MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
BLM activist and small business owner calls out African-Americans, including establishment Black Churches, who support the "white moderate" over Dr. King's true spiritual heir.
Comments
"Maybe we’ve forgotten the role the Clintons played in accelerating and deepening the problem of mass incarceration with their “tough on crime” agenda that has disproportionately caged Black people. Maybe we’ve forgotten the role the Clintons played in recreating a welfare system deeply divided along racial biases with more punitive penalties for Black people."
Brilliant, Hal - point #1 - back in 1992, blacks weren't only the leading killers, they were the leading killed, as you can see from the graphs below. Anything to add to that discussion? What was/is your solution to get that 1992 peak to fall? Yes, other kinds of crime peaked in 1992 as well - and no one suffered more than the black community. I'm not thrilled with the 3 strikes/mass incarceration - but it also pisses me off the people who bitch about it with absolutely no fucking alternatives given to a horrifying debilitating problem.
Similar with welfare, point #2 - in this American Prospect piece, they note:
It's rather infantile to mention the draconian cures for these to crises without ever noting the crises themselves. Black leaders supported the Clinton anti-crime bill - Bernie Sanders voted for it. And Clinton went out on a limb to try to fix 2 tough problems, and stands first in line for criticism. Certainly not out of self-gain, nor racism (his economic measures gave blacks a better position at the table in terms of home ownership, jobs including access to middle class jobs, and heightened presence at all levels of government).
So tell me what he should have done.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 9:09am
Bernie Sanders voted for the onerous 1994 Crime bill. He is the only Presidential candidate who voted for the bill. Cara McClure ignores that fact in her "letter". Michelle Alexander, the author of "The New Jim Crow", also omits Bernie's vote in her attack on the Clintons and the crime bill. Both McClure and Alexander make elegant arguments against Hillary Clinton. The assumption is that Bernie Sanders now represents the hope for the black community. Why should the default position be for blacks to support Bernie Sanders? What has Sanders done?
If Sanders is such a Civil Rights force, where are all his Civil Rights supporters? Did a Sanders make a point to stand beside the Congressional Black Caucus. Trayvon Martin's mother, Sabrina Fulton, met with Hillary Clinton in November 2015. Clinton actually listened to proposals made by mothers who lost sons to violence.Hillary came across as a caring person able to take on the gun lobby. Sabrina Fulton supports Hillary because of her stance on guns. Interestingly, one lawyer for Trayvon Martin's family, Natalie Jackson, supports Bernie because she feels he will challenge institutional racism. I have not seen Natalie Jackson questioned about Sanders pro-gun positions.
Bernie Sanders voted for the onerous 1994 Crime bill. He is the only Presidential candidate who voted for the bill. Cara McClure ignores that fact in her "letter". Michelle Alexander, the author of "The New Jim Crow", also omits Bernie's vote in her attack on the Clintons and the crime bill. Both McClure and Alexander make elegant arguments against Hillary Clinton. The assumption is that Bernie Sanders now represents the hope for the black community. Why should the default position be for blacks to support Bernie Sanders? What has Sanders done?
If Sanders is such a Civil Rights force, where are all his Civil Rights supporters? Did a Sanders make a point to stand beside the Congressional Black Caucus. Trayvon Martin's mother, Sabrina Fulton, met with Hillary Clinton in November 2015. Clinton actually listened to proposals made by mothers who lost sons to violence.Hillary came across as a caring person able to take on the gun lobby. Sabrina Fulton supports Hillary because of her stance on guns. Interestingly, one lawyer for Trayvon Martin's family, Natalie Jackson, supports Bernie because she feels he will challenge institutional racism. I have not seen Natalie Jackson questioned about Sanders pro-gun positions.
Sanders voted against the Iraq invasion, but has supported other military adventures as well as spending on unnecessary weapons systems. He may not be the white knight many hope for.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/12/why-bernie-sanders-is-no-great-wh...
Bernie loves defense weapons boondoggles if they are based in Vermont.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/09/bernie-sanders-loves-th...
The way things stand now, I still see Hillary as being the candidate better able to withstand the wingnut assault. Sanders is promising to raise middle class taxes and admits that much of what he wants to accomplish will take decades. We will see if South Carolina feels the Bern.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 12:14pm
Careful - Rubiotics is contagious ;-)
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 12:27pm
Oops
My Rick Perry impression
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 3:15pm
Thoughts on the Coates endorsement? You've praised him here. You've criticized Sanders for not embracing reparations explicitly. Yet now we know Coates supports Sanders enthusiastically. Does that change your perspective on the Democratic candidates? If not, why not?
by HSG on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 3:16pm
See fuller answer below.
Coates has abandoned a strong support of reparations by endorsing Sanders. Sanders has the same position as Obama and. Clinton.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 3:30pm
Ta-Nehisi Coates just endorsed Bernie. I think his candidacy "is awesome" Coates told Amy Goodman.
by HSG on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 1:11pm
Coates was influenced by his son and has questions about Hillary's honesty. I understand his position.
Hillary met with mothers who lost sons to violence, sent workers to Flint, and went to Flint. Bernie is just setting up an office in Flint. Still not feeling the Bern. I have a single vote. If minority voters start feeling the Bern and he becomes the candidate, I will vote for him. I simply don't see Sanders getting much done in Congress, while I see Hillary more capable of maneuvering around the wingnuts.
People who have had direct contact with Hillary describe hear as a down to earth, funny, and caring person. If I was going to pick the person who get irritated easily, it would be Bernie.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 3:28pm
So, if people whom you have previously praised take a position with which you reflexively disagree, rather than reconsider your own views, you reject the former object of your admiration. That's fine. You are free to reject Coates since you don't like the fact that he thinks Sanders would be a much better President for African Americans than Clinton.
You've got to admit though that with support from BLM, Coates, Cornel West, and the NAACP, lots of influencers from disparate backgrounds and with different views within the African-American community disagree with you. Isn't it quite likely that many more blacks will come to agree with them than you thought?
by HSG on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 3:46pm
Wow, where'd you get that? He just said he knows where Coates got his opinion from, and that if more minorities hop on, he's likely to as well. How is that "rejection"? RMRD follows a lot of people - he can't jump boat when any 1 of them goes somewhere else - he'd have to split into 12 pieces.
I still reject your claiming that Bernie has "support from BLM" - he has 1 specific guy (Shaun King) that you mentioned, I'm sure a few others, but certainly he doesn't have an endorsement from "BLM", even though the Sanders team is getting good at claiming endorsements where none exist - unions, newspapers, movements... what's the NAACP bit, a former NAACP head is endorsing Sanders, so you'll act like you can use "NAACP" as in his corner? The Vegas unions are already pissed that Sanders people snuck into work places to organize without permission. What other tricks can we expect from the "first honest campaign ever"?
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 4:31pm
While he has decided to personally support and vote for Sanders, Coates is being very clear that he is not endorsing his campaign.
by barefooted on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 4:50pm
I said if Sanders becomes the candidate, I will support him. I admit that I see disaster written all over him if he is the candidate, but that is me with my single vote.
What is hilarious is that in the 1990s most black leaders agreed with the crime bill. Sanders voted for the crime bill , yet Hillary alone carries the baggage. I had a different feel with Obama than I do with Sanders. At the end of the day, Sanders is running as the anti-Obama, promising to raise taxes, and openly stating that a lot of stuff is not going to be immediately possible. Sanders has been on the side with gun manufacturers, defense contractors, and No Child Left Behind.
Sanders still sees economics as trumping race. When I read and listen to the two-part interview with Coates on Democracy Now, He admits that despite the social safety net in France, the problem of racism is still not overcome. I think Sanders has a blind spot. He is just not connecting with me and my single vote at this point.
I see Sanders getting ripped apart when it comes to explaining how he is going to pay for single-payer, free college, etc.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 4:50pm
Some fair criticisms here. I will address them:
1) I wrongly wrote RMRD "rejected" Coates. RMRD did not reject Coates. RMRD did suggest that Coates has backed away from his strong stance in favor of reparations but that cannot reasonably be considered a rejection.
2) I wrongly wrote that Coates endorsed Sanders. Coates is voting for Sanders and he did express a good deal of enthusiasm for Sanders campaign.
3) BLM is not endorsing any candidate. A number of its activists are supporting Sanders but some support Hillary as well. Join Campaign Zero - an offshoot - rates Sanders higher but that hardly counts as an endorsement and in any case, Join Campaign Zero is not BLM.
4) Regarding Clinton's trip to Flint, I do believe RMRD is freighting it with more significance than it deserves but of course he has the right to do that. The visit was perceived by some as a way for her to get out of Dodge, er New Hampshire, where things weren't going well and to change the narrative. The quotes from residents show that at least some of them perceived the trip as politically motivated.
Okay, that does it for now. I am working on a long blog on the significance of New Hampshire and where the Democratic race is now. I hope to post it by this evening.
by HSG on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 5:13pm
Regarding Flint, it seems some residents are less enthusiastic about Mrs. Clinton's visit than you are.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/07/flint-water-crisis-hillar...
by HSG on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 4:12pm
See, Hal, finding an article where two people are quoted who aren't excited about Hillary's visit doesn't mean there is nobody in Flint excited about Hillary's visit.
Now go ask those same two people if they're excited about Bernie setting up a headquarters there. See what their answer is then.
(This is what I mean by "specious".)
by Ramona on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 4:20pm
The church where Hillary appeared was packed
Here are other comments from the article to give a more balanced picture
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 5:08pm
If she didn't show up it would be Hillary doesn't care. If she does it's just for the entertainment.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 5:16pm
Bernie had the entertainment covered by doing SNL.
by barefooted on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 5:22pm
Rachel Maddow says that voter turnout was up in Iowa and New Hampshire. The increase was solely on the Republican side. Democratic voter turnout was down in Iowa and New Hampshire. Sanders won young Democratic voters in New Hampshire by a "yuge" margin, but the turnout of young Democrats was down. I'm waiting for the segment to show up on MSNBC.com to track down her sources. If true, Sanders did not attract the expected volume of young voters pulling the lever for the Democratic Party.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 10:10pm
You're surprised? After each, once the numbers came in it was reported exactly as Rachel stated. If anyone can be credited for increased turnout, it's Trump (though it didn't work as planned in Iowa).
by barefooted on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 10:20pm
Iowa's caucus lasts all day long. Not only is it confusing but to participate you have to take a day off of work. Iowa is indicative of nothing.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 10:57pm
The caucus in Iowa begins at 7 PM (ET) when the doors close. How long it goes on is basically up to the caucus goers, but it doesn't last all day - unless you just feel like hanging around 'til the official start.
by barefooted on Thu, 02/11/2016 - 12:45am
Really? I thought I read somewhere differently. Maybe it was some caucus in a different state or maybe I misread it entirely. I'll take your word for it since I don't care much about caucuses in general and don't pay all that much attention to the details.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 02/11/2016 - 12:57am
Not paying attention is what doomed Clinton in 2008. There are many caucus states to go, including Nevada, and their delegates matter. Ask Obama.
Edit: There's a big difference between candidates and observers! ;-)
by barefooted on Thu, 02/11/2016 - 1:09am
Well of course I'd pay attention to the details if I lived in a caucus state. And I hope her campaign is paying better attention than they did in 08. Looking in from another state I just follow the issues discussed, meaningful gaffs, the horse race, just the flow of events.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 02/11/2016 - 2:45am
Yes, I've been reading this story as well. Here's an article from Maddow's site with data.
Voter turnout challenges Sanders’ recipe for success
by ocean-kat on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 10:53pm
Thanks for the link.
Iowa and New Hampshire are two states built for Sanders. Clinton should have been crushed in both places. South Carolina, Nevada, and Super Tuesday are more realistic (representative) contests. If Sanders prevails, I will be a supporter despite my doubts about him. Sanders is a much better alternative than any Republican.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 02/10/2016 - 11:27pm
2016 NH Democratic Primary Results
Bernie Sanders 151,584
Hillary Clinton 95,252
2008 NH Primary Results:
Hillary Rodham Clinton 112,404
Barack Obama 104,815
John Edwards 48,699
Sure looks like an impressive turnout for Bernie. He got nearly 40,000 more voters than the vaunted Clinton operation did in 2008. If the slightly lower turnout on the Democratic side resulted from a lack of enthusiasm, it was Mrs. Clinton who failed to generate the requisite amount of buzz. Despite having to compete against only one candidate, Clinton still garnered 17,000 fewer votes than she received when she had to share votes with Obama and Edwards. Consider this too, Sanders vote total approximated the number of votes that the two non-Hillary candidates got in 2008.
But frankly I don't think you can even conclude the Democrats in toto didn't excite voters. The Republican race was wide-open. Going in, there were arguably six who still had a legitimate shot at the Republican nomination. In 2008, it was a two-man race between McCain and Romney. With Trump headlining the ticket, it's not too surprising that the GOP was the bigger draw this year.
If there really is reduced enthusiasm for the Democratic candidates that spells huge trouble in November for whoever the candidate is. NH is a must win state for the Democrats.
by HSG on Thu, 02/11/2016 - 12:03am
If the slightly lower turnout on the Democratic side resulted from a lack of enthusiasm, it was Mrs. Clinton who failed to generate the requisite amount of buzz.
I see. Yuuge turnout is due to Bernie, lower turnout is Hillary's failure.
by barefooted on Thu, 02/11/2016 - 1:00am
He got many more votes than the previous winner. Facing only Bernie, she got fewer than she did in 2008 when she had two opponents. Seems strange to attribute a very slightly lower turnout to him doesn't it?
by HSG on Thu, 02/11/2016 - 7:54am
Who knows. 70,000 more voted on the GOP primary than in 2008 and far more than Hillary vs Bernie. Whatever bump in the youth vote wasn't near enough to be impressive or point to impending success later like Obama's get-out-the-vote. May happen, but unlikely.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 02/11/2016 - 8:31am
So Hal puts up a link comparing MLK & Bernie Sanders and trashing Clinton - rmrd notes that Bernie voted for the referenced draconian anti-crime bill; I note the huge entrenched crisis going on at the time and what was being done to try to cure structural issues - including 3 in-your-face graphs.
And Hal ignores both comments, preferring to discuss 2016 voter turnout instead.
Thus goes our modern non-personal debate focused on the issues.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 02/11/2016 - 1:21am
Michelle Alexander and RMRD criticize Sanders for voting for Clinton's 1994 Omnibus Crime bill which included the notorious 3 strikes and you're out legislation. They leave out crucial context. PP defends the Clintons on the ground that we were facing unprecedented crime rates at the time.
In response Sanders spoke out passionately and humanely against the increase in incarceration to which the bill would lead and offered an alternative to the massive increase in police and prison spending.
Sanders prescient remarks:
[Congressional Record Volume 140, Number 39 (Wednesday, April 13, 1994)]
Here's what Hillary Clinton had to say at the same time when she campaigned for the bill:
Hillary also praised the bill to cops saying:
“We will be able to say, loudly and clearly, that for repeat, violent, criminal offenders — three strikes and you’re out. We are tired of putting you back in through the revolving door.”
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/times-change-heres-hillary-clint...
So why did Sanders ultimately vote for the bill. Here's what he said at the time:
http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/1/29/1476873/-Why-Sanders-gets-a-pass-o...
by HSG on Thu, 02/11/2016 - 8:13am
How do you combat violence against women without combating super high crime in general? You ignore other parts of the Clinton platform include large job increases, home ownership, SCHIP to give kids Healthcare, etc.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 02/11/2016 - 8:24am
At the end of the day, Sanders voted for the 1994 crime bill. Full stop. Sanders has voted against legislation that put pressure on gun manufacturers and sellers. Like a typical politician, he flip-flopped on his position when it became politically uncomfortable. He has tried to cover up his flip-flop.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jan/17/hillary-c...
There was 40 years of support for draconian drug laws by black politicians. Shirley Chisholm compared crime in the black community as akin to the bubonic plague.
http://prisontime.org/2013/08/12/timeline-black-support-for-the-war-on-d...
In hindsight those black leaders were wrong.
Sanders could have stood with the 11 members of the Congressional Black Caucus who voted against the 1994 crime bill, but he did not. John Lewis, JohnnConyers, Maxine Waters, and Charles Rangel were among those who had the courage to vote against the bill, Sanders did not have that same courage.
http://www.crewof42.com/cbc-2/the-11-in-the-black-caucus-who-voted-no-on...
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 02/11/2016 - 8:50am