MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
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The current student protests are benign compared to the activities of their parents and grandparents generation in the 1960s. Pablo’s is calling a gender choice a fad. I don’t think
Eit to add:
The uproar of transgender bathrooms has expanded to the North Pole. A girl in the local high school was suspended for kicking a boy in the groin, after,, he and a group of boys protested transgender use of bathrooms by entering the girls bathroom.
https://www.theroot.com/trans-bathroom-panic-hs-girl-expelled-for-kicking-a-bo-1834094905
I’m not sure that Paglia has science on her side.
http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 8:16am
Re: I’m not sure that Paglia has science on her side. I looked it up, because knowing some of her past theories, I was skeptical that she was arguing what she is purported to be advocating. Turns out she's actually advocating for a more scientifically rigorous approach in transgender studies, not less:
In the end, it's about scholarly learning and discourse being a different horse than what's going on in popular society. Questioning things that are perceived conventional wisdom and having a place where that is not just allowed to happen but encouraged. In general over her career, she certainly likes to think about and study how conventional wisdom and herd mentality might be wrong. As a student, I would treasure having such a professor, rather than calling for her dismissal.
by artappraiser on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 12:14pm
Here is science from the Harvard link
Paglia says sex changes are impossible. Science reveals changes in brains that match sexual identities. Paglia calls this biological reality “subjective”. Paglia says that Liberals are fleeing biology, when in reality, scientists are saying that they are making observations that may explain why transgender makes sense. Paglia gives her opinion and seems unaware of the science.
Students leave college with an enormous debt burden. Perhaps the objection to Paglia is that she is the one not keeping up with observations being made in biology.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 12:37pm
The number of twins that are transgender is too small to be statistically significant. Any study with a sample size that small would be tossed out as unreliable to draw any conclusions.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 1:21pm
The twin studies were not thrown out, they were published. The rationale for publishing twin studies is because they help determine the impact of genetic versus environmental influences.
https://msutwinstudies.com/why-twin-studies
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 2:23pm
Anybody can get a study published, even in reputable science journals. Many studies aren't peer reviewed or tested. Some are dismissed out of hand without comment by the serious researches in that field. Others are repudiated.
Scientists Replicated 100 Psychology Studies, and Fewer Than Half Got the Same Results
Look up (fake studies published in science journals) in google and you'll get some idea of the size of the problem.
Sample size is important feature in any empirical study. The study linked could only find 43 twins that were transgendered even though the criterion for selection was overly broad. Any serious scientist or researcher in the field would dismiss the study without comment.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 4:11pm
Twin studies are going to be small by definition. They do serve a useful purpose as I noted above.
An article on the history of twin studies. Reputable scientists use the data from these studies. The studies are reported in peer reviewed journals. Do you have a reference that says twin studies specifically are crap?
https://endpoints.elysiumhealth.com/science-of-twin-studies-2c03d6b2d28
Here, for example, is an assessment of the impact of genetics vs environment in various forms of cancer. It was published in the New England Journal of Medicine
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM200007133430201
Here is a review that includes the twin study performed on one astronaut twin and the other who remained on earth
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/brief-history-twin-studies-180958281/
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 4:22pm
Twin studies are good if there's a sufficient sample size. It's not like every twin study is great simply because it's a study of twins. That's not the sole criterion in evaluating the significance of a study.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 4:28pm
The twin study of the astronaut and his twin is going to be the gold standard because there are not going to be tons of similar situations. When newer twin studies are done, they will be compared to prior twin studies. If they are disagreements, scientists will take a deeper dive into the studies to see why there were differences. New studies asking different questions about the influence of genetics will be asked using different sets of twins. Twin studies play a unique role.
Edit to add:
The major reason that we know scientific studies are flawed is because other scientists perform studies to verify the results. The fact that the study can’t be replicated leads to asking other questions. If the original study can be replicated, scientists ask what can be done to make things even better? Science is always asking questions.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 5:00pm
It's not going to be the gold standard. It's going to be looked at because it's the only one we have. Every conclusion will be followed by a caveat because the sample size is too small to rule out other factors. For example in some articles it mentions that the decline in cognitive ability might not be related to time in space. It might simply be because the astronaut wasn't pushing himself as hard after the time in space since he wasn't going to do any more space flights. He's retiring. The competition for space travel is so fierce that astronauts push them selves to the max to get one of the few available slots.
Basic physical changes will be more readily accepted but every claim of a more complex nature will be considered tentative by all the scientists in the field.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 4:57pm
The study did its job in that scientists are asking why they got the observed result. They acknowledge the impact of mental effort. That is what scientists do.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 5:03pm
No that's not what happens. You have this grade school view of science that they teach the little children. Studies are rarely replicated. It's expensive and time consuming to do a study and most researchers are interested in doing their own original work, not repeating the work of others. If a study is critiqued at all usually it's due to flaws in it's design. But as I pointed out below most studies are simply ignored.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 6:00pm
You are the one who is confused. In the medical field, for example, consensus papers and guidelines are the norm.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_consensus
In academic centers teaching is geared to applying the best method for each patient. There is also analysis of where medicine is failing, the higher maternal mortality among black women is one such area receiving attention. The reason most studies are ignored by experts in most fields is that they don’t meet the patient inclusion criteria or statistical rigor that is considered acceptable.
In your own words:
The scientists are focused on science. They don’t relay on the Journal of Unreproducible Events.
Cancer mortality is decreasing
https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/facts-and-figures-2018-rate-of-deaths-from-cancer-continues-decline.html
Cardiovascular mortality is decreasing
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5268076/
This is because, as I said, scientists work to replicate studies to prove a therapy works in a variety of setting. When new therapies are found useful, consensus papers are written by organizations to put the new therapy in proper perspective in current medical practice. Over time, the new therapy may be added to national guidelines for practicing physicians.
Of particular note in cardiovascular disease, there is concern that the decline in mortality may have hit a plateau . Research to determine if the plateau is real and why it might be happening is underway. Scientists are on top of things.
Edit to add:
Here is an overview of the new drug approval process at the FDA
https://www.fda.gov/forpatients/approvals/drugs/ucm405622.htm
Of note, critics note that the FDA, like the FAA and Boeing, May put to much trust in the data they receive on safety issues like side effects from the drug companies. Once drugs are released, there are medical scientists looking at long term effects.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 04/18/2019 - 9:09am
Did you bother to read that study or did you just google a link? From your link:
The transgender study you linked had 43 pairs of twins. Do you see the difference?
by ocean-kat on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 6:20pm
. Yeah, the whole scientific "truth" thing. It's tough to bring this problem up when we're dealing with Trumpworld. I give you credit for going there. Some real good stuff for the public was starting to be written on the problem during the Obama years; alas now because of Trump the discussion started but had to be set aside. We're back at "truth vs. lie, black vs. white".
by artappraiser on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 4:24pm
I've read that there's a trope among college professors, "Publish or die." Having articles or studies published is necessary for advancement. Some professors are researchers who teach a bit on the side. Others are just teachers. They may be great teachers but they don't do original research. So they come up with a hypothesis and design a study that takes as little work as possible and get it published somewhere. Or they do some research and publish an article on it.
This is both a problem and not a problem. Serious researches aren't wasting their time reading every published article in their field. They know who the serious researchers are in their field and they keep up with their work and ignore the rest.It's not a problem for the advancement of science. It's only a problem for those of us who aren't experts in the field, don't know who the major players are, and just want to keep up with what's going on.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 5:38pm
While I kinda agree with Paglia's views on the transgender movement I've tried to watch several of her videos on youtube and she always seems to be in the provocateur role like Yiannopoulos. She doesn't make good arguments to support her views and she always seems to me to dislike trans people. Even in your brief excerpt she has to toss in a reference to global warming. It doesn't support her arguments about transgendered at all. She has to know that would be a trigger to liberals. Why discuss it at all when she has absolutely no training in the sciences and none of her books show any deep scientific knowledge. I've looked into the science of global warming and I find the evidence convincing. It's a small thing but there is always something extraneous in everything she says that's designed purely to provoke and trigger a response out side the subject she's talking about. I think that's a technique used to avoid a serious discussion of the central topic.
It does seem there might be an attempt to shut down conservative speech on college campus. If true I support pushing back against those attempting to shut down free speech. But I wonder why some of these conservatives are even invited. Yainnopoulos, Ingraham, Coulter have nothing to offer in the intellectual realm. Their whole schtick is to insult liberals and provoke angry responses. That's not scholarly discourse
by ocean-kat on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 12:53pm
So it's estimated that maybe 0.3% are born with some sexual ambiguity, but let's see how we can make this more pronounced:
See that? yes, the 0.3% came from an earlier study, but another one overrode at 0.6% (1 in 4500), but with some carefully placed ifs, ands and buts we pump that up to a whopping 4% of the human population.
2% of high school students identify as "transgender", according to the CDC - but that's simply lumping a bunch of diverse phenomena and attitudes together that scientifically don't belong together. Does Paglia's wearing men's attire even rise to the level of a notable data point vs. actual bi-gender physical organs? (I remember when the gay community panicked about not enough attention to AIDS, so started painting it as equally likely for heterosexuals - a particularly awful example of hyperbolic statistical and advocacy overreach that terrorized coming-of-age teens the most - might we suspect that pumping up the numbers is an important tool to one's lobbying ends in this case as well, even though withut the deadly epidemic as motivation?)
Another study on intersex people noted *at least* 63% of transgender people suffer *debilitating acts of discrimination on a regular basis*. Oh wait, that's 63% who too part in their study, which we have no way of knowing how careful those controls were to randomize the participants. Still, that "at least" is a hilarious touch - "we didn't sample everyone, but it can only go up, not down" - now that's science for you.
How about this - let's say 10% of the population was otherly equipped in some significant way, would we raise a stink about it, force society to adapt to them, require controls that made them essentially on par with the 90%, require accessibility and tools and other daily accoutrements to have equal opportunity versions for this minority? of course not - left-handed people have had to adapt to the majority right-handed world since the beginning of time, though we've lessened a bit their association with the spawn of Satan.
Or we might consider women, who despite making up 50+% of the population,continue to have tons of hurdles tossed their way from pay to employability to daily sexual harrassment, etc. - but hey, that's the norm - let's focus on the tiny percentage of outliers because we just have nothing better to do, right?
But now, 0.3% or whatever finds themselves sharing some kind of physical quandary at least as a kind of category if not actually homogenous single feature - and we're supposed to make sure they're completely taken care of and not discrminated against in any way.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 1:50pm
Jewish people make up about 2% of the population of the United States. When there is a slaughter at a synagogue, we express concern and look for ways to protect them When a member of Congress is said the be attacking the 2%, we do look into the matter. The U.S. does look after small groups.
In regards to Paglia, she is entitled to her opinion. The problem is that she lacks a scientific basis for her opinion. Students may want professors who provide up to date info so they can respond to people spouting nonsense, rather than a professor spouting the nonsense.
Edit to add:
I have not noted any changes in my life to “accommodate” transgender people. There are M-F and F-M transgender people in the workplace. No bathroom fights or other events.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 2:47pm
One should be able to study Jewish genetics, ethnography, cultural traits, slurs against, preferences for, tribal behavior. etc. in college as well without an outcry that one is being prejudiced against that group. Sometimes professors have even been known to say ghastly provocative things to a class to provoke debate and deeper analytic thought, go figure. College is not for being protected from "dangerous" thinking.
Politics is a whole different ball game, nearly the opposite. I dare say they need to be keep separate.
by artappraiser on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 3:18pm
Paglia can have opinions. As a college professor, she needs to be supported by facts. She argues biology, then ignores biology studies. She comes across as confused as a climate science denier.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 3:22pm
I think someone who thinks like you shouldn't take any humanities or social science courses because you won't like them. I don't think professors in those fields who talk like Paglia should be fired, I think they should be lauded as the best kind. The last thing you want out of college is to be taught to think like the herd. Study the herd, yes.
by artappraiser on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 3:24pm
You want to be taught to assess facts. You don’t want a climate science denier, you want the climate scientist who points you to how climate is analyzed and what led to current conclusions. You also want exposure to what questions remain, what doesn’t fit current understanding, and how scientists are trying to address the unknowns.
In Paglia’s case, she is making conclusions based on her opinion, not the science. She can be a crackpot on her own time. She says transgender is a fad. What is her supporting data?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 3:33pm
So college is all about facts now? I thought that was grade school.
Paglia is a Professor of Humanities and Media Studies. Bet Dr. Cleveland, a Literature Professor, is glad you're not his dean.
by artappraiser on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 4:33pm
Paglia is talking biology
The Harvard biologist
Paglia has her opinion confirmed by herself. The biologist is asking questions and presenting new data. Paglia argues for biology, but is too lazy to do research.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 4:46pm
Pretty sure a slaughter of left-handed people would be met with an outcry.
Red-haired gap-toothed left-handers, not so much. We're busy.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 4:24pm
That is a dodge. Let’s take a look at a NYT article about transgenders and the TSA. TSA agents press a button to signify the sex of the person being scanned. Transgenders May have to undergo a more invasive body search. Is this really necessary? Are we more safe?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/17/opinion/tsa-transgender.html
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 4:30pm
Everybody has to take off their shoes - does that really make us more safe?
Maybe transgenders shouldn't have to take off their shoes.
Should we get them a pillow?
Transgenders "may' have to undergo a more invasive body search.
As do people in wheelchairs, people with metal in their legs, people with medical implants like pacemakers,
other less ordinary attributes.
They took away our babies baby forks cuz they had a bit of metal (though obviously babyproof)
while smokers were allowed to take on lighters no problem - thanks Marlboro lobbyists!!!
There are nearly 900 million airline passengers a year in the US going through these machines.
Yes, TSA will get better in dealing with transgender.
But somewhere someone should remember that the whole reason for these inconveniences
is to keep us from being blown to fucking bits, and if terrorists are willing to shove
devices up their ass, it's really hard to automate screening so it doesn't inconvenience anyone,
and by default and definition, screening looks for things "out of the ordinary".
With machine learning/AI-deep learning algorithms, that can be improved,
but when we're talking about interpreting scans, it's difficult (and part of the complaint
is about the scans being too intrusive, so it's a conflicting set of goals).
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 04/18/2019 - 3:40am
The only thing that would bother me is a slaughter of bald men. Anyone else is fair game.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 4:33pm
First they came for the hairy armpits - and I didn't say anything because I didn't have hairy armpits (sorry, Mom!). Then they came for the bald men and I didn't say anything because, well, I ain't bald. By the time they came for the incontinent snorers, well, there was no one to stand up for me... fair game you say? At least I held out til round #3.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 5:07pm
Anyone over the age of 10 who is incontinent needs to go. Of course I'm only 62. 10 or 15 years from now I might have a different opinion.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 5:52pm
As you've pointed out before, I'm only 7, or at least act that way, so have a few years leeway left.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 04/17/2019 - 6:31pm