MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Out of the mouths of babes, wiser than their years
By PeraclesPlease on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 11:45am |URL:
http://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/fox-stoneman-douglas/9089/
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Comments
Having major schaudenfreude here. Miz Ingraham was once one of the new and exciting up and coming young conservative revolutionaries, turning political pundit/activist world on its head.Yes, it's a bitch to get old and realize the youngins are not only taking over but making your once radical style look extremely passe and clueless.
by artappraiser on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 12:11pm
The Palmer report has been one of your go to sites for a while now. Louise Mensch sometimes too as I recall. The Guardian has noticed both of them. So has Wikipedia.
The site has been criticized for building a large following based on "wildly speculative theories about Donald Trump.
Palmer is described by Business Insider's Pamela Engel as "a mysterious figure who is behind several shuttered publications and has made enemies online as he threatens and intimidates those who question his reporting.
by A Guy Called LULU on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 12:43pm
Maybe you just made a mistake and didn't mean this as a reply to my comment but as a comment to PP?
Because it's just not true. Palmer Report is not one of my "go to" sites. I only go there when PP recommends a piece, then I look at it. Just like I look at the the links you post here "In the News".
I happened to very much appreciate this particular link, I like knowing about the activity it's reporting. That is all.
Edit to add: Except that if I were forced to decide between which of just two websites I would hope to find an interesting and helpful news tidbit on: Palmer Report or Consortium News, I would go with the former. Neither is efficient, mho. But at least the former attempts to produce some interesting news items while the latter mostly just complains about the bad coverage by the "MSM:" and consistently attempts to sell the message that such coverage has been and still is all part of a grand plot to misinform so that warmongering can continue. I'd rather just go with the one that leaves the reader to decide what this or that tidbit means or whether it is the truth than a site that purports to preach me the truth.
by artappraiser on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 1:33pm
this, from the next article I happened to go on to read ( @ The New Yorker:The Mind-Expanding Ideas of Andy Clark The tools we use to help us think—from language to smartphones—may be part of thought itself. by Larissa MacFarquhar)
strikes me as very applicable here:
by artappraiser on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 1:39pm
Clark has an interesting academic gig for himself, and he is keeping it very ivory tower.
Did the rope "prop" cause the lynching or something going on in every head in the mob?
Did Primo Levi survive and live to write about Auschwitz due to props and external tools present there, or something unique in his starving "meaty body"?
Who someone really is, often revealed under duress, cannot be told until the props and external tools are long gone.
by NCD on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 3:45pm
I didn't read Clark's statement to mean that a "prop" was more of a cause of an event than the activity in each participants meat-brain. If our perception and interchanges are happening through shared models, then each of us become responsible for those models.
by moat on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 4:10pm
He keeps it nice, fun and clean. Ignores of the bad stuff about human behaviors, psychology of mobs, exploitation by demagogues, cults, bigotry, indoctrination etc.
The great mystery of humanity is what goes on in people's heads when a group or nation goes wiilingly and enthusiastically into disaster, a calamity avoidable and foreseen by many others with the same props, models, history etc
by NCD on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 5:58pm
That is a great mystery and a rock many a wave has broken against. I think exploring the fundamental nature of perception and consciousness is an important step toward addressing it even if it falls well short of a complete (or even tentative) explanation. When we ask for explanations, the requests bring up many things to consider.
Rather than defend Clark from charges of ignoring bad things, I would ask to see his work in the context of those who are struggling to establish first principles. Gregory Bateson is not mentioned in the article but probably should have been. This is where he sees the rubber meet the road:
That thought is going in the opposite direction of keeping everything in tidy boxes in order to classify after having a bit of tea.
by moat on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 6:51pm
If you think of the quote in terms of commonly referred to "fly-over country" Trump voters, it suggests that many different scenes and steps created the dancers who were only secondarily in the same place at the same time.
by barefooted on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 8:00pm
The other side of that observation notices that establishing a common denominator that describes the traits of the most individuals is not very informative even if it is accurate. Verdicts are the conclusion of investigations, not the beginning.
by moat on Fri, 03/30/2018 - 12:31pm
It is neither easy nor agreeable to dredge this abyss of viciousness, and yet I think it must be done, because what could be perpetrated yesterday could be attempted again tomorrow, could overwhelm us and our children. One is tempted to turn away with a grimace and close one's mind: this is a temptation one must resist. In fact, the existence of the death squads had a meaning, a message: 'We, the master race, are your destroyers, but you are no better than we are; if we so wish, and we do so wish, we can destroy not only your bodies, but also your souls, just as we have destroyed ours."
From "If this is Man", Primo Levi, 1947
by NCD on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 9:24pm
I do not recognize my comment in your reply. I certainly agree with Levi that we must not look away from that abyss. Are you suggesting that I fell into a fugue state and started denying the holocaust without my realizing it? I would find the suggestion very offensive if I had any idea what it might mean. Have I been inserted into a Kafka novel and nobody bothered to inform me?
What line of inquiry into the nature of cognition do you consider more worthwhile than the one Clark pursues?
by moat on Fri, 03/30/2018 - 12:46pm
Gregory, eh? Drove by Esalen a few weeks ago, was wondering what the remnants of the vanguard are still up to. (Also wondered how he'd react to Margaret having faked hrer famous breakthrough, though imagine he wouldn't have been surprised). In the end, Lilly is remembered as much for a movie about attack dolphins and another on a monyey version of jekyll/hyde as breakthroughs on cognition and isolation and personal samadhi, but I remember him most for being scientific in saying, "an intestine's this long - let's stretch it across the lab and measure it precisely". An attitude of experiential reference Fuller brought too. Gurdjieff: "if you've seen Christ, you're a Christian - all else is just talk".
by PeraclesPlease on Fri, 03/30/2018 - 1:23am
I would put Lorenz in the same category. He developed the problem of the Butterfly Effect by doing his damnedest to get past it and produce the ultimate weather forecast.
by moat on Fri, 03/30/2018 - 12:59pm
by Luludude (not verified) on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 2:22pm
Well, instead of just relying on The Guardian (which is very much on my goto list as well), you can analyze the pieces I choose to repost from Palmer. In this particular case, there was nothing much to get wrong, and I liked his summation. Since I read it first there, it's also fair to share the reference. Most other cases involve direct URLs to other publications, so again I'm using him as a curator. And in some cases, he's guessing based on recent news and I feel his analysis holds water or at least adds intelligently as a possible option. And then other times he's doing a bit of shit disturbing via conjecturing, and I don't post these pieces. In any case I'd be surprised if I'd posted more than 10 pieces over the year.
Louise Mensch had a short shelflife for me, but I still think she played a critical role in getting citizens journalism accepted, and there are some claims she made a year plus ago that seem to be borne out. Seth Abramson seems much more methodical, but he gets shit as well, and the folks over at Emptywheel who I respect seem to think he's awful. Whatever - you pays your nickel, you takes your chances. Sometimes pondering a question is more important and possible than seemingly obvious conclusions that might not be correct after all. Except with publications where I see huge flaws and craziness - then it's hhard to get me back.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 2:37pm
Fair enough, I do similarly as to most of your first paragraph. I have read many articles which I believe have much good analysis supported by evidence or common sense but include some one thing that would kick off a firestorm if posted.
by Luludude (not verified) on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 2:59pm
Well I just blasted someone elsewhere a couple hours ago for posting a dodgy piece with Ray McGovern spouting out more ludicrous nonsense everywhere. It's really not personal about you - it's the characters you cite.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 3:14pm
Ingraham loses 3 advertiser while Subaru didn't even know they had ads there.
Seem it's working.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 4:44pm
I am shocked that they are shocked that she likes to present a bitingly mean persona and mocks people all the time.
More and more it seems that there's a lot of lazy ass advertisers who just pick from numbers, could care less what content is until someone informs them by complaining. Heckuva way to build a brand. They could just give me the money by lowering prices, that's the Amazon way. Forget this retailing thing, you all don't even know how to do it anymore.
by artappraiser on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 4:52pm
Ingraham apologized to Hogg after advertisers like Nutrish, TripAdvisor, and Wayfair started to bail
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/laura-ingraham-advertisers-david-hogg_us_5abcff01e4b03e2a5c7a2cf6
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 2:42pm
Could it be.....all they care about is the money, the cash from inflammatory punditry?
Driftglass on Ingraham:
No commentary except the hope that we live to tell our grandkids that is what the final days of white supremacist Conservatism looked like in America. Rabid animals baring their teeth, underwritten by a billion-dollar media conglomerate, ripping into anything that looked at them funny, as extinction closed in all around them.
by NCD on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 3:52pm
Where fleas the size of rats sucked on rats the size of cats... this ain't rock 'n roll, this is genocide!
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 4:27pm
Exactly this
Smearing Parkland Students Is a Symptom of the Right’s Ideological Exhaustion
By JEET HEER @ NewRepublic.com, March 28, 2018
BUT the neat thing this time, the hopeful thing about it all is: a high school kid not only gets that, he knows the smart way to fight back. First I'm pleased to see that someone that young gets the whole shtick, the game and doesn't have to have it explained. Second, I have hope that people left of center will finally stop so much troll feeding that has enabled the whole right wing loudmouth industry way past normal shelf life.
by artappraiser on Thu, 03/29/2018 - 6:57pm