MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Alabama win offers vivid lessons to Democrats
By HSG on Fri, 12/15/2017 - 9:28am |The elections in Virginia and Alabama have proven that it is possible for Democrats to focus on white and minority voters without alienating either, said Zac McCrary, a Democratic pollster based in Alabama. Technology, for one, makes it possible to target specific populations with particular messages through email, text messages and phone calls. The party can also speak to universal issues, he said.
“I would suggest that jobs, health care, education are at the top of the list for any subgroup,” Mr. McCrary said.
URL:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/14/us/blacks-alabama-doug-jones-.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
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Comments
Hopefully, Democratic leadership gets the message. Black voters are the base. Energize black voters. Energize Latinos. The so-called white working class has left the building. Pedophilia, racism, bigotry, and misogyny did not keep the majority of white male and female voters from voting for Roy Moore and Donald Trump. Pay black activists some of the money the Democrats used to GOTV in white communities, there is a better return on investment.
Edit to add:
The Democratic Gubernatorial primary in Georgia pits a black female candidate energizing the black vote and white Progressives against a white woman focusing on white working class voters. It will be interesting to to see the result.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/opinion/black-voter-turnout-alabama.html?ribbon-ad-idx=10&rref=homepage&module=Ribbon&version=origin®ion=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Home%20Page&pgtype=article
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/15/2017 - 12:25pm
So do you disagree with the notion that when you energize people of color by promoting economic justice you also energize poor, working, and middle-class whites?
Isn't that how Barack Obama won in 2008?
by HSG on Fri, 12/15/2017 - 12:34pm
What percentage of white voters voted for Obama?
What percentage of white voters voted for Doug Jones?
When has Bernie Sanders been seen in the black community?
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/15/2017 - 12:39pm
Averaging his two Presidential elections, over 40% of white voters nationally voted for Barack Obama. He would have lost otherwise. Doug Jones got 30% of the white vote. Sounds pretty low doesn't it? According to the Washington Post, though, "Jones benefitted from near-unanimous support from black voters, historically large support from whites." Jones needed black and white support to win.
Regarding Sanders your point is invariably that he couldn't garner black support, that blacks didn't think he was going to help them, that he didn't speak to them enough. Okay, I'll accept those claims for the sake this discussions. Don't they prove that Democrats need both black and white working-class support to win? Bernie couldn't win the Dem primaries with only a slim majority of whites on his side when African-Americans were voting for Hillary over him by 40% margins. Likewise, Clinton couldn't win nationally because she alienated far more white voters than Barack Obama.
Thus, shouldn't Democrats work to appeal to both whites and people of color? And, isn't the way to do that by speaking to each group about issues that may be of discrete concern while also promoting to all voters big-picture economic policies that will lead to better outcomes for most Americans like ending the job-destroying trade deals, single-payer health care, and tuition-free public colleges and universities?
by HSG on Fri, 12/15/2017 - 1:04pm
I said that the black candidate was focusing on blacks and white Progressives. Those are the folks who voted for Obama. We have the coalition. In Alabama, Jones got 35% of the white female vote because Moore was scum. There may not be a message that will result in that number of white female Alabama voters to cast votes for a Democratic candidate next time around if the Republican is not a pedophile.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/15/2017 - 1:17pm
You're right Democrats are going to have to figure out how to reach enough white voters when candidates as toxic as Roy Moore are not the Republican candidate. Barack Obama did that so did Bernie Sanders.
by HSG on Fri, 12/15/2017 - 1:25pm
I interpret things as indicting we have enough votes to win with the white Progressives we have and an erergized minority vote. Neither Obama or Doug Jones got a majority of the white vote. My plan would be to energize the minority vote. Your plan is to appeal to white voters who don’t care for your message.. A larger black turnout would have made Hillary President.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/05/08/low_black_turnout_may_have_cost_clinton_the_election.html
Put Black people in charge of the outreach. Spend money for outreach in the black community.
Editto add:
It is very curious that despite the fact that the majority of money for Democratic outreach went to white voters with little return on investment there were no complaints, but now that there is talk of spending money to do black outreach, people are upset that we are “ignoring” white voters.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 12/15/2017 - 3:09pm
We agree as you know the need for the Democratic Party to reach out more to the black community. What policies do you think would resonate there?
by HSG on Fri, 12/15/2017 - 4:34pm
The last three paragraphs of rmrd's Slate link are actually support for your view, HSG. Just pointing it out:
by artappraiser on Fri, 12/15/2017 - 9:01pm
Well, black lives were improved in DC in the 90's. Maybe it didn't hit the rest of the country or we spent so much effort trashing the 90's that we couldn't notice anyway. It started with Rodney King and ended decidedly higher, with black poverty cut in half and home ownership way up, etc.
Obama was never going to make the changes people expected of him. He was a Sphinx, a Rorschach test, more invested in his own image and carefully not making waves.he checked the "first black president" box, got us through the meltdown, but otherwise was business as usual, especially for black people (maybe worse)
by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 2:27am
You have a different worldview than I have. Most people have moved on from 2016.I focused on lack of enthusiasm among black voters.I linked to the article about voter suppression in Wisconsin. I linked to an article about the lack of voter turnout in other states as a cause for Hillary’s loss. I did these things in past posts. I posted about low voter turnout in this blog. Hal is stuck in 2016. He is asking what Democrats can do or say to energize the black vote. He asks the same question expecting the same list of issues.He will then tell me how Bernie Sanders addresses these issues. Hal is unaware that because of direct Democratic outreach in black communities, there was a surge in blacks coming to the polls in Virginia and Alabama. Hal is stuck in 2016, so he cannot see what is happening in 2017. The surge is occurring without any involvement in the black community by Bernie Sanders.
You have argued that blacks should not expect outreach but vote faithfully for the party. Democrats did outreach and they won. You argued that blacks who were too lazy to vote were not worthy of attention. Democrats targeted black voters who were unlikely to vote. They built enthusiasm in Virginia and Alabama and they won. Energizing the black vote has resulted in Democratic victories. Democrats have a hard time cracking 50% of white voters. Sanders and Perez did outreach in white working class communities and Jon Ossoff lost in GA-6. Ossoff did no black outreach.
Black women have been the backbone of recent Democratic victories.They deserve credit. It takes nothing away from anyone to acknowledge black women. Black outreach seems to be getting results. Targeting blacks who threaten to stay home rather than vote is a rational act if Democrats want to win.
Democrats could have done a better job of black outreach in 2016. Hopefully. they are realizing that they need to do better outreach in 2017 and 2018. That is the take home message.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 2:52am
RMRD - I have agreed with you here often on the importance of outreach to the African American community. Do you agree with me that as important as outreach is, policy is even more important? If not, why not? Which matters more to you whether a politician speaks your language or enacts policies that benefit you and your community? What policies should Democrats embrace?
by HSG on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 9:46am
The Democratic Party Platform
https://www.democrats.org/party-platform
Given that the Republican Party proudly aligns itself with traitors who collude with Russians, find good people among white supremacists, working to destroy nature, and want to punish blue states with tax policy, I am willing to take kicking any Republican to be replaced by any Democratic Party member.
You will, predictably, tell me that Bernie Sanders embodies the Democratic platform. I will then tell you that I don’t trust Bernie Sanders. All hat no cattle. Bernie doesn’t understand black people and has shown virtually no willingness to confer with black communities. Sanders is a Liberal version of Trump. Trump had Omarosa, a woman hated by everybody. Sanders has Nina Turner, who is willing to tell blacks that they are not black enough because they supported Hillary Clinton. Find a candidate willing to talk to black people rather than at black people and then come back to the discussion.
The GOP is actively working to destroy the country. They are empowering racists. The Democratic Party serves as the only obstruction to the Republican plan. Democrats are doing outreach in the black community creating a surge at the polls and you are stillasking what Democrats need to do to create a surge. You are distant from the battle and threats that black people see. You are asking the same question that you asked in 2016. You have no clue about the outreach going on in 2017.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 10:22am
Republicans attacked Black Lives Matters as anti-police. Republicans are now attacking Robert Mueller and the FBI. The GOP is joined by Fox News and talk radio. Republicans want to terminate the investigation into the Russian Cyberwar against America because it involves Trump. Our country is under assault in 2017 and you are stuck in 2016. Wake Up.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 10:29am
Hal asks What policies should Democrats embrace?
As far as I can see, along with a lot of stuff that doesn't answer his question, you are basically answering: Black Lives Matter and anti-Russia. That that is what will deliver "the black vote."
As far as my opinion, in actuality, you always mis-characterize it. I'm outside of your argument and his argument, I think presuming all blacks would vote alike if all blacks were voting is: racist. Because it is suggesting people of one color of skin think alike. Now if you were talking about "the Ferguson black community" or "Milwaukee's inner city" or "most black women in Alabama", I'd have no problem with such generalizations. But to say all people with black skin across the country want the same things, I think that's a racist-enforcing way to go.
But you are saying that the right policies can deliver the black vote. And Hal is just asking you: what would those be? And you just constantly evade the answer. AND THAT'S WHY YOU NEVER END THIS CONVERSATION.
Edit to add: and I've never seen Hal, from his side of this continual argument, address "Black Lives Matter". Whether that should be a part of a platform or not.
by artappraiser on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 10:48am
I provided the Democratic Party Platform.
Regarding your position that saying blacks vote alike is racist. I pointed out that 98% of black women in Alabama voted for the Doug Jones. 93% of black men in Alabama voted for Doug Jones, is that racist? 94% of black women voted for Hillary. A majority of blacks voted for Democratic Gubernatorial candidates in New Jersey. Your racism charge is slanderous. You are not outside this discussion. You are not above this discussion. You have an odd worldview that does not connect with reality.
Both you and Hal seem oblivious to the observation that the black vote surged with Democratic outreach. If the Party Platform, which is what BlackPAC used to get out the vote in the black community is not enough, I don’t know how to help you.
Two of the people behind BlackPAC were on AM Joy today. They discussed their approach to motivating black voters by talking policy. (see Party Platform). Read the Platform. Watch the video segment from AM Joy when it is posted at the MSNBC website.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 11:02am
AA - I do think that Democrats should embrace BLM's call for much better policing. This is a somewhat divisive issue even within the black community but right is right. More specifically, I'd like to see the Democratic platform include the following: 1) A truly independent prosecutor should be tasked with investigating every time a police officer fires a weapon at a suspect. 2) There needs to be a big push to recruit people of color to serve as police officers. 3) Every gun buyer must pass a stringent background check. 4) An end to the war on drugs. 5) An effective living-wage jobs program. 6) No more private prisons. 7) No reliance on fines to pay for government services. I'm sure I can think of some more stuff. But that'll do for now.
by HSG on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 11:10am
You missed the closing the wealth gap section of the party platform.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 11:14am
We agree that this is crucial. What policies do you think Democrats should embrace in order to reduce the wealth gap? Also, do you think that reducing the gap in wealth between whites and people of color is all that matters or should we also strive to reduce the wealth gap between the .1% and everybody else?
by HSG on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 11:20am
From the platform
Closing the Racial Wealth Gap
America’s economic inequality problem is even more pronounced when it comes to racial and ethnic disparities in wealth and income. It is unacceptable that the median wealth for African Americans and Latino Americans is roughly one-tenth that of white Americans. These disparities are also stark for American Indians and certain Asian American subgroups, and may become even more significant when considering other characteristics such as age, disability status, sexual orientation, or gender identity.
The racial wealth and income gaps are the result of policies that discriminate against people of color and constrain their ability to earn income and build assets to the same extent as other Americans. It has accumulated over time and is made worse by ongoing policies and practices. For example, African Americans and Latinos lost more than half of their net worth as a result of the housing crisis and the Great Recession, because they lost jobs at a much faster rate than white workers and because they were disproportionately targeted for subprime, predatory, and fraudulent mortgages during the run-up to the housing crisis.
Democrats believe it is long past time to close this racial wealth gap. Disparities in wealth cannot be solved by the free market alone, but instead, the federal government must play a role in eliminating systemic barriers to wealth accumulation for different racial groups and improving opportunities for people from all racial and ethnic backgrounds to build wealth. Federal policies must remove barriers to achieving sustainable homeownership, provide for greater diversity in federal and state contracting practices, incentivize and expand access to retirement investment programs, increase opportunities for quality jobs and education, and challenge the deeply rooted structures that perpetuate and exacerbate current disparities and ultimately stagnate the nation’s economic growth and security.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 11:26am
Furthermore, I don't see a lot of answers for Hal's question in the Alabama Senate race. Because all I see in most coverage of the GOTV of Alabama blacks is that what motivated was a message of "stop Roy Moore from getting elected." A negative reason like that does not a party platform make. If there was something else on Davis' platform that "energized" the "black vote", Hal seems to want to know what that was. He is genuinely asking: what is it that you think "blacks" want that Bernie doesn't have?
by artappraiser on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 11:00am
BlackPAC used the Democratic Party platform.
The black vote surged
Edit to add:
Regarding what Bernie doesn’t have, Bernie doesn’t have outreach to the black community. Perez is making baby steps in black outreach
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 11:09am
Thanks RMRD.
by HSG on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 11:18am
As a percentage of the total vote, Doug Jones got twice as many white votes as Obama did in 2012. This was crucial. I guess it was wise to reach out to both the white and black communities. You say that nothing can cajole white Alabama women to vote for Democrats. Is that because white Alabama women don't care whether their families have health care, their kids can go to college, or their husbands can get a decent job? https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/politics/alabama-exit-polls...
by HSG on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 11:24am
The white female vote surged because Moore was a pedophile. The majority of whites women voted for a racist pedophile.
Can you point to elections where white voters responded to education and health care platforms? Bill Clinton and Barack Obama did not get a majority of the votes of white women
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/white-women-support-gop/507617/
Those white female votes are likely to go back to the GOP when theirs is a less repulsive candidate than Roy Moore.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 11:45am
So should Democrats stop trying to attract white women voters? How would you recommend they do this?
by HSG on Sun, 12/17/2017 - 8:56pm
Hal your constant unending rants and attacks on Democrats is either foolish or a fraud.
As Bernie knows and is acting on today, Trump voters won't believe him, and stop voting GOP, until they recognize the Republicans are liars, con men and servants of the rich.
You have never done one blog on what Republicans are doing to destroy what you claim to value. Making your commitment to your avowed principles empty and lacking a shred of sincerity.
by NCD on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 1:14pm
If I have written something that you believe is incorrect, please set forth the evidence that supports your belief.
by HSG on Sun, 12/17/2017 - 8:59pm
I think this is the most interesting part of Eligon's New York Times' piece:
All politics is local ~ Tip O'Neill
by artappraiser on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 12:13pm
And I would add for Hal, as a upper midwest native who still often feels an outsider in NYC after 35 years, that part of the problem as I see it for Bernie and his fans is that they still present with this culture: a Northeasterner who, for anyone elsewhere "doesn't get me and my world."
by artappraiser on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 12:29pm
When you watch the AM Joy segment with BlackPAC, you will see this discussed. The Jones campaign initially rejected help from black activists. The error was corrected. BlackPAC will be active in other states.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/16/2017 - 12:35pm
I'll augment my response elsewhere to note that *rejecting* black participation in these actions is a mistake. Nevertheless I cringe when I hear of something like the million women march didn't start off addressing black women well enough. People do things organically usually, who they know, what their contacts are. This goes for Black, white, Hispanic, whatever... when it gets big enough to notice that, just make it more inclusive - don't need the constant condemnation of things that didn't quite happen our way.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 12/17/2017 - 9:24am