oleeb's picture

    Will Obama okay capitulation and allow the FISA travesty to pass?

    Obama's voice has been silent thus far on the FISA capitulation now being marketed by Steny Hoyer and other wimpocrats in Washington DC who seem eager to sell us all down the river on retroactive telecom immunity.  This is not a close call.  Any decent Democrat with any balls should forcefully oppose this bill.  In the past Obama has opposed retroactive immunity.  If that opposition was for real then he will forcefully oppose this utter and complete capitulation on the issue.  As the nominee of the party and very liley the next President of the United States, Obama could easily quash this legislation by publicly making it clear he does not want the leigislation to pass.  If he doesn't do this but instead hides behind casting a vote against while this sickening, anti-American piece of shit legislation passes it means that Obama has no intention of upsetting the apple cart in DC as he has claimed from day one in his campaign.

    Again, this is NOT a close call.  All good Democrats must oppose this effort by a tyrant to avoid prosecution for crimes committed at his direction and to allow his criminal co-conspirators in the private sector to be allowed to escape the consequences of their criminal actions as well.  It is unacceptable for the man who is now our party's leader to allow this legislation to go through.  It will not be long before we find out just exactly what Obama is made of and this bill is the test folks.

    I pray that Obama does the right thing.  I want to believe he will.

    Comments

    I think he needs to worry about getting elected right now. He can't change Washington as a Junior Senator, but he can as President. Coming out strongly against this may win him some points with Dem activists and independents, but it would probably have a larger cost as it could easily be framed as "Obama wants to punish companies for helping to keep you safe". Besides unless I am mistaken it can be passed anyways without the "compromise", meaning Obama's first big public political stand he'd lose.

    He is in General Election mode, and while this is an ugly decision, I think it's the right one.


    Nothing can pass without a senate vote. Obama, with help from Clinton (and from Dodd and Biden who also vowed to stop retroactive immunity during the campaign) can keep a vote on any bill that contains immunity from happening.


    A friend who called his senate office (like many others have been doing, apparently) was read a statement from Obama about it today denouncing it. I don't know if the statement is for press release or just something they prepared for the deluge of calls.


    He's the nominee friend. That carries a tad more weight than his Jr. Senator status.

    If he were to follow the course you seem to think he will follow then he's nothing more than another capitulationist Democrat. If that is the case then all the rhetoric about change is nothing but old fashioned sloganeering.

    Who cares what the Republicans will say? They will say it either way! Have you not noticed that is what Republicans always do?

    You may recall the reason the "smart crowd" like Hillary Clinton, John Kerry and many others went along with the Iraq war authorization was so that the Republicans couldn't use it against them in the election the following month. And of course, the Republicans still used it against them as though they were opposed and voted against the invasion. How much different things would be today had they had the presence of mind and the courage to do what they knew was right instead of playing the "smart" political move eh? Now is another one of those times. Obama has nothing to lose by doing the right thing, but our country has much to lose if he does not stand up now--when it is difficult and do the right thing.


    Just wait until democrats win a majority in 2006, then they'll stop the war funding and demand an exit strategy. They'll help get rid of Alberto Gonzales and appoint an attorney general who will ensure that we are a nation of laws again.

    Okay well that didn't work out so well.

    Just wait until a democrat is president in 2009, then, magically, all democrats will grow a backbone.

    Because democrats have really been totally innocent in the last eight years, right?

    Here's the thing: it would be great to have democrats in power.
    But we have to make sure the RIGHT democrats are in power.

    Make sure your local democratic reps and senators are willing to take a stand on issues, not fold.



    As I just posted elsewhere, in theory the Senate could block Steney Hoyer's FISA "compromise."
    There doesn't even need to be a filibuster.
    Reid can keep it from even coming to a vote.
    He's already expressed misgivings about the "compromise" bill, suggesting he'll vote against it.
    But that's just covering his ass, since he has the power to actually block it.
    Meanwhile, Feingold, Wexler, Leahy and Dodd are among those expressing strong opposition. Feingold accurately called it "a capitulation, not a compromise."
    But rememember, this same Democrat-led Senate passed an earlier bill (which later died) granting limited telecom immunity.
    As for the House, Pelosi appears to be holding her nose on Hoyer's bill. She previously called for the issue to be resolved by July 4.
    She may vote no on the bill, but clearly won't do anything to block it.
    Obama's silence (so far) suggests something shocking: that he too may have been kept out of the loop on what Hoyer was actually agreeing to.
    Given the way the players are lining up -- Bush White House and DLC types on one side, progressives and quasi-progressives on the other -- this is indeed a crucial test for Obama.
    The fact he and his team have been so slow to comment suggests a heated internal debate.
    I think it's a given he'll vote no if and when this comes to the Senate floor.
    The big question is whether he'll publicly use his newfound clout to pressure Reid into blocking it.
    He doesn't want to suffer his first Senate defeat before even becoming president. But he also doesn't want to cave on an obvious issue of principle.
    This past week, he's been studiously courting the "moderate" -- read craven chickenshit -- congressional Democrats.
    Now, this looks like a shot across his bow to indicate he needs to pay these scum yet more obeisance.
    The message is: piss off your most enthusiastic netroots backers, or piss off us powers-that-be.
    A hard choice. I hope he makes the right one.


    My thoughts exactly!


    It's the life story of the Democrats, sadly.


    My understanding is that the Senate has already voted, and according to Pelosi this bill is an improvement over the Senate version. And I don't think it's the leadership's fault. According to an article that's posted on the front page here at TPM, it's the blue dog Dems in the House who are responsible (http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=cqmidday-000002899718)

    Asked why Democrats don’t put aside the surveillance legislation until a new president is elected in November, Hoyer said he would prefer to do so, but can’t because so many House Democrats are prepared to vote for the Senate bill that he and other top House Democrats oppose.

    “Clearly enough Democrats have indicated in the House they would vote for the Senate bill if it came to the floor. The alternatives are either the Senate bill or a bill significantly better” reached through negotiations with the Senate and the White House, he said.

    Here's my question: what by what rationale have the blue dogs made the decision to vote for immunity? Do you think they receive many calls from constituents demanding that the law grant the telecoms immunity? (I don't.)

    There's also more info in the NYT, tomorrow's edition: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/washington/20fisacnd.html


    Neither Obama nor Clinton can simply kill the bill. That's why you run for President.

    As much as this sucks as policy, the truth is the future is more important than the past. Immunity for past acts is less important than whether we discontinue this policy for the future. When power changes hands, policy will change.


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