The Bishop and the Butterfly: Murder, Politics, and the End of the Jazz Age

    What was that about the Richmond P.D. being an evil occupying force of "the black community"?

    Comments

    not to mention BBQ Becky!

    Edit to add: And don't right wing groups have freedom to assemble in Lowe's parking lots without police harassment? What would MLK say on his day? devil


    Of course they have the right to assemble but why do they have to use the big chain box stores instead of small local businesses? That's not what Trump would want. It's not the example he set with his support of the 4 Seasons Landscaping Company.


    In big white ghetto land, they like big box stores. Giuliani just wouldn't get that, he thinks bodega.


    But what's the carbon footprint of these big parking lots? There's a price to pay - and our children are paying it!!!

    #OhTheHumanity


    Oooo. . .

     

    ~OGD~


    Extra special on MLK Day


    You don't like what the Richmond police did to protect the MLK day celebrants? You were hoping to see a mano a mano clash? Street fighting man?


    Police reform does not mean rejecting the need for police

    Sending in mental health workers to try to resolve situations where mental health issues are primary is not a ridiculous idea.

    You have a concrete thought process on this issue.

    The police did their job in Richmond and that is good 

    When police are abusive, the proper response is to call police into account

     

    From MLK Jr

    The mass protest that brought Martin Luther King Jr. and some 250,000 others to the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on Aug. 28, 1963, was officially known as the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom. But within the call for freedom lay many more specific demands, one of which was articulated by Martin Luther King Jr. as part of his “I Have a Dream” speech:“We can never be satisfied,” he said, “as long as the Negro is the victim of the unspeakable horrors of police brutality.”

    https://time.com/5882308/march-on-washington-police-brutality/

    There is no point discussing this issue with you. Neither of us is going to change our position. I want police reform. You turn calls for police reform into jokes. You make comments about sending health care workers into shoot outs. No need to have further discussion with you.


    You got it backwards. There is no point preaching at me on it because you are still preaching idiocracy even with simple political matters. Why did you even reply? You would have been much better off letting it go at that.

    I really don't want to discuss it with you and never did want to, I was trying to be polite whenever I did But really all you did is drift into a fantasy future by dreaming it was this huge great new movement of everybody to the left. And everything they did was wonderful and smart and it was all going to work out great.

    I'm the one who started the threads all summer about how the 'defund police" slogan was stupid, I'm the one who started all the news threads about moderate Dems worried about it, I'm the one who pointed out how radical anarchists were trying to take over official BLM with all their woke "abolish police" and anti-authority shit, Im the one who posted about Joe Biden saying we need more police not less, I'm the one who I'm the one who posted about the Dem meetings where Jim Clyburn was screamed bloody murder, etc.

    And you're the one who was living in a bubble where everyone was for it and every day in every way it was just going to go in that direction, that like all young people hated police and the protests were never going to stop. And nobody on the left disagreed and every thing was hunk dory, a little riot there, a little arson here, looting here and there, businesses ruined (many Hispanic no doubt) but so what

    Instead, the police pulled back and people stopped protesting and now here we are with a totally different paradigm where lawlessness is the new cool thing on all sides

    and you're the one who defended every stupid left wing propaganda turn that the BLM movement made in general,including the official BLM stupid "defund police", which they dug their heels in even after Biden was elected.

    as if was going to do any good to keep the far left anti-cop nut cases in a "defund police" protesting coalition also agitating against middle class gentrifiers rather than what it did, and all kinds of leftist white upper class priveliged brats who think they need them some socialism,

     which is turn off masses of people that were in the middle that were once with the movement and attract a bunch of Boogaloos to support.

    an set up a whole anti law and order and anti federal authority zeitgeist for the right wing nut cases to follow. I.E., right wing says OIC, they're not going to crack down on rioting and looting anymore, they're not going to prosecute attacks on federal buildings, they're gonna let people attack private property, let's get into the fun before it's too late! Bonus: everybody gets to use guns!

    Your one who proudly parades partisan Dem bonafides, but I suspect Jim Clyburn would be quick to put a muzzle on you. Not too swift on where you need to draw lines to win over a majority.


    a btw, just went to check on BLM official twitter feed, they are pushing the meme today that MLK was a radical anti-capitalist including being for "radical redistribution of political and economic power"from what he said once. Even to the point of promoting the hashtag #RadicalKing.

     Now that should really help calm things down in this country, doncha think? Boogaloos probably love it! Get the war on!

    One thing they have done is, after challenging Biden to meet with them for weeks, on the website, they gave that up and hid all the "Defund Police" crap down in a hidey hole, you have to search for it now, they are for "Freedom, Liberation and Justice". And clearly, socialism


    RMRD about AA...
     
    Little does AA realize how radical MLK was...
     
    .
    .
    The speech in it's entirety...
     
     
    ~OGD~
     

    Your condescendence is not appreciated. What would be appreciated is if you tried to deal on a more grownup level with disagreement and stay away from judging the backgrounds of people you never paid much attention to here until you know who they are and what the have said.

    I know all those quotes and more hon. I was on the front lines too, UW 71, tear gassed and all.

    He's was a very complex man, a devout Christian as well as a practitioner of non violent theory where if one directly breaks a law one considers unfair, one pays the price of like: going to jail and taking any other punishment,  to draw attention to the unfairness instead of trading blows which just ends up leaving the whole world blind.

    The point, THOUGH, is not his messages at all, it is what official BLM is using him for: spinning their angry agitprop as I see it. Detrimental to the cause of the Democratic party winning seats and arguments. Even Jim Clyburn ruled: no talk using the words "socialism" or "defund the police" until after the Georgia Senate run offs. Now fire back that, like a grownup, not like a 17 year old. If you do think now's the time those words can be reintroduced to Dem benefit, I'm going to pull back and do a wait and see about what Joe Biden thinks. And if he ever does get around to actually publicly meeting with those official BLM folks instead of snubbing thme.

    [By the way, on the making presumptions about others here thing - I get this feeling you think I am this snooty New Yawker (because of my user name, maybe?) and it's going to rile me if you say nice things about California. I have one brother and sister-in-law in L.A. proper, a brother and sister-in-law part time in Santa Monica, a niece and new grand nephew in Inglewood. Now let's go north: lots of in-laws in Chico, mother-in-law and brother-in-law had houses in Paradise and Magalia but lost them to the ground in the fires. 

     I'm a widow who would like nothing more than to switch to the L.A.area and leave DeBlasio's hell, which I moved to when I was 29 years old from Milwaukee, and it was even more hellish (Koch) but I am stuck here right now. 

    go fuck your presumptions, I don't make them about you, even though you have a stupid user name, I just judge from what you write. 

    furthermore, if you ever wonder why people don't comment on your blog posts, consider this idea:

    they have seen you respond to others, like me, with nasty childish things like poop pictures and ridicule using inaccurate presumptions. How do they know you won't do the same to them? They chose to decline to find out whether, like in high school, they end up on the chosen team of "friends of OGD" or "enemies of OGD", they just want to socialize about news and politics, not play high school cliques. It's just not worth it, you're not selling yourself as a promising social interaction, you're offering up "probably a pain in the ass", oooh so enticing NOT. Not here to go back to high school, I doubt anyone is.]


    Regarding loss of seats, Democrats lost the South with the Civil Rights Bills.

    A call for change is not always appreciated 


    That has to be reinterpreted...  

    Sounds better as a Swedish Elmer Fudd.

    Yuoov cundescendence-a is nut eppveceeeted. Bork bork bork!
    -snip-

    Gu foock yuoov pvesoompshuns, I dun't meke-a zeem ebuoot yuoo, ifee thuoogh yuoo hefe-a a stoopeed usoo neme-a, I joost joodge-a fvum vhet yuoo vveete-a. Bork bork bork!

    It's all water off a duck's back.

    ~OGD~

     

     


    I googled "richmond va police an evil occupying force" on 2 browsers, and all I got was your post and  pdf on the Civil War....  straw man creations support confirmational bias! 


    NCD... shoots and scores...

    Thanks for the not-so-funny chuckle during these very trying times.

    Seems to be a whole passel of confirmational bias goin' 'round here.

    ~OGD~

     


    Or otherwise known as "blogging." I am inclined to do it once in a great while. On a blog. Using humor and sarcasm. To, you know, make people think, maybe about things from a different angle.


    To, you know, make people think, maybe about things from a different angle.

    Wow, what a concept. Do you think it might catch on?


    psst: blogging did catch on, big time. Then it sort of died down, and other type of things took over. Things change. But we still have a section to do it at DagBlog. You use the tab right at the top that says "Blog now!"

     I want to be clear, though, if I hadn't made it clear before, looking at things basically from the same exact angle for decades, same exact angle just told a million different ways, that's not for me. After I've looked at it from that angle 10,000 times over decades, and only a minority seem to be adherents, I'm done with that, moving on. Again, things change.


    force that regulates bbq's, among other things, whining about being defunded for a long time:



    I followed this guy's on site reports from protests over many months and my general impression was that he was fairly prejudiced against anyone that might be right wing, so it's quite amazing to see him say this:


    Wow, Logan Circle - still reviving that yuppie wannabe gangsta homestead? (I met a real.black person, needing "$10 to get a cab home, I'll pay you back, honest" - those were the days. Even remember prostitutes before they cleaned it up. Must be paved in gold by now, but still "edgy" - have to gear up to walk to Whole Foods (hope the Ethiopian place is still there, even tho the original owner left long ago).


    a little more on Richmond Monday:

    Armed Activists Defy Local Ordinance To Rally In Richmond, VA https://t.co/Coo9bXIRnK

    — Ford Fischer (@FordFischer) January 18, 2021

    High ratio of cameras to guns in Richmond pic.twitter.com/Ft0Y2aT1ao

    — Elle Reeve (@elspethreeve) January 18, 2021


    This is right (). There were two public lies, oft repeated in the last year:

    One was that Trump really won the election.

    The other was that police routinely shoot unarmed black people.

    *Both* led to riots. https://t.co/HSU9D98oJV

    — Abigail Shrier (@AbigailShrier) January 26, 2021


    Number of people shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2017-2020

    Published by Statista Research Department, Nov 30, 2020

    TAKE A QUICK LOOK at the graphic at the top, partly interactive so it's not easily pastable.

    Posting a link here so I can easily find it. Clearly, the hysteria over this during this year has been just that, hysteria-temporary insanity, caused by seeing actually videos of death. 

    [edit 12/24/20 to correct faulty link; original comment was  12/09/2020 - 8:27pm]


    by artappraiser on Thu, 12/24/2020 - 1:06pm

    one comment from thread with lots more reality-based info.:

    "DEFUND POLICE IS A BAD IDEA, NOT A BAD SLOGAN": YGLESIAS

    By artappraiser on Mon, 12/07/2020 - 4:05pm |


    I keep forgetting to throw this in with the above and I think it's highly related to the irrational factor here. There are a heckuva lot more bad doctors in this country than bad cops and they do kill and maim TONS more people than police do!  Plus its's often: slowly and miserably  torture them to death, rarely ever making them feel better than before, very often making them feel worse and never to feel well again. And it's too simplistic to call it malpractice, because lots of it is due to iatrogenic practice and the patient goes along with it because you like trust doctors to know what they doing, your mom taught you to. Plenty of them are evil lazy arrogant idiots, though one saving grace is that the younger generation is being taught to finally think more wholistically and listen to the patient's symptoms and not just treat tests

    The third-leading cause of death in US most doctors don’t want you to know about

    UPDATED WED, FEB 28 2018 Ray Sipherd, special to CNBC.com

    • A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
    • Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.
    • Advocates are fighting back, pushing for greater legislation for patient safety [....]

    Everyone just has more fear of "authoritarian" when it comes to cops, when actually they aren't seeing that there's a lot of similarity to the doctor job. If you wanna see authoritarian, they both should be seen that way. (And libertarians are actually more logical about this, they're often against both groups..)

    P.S. Practice of medicine is most definitely an art more than a science, they don't know so little about how individual human bodies work, it's a joke to call it science.  Again, policing not that different that way, you have to have a talent for certain things.

     

     

     

     


    Let's be real - there were some atrocious cases of killing blacks, including 2 trucks (not police) chasing down a jogger, a cop slowly suffocating a black guy with his knee, a no-knock warrant in the middle of the night that resulted in the death of the woman whose flat it was (yes, her boyfriend fired 1 shot), a female cop who wandered into the wrong apartment after work (by mistake?) and killed the owner, a cop spraying a load of bullets into a driver in front of his kids. 

    It may not happen oh so "often", but it sure as fuck makes for some horrific encitement and feelings of being attacked, whatever the statistics (humans don't respond by statistics). Many whites as well as most blacks were extremely upset. The protests and complaints and demands were largely reasonable - e.g. "do better" (though in the beginning as is usual more got out of hand), but a relatively few BLM protesters and associates kept the vandalism and intimidation going much longer).

    Counter this with "steal the vote" where there was *zero* evidence of significant steal after months of promoting this (and Roger Stone had previously promoted Stop the Steal in 2016, when the only real evidence was the other way) - and there were *massive* recounts in several states, whereas in 2016 there was no mechanism for a serious recount in PA, MI, WI, and once again it was completely out of bounds for a Democrat to even think about recounts - it took Jill Stone to do it in 1 state and the courts shut that down quick. But the Republicans equate "thinking about a recount" with actually recounting at least 4 states. In 2016, only about 87% of ballots we're under some kind of audit/validation, whereas by 2020 it was over 95%, yay - but there remain some questions re ES&S machines that have never been answered *20 years*, unlike Dominion.

    So please, enough both sides do it. Yes, left-wing protesters out if hand should be arrested. But mobbing a gentrified section of Portland to disrupt dinner and break into stores is not the same as mobbing Congress and trying to overturn a presidential election. Add the visuals of long lines of blacks in pandemic 2020 and other elections waiting to vote, while whites get short lines thanks to deliberate short placement does not help the comparison.


    you're mixing a whole lot of stuff in there that has to do with racism problems but doesn't have a whole lot to do with policing, like voting lines. Tons of destruction over the summer in riots, tons. Lots of downtowns, lots of burning. Concurrent with huge rise in violent crime.

    Horrific murder of Arbery was about racism, and lack of prosecution of it, dare we say tolerance of it, not policing.

    Apples and oranges: higher percentage of black people are poor than whites and also crowded into living in urban ghettoes where high violent crime naturally occurs, especially in a pandemic. 

    Still more white people are shot by police than blacks.

    I'm with Yglesias and Biden and even more so with Keisha Lance Bottoms: more police not less have a better chance of helping the situation even with the media stoking individual horror stories. 

    People can start businesses, go to work safely, study for college if criminals are not on their streets all the time shooting each other and protesters are not burning their own police cars, police stations and gas stations, attacking CNN and wrecking historic courthouses and preventing people going to court, burning black retired cops alive while they are working as guards.cheering on boogaloo shooters of cops, looting the few decent shops left for people to buy stuff in the hood,

    in the end chasing everybody out but the poorest who can't afford to leave and are mostly black.

    just because there were huge peaceful mixed crowds protesting, turn a blind eye to what people in those cities saw with their own eyes: the fact the the violence all summer really really did a ton of destruction. Things, and less death yeah sure, not symbolic as the Capitol, but an awful lot of things that people, including many immigrant people, built with blood sweat and tears. Not much happened in the Bronx and Washington Heights that way only because Dominican and Puerto Rican business owners discouraged every evening with baseball bats. Macy's and Manhattan took the brunt of it.

    Rule of law across the board against criminal behavior and excuses for it.  Including Abery type thug murderers. So we can have civilized democracy,

    I'm not thrilled with the new lax bail laws at all. Lots of BLM type activists fought for them and now guess who is getting the benefit? Goose meet gander. How about rather keeping the accused perps off the streets until tried and shaping up the courts and jails and prison systems so they are more rehabilitative and less punitive and less places for homies to get even more tribal and learn mo better crime?

    as as the fear and terror factor goes, you don't think it scares a fucking lot of people when protesters start burning police cars in front of CNN, lefty lawyers throw Molotov cocktails into them in NYC, a nightly hipster mob is given run over a section of the expressway, all of down Kenosha wrecked and it was just starting to make a comeback, now it may never. 

    The actual story is about Kenosha, you know. He deserves major kudos for owning up that he actually was reaching for a knife! 

    Back to your mixing a whole lot of racial problems into the issue of policing. I think just the opposite, I think policing a better life for poor people, getting danger off their streets, is a smarter way to get somewhere on that front.

    Hey, we had it in NYC, for decades, I know. A low crime rate and little tolerance for violence and respect for property helps nearly everyone, lifts all boats. Even if the cops are mostly snotty arrogant white people who don't actually live there. Cause then tourists come from allover the world and do things like take tours of Harlem without a scintilla of fear. And young black kids in segregated nabes learn there are better ways of making money than shouting another dude for his cell phone and get to meet people like tourists from France and China and oh look there's President Bill Clinton stopping to talk before going to his office...POLICING IS WHAT DONE that. And now the 80's are creeping back.


    I mixed things and said where i mixed things, but the basic fact is we saw some racist murders - including some by police - but we didn't see left wing vote theft.

    And people are often more shocked by a single event than horrors that happen more frequently - see Kahnemann.


    dupe deleted (meta note: I think it's happeing a lot with edits? even if you're careful. I just went back to fix a couple spellings)


    And people are often more shocked by a single event than horrors that happen more frequently - see Kahnemann.

    ain't arguing with you there, and is part and parcel of the whole truthiness issue of cell phones with cameras reporting every second with close ups of individual horrors. Where's the outrage? many such types then ask. well, I think someone who's looking to stoke some mob justice, is exactly the type of person who asks that. (And I don't just mean physical violence here of a mob that thinks libs stole the election from Trump or a mob that thinks cops are out to kill blacks, I also mean boycotts and foreign policy based on emotion, little tiny internet mobs can do a lot of damage, too...)

    of righteousness and rage. Judge doesn't allow "outrage" i the courtroom, jury is supposed to sit with cool heads, not hot ones, and think and weigh the evidence.

    The mobbing is one of our main problems. Lawr and order, like it or not (even on social media sites?) is the music that soothes the savage beasts...


    (am reminded of my friend the lefty dyke on the popular bulletin board where I was a moderator in the Bush years. She was a cook who ending owning her own restaurant in Chicago, so she had to learn to tame her usual rough biker like nature for the customers but would still get it out fighting rough with Bush trolls. I was complaining how crummy the volunteer moderator job could get in a private message and how no one appreciated it. She said well, you just have to realize that nobody likes a cop,  that's your problem and that's just the way things are.)


    So I've gone from Zuck Jr and Master arch repressor of the Dag universe to "just another cop"? Pttht. I need coffee.


    Re: bail, i posted the comparison of "he screamed this!" argument that gets bail due to free speech, vs " he came premeditated to attack the function of government with these weapons/tools" that fails and leaves them detained. Even in the Tennessee decision to release, there was a smarter DA who tried to rephrase to invoke the seriousness, but the judge ruled it was too late - the first DA had already bungled it

    And *then* there are the perps they want *outside*, yacking away, giving more evidence, tying in their circle of friends.

    So bail isnt necessarily a fail, plus *some* protest really is free speech, and i appreciate the effort to distinguish. Saying "fuck the police" or worse is still allowed.


    Rioting mobs don't just cause death, and that's why cops is tough on keeping street protests under control, to prevent them from becoming a mob:

    MORE: Latest statement from US Capitol Police union updates injuries to officers:

    "Officers with crushed spinal discs, broken kneecaps, and traumatic brain injuries. Some of these officers may never return to duty. Many more are experiencing signs of PTSD.”

    — Scott MacFarlane (@MacFarlaneNews) February 23, 2021

    that's why cops came to scare the group away from the parking lot in the original story here. Those people can practice their free speech in other ways. This is why police form lines and get rough with protesters who break their line. It's also why someone like Mayor Lance-Bottoms says "go home, this is not protest, go home and learn how to protest." It's not just to protect cops but also the protesters themselves, when mobs form, all kinds of people get hurt.

    Mobs are the breakdown of norms and civilization itself.


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