The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age

    Don't go Al

    By Flavius on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 7:02am |

    Franken should assume all the accusations are honest and should  call each of the women  and apologize.  Some one -not his wife- should be  present  listening which he should tell each of the woman at the beginning  of the call.

    No recording of course.

    He shouldn't announce he's doing it. Just do it. Telling them  he d prefer them not to publicize the call but that was up to them.

    And then get on with the rest of his life. In the Senate.

     

     

     

    Comments

    Franken is resigning

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/al-franken-resigning_us_5a0db8dce4b0b17e5e14a229?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009


    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 12:07pm

    Damn!


    by Flavius on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 12:09pm

    Now Kirsten Gillibrand, D-NY, and all the Democrats have sent a message to America, they can, with clear consciences, work with Trump and Roy Moore to acquiesce in liquidating what's left of our democracy.

    One of the only fighting Dems has been dispensed with.


    by NCD on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 12:37pm

    I'm sure Alabama will appreciate the move and now vote Democrat. Or note that Dems are pervs and vote the righteous God-fearing judge into office.

    I'm sure the GOP will now look to clean up their own backyard. Or use this to ram down the nation's throat to avoid losing a single seat in 2018.

    YMMV.


    by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 12:54pm

    Not one Trump or Moore supporter was swayed by this capitulation.

    Edit to add:

    When Bill Clinton was accused, the Congressional Black Caucus still backed him. Franken had no support in Congress. His voters were dismissed.

    https://partners.nytimes.com/library/politics/091398clinton-blacks.html


    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 12:59pm

    So it's done. Two conclusions: there is need for national  legislation establishing a system of rational  adjudication of claims of sexual  harassment .   And Congress should deal with the question  whether that complements or replaces the franchise of the do-it-yourself ethics committees .

    It's a  legitimate question whether the standards for our legislators should be the same as for the rest of us mortals. In 2016 the voters provided some indication that they wanted  whomever they wanted.   Who's to say they were wrong?


    by Flavius on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 1:21pm

    Newt Gingrich is defending Franken’s rights

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/al-franken-republican-defenders_us_5a29530fe4b03ece03008f5f?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

    ​Edit to add:

    Franken notes the irony that he is leaving while Trump and Moore have Support.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/al-franken-ironic-im-leaving-when-trump-roy-moore-have-support

    ​Democrats may have set up a scenario where a Republican could capture the seat

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/heres-why-democrats-forced-al-franken-to-do-the-right-thing-and-why-they-may-come-to-regret-it


    by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 1:50pm

    My favorite senator, for sure.

    I guess he was a 'grabber'?

    But the time is right.

    Now of course Moore and Trump will resign forthwith!

    ha


    by Richard Day on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 4:20pm

    Franken out, the Royatollah in?


    by NCD on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 6:28pm

    I just gotta say, Al Franken's old job was as a comedian truth-teller. I'll bet he has a whole bunch of new stories to tell that a lot of politicians might not like to hear.


    by wabby on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 7:58pm

    Yeah, Al unleashed may be a marvel to behold - hope he can channel biting anger appropriately. At one point I held out hope for Alan Grayson carving out a few assholes. Stuart Smalley can meet Slim Shady for the next round of political fun. First Lying Liar? Bill O'Reilly - he's always fun. But Roger Stone has to be next. Trump himself? M'boy. And then there's Roy - what wouldn't a comedian like about doing that guy. Now we get to romp among the token conservative female posse called the Fox henhouse - aka Queens of the Stone Age. How does one survive a total sexual harassment meltdown with 100's of millions paid out, and then turn around and do cleavage jokes is part of a round table? I'm sure what ailes Fox goes deeper than that, and Al should be ready to take it on - where comic relief imitates life.


    by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 8:21pm

    I think you over estimate the power of comedy in general and Franken in particular. He was never a hugely famous comedian and doesn't have much to unleash in that realm. He never had the stage presence to do stand up and mostly wrote for other comedians. His books sold ok but mostly to people who already agreed with him. He might have built a good political career, he was on his way, but his mildly inappropriate behavior and the times ended that. Sadly, I don't think he'll be much of an influence after he leaves congress.


    by ocean-kat on Fri, 12/08/2017 - 12:30am

    This was a mild hope/fantasy, not an expectation, though still, there's reasonable chance he figures out a good poitive way to round this bend.


    by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/08/2017 - 12:53am

    I thought you were trying to be a comedian with that nonsense comment but snowflake fantasy better describes that wishful thinking. Franken showed clearly he has gone 'round the bend' with his comments on the steps of the capitol. Now all he can do is join other bent liberals and get lost in the fading resistance. Perhaps Weinstein will have a project for him once he finishes rehab.

    by Peter (not verified) on Fri, 12/08/2017 - 11:49am

    Donald Trump

    Roy Moore

    Trent Franks

     Blake Farenthold 

    Edit to add:

    No one takes your arguments seriously. Trump’s is so bad that given white Evangelicals are looking for something better. Trump is a puppet of Vladimir Putin. He fired Comey and asked Congress to lay off Flynn because he wanted the Russia investigation terminated. He doesn’t want the public to know the extent to which he worked with the Russians. The Russians hacked the elections. The Chinese are gleefully that Trump is tearing up agreements thus giving China an upper had in Pacific trade. Trump wants war with North Korea and in the Middle East. He wants to increase taxes on the poor and the middle class. You see these things and you still shill for Donald Trump.

    Your posts make you come across as I’ll-informed at best.Your repeated use of snowflake suggests that your vocabulary is as limited as that of Donald Trump. As, I noted, your posts used to  e amusing  now it seems that you actually believe the nonsense that you post. Your arguments are worthy of pity.

    Hopefully, you will view the tapes of Trump’s nonsensical verbiage and note his slurred speech. The man is under stress and his dementia is becoming clearer by the day. Come back to your senses.


    by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/08/2017 - 1:20pm

    I try to ignore your hysteria and bile but you continue to direct your uninformed rants my way. I don't recall you ever liking my comments whether humorous, serious or mocking. You seem to live in a state of fear that generates your fantasy reality existance. Trump or Putin don't care about your kind of whiner so their not out to get you. It must be especially frustrating for you to see the Supreme Court supporting Trump's agenda and clear thinking about protecting our borders. Your support for the TPP just because Trump killed it shows you don't care about American workers of any description or are just whimpering about Obama's lost NWO legacy. I'm sure Trump is weary from the stress of being the Hegemon but his comments and tweets are crafted for maximum effect and cause much pearl clutching among the snowflakes, which they were meant to do, while rational humans get the message. To maintain your state of fear and denial you translate and redefine anything Trump says or does to fit your weak fantasies. Trump has never threatened to attack or start a war wiith NK only to respond to their threatened agression with maximum force short of Nukes. Kim withdrew his attack force heading for Guam because of these promises and now China and Russia are facing their responsibility for NK because of Trump's insistance. The pathetic Trump is impaired meme shows how defeated the weak minded snowflakes have become while their other anti-American memes fade into the dust they came from.

    by Peter (not verified) on Sat, 12/09/2017 - 12:37pm

    Oh, go ahead.  Ignore him altogether.  You can’t, you say?  I guess he does challenge you a bit after all.


    by CVille Dem on Sat, 12/09/2017 - 12:58pm

    I liked  "pearl clutching".


    by Flavius on Sat, 12/09/2017 - 4:52pm

    You're projecting again. Your posts are obviously attempts to be a comedian of the Don Rickles type. The nonsense about Weinstein was clearly meant to be the punch line of your joke post. I see you've taken my advice to return to your role as insult comedian as your few attempts to discuss policy simply revealed that you don't follow the news.


    by ocean-kat on Fri, 12/08/2017 - 1:35pm

    More Tokyo Rose than Don Rickles.


    by moat on Mon, 12/11/2017 - 8:33pm

    Yeah, he's a smart man and might find a way to be a positive influence after he leaves.


    by ocean-kat on Fri, 12/08/2017 - 4:07pm

    Like a hard core right sing holier than thou Bible thumping Republican Congressman asking his female staff if he could knock them up and then take the baby? Oh wait.....


    by NCD on Thu, 12/07/2017 - 8:47pm

    Admit I didn't think of this:

    Backlash

    The implications of sending Al Franken packing are starting to become clear on Capitol Hill. And they are troubling.

    By Elizabeth Drew @ NewRepublic.com, Dec. 13

    “You know who’s going to get hurt by this?” a member of Congress asked me recently, referring to the about-time uprising of women against predatory men. “Women.” He explained that male members of Congress are now going to be reluctant to hire a woman when they have the option of hiring a man for a job, and that very attractive women would be particularly at a disadvantage in obtaining jobs on Capitol Hill. (Buxom is out.) Self-protection, in other words, might well lead to a new form of discrimination. And this could travel beyond elected politicians, though they’re feeling especially worried now.

    Members of Congress have been speaking uneasily among themselves ever since Al Franken was drummed out of the Senate by many of his Democratic colleagues in early December. Nobody wants to talk about it on the record, but politicians in both parties and in both chambers remain disturbed by how Franken was dealt with by some of his Senate colleagues [....]


    by artappraiser on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 6:53pm

    Oh, this was obvious with the Pence rule. Dems just got there from a diff angle

    And I was also going to write about the Misfits - the adroit will find other ways to hook up, but the Misfits of either sex aren't going out on such dates or picking up people at bars, so need these day-to-day proximity encounters to improve their lot. This just made it more difficult for the outcasts. We went from "respect me, don't abuse me" to "don't look at me, don't even think abiut me" in 60 secs. Meanwhile the Sorvino and Ashley Judd examples are horrifying (if anyone seemed rip for LotR with her elfish smile it's Ashley Judd), and the Dustin Hoffman examples are disturbing. 


    by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 10:44pm

    I don't know, I guess it depends on how many men are into cheap thrills and coercion. I'm not into cheap thrills. It's not like I'm depriving myself. I imagine if I was into that I might go for it if I could get away with it. I'm not a saint. I'm into high quality expensive thrills. The kind that take time and energy. No woman will ever claim I patted her butt or grabbed her tit. Cheap thrills just aren't fun for me. I'm not into coercion. I'm not even into prostitutes which I think is almost coercion most of the time. Perhaps if I could afford a really expensive prostitute for  a whole night that was really good at pretending she was having a good time but a quickie with a whore bores me. I'm not into holding some woman down while I essentially masturbate in her. I'm into laying around and playing around for a long time while we both enjoy each other doing all the things that are normally done.

    I can't say I know much about men, are they more like me or more like Trump? There have actually been very few accusations so far. There're probably some who are guilty but haven't been mentioned but one would think if most men were going for the cheap thrills we'd have heard more. I'm not trying to minimize the problem but I'd have to guess at this point that most men aren't into the cheap thrills. So why would they be worried about hiring a woman? It wouldn't worry me at all.


    by ocean-kat on Sun, 12/17/2017 - 12:08am

    Because a) we're getting past horrid things they did to lityle things they did to what they said, which turns everything into potentially damaging material. Look at some of the "racial discrimination" trumped up payouts (not the justified ones) - if instead of rolling our eyes and paying as necessary we turn these into automatic black marks on the accused, it's a career minefield. Which has now happened.

    b) because many men aren't cads, but know attraction can lead to doing something stupid over the course of years, whether too drunk at an outing or other excuse, and if telling jokes is tossed in the mix - they can just insulate themselves with the right hire. Being an abusive boss used to be one of the accepted management styles - assholes can spur more profit, higher performance. 

    c ) btw, it should be noted HR departments have been highly complicit in say Uber's sexist excesses and discrimination. Oddly or not, often run by women.


    by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 12/17/2017 - 12:12am

    I think political situations are kinda special, it can be like with Paula Jones and Bill Clinton, and like Kathleen Willey and Bill Clinton. If it's a man that has ever fooled around (Gennifer Flowers), he's a mark for blackmail, and it's "he said, she said."

    Even without sexual harassment accusations being involved. it's one of the workplaces where mixing sex is much more dangerous than in many others. Because of: pillow talk, and power being bought and sold.

    There's also the flip side congressional tradition of the non-typing typist, like Elizabeth Ray and Wayne Hays.

    Or the first gay in Congress having an "inappropriate" relationship with an underage page..

    Then there's deals like Callista Bisek, former Agricultural Committee Clerk, having an affair with the House Speaker Gingrich while his wife had cancer. He eventually made an "honest woman" of her, and now she's our Ambassador to the Vatican.

    Or Christine Keeler and John Profumo, for that matter, where the workplace was not a concern but the other Russian spy boyfriend certainly was....

    Matalin and Carville, on the other hand, handled it well!


    by artappraiser on Sun, 12/17/2017 - 2:37am

    Oh goodie, 1st standout case of female harassing man. Of course we've never had an unfair attack of a so-called PMS office manager on some poor misunderstood dude. Nor trumped up reasons of why the woman didn't get the promotion, etc. Just that "no tolerance" standard is a double-edge axe that's going to take a lot of unintended people down with it.


    by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 12/17/2017 - 9:29am

    Paranoia grips Capitol Hill as harassment scandal spreads

    Lawmakers and aides are consumed by one question: Who's next?

    @ Politico.com, 12/17

    story really does live up to the headline, i.e., goes over the big rumors going on and names names of some already falsely accused with hoaxes, quotes about the fears of sabotaged campaigns, etc.


    by artappraiser on Sun, 12/17/2017 - 10:51pm

    I thought this song expressed the current predicament. Or at least one side...


    by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 12/18/2017 - 3:33pm

    Manchin calls on Franken to unresign

    by Adam Edelman @ NBCNews, Dec. 18

    Friends don't let friends resign from the U.S. Senate amid sexual misconduct allegations, according to Sen. Joe Manchin.

    The West Virginia Democrat said Monday that Sen. Al Franken, D-Minn., should not have announced his resignation this month and is urging him to reconsider leaving his post [.....]

    Could Al Franken un-resign? Sure.

    Analysis by Amber Phillips @ WashingtonPost.com, Dec. 18


    by artappraiser on Mon, 12/18/2017 - 2:08pm

    Tavis notes, "Dudes, you date people at work because that's where you spend all your time."

    Meanwhile Matt Damon is blasted for the outrageous thought that "because he didn’t rape somebody – so far as we know – that what he did do wasn’t as bad" - yep, those pats on the tush are every bit as damaging as a back-in-the alley rape.

    Welcome to 2017/18 where going off the rails and missing the point has never been easier.


    by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 12/19/2017 - 1:47am

    Chuckled at the Tavis piece, really is a smooth operator. I note he said this on Tucker Carlson @ Fox....if one side dumps on ya, just flip to the other...

    The Hill has a bunch of stuff up now on the makeup artist accusing Trump, including a letter from her accusing them of smearing her.

    Did you see this one from last week?: Gingrich defends Franken: 'This is purely and simply hysteria'

    The fact of all their coverage both proves and stokes the paranoia Politico reported.

    I find your comment

    Welcome to 2017/18 where going off the rails and missing the point has never been easier.

    inspiring for analysis purposes, ala "light bulb!". This is what trolls do! The mania, it is a Trump effect.. It is about poking and poking and stoking people to express grievance emotionally until the whole thing starts to look ridiculous and they hurt their own cause. He just does it by his very nature and ends up affecting everyone, including his own followers? It is like a Jerry Springer show type phenomenon, where everyone gets so riled up they start throwing chairs and forget what the topic was, acting on their own buried effects of past hurts, slights and abuses?


    by artappraiser on Tue, 12/19/2017 - 9:42am