MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Comments
The ACLU?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 6:57am
Helps to read whole article of the ink. They are featured in the last two paragraphs, as a summary. Alternately, if not liking reading, one could use the search function on one's browser.
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 7:28am
I read the article. Two white men were initially not charged for the homicide of a black jogger by two DAs. The third DA is waiting for a grand jury. After reading about the homicide and the failure to seek justice in the early portion of the case. My question remains, "The ACLU?".
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 8:32am
You sure are one hard-headed mother*cker.
And this pisses me off because I think it's exactly the tactic that's guaranteed to go nowhere or work backwards - that whites can be horrified by the murder of a black guy innocently out jogging in broad daylight, while wont be too sympathetic towards a sneaky kid hanging around cars at night, jumping a security watchman & beating him. [having Shaun King involved also doesn't help]
And I couldn't help but notice the similarity in this young man's murder and the hit job on Cade in Ozark - not that Cade didn't well deserve it, Aubrey not.
(even a HUGE if whether Aubrey had anything to do with whatever burglaries, renegade justice is certainly not condoned in a case where the 2 killers didn't even report their suspiscions, and death is a way over the top penalty for robberies. Just as it would be for Trayvon if he hadn't surprised a neighborhood watch guy at night & started beating him)
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 8:41am
The ACLU won't be trying the case. The ACLU is not a factor.
The media has conducted interviews with the mother and her attorney.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 9:35am
If the ACLU wasn't a factor, they wouldn't have a quote from the ACLU, would they? These orgs help raise public response. If they screw it up, public interest wanes. But ignore the news ecosystem and whatever you prefer.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 2:40pm
The black community pushed the DAs. The family used the head of the NAACP as their spokesman. The paper used the ACLU.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-shooting-of-ahmaud-arbery-an-unarmed-black-man-is-roiling-georgia
BTW, the Boston Globe also made the connection to Trayvon Martin.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/05/06/nation/black-man-was-lynched-this-year-his-killers-have-yet-be-charged/
What amazes me is that after reading the tragic story, the Trayvon Martin comment is what set you off.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 3:04pm
News outlets linking the two cases
Washington Post
Arbery’s death came three days before the anniversary of the 2012 killing of Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., said Andrea Young, the executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Georgia.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/05/ahmaud-arbery-killing/
New York Times
Mr. Arbery was killed three days before the anniversary of the 2012 killing of Trayvon Martin, the unarmed African-American teenager whose confrontation with a Florida neighborhood watch captain, George Zimmerman, helped ignite the Black Lives Matter movement.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/26/us/ahmed-arbery-shooting-georgia.html
Atlanta Journal Constitution
Some have compared Arbery’s death to the 2012 fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin, an African-American teenager from Sanford, Florida, killed by neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman. Attorney Benjamin Crump, who represented Martin’s parents, announced Tuesday he was now representing Arbery’s father.
https://www.ajc.com/news/local/bring-charges-against-brunswick-shooter/fz7taEww0Nqfedg8JgXm2K/
Newsweek
Arbery's death occurred three days before the eighth anniversary of the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin, the American Civil Liberties Union of Georgia (ACLU-GA) called for "full transparency and accountability" as the investigation moved forward. "Both incidents are a reminder that white supremacy has been a foundation for our country and leads repeatedly to the targeting and harming people of color, particularly African Americans," the ACLU-GA said in an official statement. In 2012, a community watch member in Sanford, Florida, shot 17-year-old Martin as he was walking from a convenience store to the home of his father's fiancé. During the investigation that followed, Martin's shooter said he had followed the teenager because he looked suspicious.
https://www.newsweek.com/fatal-shooting-black-georgia-jogger-ahmaud-arbery-explained-1502385
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 3:26pm
I note the "3 days before the 8th anniversary" formula. There is a 1 of 50 chance of being within 3 days (same week), and I'm sure editors would have squeezed in "same month" if farther apart.
In any case, a gangland-style killing is getting the response from the public (not police) it deserves.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 12:16am
Well, I don't much like black people being killed under horridly undeserved and unfair conditions. A black guy put in the back of a police van unsecured and driven/slung around til he dies. A black guy put in a chokehold and says he can't breath and dying. A black guy having his head pummelled into the pavement by a cop for 5 minutes. A white guy acting up but there's a black guy nearby so security arrests him instead despite all the people around saying it wasn't him.
And yet we have to dilute the outrage by bringing up a kid who attacked a neighborhood watch guy, pummeling him mercilessly. Well done, chaps.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 3:57pm
If there was no video, no one would face possible charges in this case. Arbery would have been a thug trying to steal something. Zimmerman is a sociopath who got away with a homicide because there was no video.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 4:08pm
Zimmerman got away with self-defense because there were witnesses. A jury found him innocent. It doesn't matter whether Trayvon ate Skittles or wore a hoodie. He jumped a neighborhood watch guy and that guy had permission for self-defense.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 4:18pm
Martin was defending himself from crazed Zimmerman. Zimmerman was told not to go after Martin.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 4:23pm
Jumping on someone from behind a corner and beating them is not "defending" unless that person had actively threatened or attacked earlier. Try "I had to blindside and beat up the black guy because he was walking behind me." Is that how you want the law to read?
"Crazed" is an unwarranted ad hominem you toss in to try to sway the argument. I've had a guy hang around my van and others in a lot and looking up to no good and sure enough later the door was jimmied and my toolkit was missing. Hard to believe, eh? (this guy was white - didn't really matter skin color - mattered obvious city behavior.)
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 4:37pm
We know that Zimmerman went after Martin after being told not to. Zimmerman was the aggressor. In the case in Georgia, Arbery was assumed to be the aggressor. The video told a different tale.
Edit to add:
Given the connection made by news sites, many people do not agree that Martin was the aggressor. Zimmerman's subsequent behavior is consistent with a volatile personality.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 5:04pm
It was tried in court,
126 jurors. Wish that little detail away all you want.by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 5:08pm
How can I wish it away?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 5:24pm
Well since a Jury decided it I guess it's true. No more appeals on death row cases I guess.
by Tom Jones (not verified) on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 5:31pm
Most of those cases were railroaded, witnesses ignored, prosecutors complicit, etc. In this case everyone was gunning for a conviction and the facts just weren't on their side. Perhaps a manslaughter charge could have stuck, buut not murder. Meantime the guy whose court appointed lawyer was an alcoholic who forgot to call key witnesses and let important deadlines slip by has my total sympathy. Again, don't mix types of cases unnecessarily. There are 1000s of cops and even civilians free after doing much much worse than Zimmerman. There are many more prisoners who've been treated awfully and unfairly by a crappy criminal and prison system.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 12:09am
Zimmerman's behavior should have been criminal imo. It went beyond what a neighborhood watch should be permitted to do. But to suggest that Martin should be permitted to physically attack Zimmerman for stalking him is nonsense. He was following me and I was afraid he would attack me so I preemptively attacked him is not and should not be part of any self defense argument.
by ocean-kat on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 6:48pm
Who called out for help?
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 10:28pm
Probably you, because you're making a fool of yourself again.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 2:00am
F*k you
Edit to add:
The ice was broken by "hard-headed mother*cker."
Your opinion doesn't matter. Again.
2nd Edit to add:
There is video of a homicide. No arrests have been made. We await court re-opening for a grand jury to hear the case. The post's title suggests that the real problem is a statement made by someone in the ACLU. I feel confident in my position on the matter.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 8:47am
The real problem was a young man's murder & the implicit raciam. The Trayvon ref was a largely dissimilar distraction.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 10:21am
There is no video to document who called for help.
We have no video of what started the fight
.Martin could have called for help
Zimmerman could have called for help
Zimmerman is a sociopath who was armed
So, yeah the Skittles kid was the thug, just like Arbery was the thug until we saw video.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 10:23am
Recordings. Phone calls. Witnesses. Physical evidence. A trial.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 10:25am
All after the initial confrontation.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-beaten-prosecution-witnesses/story?id=19517236
Zimmerman was told not to pursue Martin.
Zimmerman today, suing Elizabeth Warren and Pete Buttigieg
https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/19/21144670/george-zimmerman-lawsuit-warren-buttigieg-travyon-martin-defamation-tweets
And the dead youth's family
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/04/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-lawsuit
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 10:51am
Some on the jury wanted to convict on manslaughter, but that wasn't one of the available charges.
by PeraclesPlease on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 11:45pm
Justin Amash:
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 11:06pm
Biden, Abrams:
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 11:42pm
Klobuchar, Schiff, Sanders, Warren:
Those are ones I just ran across in an easy search, didn't look too hard
by artappraiser on Wed, 05/06/2020 - 11:48pm
Charles Blow in the NYT
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/opinion/ahmaud-arbery-killing.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 12:37pm
Uncanny similarities.
1) Daytime, sunshine on public road rather than nightime in rain in private gated community
2) Jogger Arbery lives nearby, jogging as regular activity, rather than unregistered unknown guest hanging out in parking lot in rain talking on phone
3) Truck parked illegally in road rather than being driven by neighborhood watch guy
4) Jogger chased by 3 guys in 2 trucks, vs followed on foot by single neighborhood watch guy
5) Guys in truck don't report incident to 911, while neighborhood watch guy does, updating on situation & suspicions
6) Shooters leave truck with weapons drawn, approach jogger armed with shotgun & pistol in threatening manner, while neighborhood watch guy keeps distance, describing events to dispatcher
7) Jogger Arbery tries to avoid shooters, first turning and running other way (back towards home?), then shifts to side of road on passenger side rather than confront (also safer for possible oncoming traffic), vs. boy who waits for neighborhood watch guy in the bushes and jumps him by surprise
8) Video shows 2 guys in truck approaching jogger with shotgun & pistol, followed by a struggle standing up, showing no danger to gunmen until they accosted jogger, vs boy who apparently jumped on neighborhood watch and was beating him while kneeling on top
9) Reporting officers didn't check gunmen's guns, whereas neighborhood watch guy surrendered his weapon and was taken to the station for questioning and photos.
10) State makes no effort to charge killers until video surfaces 2 months later, vs case against neighborhood watch guy undertaken with relative thoroughness.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 1:40pm
It's just like you to attempt to cloud the issue with trenchant observations and facts.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 1:50pm
There is no video of the confrontation. But at least you two are satisfied. You provide my daily humor.
Edit to add
He was totally innocent, but some wanted to convict on different charges.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 2:15pm
Of course you would choose to comment on my joke instead of PP analysis. That's just one of the ways you avoid serious discussion.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 2:19pm
Cut the crap. The reason that multiple sources connect the cases is because they feel sociopath Zimmerman literally got away with murder.
There were no charges brought against the officer who killed Eric Garner despite video.
There is no guarantee that the men who killed Arbery will be convicted.
Enjoy your dialogue with PP.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 2:23pm
From the sole minority on the jury
Polling at the time
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/after-zimmerman-verdict-a-racial-divide-lingers/2013/07/27/2d8cb316-f570-11e2-aa2e-4088616498b4_story.html
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 2:31pm
Right and wrong isn't determined by a popular vote. If you had a good argument to support your opinion you'd make it. You wouldn't resort to a popularity contest.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 2:43pm
We. Have. No video.
Zimmerman followed Martin after being told not to. You could hear the rage in Zimmerman's voice. There is nothing that will change your opinion. I really don't care what you think, so I point to polls that show what others think. Charles Blow, along with others agrees with my point of view. You are not even an afterthought.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 2:47pm
So no one was ever judged and convicted without video.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 2:57pm
People have been convicted without video. Eric Garner was murdered and there was no conviction despite video. Zimmerman chased Martin.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 3:50pm
Once again if you could support your opinion with a good argument you'd do that. Instead you resort to ad homimen. No one here cares about anyone here. We're all strangers. When you get backed into a corner and are losing you always say this. If this wasn't the internet you'd be putting your hands over your ears and screaming, "I can't hear you. I can't hear you." This is why I ignore 90% of what you post. You're incapable of rational dialog.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 2:59pm
Again, you seem to think that I care about your opinion.
Edit to add:
Your comment about juries is hilarious
When BBQ Becky made her call and no one was cited, you did not say let the community handle. You ranted about the encouragement of public defecation.
The community solved the problem, yet you complained.
Convictions are overturned, but you are certain that this jury was correct.
I explained my position. You do not like my opinion. Not my problem.
Out in the real world, Charles Blow and others question the verdict in the Zimmerman case.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 3:58pm
If you read my post you would have seen the part where I said No one here cares about anyone's opinion.It's not like I haven't pointed this out several times before. Is your problem reading or reading comprehension? I would think we could finally agree on this one thing. You don't care about my opinion. I don't care about your opinion. No one here cares about anyone's opinion. The reason you bring it up is to avoid discussion. But now that we agree is it possible to move on to the issues where we disagree? Or is repeatedly pointing out the obvious all you have?
by ocean-kat on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 4:01pm
I never said anything about juries. I never said the jury was correct. As always you make up shit to avoid discussion. You're a pathological liar.
I, of course, did not say let the community handle it. I don't accept popular opinion. it's often wrong. The community didn't solve the problem, the police did when they warned the people breaking the law and the people agreed to dismantle the BBQ. Foolish people like you politicized the situation and politicians succumbed to popular demand and decided to ignore valuable health regulations.You never addressed why these regulations exist in virtually every park in America and abroad nor did you address my reasons as to why they exist. You have no arguments to defend your opinions. All you have is avoidance techniques. I no longer try to discuss issues with you. All I do now is point out the techniques you use to avoid rational dialog.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 4:20pm
Unlike Trump, I don't use phrases like "totally innocent". Quite possibly Zimmerman used bad judgment, both in trying to track Trayvon's next steps and taking a licensed pistol with him down the path. Possibly a manslaughter charge would have been appropriate - I'm not a lawyer or enforcement expert.
Now, would you want to encourage white guys to turn and question black guys following them and start beating the black guys if they don't go away? Would that be forgivable, no charges? Because laws and policies tend to cut both ways.
Do note that you will always find "some" who want to do all sorts of things, including drinking Lysol, and polls will tell you the Americans who elected a congenital idiot president still support him quite a bit. I'm looking for the "reasonable man/woman" standard.
Obviously "Take A Knee" highlighted issues about race that need to be discussed. But not much to argue over whether vigilantes can approach whoever they deem "suspects" with loaded weapons on a back road without alerting police, and then shoot them. The intent of the law in following standard procedures is usually clear.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 2:27pm
The white guys would just call the police and let the police do the beating for them.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 2:43pm
They obviously didn't do that in the Arbery case.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 4:20pm
Dagblog catnip. With thought provoking and disturbing threads on TB and vaccines and DoJ excess, etc, we'll dig the same mine over and over
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 4:43pm
The two men involved in the homicide have been arrested
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/07/us/ahmaud-arbery-arrests-mcmichaels/index.html
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 8:42pm
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 10:13pm
Richard Fausset reporting from Atlanta for NYTimes:
by artappraiser on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 11:04pm
The father in the shooting knew Arbery
https://www.ajc.com/news/local/brunswick-attorney-released-the-video-arbery-shooting/JkpbvTuJt9wfl3tkcLTTvO/
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 11:27pm
The lawyer who released the video knows the men involved in the shooting
https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/local/arbery-lawyer-defends-video-release/77-1191b57d-86eb-40cd-ad3c-b5776e3e57e2
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 05/07/2020 - 11:31pm
Trump laments ‘heart-breaking’ killing
@ BBC News, 4 hrs. ago
by artappraiser on Fri, 05/08/2020 - 5:03pm
I think the above is just proof of the validity of Peracles' title at the top of the thread, questioning why the ACLU was mixing two different kinds of cases. Because if even the Drumpf can express sympathy about this case, and not equivocate in any way, it's so fucking clear cut of a hate crime killing, there's virtually no comparison. (I can only think of one other instance of him doing the sympathy thing--whether fake or not--it was regards the poison gas attacks on "little babies" in Syria.)
by artappraiser on Fri, 05/08/2020 - 5:13pm