MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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From the Readers
- barefooted 10 months ago
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Creative corner
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From the Dagbloggers
- Michael Wolraich 1 year 2 weeks ago
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- PeraclesPlease 4 years 2 months ago
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Hits of the Day
American white people really hate being called “white people”: a Twitter poll drama explained
By artappraiser on Fri, 07/27/2018 - 2:00pm |
URL:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/26/17613844/racial-diversity-poll-twitter-white-people
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Comments
in case it doesn't display on screen, here is Ezra's secondary tweet on the article:
by artappraiser on Fri, 07/27/2018 - 2:04pm
Identity politics always appeared to be nonsense. The implication was for other ethnic groups to fall in line and rest assured white people would take care of your interests. I await Klein’s Monday article.
I note that none of the news sources I use inform me about the detailed feelings of Latinos or Asians.
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/27/2018 - 8:17pm
Well FWIW this was just now near the top of my Twitter feed:
So I guess I could say some of the news sources I use do.
And shortly before that one, there's also whitey White House reporter Glen Thrush pointing out The Hill article about a police department in Florida framing innocent blacks. Maybe he's feeling much more for "the other" since he was suspended a while for questionable behavior towards women, or maybe he always felt that way for guys of all colors being framed, I dunno.
And then yesterday I remember seeing Republican Latina Ana Navarro's tweet here quite striking, screaming bloody murder that apparently Latinas and black women are not included in the designation of women by Trump.
I try my best to read all kinds of views, even conservatives. Not just The Root, but The Weekly Standard too. And even Breitbart sometimes.
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 2:18am
There are occasional blurbs about Asians like the recent story’s out income gap in the Asian communit. There are blurbs about Asian on television and a new movie showcasing Asians, but very little in depth reporting. We get snippets like Navarro’s tweet, but no real details unless we talk about immigration.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 11:36am
Blacks are reminded of race on a daily basis. Today there is a NYT article about a white Major League Baseball player who was found to have posted about hatred of Gays, White power, and used the word nigger. He apologized after some hesitation. When he returned to his home stadium, he received a standing ovation by a mostly white audience. Many do not believe that ovation if a black player had been discovered to post about hatred of Gays, praised black power, and said something positive about Farrakhan’s Nation of Islam.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/26/sports/josh-hader-ovation.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=mini-moth®ion=top-stories-below&WT.nav=top-stories-below
by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/27/2018 - 9:08pm
I sent that article to family yesterday, because: most of us are from the Milwaukee area, and that's where it happened. To give all those damn sports fan there back "home" (it's all they seem to care about sometime) an idea of how appalled we coastals are by this, that even the sports writers are freaking out about it. How stuck in the past they look. The thing is, though: they in turn, make fun of New Yorkers for liking baseball so much. None of the young people there care about it, they think it's awful and boring. They think it's an old people's game, and they know their baseball people are all the old clueless crabby prejudiced conservative talk radio types. Most Milwaukeeans of all colors under 65 are big Knicks fans: basketball is #1, football (Packers) #2. Baseball is for the old people who were raised in a segregated world, and because they also listen to conservative talk radio, they don't like political correctness. That's not to say the racial problems there are solved for the younger generations there because they are definitely not. But they are different, they are not like the baseball people acting out. Those that did it, they are old "hey you kids get off my lawn" types. My personal point to those still living there: you have no idea how bad these people are making you look, you really should do something about that, come into the 21st century or die.
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 4:04am
The baseball story is the tip of the iceberg. The Trump era seems to have ushered in a trend of white calling people on black people. Blacks were arrested for sitting in Starbucks. Blacks are harassed for relaxing in a Yale dorm room, relaxing at a pool(s). Police were called for black people barbecuing, selling water, entering their own apartments (male) (female 19 officers show up), and entering their own business. Most recently a black woman with a PhD was detained by police for trying to cash a valid check at a Florida Wells Fargo. This is the United States in 2018.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 12:11pm
I think different, I don't think it is an increase in activity, I think you are seeing much more media coverage of stuff that had always happened because the culture is changing and the prejudicial activity is becoming less acceptable. Black Lives Matter helped a little, but the rise of social media helped a thousand times more. And changing mores have a quick snowball effect: if people see acquaintances willing to report on something they see that bothered them on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram etc., they become more willing to do so themselves when in the past they might have been more reluctant. It is the "going viral" thing writ large. I think people should see it as a positive that there is more coverage of all the indignities, that it means the culture is changing. I look at it this way: many more "white people" care than used to. Nobody used to lose their pizza business because they were a big fail at sensitivity training, even Wall Street seems to care. That's not because of black market share.
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 12:27pm
What instruction would you give to a black child’s?
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 12:31pm
I don't give instruction to people on things like that, maybe you do, but that's not me. And I am not going to fall for even being dragged into a conversation about that, it's like a clear trap for you to turn me into a straw man where you can rail about how white people don;t get it. Suffice it to say I like doing cultural analysis, and have been doing it for a lifetime. I don't like doing cultural instruction, I'm not a preacher. The more I think on it, the more I find your question is slightly offensive, I wouldn't dream of telling any other people what to say to their children.
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 12:37pm
I have instructed young black men who are part of a group I mentor about interacting with police. It is a topic important for survival. I don’t see the question as a trap.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 1:05pm
Also, I find this insulting to me and to the readership of dagblog: The baseball story is the tip of the iceberg.....
Do you really think the news junkies here haven't seen most of the stories you list? We had long threads on some of those stories here. The Starbucks story, c'mon. Can't you see how insulting you are by pretending you are addressing clueless white folks who don't read the news? That's not dagblog's audience. It would make sense if you were posting on some right wing site or some site with a huge mass audience, but that is not what you've got here. We, this small group on dagblog, are not your enemy. It's beyond me why you are always trying to turn us into your enemy, the whitey who doesn't get it. Most of us are interested into getting into the nuance of these issues, not into participating in a amen jihad on the basics.
Edit to add, re: "tip of the iceberg" ISN'T THAT BASICALLY WHAT I JUST SAID?!!! I said there's been a massive change in the amount of coverage of these incidents. I refuse to participate in polemics. Furthermore, personally I think your attempt at polemics here on dagblog on all of this type of thing is, if anything, counter-productive.
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 12:54pm
p.s. really really really sorry I made the mistake of adding my nuanced thoughts about the baseball story and Milwaukee. which is a bummer, because I love this place because of the ability to discuss exactly such nuance.
by artappraiser on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 12:56pm
I just posted a story that NCD did not know about.
The article posted includes discussion about different experiences between blacks and whites. I posted links that tied to different experiences. You take offense. I think we may see mention of these incidents in the article by Klein on Monday. You somehow sense a personal attack from me. The article you posted directly criticizes white people.
Edit to add:
I do not understand why pointing the above stories is so offensive to you while a story about whiteness is OK. You create the fight then argue about the fight.
2nd Edit to add
You have no authority to dictate what I post. If it violates the standards, the post will be removed.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 2:04pm
As Artappraiser says, "I think different, I don't think it is an increase in activity,"
Yes. True. You can think whatever you want, but it doesn't make it true or something to get upset about when someone disagrees.
Been through this before with AA:
RM keep it up. We have white supremacist nutjobs in the White House, Trump being exhibit #1.
The trinity of white racism, Jews, Muslims and blacks.
------------
February, 2017 : Antisemitic incidents in US soar to highest level in two decades
Largest year-on-year increase since 1979 comes as Trump administration is accused of failing to condemn bigotry.
---------------------
A week ago : UNDER TRUMP, ANTI-MUSLIM HATE CRIMES HAVE INCREASED AT AN ALARMING RATE
------------------------
One week ago: Hate crimes against Blacks are increasing in LA County
by NCD on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 3:22pm
Thanks NCD. I don’t know how my post came under attack. The original post was about how whites don’t consider themselves as an identity group, while other ethnic groups do not have that luxury, I then posted a link to an article about how a white pitcher was rapidly forgiven for apologizing after using racial slurs as a teen. I don’t think that I black pitcher would have received a similar response. In the post about the pitcher, I noted that there are stories that essentially show blacks dealing with white supremacy. Calling the police on blacks as part of white supremacy was the reason for my listing the events in my response. I have no idea why there was a response that “ We don’t need (or want) to hear that crap.”
The vicious response said that entire group did not want to hear about police harassment. I fell on the floor laughing I express my opinion and fall under attack for speaking for all blacks. The pushback essentially said it was OK to speak for an entire group.
I recently posted about Colorism and mistreatment of black women. I was told that there was no big deal.
I realize that my posts tend to be outliers here. I find that interesting because just yesterday sitting at lunch with a group of white Liberal friends, the clear rise of racist attacks was a non controversial part of the conversation. While data on whites calling police on black people is lacking it is clear that hate crimes are increased.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/03/23/hate-crimes-rose-the-day-after-trump-was-elected-fbi-data-show/?utm_term=.44272318a7a1
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 4:48pm
I think there's a clear lack of understanding between many dag members, including you and NCD. But in spite of it, I also don't see any disagreement about the root issues. Arta expresses her frustrations with your comments by repeating many of her same criticisms over and over, each one becoming more intense than the last. You reply by apparently ignoring her concerns and inserting your own criticisms of her comments. Rinse and repeat. Peracles and NCD then add their position and we're off to the dag races of who can talk over the other better and less effectively. Then, of course, there's me. Where the hell I fit in is anyone's guess - maybe I'm the girl in the corner trying to make it a fair fight or maybe I'm just annoying everybody for my own amusement. Discuss amongst yourselves. ;-)
But my bottom line is that arta is right. She's confrontational about it with you, rm, so I get why you don't hear her. I don't sometimes. And I'm not even going to suggest that in the grand scheme of things she's right - she absolutely is not. See what I did there? No? How can she be right and still wrong? Simple. We all are.
I said that there's really no disagreement about root issues here, and I think you agree with me. That's something arta has tried to say as well, albeit in a way that's hard to stomach if you're on the receiving end (note to arta). Overall, though, you know that you don't have to defend the rights of minorities here - whether their minority status is due to race, economics, sexual orientation, etc. - because we're liberals, and we already defend those things in often breathtaking fashion. Or have you not noticed? I trust that you have, rm, and that's why you're comfortable here.
So challenge us if you like, we can handle it. But if you really want to make your points and, perhaps, find another outlet for mentoring young people, take arta's good advice and start writing your own blogs. Put your real voice out there; pieces that those kids can link to and share with others with your name on them ... you may already be doing that ... but if you're not? Why not?
by barefooted on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 7:59pm
It does make sense to me that posting police being called on blacks in response to a news article is offensive but posting it in a blog would not be offensive. I posted about Colorism in a blog and still got attacked.
Edit
I does not make sense
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 8:27pm
Screw making sense. Do it anyway. Just. Do. It.
by barefooted on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 9:31pm
Wow.
My point is that I’m going to be attacked no matter how I present data. There is no benefit for me.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 9:36pm
Do you really feel that? That there's no benefit? You know perhaps better than most here that there is benefit in speaking out, and if you think you're being attacked (really, here at dag?) then just frigging work with it, dude. I don't think I need to tell you that it's not about you.
by barefooted on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 10:01pm
There is nothing offensive about posting situations where police were called on black people whether it be in response to a news article or a blog. I simply posted a fact. I posted links to articles discussing Colorism as reported by black models and actors who report their experiences. AA responded with a tweet showing black images. Blacks are Hot.
13% of black men voted for Trump. If I called them stupid or Uncle Toms, there would be zero objection. If I point out that a majority of white voters supported Trump, I’m attacking all white people.
I agree this is not about me.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/29/2018 - 10:45am
"If I point out that a majority of white voters supported Trump, I’m attacking all white people." - sigh, no, that's baseline knowledge and fact at dag. That doesn't mean a minority whites weren't critical in defeating Roy Moore, but yeah, we've been rehashing how uneducated whites vote for 1 1/2 years.
However the thing about more incidents - of any type - can be the "availability syndrome" in psychology - we see something often so we assume it happens more often than other possibilities. But since these day these topics get clicks, media outlets have more incentive to front-page them. #MeToo didn't just start happening - it's events 50 years ago to present that suddenly became newsworthy, along with Twitter allowing things to magnified thru retweets much more than yesterday. A big reason why we see more black incidents is because of smartphone videos, which is great, but it doesn't say the *frequency* is more or not. (plus "copy cat" crimes and incidents follow the news coverage. On our side we see it confronting Trump officials)
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 07/29/2018 - 12:37pm
What is old news include fresh events. Not easy for many black people to ignore. Uneducated whites are still supporting or being silent white Republicans work to suppress black votes. The events are current events. The baseball ovation is today’s news. The NYT has a story today about racism in the suffragette movement that impacts relationships between black and white female activists today.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/28/opinion/sunday/suffrage-movement-racism-black-women.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region
Current events. Not ancient history.
Edit to add:
We talked about emoluments when Trump was elected.
We still talk about emoluments. A judge recently ruled that a case could go forward.
We talk about emoluments because it has ever gone away
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/29/2018 - 1:38pm
FFS, I didn't call it ancient history - I said we all here fucking know.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 07/29/2018 - 3:16pm
When someone says this about the Trump family...not sure they are paying attention, or making sense.
by NCD on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 8:33pm
Thanks for the shout-out, NCD, always nice to be quoted. While I do tend to pay attention, I suppose there's always a risk that I don't make sense. Then again ... sloppiness is universal.
eta: This was your response at the time:
"Only thing unique is their sloppiness"...haha...good one....it's probably their most redeemable attribute!
by barefooted on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 9:27pm
Thanks for the background. Appreciate your take on the ongoing national tragedy.
It's not surprising some can't or do not want to face the deplorable realities Trump has brought to the surface in people in this country. The bad stuff is never ending.
It's been a shock to me millions of Republicans go on as if Trump is 'normal', business as usual, still admire the guy.
Blacks have been at the forefront as long term victms of racism, and also in calling it out and not tolerating it. So Trump mostly hits on Hispanics, gays, Muslims....and of course, he couldn't resist....NFL players, but that didn't work too well. (especially for a President who fawns before 'honest smart' Kim and Putin under NK and Russian flags)
On the "it's getting worse front', Did you see this:
by NCD on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 8:33pm
The sad truth is that many Trump supporters would cast a vote for Putin before they would vote for a Democrat.
by rmrd0000 on Sat, 07/28/2018 - 8:39pm
Not everywhere of course, but here and in many other places the now unacceptable views held and overtly expressed in the past by a black woman now at MSNBC were explained away, apologized for, and quickly forgiven by most Democrats I heard express an opinion, most of whom are white. She still has her job when a white person on the same perch might have, probably would have, lost theirs. She still has far greater influence on the opinion of a large sector of the American public than does any baseball player. That said, people who are nationally recognized have an effect when they speak whether they should have on the particular subject of their speech or not. I strongly support Kaepernick even though I think his action might well have been counter productive to his intention.
by A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 07/29/2018 - 2:00pm