MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Comments
Wow, made me realize that @ Milwaukee parochial school in the 60's, white nabe, we weren't taught any of that "may I" stuff (maybe the coastal elites were taught that?. I suspect though, that they were probably just taught to talk like their parents like we were.)
We all talked the "can I" vernacular, and didn't get corrected. "May I" would imply a snootiness for sure. Would have sort of implied you just came out of a coma from the 19th century or thought you were a Manhattan swell like in the Fred Astaire movies.
We also talked uncorrected German-American dialect like "make out the light" and local lingo, like "bubbler" instead of "water fountain" and "soda" instead of "pop." Maybe it's because the nuns teaching us were still going to college themselves? They talked just like us. They couldn't find enough teachers, that I remember. Also I do strongly remember diagramming sentences for eons and eons at school and at home. I guess they figured that way we could learn any language. Though we weren't encouraged to learn the Latin that the mass was still said in during my younger years, we had missals with the English translation on the right side pages and we'd learn to verbalize the replies.
Ah light bulb: they expected we would imbibe "proper English" from the flowery prayers in those missals and the literature we read and would be able to use it if need be, after diagramming all those sentences. But then they were expecting most of us to stay in Milwaukee and raise Catholic families there.
by artappraiser on Mon, 09/24/2018 - 9:25pm
Interesting, in the public school I went to we were. I remember it being said to me, a white boy, it actually pissed me off. So it's a bit hard for me to get the white supremacist part of teaching "proper" English. The "may I can I" controversy is a bit pedantic, it's more about power than proper English, but there are quality language skills and sloppy language skills. There is a traditional vocabulary with an accepted set of definitions and there is slang. Those traditions change over time, connotations become definitions, definitions change, slang becomes traditional. But too rapid change lessens clarity of communication and the complexity of the ideas communicated. Since we think in words sloppy language skills and a small sloppily defined vocabulary lessens the depth and quality of our thought. Children can learn slang at home and on the streets and writers can use it if they want but what should be taught in school is traditional quality language skills.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 09/24/2018 - 10:07pm
I agree with what you are saying. Was just recounting that my school didn't follow it. Which just goes to the point that as schools are funded by localities and real estate taxes, probably actual practice is going to differ whether we like or not, no matter what curriculum rules and laws say. And that's why most parents go so crazy trying to get their kid into the best school they can, so they have opportunity, so they are not stuck in one culture but have a future of choice, so they communicate in different worlds.
by artappraiser on Mon, 09/24/2018 - 10:26pm
Most of my comment addressed the article which I completely disagree with and which annoyed me since I really value language skills and a rich vocabulary. Before I got a chance to post it you posted your comment and I attached mine since I thought it interesting that your parochial school was different than my public school. My public school was ok but not great. The accepted view at the time was parochial schools had higher standards so I was surprised.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 09/24/2018 - 11:05pm
for the boomer period, the higher standards were for behavior, very strict, those that caused too much trouble or needed special attention were kicked out to the public schools. I'm talking grade 1-8, no kindergarten available, you went to public if you wanted that. Classes of 50, one twenty-something nun still going to college herself. It was just old fashioned rote schooling, the three R's The curriculum wasn't that great, we, for instance, had pretty rudimentary science curriculum and no gym. Jumping jacks on the playground started with President Kennedy's physical fitness push, that was, I am sure, because they adored him. No cafeteria, you brought your lunch. For home ec one year they would walk us from one grade all together to a public school because there was no facilities at our school. And I expect that was because it was required by state law. No labs of any kind, just classrooms. No library., you were encouraged to go to the local public library. Actually about the only thing sophisticated about what we were taught was religion class, it was the era of the Ecumenical Council and the nuns were all studying that and would teach us about the Jewish religion and Anne Frank and theology behind The Little Prince.
Looking back now I see what they were actually selling is that you would be learning with kids that came from good families kids that behaved and did their homework. That was the standard: that you were there to learn academics, not to learn social skills or art or music (the plastic clarinets, what were they called, that was it, nothing else, except you could of course join choir which was extracurricular), and they weren't going to be babysitters
Oh for holidays we'd all go in the big basement and they'd show us a movie. Usually a monster pic like the Godzilla kind. No sports, just hopskotch, volleyballs or bouncing balls during recess if you wanted them, one volleyball court behind the convent.
by artappraiser on Tue, 09/25/2018 - 12:12am
I went to private school in the south, very few blacks, perhaps at first on purpose, later probably the cost if to guess (very early on was a non-evangelical school, quickly became secular). Wasn't strict and pedantic, but we didn't come out sounding like dumb half-literate southerners either. Remember a great book of world stories in 7th grade (northern teacher) discussing existentualism, etc, but another (southern but childhood in Alaska) really into Faulkner - hardly pedantic - painful complex literature (the annual south-wide mock "Faulkner writing contest" was an exercise in brain-breaking satire, a full-court vocabulary press). French from 3rd grade, Latin in 8th and 9th.
"May I" and "Can I" were taught as 2 different forms of speech, though I can't remember much attention to it. We did address teachers with some respect, and only 1 time in 12 years do I recall students getting out of control and the principal being called in with teacher in tears.
Read James Baldwin at 10 or 11, Abbie Hoffman around same time, Rise & Fall of the Third Reich about 13...
I love American literature for its dialects, especially southern and west, sometimes the Salinger side, along with Tutuola, Garcia-Marquez translated into English. And love being able to decide which type of speech I use for whatever situation. It's still a running gag when I have people guess where I'm from - i'm from everywhere.
I wonder how Meghan the new Duchess of Sussex would respond to this article.
by PeraclesPlease on Tue, 09/25/2018 - 12:33am