico was never going to pay for the wall. Anyone who believed they would knows absolutely nothing about how sovereign nations operate. The fact that he has wiggled on this so much matters to the Conservative media, but it means very little to his base. There's some nuanced way to understand him that we just don't get. 

    Topics: 
    Politics

    Comments

    Thanks for the clarity and the sanity. I think the reason Liberals discuss Trump’s lies is to maintain their equilibrium. The media has already begun the double standard. The Associated Press argues that Pelosi and Schumer not giving in to Trump’s $5B demand for the wall, makes Democrats as guilty as Trump in the shutdown.

    https://thedailybanter.com/2019/01/09/ap-tweet-blames-democrats-for-the-trumpshutdown/

    The “likeability” of Elizabeth Warren is already being questioned. The press learned nothing from the bias shown in 2016.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/03/elizabeth-warren-likability-us-media-sexist-hillary-clinton

    Trump supporters are a lost cause. The problem now is that the media will tilt the scales towards Trump.

     

     


    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 01/10/2019 - 6:22pm

    It irks me when Chuck Todd types play the devil's advocate on issues where right and wrong are clearly defined. 


    by Danny Cardwell on Thu, 01/10/2019 - 6:35pm

    Danny they will say....

    Hey, you can look at this this way....or that way or?

    The only devil remains in the details.

    Lies.

    All this moron does is lie.

    And Chucky Cheese knows better.

     


    by Richard Day on Thu, 01/10/2019 - 10:18pm

    Trump said he didn't say he'd promised not to say Mexico wouldn't pay us later for The Wall.

    So he's gonna take Army Corp of Engineer money meant to protect Texas from hurricanes.

    THE WALL


    by NCD on Thu, 01/10/2019 - 10:30pm

    Trump began by saying that his inauguration crowd was lager than that of President Obama. He should have been called a liar to his face by media at that point, instead we got Spicer being used to continue to spread the lie.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/06/donald-trump-inauguration-crowd-size-photos-edited

    Obama, Hillary, or Bernie would have been called liars to their faces. Trump got a pass from media and it has gone downhill from that point, They gave the liar free airtime. I’m pissed because I heard that the FBI was a good show, and wanted to see it for myself. I really hate Trump.

     


    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 01/10/2019 - 11:29pm

    NYT has an article about the negative impact of the shutdown on farmers in regions that voted for Trump. Many farmers rely on government aid in the form of loans to survive. Their livelihoods are at risk because no money is flowing from the government into their pockets.

    Still Trump has supporters in the regions 

    Mr. Trump is expected to address a largely friendly audience on Monday at the American Farm Bureau’s annual convention. Many farmers, including David Nunnery, 59, of Pike County, Miss., have stayed unflinchingly loyal to Mr. Trump and his demands for $5.7 billion for a border wall, even as the shutdown threatens their livelihood.

    “I may lose the farm, but I strongly feel we need some border security,” Mr. Nunnery said

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/farmers-trump-administration.html

    Ride or die.


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/11/2019 - 8:12am

    You used a poor example to try to discredit Trump's point about the USMCA. A better example would be the auto parts that will be produced by US manufactures in  the US to use in vehicles built in Mexico which produces jobs, income, taxes and reduces the deficit.

    I realize it's difficult to digest the fact that Trump , with all his  faults, has done more for American workers in two years than Obama did in eight along with reforming the racist criminal justice system instituted by Clinton and little changed by Obama but this Honky is working for all Americans.

    Trump voters will appreciate your letting them go because they don't need whining, race baiting losers dragging them down to their degenerate level of spite and malice.

     


    by Peter (not verified) on Fri, 01/11/2019 - 3:37pm

    Honky?

    You really must be a Russian troll. Try watching current media to update the lingo

    Trump took action on federal prison reform to please Jarrod. Jarrod’s father was sent to the federal pen and Jarrod wanted reform.

    Trump has removed reforms in the justice system made by the Obama administration 

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mbpnkb/trump-has-already-demolished-obamas-criminal-justice-legacy

    Try researching a topic before posting


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/11/2019 - 4:18pm

    This is simply not true. There has been a slow but steady increase in the numbers of manufacturing jobs in the US since 2010. Most of the gains during Obama's time in office. It's continued upward during Trump's term but with little change from the Obama years. There's been continuous job growth for 94 straight months. Again the Trump months haven't been significantly better than the Obama months. In fact "President Trump's First Year Of Job Growth Was Below President Obama's Last Four Years."

    Again you've been conned by fox news talking points but the facts are there if you're open to getting beyond the spin.


    by ocean-kat on Fri, 01/11/2019 - 4:31pm

    Real wages effectively declined in 2018, according to figures from the PayScale Index, a formula from the Seattle-based salary comparison site. PayScale said the median wage increases, when adjusted for inflation, were only 1.1% since last year and 1% over the past year. “However, the modest uptick in nominal wages failed to bring real wages out of the red for the year,” it said.

    In fact, when adjusted for cost of living increases, real wages actually declined 1.3% since the end of 2017, PayScale found.

    marketwatch


    by NCD on Fri, 01/11/2019 - 5:20pm

    Peter, you prove the point of the post. You are simply devoid of facts and you make zero effort to obtain valid information. You are the typical Trump supporter, armed only with alternative facts (lies)


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/11/2019 - 6:58pm

    (Hey Peter)? I wish you and yours all the best. It's sad you chose to resort to using a fake identity to level your criticisms. I guess being a coward is more honorable than being a "whining, race baiting loser".

     

     


    by Danny Cardwell on Fri, 01/11/2019 - 7:03pm

    Danny, I'm sorry I had to be so harsh but your comment denigrating people you don't know didn't seem very Christian or even fair. Your story of your redemption impressed me because so many criminals, especially drug thugs, are unable to change their lives and become productive citizens but now you seem to have a beam in your eye and have taken the low road unfairly judging people for some imagined mote in theirs.

    I was very fortunate to have seen and heard MLK speak  and he made a deep impression on  a boy from Montgomery especially his plea that people should be judged as individuals for their actions not as members of some tribal or political group and that applies to all people or they are denied  their place in humanity possessing some divinity no matter what their faults. 

    You know my name and I can only believe I know yours so your quip about fake identity is a weak diversion. If you have some facts that contradict what Trump has done that benefits all Americans including minorities please list them.


    by Peter (not verified) on Sat, 01/12/2019 - 12:18pm

    Peter? I don't know you. Your assertion that I don't know Trump supporters couldn't be more wrong. I live in the heart of the Blue Ridge Confederacy. These are my neighbors. I have seen a lot of their vitriol in person. 

    Sorry for confusing you with one of the people who has done the sort of thing I thought you were doing. I have the screen grabs and have approached people over their cowardice.

    Since we know each other so well, why don't you meet me for coffeee? If you are following me on social media, allow me the courtesy of knowing  who you are.

    I don't hide who I am. I am a real person. I don't argue with ghost. I still wish you and yours all the best!

    Have a great day!

     


    by Danny Cardwell on Sat, 01/12/2019 - 1:13pm

    Danny, thank you for the invitation but I live in NM. I wish we could meet for I might learn something more about you, explain who I am and why your comment troubled me so. I'm a retired technician/small businessman who supported liberal/left ideas for most of my life and even voted for Obama, but only once.  I've never belonged to either party and only completely rejected the dem party in 2010. The globalist/neo-Marxist agenda the democrat party and some of the republican party have embraced is too dangerous and deadly anti-American and even anti-human.

    I never could have imagined someone like Trump, with all his warts, who I've never liked would become the agent of change that would lead us off of the road to perdition we were accelerating down and redirect us to a possible better future.

    You know some people in your area just as I know some people in mine but projecting their biases or bigotry onto millions of Trump voters is unfair and wrong. I think that people who are bigots harm their own soul more than anyone they blame for their problems and this is true for others who use the same group metrics to cast stones at people they don't personally know especially for political.partisan reasons.


    by Peter (not verified) on Sat, 01/12/2019 - 5:53pm

    Trump cannot lead us out of anything because he is a racist. If you support Trump, you support a racist. He shows contempt for black and brown babies at the border. His party stole a Gubernatorial election in Georgia by suppressing black votes. Republicans tried coups in Wisconsin and Michigan when they lost Gubernatorial races. I think your rationale for supporting Trump is crap. Repeated polling documented that social anxiety was more important than economics when it came to voting for Trump.

    Trump wants a dictatorship. Read “How Democracies Die” to learn how Trump’s behavior is identical to that of authoritarians. You come with name calling. You refuse to post links to back up your statements. You always have alternative facts. The last thing we need is Trump. The fact that he is a Putin puppet does not seem to bother you. 

    Trump has his foot on the accelerator leading us into perdition. He only governs for his supporters. He enjoys the suffering that he leaves in his wake. He needs to resign.


    by rmrd0000 on Sat, 01/12/2019 - 11:01pm

    Your comment almost sounds to me like you'd like it if Peter lapsed back into hate rhetoric, like you'd prefer that, that he would provide a foil for role play. Like you are baiting him to lapse back into name calling so you can practice tribal fighting: us vs. them.


    by artappraiser on Sat, 01/12/2019 - 11:46pm

    I can’t bait Peter into anything. Peer is an adult who does what he desires. 


    by rmrd0000 on Sun, 01/13/2019 - 1:46am

    Some refreshingly clear and honest sounding communication from you, Peter; I am gobsmacked.

    Like music, Danny appears to have a rare talent to soothe the savage ranting robotic breast, it's like he should be running for president.


    by artappraiser on Sat, 01/12/2019 - 11:40pm

    On content, do you really believe all the serious collateral economic damage of his tariff games and shut down affecting 800,000 are like necessary disruption, and that more closed borders nationalism, that all of that has to occur for the U.S. and the world to get better?


    by artappraiser on Sat, 01/12/2019 - 11:50pm

    Trump is playing a serious game of hardball with China and the anti-American snowflakes some of whom are partying in Puerto Rico while the shutdown disrupts the lives of people they supposedly represent. Both of these conflicts are vital to national security, economic stability and future prosperity. Trump sits in the WH ready to make a deal while these clowns masquerading as leaders party and play politics, not to serve Americans but their own petty political agendas. While another larger caravan is growing in Honduras Schumer and Pelosi  smirk and point fingers drink fine wine and I wouldn't doubt in private say 'let them eat cake'. It's amazing how transparently corrupt and detached they are behaving.


    by Peter (not verified) on Sun, 01/13/2019 - 1:06pm

    The caravans are not a threat to national security.

    Te wall is implausible 

    Trump would have to use eminent domain to steal land from Texans to build a wall that would offer zero protection.

    Trump’s tariffs are harming the economy

    All your rationales fall flat.

    More importantly, it appears that Trump is a Russian puppet

    Edit to add:

    The wall is ineffective. A third tunnel under the wall was found in Arizona 

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/border-issues/2019/01/11/third-drug-tunnel-one-month-found-nogales/2550685002/

     

     


    by rmrd0000 on Sun, 01/13/2019 - 2:50pm

    I'll give you credit for being a consistent ideologically possessed parrot. You may not be aware that even Obama's HS head is saying that you are wrong and that the criminals, terrorists and other aliens that attempt to cross our southern border are a real threat. Land that is needed for the wall is paid for under eminent domain so you are lying when you claim it is stolen.

    The costs of not fighting the trade war with China have already harmed the US economy and a fair trade deal with China may help us avoid a real war. There is no evidence that tariffs have significantly harmed the US economy but they have added to existing problems in some agricultural sectors. With our booming economy and China's weakening economy we are in the best position and time possible to correct these unfair imbalances and prosper in the future. The appeasement and weakness of the past leadership damaged our economy but Trump is correcting those weakling mistakes. There was a recent report by a Chinese economist, that was quickly suppressed internally, but translated and published outside China that claimed their  GDP was actually growing less than 2% not the 6+% claimed by the Party. They are facing stagnation and falling investment and desperately need export growth so Trump's trade team's timing was perfect for a positive resolution of the trade war in our favor.

    Parroting false claims about Trump and Russia that even the corrupt FBI already discredited just makes you look like a confused fool.


    by Peter (not verified) on Sun, 01/13/2019 - 3:28pm

    You are delusional. If you can back up anything that you say, post a link. Homeland Security cant find the 4K people Huckabee Sanders said crossed the border.

    Trump had to pay farmers for revenue lost because of the tariffs. So much for your lie that people haven’t been hurt. Even craft brewers are feeling the pain. Because of Trump’s shutdown, the farmers can’t receive their payments.

    On Russia, Ill simply point you to the humiliating press conference Trump had with Putin in Helsinki.

    The more you post your distortions and lies, the more ridiculous you appear. 

    BTW, calling people snowflakes and commies is a decision you make. You are an adult. No one forces you to name call. That venom spews forth from your brain. You really want Trump as dictator and you don’t care that he is a racist.

    Edit to add:

    The WaPo on Trump and Russia

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/here-are-18-reasons-why-trump-could-be-a-russian-asset/2019/01/13/45b1b250-174f-11e9-88fe-f9f77a3bcb6c_story.html?utm_term=.612609a727ac

     

     

     


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 01/14/2019 - 12:45am

    RM on Trump as Russian asset, link:

    It's been obvious since well before the election that Trump is a Russian spy.  Not just an "asset" - an agent.  He's been bought many times over via the money he's made in money laundering, and he's such a fool that there's no way that he has not fatally compromised himself.....For Christ's sake, a middle-aged hard-edged sex worker took him for $130,000 without even trying. This is a guy who can't keep his dick in pants. Think what the most nefarious intelligence agency in the world could have tempted him with....

    The only reason everyone hasn't reached this conclusion is that they're afraid to admit that the Greatest Nation on Earth with the Greatest Constitution in the HIstory of the World was co-opted so easily.


    by NCD on Sun, 01/13/2019 - 3:53pm

    We finally earned our "exceptionalist" spurs. Just not in a good way.


    by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 01/13/2019 - 4:09pm

    Americans are not united on whether a wall should or should not be built. The polling clearly shows that a majority of Americans do not want a wall built on the southern border. So it seems clear to me that democrats are serving the majority of Americans. You and other republicans are left telling the lie that Americans want a wall and ranting that the polling data is fake news. You'd rather spin your lies than face the truth, a majority of Americans do not want a wall.

    Republicans want to play this stupid game of declaring some Americans "real" and other Americans not "real." The fact is we are all real Americans whether we live in the city or in rural areas. I was born in America to parents who were American citizens who were born in America and all my grandparents were American citizens who were born in America. I have to go back to some of my great grandparents to find immigrants who were naturalized citizens who weren't born in America. I was a real American when I grew up in a rural area. I was still a real American when I moved to the city. And now that I again live in a rural area I'm just as much a real American. This real American doesn't want a wall built on the southern border. I don't want a compromise that gets it built.


    by ocean-kat on Sun, 01/13/2019 - 3:24pm

    Your narrative may apply. What will you test the limits of that story with to make sure it is true?

    None of the opposition to your favored narratives interests you. You have dismissed them by default. Or maybe that is the wrong description. You are only interested in a very narrow description of what is happening. So if someone does not read that back to you as what is happening, it does not exist.

    You are safe. Nothing you think will hurt you. And if something emerges that challenges your security, you will have a chance to adjust. You will be good, no matter what happens.


    by moat on Sun, 01/13/2019 - 9:09pm

    Peter you said the following 

    Trump is playing a serious game of hardball with China and the anti-American snowflakes some of whom are partying in Puerto Rico while the shutdown disrupts the lives of people they supposedly represent.

    I wondered where you got that information because you refuse to post links to support your statements. It turns out that what you posted was a lie Nancy Pelosi has been in D.C. not in Puerto Rico. Fox’s Jennie Pirromadmits her mistake.

    “During my exclusive interview with Pres Trump I said Speaker Pelosi was in Puerto Rico with a bunch of her Democrat colleagues,” she wrote. “I based that on numerous reports that turned out to be wrong. The Speaker’s office says she has been in DC all weekend and I take them at their word.”

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jeanine-pirro-nancy-pelosi_us_5c3c0cd4e4b0e0baf53ea2d0

     

    You need to post links so that your nonsense can be more rapidly refuted. It becomes tiresome correcting you.

     

     


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 01/14/2019 - 8:26am

    RM, I don't know what I can do to help you with your poor reading skills because you seem to be a victim of California's deteriorated postmodern education system. Links won't help you If you read ' snowflakes some of whom' as 'Pelosi'. FYI Pelosi spent her shutdown vacation partying in Hawaii not PR. I did make an error in my comment, the Obama official I referred to was the head of the Border Patrol not HS.

    Another example of this corruption and detachment was reported yesterday about the California legislators who were partying with PG&E executives in Hawaii during the horrible tragic fires last year.


    by Peter (not verified) on Mon, 01/14/2019 - 12:59pm

    Links would provide clarity to your bizarre posts. 

    You rant about Pelosi, but McConnell is the Senate Majority leader. Who decided to send Senators home? McConnell!

    Your exact words were

    Trump is playing a serious game of hardball with China and the anti-American snowflakes some of whom are partying in Puerto Rico while the shutdown disrupts the lives of people they supposedly represent.

    Where is the connection to Obama?

    Edit to add:

    I knew I’d find the lie. There was a performance of “Hamilton”. It was a fundraiser for the relief effort.

    The first performance on Friday night of the Tony-winning musical at the Centro de Bellas Artes in the heart of the island’s capital city be­tokened one of the most extraordinary events in the history of the nation’s performing arts. Here was a show arriving not merely to entertain, but also to serve a humanitarian mission: raising money for the relief effort. But the quest was also to draw the world’s attention to an American outpost that has long felt neglected by the country that owns it, and especially so in the aftermath of a disaster that traumatized the island.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/theater_dance/an-emotional-opening-for-hamilton-in-puerto-rico--not-just-for-lin-manuel-miranda-but-an-island-still-reeling-from-a-storm/2019/01/12/22da5900-1540-11e9-b6ad-9cfd62dbb0a8_story.html?utm_term=.c5c300ff3253

    While you rage about the Democrats, you are silent on the theft of votes in Georgia and the attempted legislative coups by Republicans in Wisconsin and Michigan. 

    There is nothing I, or anyone else, can do to change your willingness to support the Republican criminal enterprise.

    Edit to add # 2

    I can’t read your mind. Pirro was falsely stating that Pelosi was in Puerto Rico. You were actually ranting about a humanitarian aid trip. Post links so I can know which delusions your rants are about.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     


    by rmrd0000 on Mon, 01/14/2019 - 2:01pm

    Peter, you say that you dislike bigots, yet you support Donald Trump. Trump is a bigot. 

    Senator Tim Scott acknowledges that the GOP is considered racist. Many others admit that the GOP fails to address the bigots in their ranks. Babies are being kidnapped under the GOP banner. The GOP is suppressing minority votes. They voted tax cuts for the wealthy. What greater good is happening that causes you to defend these atrocities?


    by rmrd0000 on Sun, 01/13/2019 - 1:54am

    What part of NM?  I’m a Charger (high school) and a Lobo (college).


    by Michael Maiello on Sun, 01/13/2019 - 7:11pm

    I've lived in Los Lunas for the last 15 years and the South Valley before that. Both my son and ex are UNM alumni while I attended TVI. Go Lobos! 


    by Peter (not verified) on Mon, 01/14/2019 - 1:13am


    by Michael Maiello on Mon, 01/14/2019 - 2:21pm

    The Trump supporters I talk to focus on abortion. They all agree that Trump is crass. Most maintain that Hillary would have been much worse. One is still waiting for Hillary to be charged with a crime. He also believes in the Deep State. The most scary thing is that there is a lack of facts. They are unaware that the debt went up under Reagan. The will cite inaccurate data, like Peter. People will dig themselves out of the Rump cult. There is nothing we can say to convert them.


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 01/11/2019 - 8:16pm