MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop
MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Uh oh. Words fail me. (But I can still laugh.)
Comments
I was in my car and heard this a few minutes ago. Hilarious!!
by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 1:28pm
The other irony is that the same government that decries what Wikileaks does is fine with leaking material when it's convenient for him.
by Michael Maiello on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 1:35pm
I'm looking through you, you're not the same ...
by Donal on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 1:40pm
If this if for me, Donal, sorry. couldn't resist. Not trying to start anything here. Just struck my funny bone is all.
by Ramona on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 2:07pm
Me, too, but my funny bone always seems to put old song lyrics in my head.
by Donal on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 2:18pm
Ramona, Thank you for this link. My bullshit meter has been running off the gauge for quite some time on Assange and I have been feeling rather alone on this. This news has made me feel lots better... Now I know for sure, thanks to you, that my meter is still in good working order.
by David Seaton on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 2:33pm
Does Assange have a legal obligation of confidentiality toward the United States government? No.
Does Sweden have a legal obligation of confidentiality toward Assange (who has not yet been charged with any crime)? Yes.
Apple. Orange.
by acanuck on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 2:41pm
But did Assange hold back because Manning had a legal obligation of confidentiality toward the US government?
by Donal on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 2:54pm
Wrong analysis, I think. The paper received the information and then had a right to publish it. The Swedish government did not have a right to release it.
Manning did not have the [legal] right to release the documents and will pay a price. Assange received the ducuments and had the right, IMHO, to release them as did the papers that he worked through and with.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 3:21pm
The purpose of WikiLeaks is to allow whistleblowers to remain anonymous, so despite what is happening to Manning, paying a price for illegal action is not part of the deal. Suppose the Swedish government sent the Assange info to OpenLeaks, or some other anonymous group, who could have forwarded it to the media while protecting the government source? Does that make it better?
by Donal on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 3:47pm
"The purpose of WikiLeaks is to allow whistleblowers to remain anonymous, so despite what is happening to Manning, paying a price for illegal action is not part of the deal."
Of course not, If I am understanding you correctly, but Wikileaks didn't turn him in so they did not break the deal.
I support what Manning did but I also recognize that what he did was illegal. What he did required courage because he knew he might get caught. I don't think a person is required to be a voluntary martyr in order to commit and act of conscience that violates an arbitrary law which is abused and also hides abuse in other areas by the government. Because I believe that he did a good thing in breaking the law I would have been happy to see him get away with it. The pertinent point though is that the original leaker in both cases broke the law regardless of who they leaked the information to. After that point the people publishing the information did not break any law. The Swedish authorities would have been breaking the law if they leaked to Wikileaks just as Manning was.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 4:17pm
Perhaps the Swedish leaker considers it an act of conscience to leak Assange's info. Anonymous leaking cuts both ways.
by Donal on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 5:17pm
SO. WHAT? The Swedish leaker could hold high moral ground or he could be completely perverse in his intentions. The legality of what he did would not be any different either way.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 6:04pm
Same goes for anyone passing info to WikiLeaks, unless, like Manning, he gets himself caught.
by Donal on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 6:20pm
Do you take this all as a last word contest? I say that the conscience of the leaker does not alter the legality of the action and you reply:
"Same goes for anyone passing info to WikiLeaks, unless, like Manning, he gets himself caught."
Your reply does not make any sense.
Also, where did the original post go? It does not show up anywhere on my page view except in the recent comment section.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 6:46pm
In my eyes, anyone passing info to WikiLeaks is no different than a government official leaking info to the press. Yes, it's illegal in both cases, but it's intended in both cases to be anonymous and untraceable. From what I can tell, people that like what WikiLeaks is revealing like WikiLeaks and turn cartwheels trying to justify it. When however, a leak takes place that they don't like, they are horrified. I don't see much consistency in that position.
by Donal on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 8:09pm
Neither do I, Donal. Which is why I sort of felt the need to post the article. Plus, it made me laugh.
by Ramona on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 9:31pm
How many times does a simple truth have to be put in front of you before you recognize it.There are many clear differences that you either refuse to acknowledge or are incapable of understanding.
One leaker does it for what he believes is a good purpose and he takes a risk doing it with no chance of benefitting directly. He tries to be anonymous so as to stay out of jail. The other leaker does so with impunity and this impunity has made it become business as usual to selectively leak information for underhanded purposes. They can even choose to do it in a room crowded with reporters and simply say "off the record" or "I ask to not be identified". They do it every single day and they never get thrown into solitary for it.
I am starting to be embarrassed that I continue to bother responding to your ridiculous stand on this issue.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 9:33pm
Your insults are no more convincing than any insults ever are. Your argument seems to be that since some privileged people can advance their agendas, and possibly cause pain and grief, by selectively leaking with impunity, that the world will be a better place if anyone can use WikiLeaks to do the same - no matter what the fallout. I guess you see WikiLeaks as a balance of power. I see WikiLeaks as a weapon that can backfire.
by Donal on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 10:10pm
For me the takeaway, the bottom line, the conundrum, the slippery slope even, is this:
If you make it your life's mission to force everybody to live in glass houses you can't be whining when you have to live in one yourself.
by Ramona on Mon, 12/20/2010 - 7:10am
This is all political and Assange has just made himself the butt of a million jokes. He is the one who insisted that he be the poster boy of Wikileaks... so now this is about him and his busted condoms.
by David Seaton on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 3:17pm
So the accusations surfacing months after the fact, and coinciding with the start of the current revelations? The international arrest warrant for someone who is only wanted for questioning? The denial of bail ("flight risk") for someone who voluntarily turned himself in? The week of solitary confinement? The appeal of the court ruling granting bail? All that was Assange making himself a poster boy and a martyr?
I understand you've looked into his albino eyes and he creeps you out, David. But how does your gut feeling translate into a defense of an extrajudicial attack on an individual not yet charged with any crime? And it is extrajudicial, even if it's wrapped in legalisms. Claims that the Swedish, Swiss and British legal processes are not being shaped by American pressure are laughable.
One small example (though it is ostensibly not aimed directly at Assange): Visa, MasterCard and Paypal simultaneously block funds sent to WikiLeaks. Now, there exists an executive order that lets the White House block (even seize) funds. But it requires a State Dept. finding that the money would materially aid terrorism. For now, the U.S. hasn't dared make that claim about WikiLeaks, so it has simply strong-armed American-based companies to do what it can't legally oblige them to do.
"This is all political," you say. Obviously. And you've made very clear which side you stand with politically. We disagree quite profoundly.
by acanuck on Sun, 12/19/2010 - 4:27pm
Canuck,
Assange's mistake was to take the bait and turn himself or let himself be turned into the poster boy for the data-dump. "Outing" the State Department, using Army personel is the ultimate in hardball. If he had done it to the Russians he would have died of plutonium poison and if he had done it to the Israelis his body would probably never be found. Assange is counting on the Americans not being as rough as the above mentioned... big mistake, we're just more hypocritical.
by David Seaton on Mon, 12/20/2010 - 2:14am