MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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The Left's Silence on Alieppo
By PeraclesPlease on Wed, 12/14/2016 - 2:31am |There's a special place in hell...
Hillary's warmongering was a prob - wanton bombing of civilians in a historic city, not so much. Hey, we're doing gas pipelines in Indian territory this year - maybe we can get you on next year's agenda, though hurry, it's stacking up. Meanwhile, apparently Assad and Putin were just joking about letting civilians leave.
Aleppo's now looking like Warsaw in The Pianist. But hey, Hillary's emails... and Nuland said "Fuck the EU"!!! And American imperialism!!!!!!!
URL:
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-battle-for-aleppo-syrias-stalingrad-ends
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Comments
There is more than one truth to tell in the awful story of Aleppo.
by A Guy Called LULU on Wed, 12/14/2016 - 3:23pm
All America's fault, I'm sure. I didn't realize everyone was the same as took down world yrade center - must have cloned. Shame Russians abandoned Palmyra and let ISIS have all those weapons.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/aleppo-syria-assad-r...
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/15/2016 - 12:19am
I get that there are some on the left who just view every foreign entanglement as American imperialism run amok, but that isn't really what's at play here. Obama has his "Don't do stupid shit" doctrine and it is a good one. No fly zones cannot be enforced by us when it's Russia's air force bombing on Assad's behalf. We can't turn this into a U.S./Russia hot war.
We obviously can't send in ground forces. Nobody here would stand for it at this point. There is no political will. And, stands to reason that if we don't want to engage Russia in the air, we don't want to start landing an invasion force in the hopes Russia will stop bombing so that nothing that can't be taken back happens.
Also, all the rebels are not pro US and some of them are actively anti-US. Despite this, we have given limited intelligence, training and weapons to those we think we can trust. What more could we do in that regard. There are 300 US special forces ops on the ground there right now, advising and training. One of them died on Thanksgiving. Thankfully, the only American service member death in Syria so far.
For all the complaints about Obama on Syria, we are not in a war there with either Syria or Russia and the one death I alluded to is already one too many.
by Michael Maiello on Thu, 12/15/2016 - 10:04pm
I agree as far as it goes. But I wish Obama could have done something about the refugees. I don't think he even really tried. Europe, and a few middle east countries like Jordan is bearing the problem that America (bush) in a large part caused and it's a destabilizing force for many countries.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 12/15/2016 - 10:46pm
I agree with you. I would not object to some reasonable request like the US taking in... all the Syrians who would like to live here.
by Michael Maiello on Thu, 12/15/2016 - 10:49pm
So they can destablize this country? I suppose we deserve it since it's our responsibility. I don't want millions of refugees entering the US any more than many European countries want them. It has nothing to do with Islamophobia or fear of terrorism. It's a cultural mindset and a country's ability to assimilate. Cultural views of women, of gays, about the role of religion in one's daily life. That's a lot to absorb and modernize as Germany is finding out. I would not want millions of refugees from these religious and intolerant regions any more than I'd want millions of time traveling Americans from 1850.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 12/16/2016 - 12:13am
Immigrants always bring good cooking techniques. You have to look at the bright side.
by Michael Maiello on Fri, 12/16/2016 - 10:20am
I hung out in wonderful Syrian restaurants/cafes in Bangkok & Sofia - slightly easier ways to learn exotic cooking.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/16/2016 - 11:52am
They sure do. My wife was Mexican and I love spicy Mexican food. But let's not kid ourselves. Democrats talk about Hispanics being part of the new democratic coalition but they are only marginally on our side because they feel the republicans don't want them. A third of Hispanics voted for Trump in spite of him using them as scapegoats to rile up his racist and xenophobic followers. Hispanics are mostly serious catholics and mostly anti-abortion. They are more naturally republicans than democrats and they are surely not liberal democrats. It's possible the republicans will always be the racist and anti-immigrant party. Then we can get a majority of the Hispanic vote. But if that changes democrats will lose the hispanic vote by large margins.
America has become more secular, more tolerant, more equal over the years. I certainly don't want to facilitate immigration of people whose cultural attitudes would undo those gains.
by ocean-kat on Fri, 12/16/2016 - 4:45pm
To be fair (I hate that), Obama and Hillary own Syria too - they thought regime change thru proxies easy in the middle of the Arab Spring, and instead of just encouraging words, they provided some weapons to the developing protesters/rebels with little more strategy than that.
No, I don't want 1 million Syrians either, even though they're normal good and bad people like any other people, though more cultured and modern than many give them credit for.
But aside from few good options, the left has railed against say the Clintons for everything Haiti and for Obama and Clinton for chaos in Libya, but not at all against Putin's wanton bombing of civilians that's starting to look like Chechnya 2.0. Even ISIS' retaking Palmyra is all the US' fault, not Assad + Putin + Iran pulling troops and coverage out prematurely. Quite the tilt in expectations.
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 12/16/2016 - 1:26am
I'm with you that the criticisms of Obama and Clinton on Syria (really from all sides) are totally misplaced. Assad and Putin and Iran are the real villains here.
by Michael Maiello on Fri, 12/16/2016 - 10:24am
Those pictures of Aleppo and more which I have seen are terrifically sad. Do monstrous men make war or do wars make men monstrous? I think both but there is only one of those two which I will wholeheartedly embrace doing away with. Maybe doing so will require some leap in the evolution of our psychology. Below is a picture of Caen France, said to have been a beautiful city before WWII, shortly after it was liberated by the good guys in 1944----.
by A Guy Called LULU on Fri, 12/16/2016 - 12:26pm
Someone paid attention.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/russian-ambassador-to-turkey-shot-...
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 12/19/2016 - 6:26pm