MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Distrust of Medical Industrial Complex
To be clear: Getting vaccinated is probably the best shot we all have at protecting ourselves and each other from this horrific virus. Modern vaccines are a medical miracle, and I know I’ll be getting vaccinated as soon as I possibly can, for two simple reasons: I don’t want to get covid-19, and I don’t want to spread the disease to anyone else.
But I have heard from Black friends and family members who say they don’t want to take a coronavirus vaccine. Some have misgivings about whether a vaccine produced so fast would be safe; others say they don’t trust pharmaceutical companies to be transparent about risks. They aren’t alone. A September survey by the nonprofit COVID Collaborative found that fewer than half of Black people said they would definitely or probably take a vaccine made available at no charge. Just 14 percent said they trusted it would be safe. A Pew Research Center poll, also from September, illuminated the stark difference in attitudes by race: It found that 32 percent of Black adults would definitely or probably take a vaccine when available, compared with 52 percent of Whites and 56 percent of Hispanics
Comments
Suspicion of the medial profession has a basis in hitory
Actual bias continues toady
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/24/health-care-system-has-failed-black-americans-no-wonder-many-are-hesitant-about-vaccine/
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 11/24/2020 - 8:54pm
There is distrust of the medical establishment in communities that got experimented on during the 20th century. There is a book called Medical Apartheid that details in full medical experimentation on African Americans. There's also a recent book called Asperger's Children that points the dots between the diagnosing of young children in the 1990s and 2000s right back to the Nazi regime. The distrust is there and people who act like people who have that distrust are insane are really just reinforcing the idea that there's a medical establishment that is poised to categorize people as defective.
by Orion on Tue, 11/24/2020 - 10:57pm
Thanks
I'm familiar with the book. As the article notes the memory of the Tuskeegee experiment remains today
Multiple recent studies show Blacks receive inferior healthcare even after correcting for income and insurance
Black pregnancy mortality is higher
Serena Williams and Beyoncé both had postpartum complications that were initially ignored by their physicians
The American Medical Association has realized structural racism as a health risk.
Black medical associations and medical schools are participating in vaccine trials to encourage greater community participation
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 11/24/2020 - 11:11pm
The Black Lives Matter movement also has taken on monuments to eugenicists out here in California. That's something Jewish groups were able to do in Europe but took a little longer here.
by Orion on Tue, 11/24/2020 - 11:49pm
The so-called father of gynecology in the United States had no problem experimenting on slaves.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 11/24/2020 - 11:56pm
Exactly. Planned Parenthood also has a less than stellar origin. Eugenics was serious stuff.
by Orion on Wed, 11/25/2020 - 1:42am
So who's for babies with life debilitating birth defects being born rather than screening for the very worst diseases in the womb and aborting?
That's being pure about eugenics.
I watched a newborn born blind and screaming from brain hemorrhaging for several weeks because the doctors missed the problems in the womb. Baby fortunately probably died a few weeks later rather than a thoroughly horrid life with incurable problems.
Sub-Saharan Africa is estimated to have 1/3 the world population by year 2100, yet so far its economy really really sucks, and it's largely unable to overcome economic and technical problems that the rest of the world has under control. Less than 80 years to figure it out, and the babies being born now will largely be alive then - with likely far fewer resources available than the rest of the humans on earth, and inevitable a conflict over "fairness" -shouldn't everyone have equal access, except shouldn't every country manage its own birth rate sensibly?
To be fair, a number of African countries *do* have their growth rate under control - but countries like Nigeria guarantee that there will be a disaster. To promote the serious birth control and access to abortion like that that's been "adopted" (sorry) by most of the rest of the world the last 40-60 years may be seen by some purists as "eugenics" against Black Africa, but it's also rather a hope to avoid more scenes like the 1970 Bangladesh famines, or just ingrained poverty that just makes suffering drag on and on, and overpopulates cities into polluted, unhealthy, unpleasant places to live. Where's those next-gen institutions thatn can let new African population economically grow through its population boom, unlike China which controlled its population while investing in education & tech capabilities with its infamous self-eugenic "1 child policy"? Get ready for a disaster.
So that "eugenics" that Sanger supported was during the Great Depression, and sought to give women the decision of how many children they wanted to have - the same kind-of-tough but largely necessary decision that every backwards rural region has had to come to grips with. Where women *didn't* get a grip on both the birth and the turnaround of their economy, such as the famed "Black Belt" of Alabama, you have largely uneducated, impoverished people today. Where they did, they grew to have more of a middle-class existence, with more resources for the children they did have, and less panic and suffering from normal life issues.
Yeah, the right hates that Margaret Sanger for promoting responsible conception to all races, even blacks. And the left has adopted their smears to use for purity purposes as well, even though women of all races were largely the prey of men's decisions, and had no property ownership nor real right to sue, and had barely gotten the right to vote in 1920. So yeah, let's label normal birth control, including contraception and less-desirably abortion (even though we've had chemical abortions for decades, we like to make it hard to come by). And let's not put a name for "women forced to have more children than they want or can handle because assholes close abortion and family planning clinics across their states" - is that better than eugencis? Sure as fuck doesn't sound like it to me.
PS - and fuck yeah, Margaret Sanger talked to the KKK - because those motherfuckers go home and get their wives or girlfriends pregnant too, and birthing fewer racist shitheads is in all of our interest, no? Guess not - when people get their purity hairshirts on, they stop thinking right.
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/uploads/filer_public/37/fd/37fdc7b6-de...
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 11/26/2020 - 2:46pm
Apparently the competition for the Darwin Awards is going to be particularly fierce in 2021. Keep us updated.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 11/25/2020 - 11:50am
More than usual? By what standard?
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 11/25/2020 - 11:59am
I get what he's saying there and agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment. Makes me think of a phrase Spiro Agnew used which wasn't accurate at the time for the reason he was using it but applies: nattering nabobs of negativism. Is why I complained a while back about how certain news gathering methods and approaches can be used to paint a depressing fearful picture that isn't real. i.e. look at how awful things are for this particular community over and over and over and over in so many ways, surely they will get worse, be afraid, be very afraid, we are all afraid, everything is so awful here's the umpteenth example of how bad it can get, only doom ahead, woe is us, get outraged. A little ridicule of that now and then can break the spell. It's actually a quite racist spell, in this case. I.E. all black people are afraid of vaccines. And you show it to the homey black neighbor and they go: say what?huh? puhleez, ancient history!
by artappraiser on Wed, 11/25/2020 - 1:22pm
Blacks not taking the vaccine because of the very real medical horrors of the past would be in way similar to women looking at the eugenic past of Planned Parenthood and deciding they'd rather use a coat hanger. Yeah, that's a more extreme example but still.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 11/25/2020 - 1:32pm
How about this other angle to question how warped this perspective is for current times: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has been "afraid of vaccines" very vocally for decades now. And if anyone in our society has privilege, it's someone with that last name. Don't have stats to prove it, but I'd be willing to bet that the anti-vaxxer crowd of people of all colors with college+ education are going to be a much bigger problem here than "blacks", whatever "blacks" means.
by artappraiser on Wed, 11/25/2020 - 2:00pm
Yes, for me Kennedy and his college+ followers are a mystery. When I first read about Wakefield I leaned towards believing him. He's a doctor and a medical researcher and it's not uncommon to find dangerous side effects from chemicals. I considered it likely to be true. But when the peer reviews of his work came out they didn't just find flaws in his methodology. He actively manipulated the data and lied. It wasn't just poorly done research it was an active fraud. The peer review is always the most important part of research. I rejected Wakefield and everything he claimed right then and I don't get why everyone with a college level of science didn't, hell why any decent high school level of science knowledge didn't reject the whole story line. Then because of the persistence of the nonsense several studies were done to specifically try to find a link between vaccines and autism and none where found. And still these college+ educated people clung to the widely discredited theory.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 11/25/2020 - 2:23pm
I think I just skimmed past the whole point the thread, maybe got sidetracked by level of comments - please ignore my question.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 11/25/2020 - 3:53pm
Questions arise about the AstroZeneca vaccine
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/business/coronavirus-vaccine-astrazeneca-oxford.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 11/25/2020 - 5:07pm
The above is great info and I appreciate the sharing of it.
But seriously on your other comment-"lol". I just feel I must say that personally find it quite racist and offensive to ask a question like "Will blacks take the COVID vaccine?"
Are you including when you ask that question Barack & Michelle Obama, my niece with an MBA and her 1 yr. old baby boy, my sister-in-law (who works with Covid patients in L.A.! and who has an injured ankle right now from helping to move a 300 lb. one who later died?) And my dear artist friend who taught Ivy League courses and travelled the world? You think they are that stupid? They are to be included with people with black skin who still fear the Jim Crow south?
The Attiah piece is racist enough, and you pile on. Depicting all blacks as dumb hapless victims. Bad enough all poor on Medicaid are treated as stupid. You have to make it racist too. It's tough for anyone in this country to get decent health care! We have a lousy overloaded system! It's extra tough on Medicaid getting decent health care, you really have to have extra smarts to get good providers instead of quacks, since the reimbursement is so low. There's tons of doctor-caused illness of many kinds. This is not just about race.
Yes, people need to worry about the quality of the vaccines, all people need to spend as much time on the lousy health care we get as best they can. We do have a terrible medical industrial complex and we all need to worry about it.
Unlike you, though, I am willing to tolerate talking to someone who is quite racist. At the same time, I'm getting real tired of tolerating a lot of the racist stuff you post without speaking up about it, because it's offensive to me and mine.
by artappraiser on Wed, 11/25/2020 - 6:37pm
AA, the link included data from two polls of the Black community about the willingness to take the vaccine.
Black healthcare officials are working to combat the skepticism
The differences in how physicians treat Black patients is acknowledged by recent studies.
Talking to the triumvirate is an exercise in futility
I don't care what any of you think
I receive encouragement from organizations like the American Medical Association that recognize structural racism.
I will leave you to continue the conversation among yourselves.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 11/25/2020 - 6:48pm
"Talking to the triumvirate"
If by chance three of us agree it's a triumvirate. And we know if it's just PP it's a dictatorship. But what is it when 2 agree and 1 disagrees? And if the one isn't PP what is it? Inquiring minds want a clear hierarchy of the way the ruling class works here.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 11/25/2020 - 7:33pm
It's just an excuse when he's called out on what his routine is really about. Can't take the cognitive dissonance when his (imaginary) tribe is challenged.
If he can't handle three people challenging him he certainly couldn't handle a graduate school seminar.
I don't always have the time or desire to challenge, but as I said before, it can get insidious reading him all the time, one starts to go along with his stereotypes and agendas. The only way to right oneself after spending too much time reading his stuff or even arguing about it is to go talk to any other black person and find out it's most bullshit you are buying into. And sometimes the racism of what he posts just gets to me as too much.
ALL JUST MHO, THIS ONE PERSON, NOT PART OF ANY TRIUMVIRATE.I in no way know what oceankat and Peracles are going to say on any one thing or another.
I give a lot of credit to oceankat especially in being able to put aside his own politics (which are rightfully private but I suspect to the left of me) to honestly try to help others with different politics analyze things together. It shouldn't really matter what your politics are to try to figure out the truth of what's going on as a communal project.
I challenge everyone reading to post more content on this site so there is VARIETY. But I am not going to beg people; it's not my site. I post what I post because I like to read news over time and analyze over time and my Twitter is professional so I don't want to clutter it with regular news and politics and don't want people to know my leanings. I honestly wouldn't care that much if anyone was looking at it, it's a great place to collate and collect news, Michael keeps it working well.
by artappraiser on Wed, 11/25/2020 - 8:11pm
That term you use, "the black community", that is a racist term, it presumes all people with black skin live segregated together or at least all think alike and have each other's back, don't trust people with other skin colors.
Why not just say what you really mean: blacks that live in segregated inner cities or ghetto and can't afford to travel much outside of that bubble?
Cause see, all my relatives and friends with black skin live lives integrated with people of other colors. Strange that in mixing with others, while they still suffer some racism from racists (like you, for example, who presumes they belong in this one culturally segregated "black community" because they have the same skin color) they don't seem to feel they have as much trouble achieving goals in life.
And as none of them live in segregated poor communities, they have lots of input and support on how to navigate our sucky health care system (full of doctors that make all kinds of faulty judgments about patients because they do not have time to get to know them and their history) and hopefully (cross fingers, it's still always iffy) can game it to their benefit. And as none are on Medicaid and all are insured, they have more opportunity to do that gaming than your average poor person does whether black in the segregated inner city with lousy hospitals or in a poor white in a rural town in West Virginia with the closest hospital hundreds of miles away.
by artappraiser on Wed, 11/25/2020 - 7:39pm
I was willing to walk away, but then you posted crap.
Blacks with money and insurance are still more likely to receive a lower level of health care.
I gave the example of Serena Williams. Her postpartum complaints were dismissed
You are free to rant away and expose your biases
Fortunately, out in the real world, medical organizations are willing to face structural racism
Both the Institute of Medicine and the American Medical Association are targeting bias and racism
https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/patient-support-advocacy/reducing-disparities-health-care
The American Medical Association recognizes racism as a public health threat
https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/health-equity/ama-racism-threat-public-health
I will use the data supplied by the IOM and AMA over the personal bias and anecdotes supplied by AA
Edit to add:
Upward mobility is not protective
https://psmag.com/social-justice/even-as-black-americans-get-richer-their-health-outcomes-remain-poor
Again, fact over AA opinion
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 11/26/2020 - 2:48am
What's the "fact"? That middle class blacks still suffer worse health because they're isolated & unhappy among white people and get tokenism/micro-aggressions?
As a famous black philosopher said, "Don't worry, be happy!" He's busy touring the world making music in stuffy white-dominant orchestras and such - don't know how his health at 70 is holding up.
That Vietnamese kid i knew who spent a year hiking across Cambodia to freedom seemed happy enough. I mean, conditions in Communist Vietnam in the 80s (pre-calutalist reforms) were extremely rough and repressive, and the dictatorship in Cambodia wiped out a million of its own people through mass exterminations and work camps. But I guess American suburbs and offices are pretty rough going. Kind of a full-time psychological warfare.
Re: Serena, she's a woman - doctors often dismiss the complaints of women. 1 in 7 women suffer postpartum depression, 1 in 10 have something else. But it's not enough to be a woman - have to be a black woman or an LGBT woman or some other marginal class. Even being a supermodel doesn't help much it seems.
https://www.vogue.com/article/serena-williams-motherhood-postpartum-diso...
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 11/26/2020 - 3:25am
Keep posting
You prove my point
Edit to add:
It is a joke to you, which is fine. Nothing to be concerned about because others are attempting to change the situation.
Someone said, "Lead, follow, or get out of the way." You are so insignificant that you can hold your position and let others do the work.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 11/26/2020 - 9:09am
Carry on, Mama-san Tereza
Even us Insignificants salute your inestimable service to humanity.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 11/26/2020 - 10:08am
While you yammer on, there are organizations working to combat suspicions about the vaccine and addressing structural racism in medicine.
At least you do recognize your insignificance on this issue.
Thanks for playing.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 12:33am
Good point, there's more than one way to play oppression Olympics with medicine Why don't doctors trust women? Because they don't know much about us. You can do it with voting too: 15th Amendment-1870; 19th Amendment-1920, 50 years difference! I never thought about it before but now I will: when they finally pay reparations for building this country, how much do I get for my female forbears reproducing and raising the next generations without civil rights and pay? We are a majority, so all of this is gonna get real expensive for the white males.
Back to medicine.People really don't get how primitive it still is and how little they know until they really get sick.Often enough even the wealthy don't get better from it, they just get more of it.
by artappraiser on Thu, 11/26/2020 - 11:03am
Your rambling post has nothing to do with differences in care not being impacted by economic or insurance level.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 12:29am
If you weren't so busy mansplainin'/blackesplainin' all the time, you might realize she has likely the most researched and personal experience with healthcare here, so has something useful to say, even if we lower ourselves to discuss *women* without splitting that tribe/gender.. But you do you.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 1:40am
Not mansplaining. Simply providing data that verifies a racial difference. She has a blind spot.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 10:01am
Yeah, yeah, her ivory tower in the Bronx.
Maybe work on that beam in your eye...
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 1:43pm
I was on Medicaid for two years recently. Medicaid in the Bronx. (It was what Obamacare gave me using IRS data as it unfairly does.) Won't get into specifics, let's just say I had three MRI's during that time. Wasn't a picnic navigating that system and seeing what I saw. It was pretty damn nightmarish out there and that was before Covid.
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 1:56pm
[meta off thread] What is it that so attracts you do about getting into ad hominen more than actual argument. You are always trying to make a forum of pseudonymous people into two teams, "us against them", like a bar room brawl with insults. One side posts the good stories and you root for them and the other side you insult and dismiss. Sort of reminds me of a certain president who accomplishes zero, it's all about "us vs. them". Little interest in content unless you post it yourself, more into rooting for team members, making fans or enemies.
We probably vote for the same people and have similar interest in content. But you seem driven to insult me and you don't even know my name.
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 2:05pm
What is interesting is you are one of the least likely people here to insult someone. I'm much more ready to go there if I get pissed though I still believe I'm mostly retaliatory. rmrd tends to go there just because you posted an article that disagrees with him.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 2:34pm
It doesn't bother me personally, and if you and PP hurl "fuck you" at each other here and there it's no big deal But what he is doing is a stupid childish game that ruins forums, I've seen the latter happen more than once, caring more about role playing A team vs. B team than the actual issues. You would think people would learn from what Trump has done to this country. He doesn't insult people with nicknames because he actually disagrees with them, nope, it's all about role play, i.e. "little Marco". He's decided he is going to make a team with rmrd and fight against the bully triumvirate, you see? It's not about issues, he's going to be rmrd's protector no matter what rmrd says.
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 2:56pm
Excellent article on whether ethnic minorities should have priority in receiving the COVID vaccine
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/10/2/21493933/covid-19-vaccine-black-latino-priority-access
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 1:02am
Certainly to be fair it should all go to Sub-Saharan Africa to deal with historical disparities. Even US blacks are a pampered class comparatively.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 1:42am
We are discussing distribution in the United States.
You have nothing of value to offer so you do distraction
Keep doing you.
There are efforts to confront distrust of the vaccine
There are organizations combating structural racism in healthcare
There are debates about where the black community fits in in the priority level in vaccine distribution
Fortunately, neither PP or AA have role in these important activities
I'll turn the discussion back over to you two
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 10:09am
This is all about how we choose to separate the population and gather data. We choose to look at disparities by race often in the US even if that's not the primary determining factor. If we separate the population by race blacks are more susceptible to the virus. But if we choose to separate by age the elderly are more susceptible.From everything I've read age more that race determines a person's susceptibility to covid. If we focus on blacks we'll be giving a lot of vaccines to young blacks that aren't likely to get sick. Most likely the most effective means of slowing the virus and saving lives would be to ignore race and give it to people above a certain age first.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 11:38am
Same thing with saying people with black skin get worse health care. Um, a higher percentage of people with black skin are poor and are on Medicaid. Most people on Medicaid get shitty health care. It's just more racism on its face. The AAM is doing the same stupid racist thing many institutions are. It's all bullshit happy talk to show preference for the hot color of skin du jour, as most poor people will still get shitty health care and most black people will still be poor. Is not going to solve anything.
The only result from what the AAM IS doing is a few good doctors who have some racism issues will think again and have a better attitude towards black patients with good health insurance. Poor blacks will still be highly likely to get exceptionally poor medical care, just like homeless and mentally ill people of all colors, poor whites, hispanics and Asians.
Dragging in an example of a wealthy black celeb getting poor maternity care proves nothing, doesn't prove that doesn't happen to other wealthy women as well. Accessing medical care in this country is dangerous, you have to be a highly informed consumer to have a chance of getting a good outcome. Even then, make the wrong choices and you're dead, look at Steve Jobs for one example.
It's racist. It's reinforcing the idea that people with black skin are physically different. When in reality, the main problem is that more people with black skin are poor.
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 1:01pm
correction to the above: AMA, not AAM
(I've got American Association of Museums on my mind cause similar shit going on there.)
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 3:17pm
Maybe we should be asking if South Dakotans will take the vaccine:
by artappraiser on Fri, 11/27/2020 - 3:32pm