Minneapolis mayor, police chief call proposal to cut department funding 'irresponsible and untenable'

By artappraiser on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 6:18pm |

Both said they support community alternatives to policing, but not at a drastic cost of staffing.

Minneapolis's Mayor pushes back on proposal to cut police funding as shootings and violent crime spiking in city https://t.co/tzY5mcDIgm
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) November 30, 2020

URL:

https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-mayor-police-chief-call-proposal-to-cut-department-funding-irresponsible-and-untenable/573239951/

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There's something libertarian about politicians being taken to task only for police abuses under their watch but not record homicides in many parts of the country taking place under their watch. Doesn't the state have an obligation to protect people, not just not abuse them? https://t.co/4B866dlt0U
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) November 30, 2020

So for instance, Ferguson, MO was the target of intense media scrutiny following the killing of Michael Brown, which was ruled justified, and the use of predatory ticketing/fees, which weren't. But no one is held accountable for record homicide rates in the metro area this year?
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) November 30, 2020

Does the government have a responsibility to protect people from homicide or only to prevent a potential police abuse from occurring?
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) November 30, 2020

I imagine if you're Jeff Bezos and have a team of ex-Special Forces people protecting you or whatever he has, you'd be fine with the standards set as they are now, where no politicians are held accountable for under-policing and record homicides mostly impacting the poor.
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) November 30, 2020

by artappraiser on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 6:23pm

Wait, i thought Jilani was kicked off team "People of Color" - is he still allowed to post?

by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 6:51pm

Try to keep up, you're still falling for faux solidarity messages of yore! It's every color and gender and "community" for itself now, the one with the most appointments wins. And fuck Joe Biden with his "we're all Americans" shit.

by artappraiser on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 7:04pm

P.S. do note that the Minneapolis police chief may look like part of "the black community" but then you see his name: Medaria Arradondo. Very very suspicious, must actually be from one of the traitor tribes.

by artappraiser on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 7:08pm

The chief of police is listed as the city's first African-American chief

He faced opposition from some African-American activists

This opposition was overcome by other African-American activists

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2017/07/23/rondo-rose-through-police-ranks-to-helm-a-department-under-intense-pressure

I'm enjoying the image of your head exploding

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 8:57pm

rmrd... An image like this?

~OGD~

by oldenGoldenDecoy on Tue, 12/01/2020 - 9:41pm

Lol

Yes

If you talk about race, you are not presenting your life experiences, you are expressing self-pity

The only valid experience is the one AA tells us Blacks in her family has

Everybody else is lazy.

by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/01/2020 - 9:51pm

wow hah, got a link for that? Only person I dis is you.Yes over the years after giving you chance after chance, I admit I have concluded you have a very vivid imagination for creating strawmen and other imaginary enemies combined with poor communication skills. Lazy would not be the correct word, not at all, you work very hard at imaging the same things over and over and over and over, sometimes scaring yourself silly with bogeymen, you practice really hard at keeping that one-tract closed mind steel trap shut by hunting for bias verification every minute.

by artappraiser on Tue, 12/01/2020 - 10:07pm

You seem to think that I care what you think.

Edit to add:

Speaking of repetition

Post some more stuff about the Woke.

by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/01/2020 - 10:48pm

I really really really wish you didn't and would leave me alone to do your own thing and not go on my old private threads which I try to keep out of public eye. I have gotten less than nothing but grief out of any time I spend talking to you. But when I try to stay away from you, you follow me around like a puppy dog attacking a mailman. I started this thread to give you your space away from my thread to talk about what you wanted to talk about with whoever you could find willing to talk with you. BUT NO WHAT DO YOU TALK ABOUT? ME! You lie, you care very much what I think and I think that is absolutely ridiculous and stupid of you. AND I AM REALLY STARTING TO LOSE PATIENCE. i I hate this.

! I am an pseudonymous person on this website. Why do you care so much what I think? I could be making it all up! so could you. GO AND PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IMPORTANT PEOPLE USING THEIR OWN NAMES THINK. For chrissake. I am sick of this silly game of arguing about what should be done about the world as if I make a frigging difference. I don't . If you continue to do this, act like a child, I really don't know if its worth it to continue to post here. Waste too much time dealing with your stupid shit when there are so many brilliant people to interact with elsewhere.

What you don't seem to understand is that I want to talk with people who like to analyze what is happening, you call the "triumvirate" we like to analyze. We loathe to say who we "support", that should be of little concern.

How many times can I say I am not interested in activism much less your kind which I see as counterproductive.. Leave me alone, please stay off my one private thread I have asked. QUIT MAKING IT PERSONAL, you are the one that continually makes it personal as if I live in your head. Stop talking about me as if you are trying to argue to mom that I am mean to you. Just cut it out. GROW UP stop talking like a 12 yr. old whining about your sibling.

by artappraiser on Tue, 12/01/2020 - 10:51pm

You have repeated posted about me.

rmrd this

rmrd that

by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/01/2020 - 10:50pm

"rmrd's posting irrelevant off-topic shit on my threads again" is #1, don't recall her showing up to shit on your threads, but if so, you can remind me, I'm sure. Or your duck can send a gif.

by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 6:37pm

As a non voter who doesn't like Biden I feel a non voter Biden hater should be a part of his cabinet to represent my interests. He said he was gonna be a president for all the people didn't he?

by ocean-kat on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 7:13pm

OK pens another fab call to arms -

#MakeAmericaHateAgain

When they call out all the haters, you can bid and take a bow.

#MAHAHA

#BWAHAHA (black white asian hispanic all hate again)

by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 7:23pm

Oh no, the dangers of hubris are well know for so long they're a theme in Greek Mythology. I'm just trying to help. Think of how Biden will have a more modest and humble outlook if there's someone at his side to daily remind him he didn't vote for him and in fact, doesn't like him very much.

by ocean-kat on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 9:00pm

“We should be concerned [when] homicides and shootings increase or spike. I think often times we’re looking for really simple answers to why those things are occurring,” said Loyola Prof. David Olson.https://t.co/u83QHCc0dC
— WBEZ (@WBEZ) November 21, 2020

by artappraiser on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 6:26pm

Chicago’s 11th District has had more fatal shootings this year than in all of Minneapolis or other big cities. https://t.co/BnA1dVLXOn via @SunTimes
— Marlen Garcia (@MarlenGarcia777) November 30, 2020

by artappraiser on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 6:28pm

Jilani says politicians are not being held to account

He then points to an article criticizing politicians for decreasing funding to the Minneapolis PD

There is an article about Chicago which says cash strapped Mayor Lightfoot that she wants to direct funding to a high crime area

We also note that there is no basis for the charge that bail reform resulted in increased crime.

It seems people are looking for solutions

If Jilani has magical solutions, he should offer them up.

by rmrd0000 on Mon, 11/30/2020 - 7:19pm

NYC's Quiet Crisis unless you live in one of its Loud Deadly shooting zones: Homicides up 37 percent on year, 50% over two years. Shootings up 100% and # of shooting victims up 101%, many people with lifelong injuries. (Oh, and shootings are up even compared to TEN years ago)
— Michael Powell (@powellnyt) November 24, 2020

by artappraiser on Tue, 12/01/2020 - 12:58am

We know homicides are increasing

Stop and Frisk angered more people than it prevented crime

Police show up after the homicide, not before

It is unclear what triggered the increase in homicides and how to prevent them.

If homicides decrease after Biden takes office, we will wonder about the role of an autocrat in the increase.

by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/01/2020 - 8:10am

Obama: Broad slogans like "defund the police" lose people

By Sara Fischer @ Axios.com, Dec. 1

Former President Barack Obama told Peter Hamby on the Snapchat original political show "Good Luck America" that "snappy" slogans such as "defund the police" can alienate people, making the statements less effective than intended.

What he's saying: "You lost a big audience the minute you say it, which makes it a lot less likely that you're actually going to get the changes you want done," Obama told Hamby in an interview that will air Wednesday morning at 6 a.m. EST on Snapchat.

"The key is deciding, do you want to actually get something done, or do you want to feel good among the people you already agree with?"

Obama also addressed why President Trump gained support among young Black men this election cycle, saying: “I think men generally are more susceptible to public figures who act tough, try to project a stereotypical macho style. I don't think Black men are immune to that any more than white or Hispanic men are.”

The big picture: The former president is one of a few high-profile Democrats to say that using provocative slogans hurt Democrats in the election.

In an interview with Axios earlier this month, House Majority Whip James Clyburn blamed “sloganeering” for losses.

The Snapchat interview was a part of a larger press tour for the first volume of Obama's new memoir, "A Promised Land."

Obama also acknowledged that younger generations should be elevated more in politics [...]

First noticed the story because I saw that there wa repeat coverage of same story at The Hill, I presume because this has already been a topic of much discussion among their audience:

Agreed.

The helicopter that patrols my neighborhood every night of this week, albeit noisy and annoying, has been a welcomed deterrent to the rampant mass shootings that threaten innocent people.

We need to fix public safety. Not get rid of it.https://t.co/AxPTZ9xbn4
— Pablo Pantoja (@polihist) December 2, 2020

by artappraiser on Tue, 12/01/2020 - 9:58pm

Also Obama from Volume1 of his new book

Recalling the arduous 2008 path that ultimately led to his first term in the White House, Barack Obama writes in his new presidential memoir, A Promised Land,that his campaign was careful to avoid leaning into any issues that might be construed as “racial grievance.” By this, of course, he means Black concerns about the lethal consequences of institutional white supremacist power.

“[T]oo much focus on civil rights, police misconduct or other issues considered specific to Black people risked triggering suspicion, if not a backlash from the broader electorate,” Obama writes. “You might decide to speak up anyway as a matter of conscience, but you understood there’d be a price.”

http://dagblog.com/reader-blogs/obama-speaks-racism-33136

by rmrd0000 on Tue, 12/01/2020 - 10:47pm

Found Yglesias discussing Obama's point with the NYTImes' Astead Herndon and Perry Bacon Jr. on Twitter:

Perry making the impt point: hand wringing abt the alleged ineffectiveness of slogans like defund the police come from electeds or pundits who only see change thru electoral politics. That is not the goal of many activists. They are not setting out to help Dems win elections https://t.co/gUy2AJp2XG
— Steadman™ (@AsteadWesley) December 2, 2020

I get this distinction, but at the same time if you can’t win elections it’s hard to change police funding. https://t.co/EwqK2a0oTm
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) December 2, 2020

Most Democrats felt that the activists who pushed for the Massachusetts Supreme Court to rule in favor of marriage equality hurt them at the polls in 2004.

The activists could say in response that they *actually won marriage equality* which was their focus.
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) December 2, 2020

Ultimately, though, the endgame for the mariage equality litigation strategy was:

— Obama pretends to oppose marriage equality.
— Obama wins the election.
— Obama appointes judges who rule in favor of it.

Politics!
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) December 2, 2020

by artappraiser on Tue, 12/01/2020 - 11:34pm

a related excerpt from his book

Obama’s immediate guess as to the circumstances of Henry Louis Gates being arrested for attempting to enter his home own in July 2009: pic.twitter.com/8B7Aq2pTzE
— Daniel Steinmetz-Jenkins (@daniel_dsj2110) December 1, 2020

by artappraiser on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 3:01am

My, that's not gonna earn Barack many friends.

by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 3:42am

If you read the book, you will understand the full context.

But a snippet from a tweet from some guy on the internet explains it all.

Starts at page 394 on the Kindle version of the book.

Edit to add:

Spoiler alert!

The Cambridge police overreacted

by rmrd0000 on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 8:19am

Well, a black perfesser couldn't be in the wrong

by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 9:35am

good point as the tweeter is just a lowly post-doc in the Hiistory Dept.at Dartmouth, Managing Editor of Modern Intellectual History Journal (A forum for historians of political thought, philosophy, religion, literature, the social and natural sciences, music, architecture, and the visual arts).surely hasn't a clue how to correctly understand words in context.

Denial = a river in Egypt.

Actually, got me thinking how Obama sizes up situations. If you remember that he was raised by a white mother who was sensitive to racial issues, spent grade school years with an Indonesian stepfather with poorer less privileged Indonesian kids all around where he was an American, finished being raised by white grandparents in a multi-culti multi racial private high school in Honolulu. Later he sought out his father's family and learned about the results of tribal behavior in Kenya.

Segregation = not being able to see things from the perspective of everyone involved..Integration = just the opposite.

by artappraiser on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 12:35pm

Have you read Obama's book?

by rmrd0000 on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 12:40pm

again, same old same old from you, what don't you get about how it doesn't matter what pseudonymous artappraiser on dagblog thinks about it?

think about why you are asking that question of me.

I am not Steinmetz-Jenkins. As they say on Twitter "retweet does not mean endorsement".

The more interesting issue and the one of import to reality is not what artappraiser and rmrd think about it but how the big world out there reacts to what Obama wrote and how it reacts to what he is saying publicly now. Even if what catches the zeitgeist.is not what he intended to say.

by artappraiser on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 1:18pm

AA on Steinmetz-Jenkins when I argued about context

good point as the tweeter is just a lowly post-doc in the Hiistory Dept.at Dartmouth, Managing Editor of Modern Intellectual History Journal (A forum for historians of political thought, philosophy, religion, literature, the social and natural sciences, music, architecture, and the visual arts).surely hasn't a clue how to correctly understand words in context.

by rmrd0000 on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 3:03pm

Steinmetz-Jenkins just retweeted another Obama excerpt that he had tweeted nearly a week ago:

Obama on W.E.B. Du Bois and “double consciousness”: pic.twitter.com/NRYjWMSGIG
— Daniel Steinmetz-Jenkins (@daniel_dsj2110) November 26, 2020

and he added this excerpt to follow the first one about Henry Louis Gates:

pic.twitter.com/QUzuvEvV5g
— Daniel Steinmetz-Jenkins (@daniel_dsj2110) December 1, 2020

by artappraiser on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 12:59pm

Snippet tweets are the new standard of scholarship

by rmrd0000 on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 1:13pm

Snippet tweets are like your mother collecting newspaper clippings. Don't talk bad about your mother. No, this is not "scholarship" - it's a blog, thus the name.

by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 1:38pm

also too there's that this thread is on policing, not about all of Obama's book, doh

Which reminds me for some reason (sarcasm intended) of the Yglesia/Herndon/Bacon discussion elsewhere on this thread about purists demanding the whole world change the way they think vs.making some actual basic changes to the way things are done.

by artappraiser on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 1:52pm

really it's truly an aggravating waste of time--why do I have to even explain this after so many years? these news threads are to collate differing takes on a single story that one sees of interest in order to analyze what's going on. everyone is free to add to that. You would thing I'd get some thanks once in a while for sharing all that I see and others pitching in with what they find. BUT NOOOOO, it's "you must agree with this or that for posting that", always trying to figure out what my take is on it. And then fucking wanting to argue about bigger issues ad nauseum, the same old same old. I'm posting what influencers are saying. Don't care to be one myself!

(Those who want to be one are not posting on dagblog, or like to waste their time "winning" a game they play on this site. I can guarantee that on my deathbed I am not going to say "gee, I wish I spent more time pwning rmrd on dagblog")

by artappraiser on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 2:05pm

I started off wanting to be an influencer, and found myself more under the influence. Social media is the opioid of the messes.

by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 2:15pm

In all honesty I started off wanting to be a politician. I wanted to make changes for the better. Luckily I realized before I graduated from high school I didn't have the leadership qualities needed to influence people to follow me.

by ocean-kat on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 2:46pm

I dunno, Moses led them into the desert and they turned out ok - I'm still not sure you found the water yet, but he had 40 years to try.

by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 3:31pm

I've wandered in the desert across the south west. Once in New Mexico to eat a ton of peyote. But alas, no one ever wanted to wander it with me. See? No leadership skills.

But I have always wanted to have so much gold I could waste it by melting it down and making my followers drink it.

by ocean-kat on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 4:17pm

Bleach. Nirvana even had an album for it.

And First Follower. or a West Coast Under Assistant Promotions Man. w/o Saul/Paul, Jesus wouldn't have had a tenth the likes and follows.

Stills, rivers of gold... El Dorado... and a bit of Datura...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLshZGiYN-cEwfCAZsQDK9ym_-uFplLaqn

by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 4:23pm

you expect too much logic from people is your main problem

by artappraiser on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 4:20pm

and this 3 hrs. ago, which I missed at first:

https://t.co/J3M5ftNgwT
— Daniel Steinmetz-Jenkins (@daniel_dsj2110) December 2, 2020

by artappraiser on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 1:46pm

Interesting Obama comment. It could also apply to the homeless and especially the mentally ill homeless and their relationship with the police. That relationship also has a lot to do with our failure to meaningfully address the underlying problems and laying the responsibility on the police.

by ocean-kat on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 2:04pm

I think that's overthinking it. I've had white guys break into my house and into my van. If a cop saw me prying open a door or window, i hope he/she'd verify it was mine. That's a far cry from the obnoxiousness of a cop hassling a black guy cleaning up his yard, or one sitting calmly on a porch waiting for his mother, throwing the latter on the ground. If you make even asking questions verboten, police don't have any way to do their jobs politely and professionally.

The issue with the mentally ill is super complicated. People talk about sending out trained therapists of some sort with the police, but that's a whole new more complex ballgame.

by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 2:09pm

Oh gosh what a surprise NOT, look what's trending nationwide now today in politics topics:

Obama warns activists against using the phrase 'defund the police,' sparking criticism

During an interview on Wednesday, former President Barack Obama referred to the phrase “defund the police” as a “snappy slogan," saying: "you lost a big audience the minute you say it, which makes it a lot less likely that you’re actually going to get the changes you want done." The remarks sparked pushback from the progressive wing of the Democratic party, and sparked a discussion among activists about the true meaning of the slogan.

including full articles at outlets like Politico.

Who told you about it last night? arta did, because she follows "influencers" on Twitter and reposts what she finds that she thinks might be "hot" as to news. Does she ever get thanks for that? Nope she gets grief as if she was trying to push an agenda. Yeah, I have an agenda, an agenda against ignorance about what's going on. An agenda against agitprop cherry picking on dagblog as if one could become an influencer if one just argued with oceankat for enough years about what "the black community" thinks.

Here's my attitude: post articles or tweets, your choice, of a genuine influencer of "the black community" (whatever that is, depends) on the topic related at hand, and I'll genuinely be interested in knowing what that person thinks! On the other hand I have very little interest in what pseudonumous rmrd on dagblog thinks should be done about topic and whether rmrd considers the person friend or foe. I am interested in deconstructing what such an influencer thinks and is saying and why with other minds on dagblog like NCD, Orion pp or oceankat. I am not the least interested in how that affects any of those pseudonymous persons personal politics, that's their own business, why the fuck should I care? (Those that care: if you won an argument with one of those "people", how would you even know they're not lying under the pseudonym? What did you really win?) And least of all: I have zero interest in OGD childish meta of scatological cartoon and gif ratings on comments by as if dagblog posting was a team sport or video game or one was responding to a crazy Drumpf tweet; cough up some kind of content or be considered a peanut gallery to be ignored if not ridiculed.

by artappraiser on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 4:18pm

Black Lives Matter official site, tweeted 3 hrs. ago, I think it is no coincidence that is the same time as the Obama Snapchat with Peter Hambly story trending:

We've been defunding education, housing, and everything else our communities need for years.

We meant what we said

Defund the police

Invest in our communities
— Black Lives Matter (@Blklivesmatter) December 2, 2020

by artappraiser on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 5:53pm

They will have to stop using the phrase

There is pushback from the comments section

by rmrd0000 on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 6:20pm

Well so far: nope, doesn't look very likely. Instead they reiterated strongly, added a tweet after that one. which points to their site defundpolice.org, which is quite elaborate:

https://t.co/NWkhzT8waa #DefundThePolice

While we talking about it.
— Black Lives Matter (@Blklivesmatter) December 3, 2020

by artappraiser on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 3:28am

They are still talking about shifting resources

Eventually, they will adopt the "politically correct" term.

They have defined what they mean

From Charles.Blow in the NYT

Wednesday morning on Peter Hamby’s Snapchat show, “Good Luck America,” Obama said this:

“If you believe, as I do, that we should be able to reform the criminal justice system so that it’s not biased and treats everybody fairly, I guess you can use a snappy slogan like ‘Defund the police,’ but, you know, you lost a big audience the minute you say it, which makes it a lot less likely that you’re actually going to get the changes you want done.”

And

Of course, as a political matter, Obama is right in a way. He is looking at the path to legislative and public opinion success. To take that path, the power structure can’t be so much confronted as coaxed. Those who do not recognize your full humanity must be convinced rather than condemned.

Blow's response

But none of that negates the legitimate cries of the activist that much more must be done, that Obama altered a racial image, for the better, but wasn’t able to alter the system of oppression. That was always too much of an expectation. No one can correct 400 years in eight.

But in their approach, the activists are right. I have no problem with “Defund the police.” I know that it means to reallocate funding so that social services and policing are properly weighted. If people are offended and “lost” because of that, they were actually lost before the phrase was uttered.

Politicians will use the "politically correct" term. Activists will slowly adapt. BLM defined the meaning of the term. Those who are happy with the way things are will use BLM as an excuse to do nothing. Instead of listening to politicians arguing for reform, defund the police will be used to keep the status quo. It is not like politicians have the ability to explain their actions.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/opinion/obama-politics-activism.html

Blow's opinion article reminds us of the role activists played in forcing change. It is useful to remember that voting for change usually results in a loss of political power. Even Obama's baby steps on health care lost seats in Congress.

by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 9:16am

BLM activists have been largely ineffective since their founding 7 1/2a years ago. - it took 3 high profile black abuse incidents in May to raise the oullnational outrage, and it certainly helped that more people were locked in at home this year with more free time on their hands. BLM & Kap couldn't even get take-a-knee accepted for football games. George Floyd, Aubrey and Breonna woke up the issue.

by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 9:46am

If they are so ineffective, their defund the police statement shouldn't matter

by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 9:53am

Your statement that BLM is ineffective does not make BLM ineffective does not make them ineffective.

For example, in LA County, BLM campaigned against a Black DA

The Black DA refused to prosecute cases of police abuse

https://abc7.com/politics/da-jackie-lacey-facing-wavering-support-amid-re-election-bid/6259699/

The newly elected white DA sat down to meet with BLM after the election

https://abc7.com/blm-black-lives-matter-george-gascon-jackie-lacey/7819831/

Im sure this is a head exploding moment for you and your concept of identity politics

by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 10:30am

They were ineffective 7 years, and then by having the best acronym it fell into their laps in May. People don't want anything to do with their Marxist pretentions nor defunding the police - they just needed a hashtag to complain and express shock & outrage over George Floyd and the others.

by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 10:37am

The election tells us that many people are willing to vote for a racist.

King became leader of the SCLC in 1957

We got the Civil Rights Bill in 1964

SCOTUS blew up the Voting Rights Act

Congress has done nothing to make changes, in fact voter suppression is the current mode

SCOTUS is now dominated by Conservatives

I am not surprised by the relatively slow pace.

Edit to add:

In this analysis I am using your time line

I think BLM led to changes in DA elections and police reform.

by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 11:40am

Well I'm doing pretty damn good, cuz Moses, Marco Polo, Mozart, and Ming the Merciless.

by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 12:12pm

"The election tells us that many people are willing to vote for a racist."

Not only that more and more black people, after seeing the racist do racist things for four years, are willing to vote for a racist. When we consider Trump's gains with black people we have to thank god white people moved to Biden or he would have lost the election. What's the issue here? Self loathing black people?

by ocean-kat on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 12:20pm

Polls suggest 12-20% of Black men and 10% of Black women voted for Trump.

The overwhelming majority of Black voters did not vote for Trump.

Note: This data is based on exit polls that could be as bogus as pre-election polling results.

by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 12:45pm

No one is suggesting that all black people are willing to vote for a racist. Only that 12 to 20% of black people are willing to vote for a racist. What I find interesting is that the more black people get to know Trump the more likely they are to be willing to vote for a racist. For white people the more they got to know Trump the less likely they were to vote for a racist.

by ocean-kat on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 12:58pm

White women seemed to like Trump more the second time around

by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 1:06pm

So I guess white men are the most likely to learn and grow while white women and blacks tend to regress. Since white men are the mostly likely to learn shouldn't we focus on them as the way to make the most electoral gains? For all the efforts to reach out to blacks or white women we lost votes with those groups. They became more willing to vote for a racist not less.

by ocean-kat on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 1:33pm

Makes me wonder if you hate the word "outreach" as much as I do. I think of cadres of red guards coming to the doors of the poor unwashed telling them who they must vote for. There's such a condescending air to the whole concept.

by artappraiser on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 1:51pm

Well there are a large number of uneducated voters and personal contact reportedly seems to work with them. I have no idea why they vote the way they do or how to move them to vote for this or that candidate. All I have is some ideas of what is likely to piss them off. One would hope those in the business of swaying them have a better idea than I.

by ocean-kat on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 2:32pm

Obviously, Biden reached out to white men

After 2016, Democrats worried whether they could appeal to enough white working-class Trump voters to win in 2020 without alienating and disrespecting a key Democratic constituency: voters of color.

They just did. Biden won because he won back Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. The percentage of white working class men voting Democratic increased from 23% in 2016 to 28% in 2020, while among white working class women, support for Democrats increased from 34%to 36%. These voters played a key role in delivering victories for Biden in the Rust Belt states where Clinton lost the presidency in 2016.

https://hbr.org/2020/11/how-biden-won-back-enough-of-the-white-working-class

by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 2:06pm

"Obviously, Biden reached out to white men"

And much more successfully than his outreach to black men.Since that outreach resulted in gains with white men and losses with black men wouldn't it make sense to go with what works? Increased outreach to white men would result in greater electoral success than repeating the failed strategy of outreach to black men that simply resulted in greater numbers of black men being willing to vote for a racist.

by ocean-kat on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 2:25pm

I note that besides people like Jim Clyburn and Obama, this other rmrd also saw the problem

They will have to stop using the phrase

There is pushback from the comments section

reply

by rmrd0000 on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 6:20pm

But then he went hunting for some cherries in order to change his mind.

You guys are basically re-arguing what others I cited on this thread already did, including the newly published scholarly study downthread.

I think Yglesias said it best upthread in conversation with Herndon and Bacon.upthread on Tue, 12/01/2020 - 11:34pm

In addition I would just throw in that Yglesias "Politics!" is also how we ended up with the first black president of the United States. For two terms yet.

Comes to mind how a certain person on this forum just couldn't wrap their heads around the idea that so many important swing voters voted for Obama twice and then for Trump. Just couldn't be. Didn't fit the myopic picture of how things are. Further rationalizing that they must all be racists and Democrats don't need them to win.

I don't bring this up to relitigate what has been argued many times before, rather I would like to use this as example of how if one reads cherry-picked news as to a myopic partisan perspective for years on end, one doesn't see reality anymore.

This is the main problem in this country right now, the main problem, the reason for the extreme divisiveness. There's been more than a few social science studies that show if you just sit a divided group down and show them info. from all angles and perspectives, they start to shift and agree more.It would be best if we didn't have people getting all their news from sites like The Root or Breitbart, but here we are. If you are going to use the advocacy method of info., you have to at least do it like they with a jury on a court, they don't allow you to hear only one side of the narrative.

by artappraiser on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 1:21pm

They will have to stop using the phrase

It will not happen overnight

You post tweet snippets from influencers who have zero impact in the real world.

Jilia I has zero real world impact

I have no problem linking to the Root.

People who vote for Trump are willing to overlook his racism

Racism is not a deal breaker

Trump's incompetence is not a deal breaker

I note that activists push Democrats to craft policies

BLM has influenced election of Progressive DAs and discussions of police reform

When Democrats act, they lose votes

Civil Rights Act lost the South

Obamacare lost Democratic seats

by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 1:46pm

Zaid has more he wants to say on topic this evening (and it does in a way get at the same thing addressed in by Obama in his interview and by Yglesias/Herndon/Bacon discussion):

The reality is the vast majority of America's liberal class can tell you with very close attention to detail specific cases of police abuse but can't name a single person who has died in record homicide waves happening across America, when both things obviously should matter.
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) December 2, 2020

This is what happens when human life is politicized and you only pay attention to deaths if they correspond to your political fashions and interests.
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) December 2, 2020

St. Louis and Baltimore were very interesting to liberal talkers when there were viral cases of police abuse. When both places saw massive surges in homicides following reduced policing, those deaths were uninteresting. What can make the lives of poor people more worth attention?
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) December 2, 2020

I tried to write this piece to call attention to it but I just don't think the left side of the aisle at all cares about poor people dying if they can't fit it into a neat political narrative that corresponds with their ideological identities https://t.co/wxbadNL38c
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) December 2, 2020

by artappraiser on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 6:21pm

More Zaid this evening, still on theme of politicizing one kind of death over another that takes far greater numbers and the media, natch follows the emotions of the day; note the first tweet is basically ridiculing an Yglesias essay as "white fancy boy don't get it"

Current Affairs is based in New Orleans, Louisiana. If they want to learn about what constitutes crime and violence prevention, they could just send some reporters out the door, couldn't they? https://t.co/9AvEF3va0b
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) December 3, 2020

I'm not picking on them, a lot of national publications adhere to national trends and memes but aren't as interested in just walking around the location they're based in and figuring out what normies experience and believe
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) December 3, 2020

For instance, NOLA is seeing a spike in murder rate as the city has furloughed police. The clearance rate is going down. That would be an interesting topic to report on, or you could write a philosophy paper about crime? https://t.co/T1YraeuWeX
— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) December 3, 2020

by artappraiser on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 11:23pm

another journalist at The Intercept asks:

Why not just base all U.S. policy on traumatic videos? Definitely the thoughtful way to understand the millions upon millions of police interactions that are not abusive in any way, let's take the viral outliers and make sweeping claims. https://t.co/BuIfqb5VGb
— Lee Fang (@lhfang) December 3, 2020

by artappraiser on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 1:59am

From Harvard researcher Thomas Abt

ABT: If you look at urban violence compared to where we were 25 years, ago we’ve made tremendous progress. Violence has been reduced by about half. But if you look at violence compared to where we were 50 years ago, we’re almost exactly in the same place. And the United States is still an extreme outlier among high-income nations, with a gun violence rate that is several times higher than any other wealthy nation. I believe we can and should do better.

GAZETTE: Part of the solution you advocate involves building trust between police and low-income communities. But that seems a long-term project. What can be done in the short term?

ABT: There are no easy answers when it comes to building trust between law enforcement and poor communities of color. But that doesn’t mean we have to sit on our hands. We have evidence that principles of procedural justice — trust, respect, fairness, openness — can slowly change attitudes and even behaviors over time. In addition, we have to do the hard work of addressing the abuses and overreach in the system itself. There are still too many instances of racial profiling and excessive force. We still over-rely on arrests and incarceration. Building trust requires making progress on all of these fronts. With regard to urban violence, however, the important takeaway is that you can build trust and reduce violence at the same time. Cops and communities all around the country are working together to address high rates of violence despite all the reasons to reject one another.

GAZETTE: You talk a lot about the connection between peace and justice. What is that relationship?

ABT: Protesters commonly chant, “No justice, no peace” and there’s an increasing amount of empirical support evidence to back up that idea. What we’re learning is that when trust in law enforcement declines, community violence goes up. It rises because when people don’t trust the system, they don’t use it. In particular they don’t use it to solve conflict. Instead, they take the law into their hands, and often violently so, creating the cycles of violent retribution we see in so many cities.

The first move is on police departments and politicians. Police walk away when one of their own is charged with police abuse.

by rmrd0000 on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 7:23pm

If the community's killing 300+ of its own a year, why is "the first move" on police and politicians? It's a democracy - first move is for citizens to try to clean up their own shit and use government, including police, to assist. But police aren't for the most part out there to help people kill more - they're answering calls after or as people are going homicidal - picking up the perps. Sure, I'd be reluctant to police with 100x the expectations and post hoc blame-making than the hoods and drunken hopped-up guns-loaded idiots and clinically insane on the street making the mayhem happen. When we talk about military in Iraq, we appreciate the dangers - the militias, the IEDs, the Sunnia-Shia internecine warfare. When we talk about police in US cities, half the time the criminals are absent from the description - it's just police being mean to the community, little thought how scared granny and the pre-schoolers are, how the city can be a jungle.

I remember TPM's Dijamo describing her torturous and frightened walk to and from school each day as a kid, dealing with the druggies and local hoods. In the BLM part fairy tale, the community's rough but blameless, George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and Rayshard happened because police are driving around looking for a fight - *they're* the total problem. Would servicemen go for duty if they were called to a board of inquiry with the presumption of dereliction of duty for every shooting they were near, even as local militia killings heat up? What balance of perspective of what should be, mapping out the dangers and complexities on all sides?

by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 9:39pm

What should her family have done to improve the situation?

by rmrd0000 on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 9:50pm

Warn siblings, keep everyone off door, away from gangs, away from arrest situations, keep head low, study hard, vote for people with solutions... Maybe the community can do a better job promoting STEM and medical and business success, rather than biased towards ego-driven music and sports and political heroes, in my white-boy way of thinking. I mean, i like Kid Rock and Eminem's music both, but I wouldn't my kids thinking either was their major outlet tor only path to a career or philosophical thinking, even if they joined that industry. I mean, where the fuck's the black Andrew Yang, to be blunt? Where are the blacks who build things - construction sure, but on top of that career ladder, the designer, not the day laborer. Who's the black Ted Turner or Michael Bloomberg (ok, Oprah's a bit similar, but she sells herself, not 24x7 cable news or business news with high margins - a marketable new service). Where's the black Uber or AirBnb? The Green Book was brilliant 60-80 years ago - what's the equivalent level of community-focused innovation in the internet age?

by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 12/02/2020 - 10:28pm

https://www.goldengroomingco.com/blogs/news/10-black-men-that-give-back-to-the-community

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/10/01/916272046/in-philadelphia-black-doctors-bring-coronavirus-tests-to-street-corners-and-chur

https://www.statnews.com/2020/09/21/black-doctors-group-creates-panel-to-vet-covid19-vaccines/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/12/education/lebron-james-school-ohio.html

https://www.vix.com/en/apps-internet/527184/5-websites-and-apps-make-it-easy-support-black-owned-businesses

Use the Google

by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 8:17am

I provided links because there were so many disgusting stereotypes in your post,

I provided a link to an article by Thomas Abt about the need for trust between the black community and the police.

Police are needed, but they are not trusted

When the black community asked for crime to be addressed under Bill Clinton, they got mass incarceration.

Police reform is the rate limiting step in any change.

Hopefully, the Biden administration will bring back DOJ efforts to address police abuse that were removed under Jeff Sessions.

by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 11:16am

Bill Clinton worked with black leaders to find a suitable approach. Share the blame - it was a shitty peak-crime situation, and no one had great solutions. Blaming the president for a group decision is idiocy and shamefulness of the highest magnitude.

Police were always dicks - everyone knows that. A bit less dick ish is the real-world goal.

by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 12:19pm

Obviously the Black community made the plea

When the black community asked for crime to be addressed under Bill Clinton, they got mass incarceration.

Congressman Bobby Rush

In an emotional interview on MSNBC, Wednesday, April 13, Congressman Bobby Rush, who has endorsed Hillary Clinton, apologizes to his community for his vote in favor of the 1994 crime bill.

“I am ashamed of my vote. I sincerely apologize to my God; I apologize to my family, to my community. That was my worst vote, as I look back over the years, that I have taken since I’ve been in Congress,” said Rush.

https://www.essence.com/news/congressman-bobby-rush-feels-ashamed-voting-1994-crime-bill/

by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 1:01pm

"Maybe the community can do a better job promoting STEM and medical and business success, rather than biased towards ego-driven music and sports"

https://www.goldengroomingco.com/blogs/news/10-black-men-that-give-back-to-the-community

"I provided links because there were so many disgusting stereotypes in your post,"

If there are stereotypes your link didn't challenge them. Your link supported them. 7 of 10 of the black men listed in your link are rappers. 1 is a NBA athlete, 1 a comedian, and 1 a movie star.

"Use the Google"

It's not enough to google up links. You have to read them and verify they support the point you're trying to make.

by ocean-kat on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 12:52pm

I'm not in the business of trying to convert people.

by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 12:54pm

If you respond to a post you should be in the "business" of defending your views in rational debate. But as I've said before you don't. You use people's posts as a hook to attach your links in ways that don't address their post or to debate a strawman you created instead of the ideas they actually posted. This is just one more example of that.

by ocean-kat on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 1:05pm

Nah

Not participating in Argument Clinic today

by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 1:08pm

Play the game how ever you want. Just don't be surprised or upset when people call you out for the disingenuous way you play it.

by ocean-kat on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 1:23pm

People giving back to the community

Edit to add:

I put as much work into my post as PP did for his

No.Black philanthropists anywhere

Tiresome

by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 2:07pm

No, you phoned it in. Lazy as fuck, not even an attempt to write well. No entertainment value, 0 fucking humor, just regurgitation of same old talking points. And you like spreading this shit around all the threads - you're the advocate, but you don't actually want to advocate, you just want to be believed.

Even your Congressman quote is dumb - what the hell is he gonna do, defend his vote while he's getting all kinds of shit? Just fall on that sword, apologize however insincerely, and hope you survive the mob. I've seen you play this same game before - they're not cancelled because they muttered a word or two.

by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 2:29pm

Your answer to what a family should do to protect themselves.............duck

Warn siblings, keep everyone off door, away from gangs, away from arrest situations, keep head low

Wow, no one would have EVER thought of that genius move.

Edit to add:

Just like violent video games, rap caused that crime.

by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 2:52pm

So how's the community gonna reform itself?

by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 2:52pm

The criminals need reform. The "citizens" are fine. The citizens need to trust the police. Police need to be held to account. When the police say, if you hold us to account, we will stop doing our jobs, the social contract is broken. The first move is on the police. The citizens are ducking.

by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 3:07pm

Criminals are citizens too. How do you "reform" them? People been talking about that for ages.
But still, are we gonna wait til crime is cured before we figure out how black families put together more than 7% the wealth of white families, or whatever the abysmal figure is? That'll be a long long time.
But sure, wait for the police to make their move - that'll fix things for blacks in a jiffy.

by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 3:19pm

If criminal are going to criminal, you remove them from the neighborhood

Community trust of the police is essential to report suspicious activity

Do you think a neighbor of the late Breonna Taylor is going to call the police if they see something suspicious?

The police need to improve their image.

You move to poverty, which would be a totally different post

by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 3:51pm

Oh yeah, just remove all the criminals.
(but don't do mass incarceration)
Wonder why they didn't think of that earlier...

by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 3:56pm

What I really don't get, big picture: if activists can't sell very friendly liberals on Dagblog of their arguments, or friendly liberal influencers with huge audiences on Twitter, why do they think they'll get anywhere with the rest of this country and its lawmakers? It seems to me as if the only audience that likes the whole official BLM line is the activists themselves combined with a a large segment of well-off white educated millennials and younger. And the rest of us just get aggravated. WAY TO GO: nowhere.Preaching to the choir gets you: a choir. Pissing off fellow dagbloggers: less than a choir; I certainly wouldn't hire such a person as an activist if I was trying to accomplish something. Just the opposite, would hire that person to quash a movement.

by artappraiser on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 4:18pm

More horse crap...

Criminals are citizens too. How do you "reform" them?

In SoCal the Sheriff's simply putt bullets in their backs.

Autopsy results confirm Andres Guardado was shot in the back

The Los Angeles County medical examiner confirmed that 18-year-old Andres Guardado, who was shot and killed by Southern California sheriff's deputies, was shot five times in the back, as his family had previously said. Homicide investigators claimed the teenager was shot in the upper torso, however they did not specify where on the torso Guardado was hit. The report listed Guardado's death as a homicide. The release of the autopsy results caused a backlash among officials.

~OGD~

by oldenGoldenDecoy on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 1:39pm

So all (suspected) criminals in LA are shot in the back? Or this particular case represents roughly what percentage of police shootings, and what percent are never apprehended?

And do you think these shootees are not citizens? And is a bullet sufficient for "reform"?

by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 1:50pm

Just more . . .

...diversionary horse crap,

~OGD

by oldenGoldenDecoy on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 2:14pm

Such a brilliant comment the likes of which I have never seen before on the internet. I'm curious: why do you think a person using a pseudonym would care that another person using a pseudonym has said this about his comment? What do you call this game you are playing? Do you have any interest in news and analysis as well?

by artappraiser on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 2:19pm

I used to live near a pond. My dog used to love rolling in duck shit on the banks. Not too smelly, not too serious, but still, a mess to clean out of its fur, not terribly pleasant.

I like ducks okay, but the way they leave their shit everywhere, well, I'd prefer they didn't. But those ducks didn't listen much to me.

Still, this ain't a pond. And a fake duck that still leaves its shit around - well, we can do better.

by PeraclesPlease on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 2:52pm

maybe the worst advocate for BLM EVAH. Can't manage to do anything but piss off liberal friendlies on Dagblog. If he had kept his mouth shut on the issue, we might all have much more approval for it. I guess we should be grateful?

by artappraiser on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 4:23pm

P.S. I find this is healthy to rewatch, it's good reminder of a sane person on racial issues who got elected by a majority of citizens, and has actuall power to represent her whole community, they're out there. This is what I meant about his posting being insidious: if you spend too much time taking him seriously, you start to get fucked up about reality an believe he represents somebody other than himself, since he talks like he does.

by artappraiser on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 4:31pm

What's she doing for these runoffs? Sitting it out? Active campaigning? Wonder how she's phrasing things in the midst of more crazy.

by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 4:46pm

aside from the political I see this related, she knows the life, not raised a princess.

by artappraiser on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 5:14pm

PP,. my uppity black lesbian curator friend on Twitter (who has 28K followers) just retweeted this by another gal who has 50K followers

All in STEM looking for jobs, particularly those from minoritized groups, please shoot your shot in this thread! What/where is your DREAM job? I want to lend my network to you. TAG, BRAG, and GET THAT BAG! Employers, pay attention to this thread! Go! #ShootYourShotSaturday
— Raven the Science Maven (@ravenscimaven) December 5, 2020

I'm just doing it to show you and others here that you may have a better bead on what's on the mind of "the black community", whatever that is, of course, than one person on Dagblog using the pseudonym rmrd. And that cries of racism here on Dag by one pseudonym should be taken with very much salt as to representing the views of anyone else or the zeitgeist in general.

by artappraiser on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 5:24pm

Tamika Mallory loves Farrakhan and she has 147.4K followers

Dr. Umar Johnson is big time Hotep and has 140.6K followers

Ibram X Kendi has 347.2K followers, let's follow his point of view

Edit to add:

Coleman Hughes has 149K followers

Kendi is better than Coleman

Note: if Twitter is not your Holy Grail, you don't count

Edit to add 2

Donald Trump has 88.7M followers

Joe Biden has 20.6M followers

What?

Biden got 7M more votes than Trump in the real world!

by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 5:52pm

ok as an alternate PP could reference this instead from March 26, 2010 @ diverseeducation.com by Dr. Ibram X. Kendi , ten years ago already.

by artappraiser on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 6:29pm

Where was the argument that STEM was not important?

by rmrd0000 on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 6:49pm

FWIW meanwhile, Yglesias is getting bombarded on Twitter by supporters of "defund" or "abolish" especially as regards "activism":

I feel like I have said this many time’s today but my view is that the problem with “defund the police” is that it’s a bad idea not that it’s a bad slogan. Or rather what’s bad about the slogan is that the idea it expresses is bad. https://t.co/QenBcvizk8
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) December 3, 2020

I like that on Twitter “police should not be abolished” counts as a trollish take. I think I have a very boring and widely held view on this. https://t.co/ByV6oyy0W7
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) December 3, 2020

I see way too many people use “hey look it’s activism” as a kind of all-purpose rebuttal to criticisms of people for advancing confused or erroneous ideas, and I sincerely do not believe that this is how effective movements for beneficial change work.
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) December 3, 2020

These were little slogans that fit on signs not detailed policy papers, but they all make perfect sense. pic.twitter.com/EE1qNSbceB
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) December 3, 2020

My least favorite Twitter is when people dunk on me for ignorantly claiming something I never in fact claimed pic.twitter.com/BM1dXiiaRY
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) December 3, 2020

by artappraiser on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 1:00am

Noah Smith of Bloomberg:

Police are not going away. But defunding police -- by switching some policing functions to unarmed responders -- is a good idea. And having police do foot patrols and sit in police boxes instead of answering 911 calls is another good idea.https://t.co/uOXmZDWkWR
— Noah Smith (@Noahpinion) December 3, 2020

by artappraiser on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 2:54am

Response to PP above about removing criminals.

The trouble makers are a relatively small group.

The shooters are a very small minority

Mass incarceration is something very different

Note: It appears AA thinks that I want to convince her of something

I will again point out that I really don't care what PP or AA think

We get tweet snippets here on dagblog

Out in the real world, people are attempting to solve issues

Balancing need for police versus holding police to account is not easy

Mistakes will be made, like we hear from Bobby Rush

Sitting on the sidelines while influencers send criticism from tweet snippets is easy.

If convincing people is the goal, how is it that BLM is a known entity while Thomas Chatterton Williams, Coleman Hughes, Glenn Loury, and John McWhorter have a very small audience?

Loury, McWhorter, et al repeatedly admit that their message doesn't travel well among their students.

by rmrd0000 on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 5:22pm

"Defund the police" does not have a messaging problem. It has a utopian pseudo-solution that will definitely make things worse problem.
— Wesley Yang (@wesyang) December 3, 2020

By all means accountability for bad actors + exploring less punitive approaches to public safety + addressing social problems before they become public safety problems...
— Wesley Yang (@wesyang) December 3, 2020

But the headlong rush to radical action will invariably mean this: https://t.co/vgrv7RSBCH
— Wesley Yang (@wesyang) December 3, 2020

https://t.co/kElYVOPiRT
— Wesley Yang (@wesyang) December 3, 2020

We know what it means in practice because it was put into practice https://t.co/PSuAJDF8KI
— Wesley Yang (@wesyang) December 3, 2020

more interesting discussion follows

by artappraiser on Thu, 12/03/2020 - 5:56pm

related study as to "biased information processing"

.@FabianNeuner, @jmping, & I are happy to share "Seeing Blue in Black and White: Race and Perceptions of Officer-Involved Shootings," out today @ Perspectives on Politics (@PoPpublicsphere). https://t.co/h4hZAc2vUr pic.twitter.com/zvI1YraBOE
— Hakeem Jefferson (@hakeemjefferson) December 4, 2020

We began this project shortly after #MichaelBrown was killed in #Ferguson. Data we collected then showed great divergence in Black & white Americans' reactions to Brown's death. This divergence was most pronounced among those who reported having heard the most about the incident. pic.twitter.com/lmHYgrS47t
— Hakeem Jefferson (@hakeemjefferson) December 4, 2020

We set out to unpack the mechanisms that explain this racial divide using a novel scenario in which we present respondents with a fictitious officer-involved shooting and examine their reactions to information about the incident. (Example of one witness statement in screenshot) pic.twitter.com/bfrFYfxKpg
— Hakeem Jefferson (@hakeemjefferson) December 4, 2020

We suspected going in that the racial divide results from biased information processing, and set out to examine two mechanisms we believe could underlie this process. Specifically, we examine what we term "race-based motivated reasoning" & updating from racially distinct priors. pic.twitter.com/g8bKsZFYkm
— Hakeem Jefferson (@hakeemjefferson) December 4, 2020

Here's a snapshot of what we find. We find limited evidence that Blacks & whites diverge b/c they are acting in defense of their racial identities. Priming respondents' racial identities does not exacerbate divide, though strength of identification does moderate some reactions. pic.twitter.com/GHiPnGu3fq
— Hakeem Jefferson (@hakeemjefferson) December 4, 2020

In line with a motivated reasoning framework, Black and white respondents report wanting to read different additional information, when given the opportunity to do so (i.e. selective exposure). Contra MR, we find respondents incorporate new information in their summary judgments.
— Hakeem Jefferson (@hakeemjefferson) December 4, 2020

But recall, we are skeptical of claims that all divides between groups result from MR & test whether this divide stems from racial diffs in beliefs & expectations abt criminal justice system & likely culpability of Black victims. Indeed, we find substantial evidence of this. pic.twitter.com/ZiGaHjiwY6
— Hakeem Jefferson (@hakeemjefferson) December 4, 2020

As we conclude in the paper, we think this work has significant implications for the meting out of justice in diverse societies and highlights the multiple ways that identities can affect how individuals perceive and make sense of the world around them. pic.twitter.com/P7Xoek4NrX
— Hakeem Jefferson (@hakeemjefferson) December 4, 2020

We really hope that you will read, cite, and share this piece. Here's a link that everybody should be able to access: https://t.co/bhbY7tqHRF
— Hakeem Jefferson (@hakeemjefferson) December 4, 2020

by artappraiser on Fri, 12/04/2020 - 5:10pm

One fun thing about the "defund the police" discourse is that the actual policy of the Democratic Party is to give cities enough aid to avoid cop layoffs, while the actual policy of the GOP is to reduce the number of working police officers in the U.S.https://t.co/3iU05Id3Mm pic.twitter.com/Uuc6U7rAWw
— Eric Levitz (@EricLevitz) December 4, 2020

by artappraiser on Sat, 12/05/2020 - 1:59am

In the News

Russia plays weak hand in Palestine
Russia plays weak hand in Palestine

submitted by PeraclesPlease 10 months ago

The intra-Palestinian meeting in Moscow has precedent

Russia's hosted such meetings in the past, most recently Feb 2019

Russia has long lamented the US' "monopolization" of the peace process & tried to carve out a niche for itself: mediating among the disunited Palestinians/2
— Hanna Notte (@HannaNotte) February 29, 2024

Read the article at https://twitter.com/HannaNotte/status/1763116222256701787

Add new comment
Mother Jones is Reaching out to Alternative Party Voters
Mother Jones is Reaching out to Alternative Party Voters

submitted by HSG 10 months ago

Here's what I told them: https://halginsberg.com/vote-for-jill-stein-again/

Read the article at https://halginsberg.com/vote-for-jill-stein-again/

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Controversial Brazil law curbing Indigenous rights comes...
Controversial Brazil law curbing Indigenous rights comes into force

submitted by artappraiser 12 months ago

Controversial Brazil law curbing Indigenous rights comes into force https://t.co/pCoDg05irX
— Gareth Harris (@garethharr) December 28, 2023

Read the article at https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/28/brazil-law-indigenous-land-rights-claim-time-marker?CMP=share_btn_tw

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Security Alert: U.S. Embassy Port-au-Prince, Haiti (...
Security Alert: U.S. Embassy Port-au-Prince, Haiti (December 25, 2023)

submitted by artappraiser 12 months ago

Location: U.S. Embassy and residential compounds

Events: Heavy gunfire is occuring around the area of the U.S. Embassy and residential compounds adjacent to the Trutier area of Tabarre. All Embassy personnel have been instructed to remain indoors and shelter-in-place until further notice. All others should avoid the area.

Actions to take:

Avoid the area;

Avoid demonstrations and any large gatherings of people;

Do not attempt to drive through roadblocks; and

If you encounter a roadblock, turn around and get to a safe area.

Read the article at https://ht.usembassy.gov/security-alert-u-s-embassy-port-au-prince-haiti-december-25-2023/

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Pakistan Is Creating the World’s Next Refugee Crisis
Pakistan Is Creating the World’s Next Refugee Crisis

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

By The Editorial Board @ Bloomberg.com, December 8, 2023

A mass expulsion of Afghan migrants could destabilize the region and fuel radicalization. The West should pressure Islamabad to change course.

Read the article at https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-12-08/pakistan-s-expulsion-of-afghan-refugees-risks-another-crisis

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Internet shut down in Chad
Internet shut down in Chad

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

All eyes on #Chad right now
Chad has two internet trunks coming into the country: One from the Red Sea via Sudan; the other from Cameroon. Not possible for the totality of the country's internet network to be shut unless done centrally. A lot of rumors swirling; few facts. https://t.co/N6bDJZ2ixO

Read the article at https://x.com/_hudsonc/status/1732891968709992511?s=20

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[Economy] where Joe's success falls short
[Economy] where Joe's success falls short

submitted by PeraclesPlease 1 year ago

Read the article at

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[CRIME News] 3 loss-prevention employees in Macy’s across...
[CRIME News] 3 loss-prevention employees in Macy’s across the street from Philadelphia City Hall stabbed

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

BREAKING: Three loss prevention employees in Macy’s across the street from Philadelphia City Hall stabbed, one of them has died from stab wounds, @PhillyPolice sources tell me. Police converged on the store as the three workers were rushed to Jefferson Hospital. pic.twitter.com/4U1eKycL4W

Read the article at https://x.com/KeeleyFox29/status/1731713272942940365?s=20

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Former U.S. Ambassador Arrested, Charged With Working As...
Former U.S. Ambassador Arrested, Charged With Working As Secret Agent For Cuba

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

Former US Ambassador Arrested, Charged With Working As Secret Agent For Cuba https://t.co/LDwo4ZJI1K
— HuffPost (@HuffPost) December 4, 2023

Read the article at https://www.huffpost.com/entry/manuel-rocha-ambassador-arrested-cuba_n_656d1e2ae4b028b0f3d07478

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[War in Israel, Chapter II] UNRWA under scrutiny
[War in Israel, Chapter II] UNRWA under scrutiny

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

[Chapter I news is HERE, Oct. 7 til today]

You don’t get it.
It’s not about an UNRWA teacher who held an Israeli kid hostage in his house.
It’s all about how for 75 years you have destroyed the future of generations of Palestinians, including my family.
My cousins in Arab countries are still not citizens - not even the… https://t.co/nv6anubGhc
— George Deek (@GeorgeDeek) December 2, 2023

Note 'Community Notes' attached to UNWRA's statement.

Read the article at https://x.com/GeorgeDeek/status/1731020551328579863?s=20

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Maduro, Under Pressure, Holds Vote to Annex Territory From...
Maduro, Under Pressure, Holds Vote to Annex Territory From a Neighbor

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

Imperialism for me but not for thee?

It's wild that Venezuela is now holding a vote on whether 2/3 of Guyana actually belongs to them! Analysts suggest that Modoru may want military action to pump up his sinking popularity.

Could we have a war in South America?!?

"The people who live in Essequibo are largely… pic.twitter.com/QvMEjkkgwy

Read the article at https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/03/world/americas/maduro-vote-essequibo-guyana.html

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[Where is the GOP headed?] Divisions leave Florida’s House...
[Where is the GOP headed?] Divisions leave Florida’s House Republicans powerless

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

The lack of a cohesive delegation has allowed attention-seeking lawmakers to act on their own.

McCarthy: “You have [Rep. Matt] Gaetz, who belongs in jail…”

Gaetz: “Tough words from a guy who sucker punches people in the back. The only assault I committed was against Kevin’s fragile ego.”https://t.co/LctPuz6Pcf

Read the article at https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/29/divisions-leave-floridas-house-republicans-powerless-00129200

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‘She got so mad at me’: book on the ‘Squad’ details AOC-...
‘She got so mad at me’: book on the ‘Squad’ details AOC-Pelosi clashes

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

By Martinn Pengelly in Washington DC for TheGuardian.com, Nov. 30

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tells Ryan Grim life in Congress ‘completely transformed’ after Democratic leader stepped down

Read the article at https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/nov/30/squad-book-aoc-nancy-pelosi?CMP=share_btn_tw

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US health insurers Humana, Cigna in talks to merge -source
US health insurers Humana, Cigna in talks to merge -source

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

@ Reuters, Nov. 29

Read the article at https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/us-health-insurers-humana-cigna-talks-merge-wsj-2023-11-29/

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Central Africa’s dinosaur regimes and the art of coup-...
Central Africa’s dinosaur regimes and the art of coup-proofing

submitted by artappraiser 1 year ago

"Both the AU and the intl community place more weight on whether elections are held than whether they are free and fair. Sanctions/expulsions occur when there is a coup but not necessarily when elections are rigged or if an “institutional coup” occurs." https://t.co/m9dNimJP0D
— Cameron Hudson (@_hudsonc) November 28, 2023

Read the article at https://africanarguments.org/2023/11/central-africas-dinosaur-regimes-and-the-art-of-coup-proofing/

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