MIchael, Thanks for posting this and again I apologize for the typos, which I really became aware of when I was waiting at the vet's office.  I've changed the title because I think it fits better, and I've made quite a few edits in the text, but there is no change in substance.  

P.S. Great thing about Manhattan is that vets are right around block.  Not so great thing about Manhattan is that my little Lacey's cut was worth 173 dollars. But she's worth every penny, my little rescue from the great state of Tennessee.

NCD, funny you should ask me about sacrificing my own family in the hope of preventing genocide.  I answered the same basic question with all my heart and with absolute sincerity last week.  That question was posed to me by lulu.  You can look for it if you'd like.  Seems to be a lot of interest in the blood of my kids around these parts.  

I want grandchildren some day and I want them each to live to be 120 (like Moses).  I want my four children to each live to be 120 as well, G-d willing.  I'm not sure if you've raised kids, but I have three of them in their 20s.  I raised three independent kids.  If they  wish to choose military service i might try to discourage them, but my children think for themselves, and again, respectfully, thank G-d.

Do you want to know how I would feel, please G-d forbid, if one of my children . . . I can't even say it.  Does that disqualify me from discourse?  I addressed that with lulu too.  Tried to be as honest and open as I could be.

I've come to the conclusion that I am entitled to participate in the political process, regardless of whether my children may some day choose not to serve.  They have their own views, each of them and of course I love them each unconditionally.

Moving from my family and their blood, G-d forbid and forgive me for responding to that which I cannot even visualize, I wrote an article hoping to isolate the issue of genocide.  I understand, I think I wrote, that logistical issues follow of course.  I will say, and I've written it before, that IMO the fact that we the People authorized and re-elected George Bush with respect to Iraq provides us with an even greater responsibility to prevent the slaughter of the Iraqi people rendered defenseless by our actions.

NCD, you are an asset here with expertise on matters that others do not share.  Please understand that I genuinely respect that.  In turn, I hope you are satisfied in knowing about my family.  My seven year old remains in my control and supervision. I just want her to keep smiling; she rocks my world.

Please let me know if you'd like to know anything else about how I raise my children, but the question I posed here is whether the prevention  of genocide is an American core value which justifies the use of our military assets.  Perhaps that sounded too neutral.  Point taken on that. 

Should anyone else seek to frame this in terms of my family, kindly refer to this response, or my prior response of last week to lulu. 

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Edited to add that this hopefully links to a rather extensive colloquy that Lulu and I had which addresses the issue of family in this realm.  I don't mean to be fully dismissive of the question, and I think the colloquy between Lulu and I confirms that I have thought much about the issue over the years.  I just would like to feel that one is not disqualified from debate unless his own blood had direct skin in the game.  Democracy is far more complicated than that.

Excellent questions Emma, with the caveat that I can't speak for her specifically.  I think that her response from what I read would involve a greater commitment to international cooperation with the UN Genocide Treaty as home base, and with consideration of diplomatic, economic, and other actions that might be used to prevent a genocide.  Off the top of my head, with respect to Biafara, for example, you probably remember the pictures of all those starving kids with the bloated bellies.  I'd never seen that before.  She reminds us that we treated the war as an internal matter and we effectively condoned if not endorsed the blockade of the Biafarans, and which led to the mass starvation.  So, I guess, in a general sense, she is not committed to military action as a matter of course.  Her biggest beef is with no action, demonstrated time and again, with at most efforts that were either too little or too late.

Your point is well-taken about the nature of that which is the Middle East.  I would be a fool to argue that we could best our ancestors of 100 years ago who carved up the Ottoman Empire, and helped create or perpetuate the ethnic divisions there.  

I will defer to experts, but I've been thinking quite a bit about an enclave in territory controlled by the Kurds, who right now are at least saying how much they love this country for helping them, and I would condition our defense of that enclave on a demonstrated commitment of the Kurds to provide an enclave for the smaller minorities who have depended over the centuries on the good graces of their Sunni overlords in Northern and Central Iraq.  Somebody I'm sure can knock that down, but I just cannot accept that resignation is our only option.

Emma, the only other thing I want to say is something based on what Beetlejuice wrote to me last week, and that is lots of times we are told things about the number of casualties in a war zone like northern Iraq that turn out not to be true.  I recognize that.  

As you can see, I'm now speaking for myself, but Ambassador Power did not have very kind things to say about our bipartisan decision in the late 1980s to cuddle up with Sadaam and basically ignore evidence that he was slaughtering Kurdish Iraqis with poison gas.  We made a political calculation that it was more important to prevent an Iranian victory over Iraq than to lead the world in a humane response (not necessarily military back then) to the gassing of the people.

Yea, I hear you Aaron, and I think that's the point I was making about what I got from Emma's comment.

Oh, I know one other thing I definitely don't want to forget to say. I do a reverse commute most days and spend about an hour in the car in the morning. I do a lot of news surfing and it really was amazing how mundane the discussions were among the so-called experts.  Maybe it's different when you listen to the talking heads on the radio, but it seemed that all they cared about was Obama's dumb statement about having no strategy.  Right and left, all they cared about were the political ramifications.  And, we joke about it, but I think that really sucks. It's not about Obama, or Hillary, or whoever might run on the other side and how they're hurt or helped.  There's a friggin' genocide going on.

Moat, 

Read this last night and was too burnt out to thank you and respond.  But raising Wilson in the context you have here  is important. Among other things it highlights the disconnect between his worthy dreams of promoting the nation state concept and the the status of minority ethno-national groups.  Here, in a nation of minorities where we have always struggled with the need to ensure minority rights (focusing on the smaller states as minorities at the threshold), and we have a mixed record at best.  But in the Middle East, and certainly since Woodrow Wilson's crusade, there really have been very few bright spots to go along with the manner in which the Ottoman Empire was carved up when it comes to the status of minorities.  And in the area of the Levant where things now seethe, we have contributed quite a bit, most recently by invading Iraq in 2003, to put these people in the jaws of an ISIS group that was only recently promoted from the junior varsity, according to what the really smart people have been advising the president apparently.  

Thanks Moat.  Happy Labor Day weekend.  You know there was a time starting around twenty years ago when I would make an annual sermon at temple on this weekend (always few in attendance for some reason) to promote the thesis that Labor Day was a Jewish holiday.  Don't think that one is going to be revived for Dag this year, I'll spare everyone!   But of course it is true you know. :)

Bruce

Flavius, thanks so much for taking time out this weekend to reiterate the point that you made earlier, along with others through the thread, which is that you have to keep out ground troops.  I understand that point and certainly don't mean to marginalize it, particularly when someone with your experience and background makes it.  I get it.

I don't want to see ground troops in Iraq or anywhere either, but I think it's important to consider the issue of the prevention of genocide, and I know it's harder to do that in light of our experience and the realities that ground troop brings.  Right now it looks like the ground troops already in Iraq consisting of Kurdish and Iraqi military, as a result of the limited air strikes we have undertaking, seem to be pushing back and saving lines, and resisting a genocide.   

Finally, as I wrote in response to your first comment, I really don't believe in red lines.  But that's a whole new topic.

I'm so glad you joined the discussion.  Hope things are well.

Bruce