oleeb's picture

    Class war ya say? Bring it on Baby!

    By oleeb on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 2:56pm |

    On TPM's front page,  in a post headlined "Just What is a Bonus?" reader TR points out that a big part of the outrage on the part of the public is that people commonly see a "bonus" as a reward for a job well done.  Thus, in the case of a bankrupt company being rescued by Uncle Sam the common understanding of the typical American is nobody at that place deserves a bonus and certainly nothing in the millions.  This is unquestionably true.  He also points out that in the world of high financial thievery that many people are paid most of their salary as "bonuses" at year's end for tax purposes highlighting that the word "bonus" is simply being  manipulated so that people who make too much to begin with can dodge as many taxes as possible.  Of course, this also pisses off the public, most of whom don't get any "bonus" of any kind and who are just barely making it economically if they've been amongst the lucky who haven't lost their jobs, etc...

     

    This whole matter highlights the obscene disconnection between the world of the executive business class and the rest of our society.  We have all known for many years now that the people on Wall Street and those who are in the executive ranks in corporations make astronomical sums of money.  Now that government involvement is giving the public a much closer look at what goes on in the business world the revulsion and disapproval of how business is done in this country grows on a daily basis.  I think this is extraordinarily healthy and long overdue. 

     

    For decades accolades and honors have been heaped upon business people for essentially reaching new heights in greed, dishonesty and a "profit at all costs" mentality without regard for the negative human costs and consequences these practices often cause.  More than anything else they have been rewarded financially in ways that most people can only dream of.  Nowadays, everyone who makes less than $100,000 annually is pretty much considered a chump and a loser in the business world.  A huge majority of Americans would be included in that category of course.  According to a census bureau report from August of last year, median household income in the US is $50,233.00 http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf.  That means half of the households in the US are making due on less than that, many on much, much less than that, many more on not a whole lot more than that.  During the period 2005-2007, only  3.7% of all American households had income in excess of $200,000.00 annually.  That number is only 4.7% of "families" according to the census http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/STTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-qr_name=ACS_2007_3YR_G00_S1901&-ds_name=ACS_2007_3YR_G00_

     

    I mention these figures to remind others that the average American has virtually nothing in common with the people who are the immediate beneficiaries of this massive government rescue of the financial sector.  The life of the average American is a completely different world from that in which executives are paid vast sums even when their actions have literally contributed to world economic collapse.  I repeat: the average American has virtually nothing in common with the people who are being rescued by them in this massive bailout of the banks and financial industry. 

     

    The average American has far more in common with the people who were victims of the great Christmas Tsunami in the Indian Ocean than they do with the American execs who sank the world financial system.  How grotesque is it to ask the average American who has been struggling literally for decades, just to make ends meet, to save the jobs and businesses of the people who live lavish lifestyles and who are the recipients of incomes and perquisites that cannot be justified on any logical or sensible scale?  I think that the number one thing going through most American's minds when they hear about these absurdly self-serving situations the "masters of the universe" have setup for themselves is "how dare they!" 

     

    How different is the world of the average American worker from that of the thieves, conmen and crooks on Wall Street?  The average American is literally economically punished if they don't punch in on time every day.  The typical American worker's wages are meted out by the minutes they put in on the job.  Most modern time clocks measure in units of less than a minute and if you aren't there on time or take too long at your break you get docked.  No questions asked.  In the typical American workplace if you are late more than a handful of times in a year you are liable to get fired.  No questions asked.  The average American is subject to termination at any time, protected ostensibly by state and federal employment protections but in reality has none that an employer is, to coin a phrase, "bound to respect."  Absolute, iron clad authoritarianism characterizes the workplace regime of the typical American worker.  Anyone who works in the real world or remembers what it is like but who has escaped it, understands that employers rule the roost in absolute fashion and in the typical American workplace workers are routinely treated poorly, improperly disciplined and terminated, subject to all manner or restrictive rules that are often harsh and that do not allow them to attend to family responsibilities or anything else outside of the workplace during hours where attendance at work is expected and required without negative economic consequences.  A century ago this state of affairs was often reffered to, and quite accurately, as "wage slavery".  If a typical, nonunion worker is fired in America they are basically shit out of luck except in the most egregious circumstances and the burden of finding any sort of justice is on them personally which means they have to pay a lawyer themselves if they want to seek it.  But since they're unemployed at that point and have little or no savings as is the case with most workers,  relatively few pursue any sort of justice.  Most workers just take whatever is handed to them.  This has been going on for as long as I can remember and I've been working for well over 30 years now.

     

    Contrast that with the world of rapacious financial wizards who receive hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars whether it's called salary, a bonus or whatever!  And the average American is being told he/she must bear the weight of bailing these people out in return for what?  What do "we" get out of this what most Americans think and they know the answer which is little or nothing and probably nothing.  The average American knows the best they can probably hope for is that the economy will restabilize and most of them will be able to get back to work.   They understand that the people at the top see the real "crisis" as being the one impacting Wall Street and the major crisis for the little people of low wages, lack of health care, employment instability and/or joblessness is secondary.

     

    As stated above, most Americans can only dream of what it would be like to make money at the rate executives are paid even for one year let alone year after year throughout a career.  For my entire life there has been a concerted campaign by that top income group, who rule the business world, to keep wages and benefits for the rest of us down as low as possible and to emasculate unions and/or destroy even the possibility of workers joining unions to protect themselves and their interests in the same way executives have lawyers negotiatiate sweetheart employment contracts for themselves.  And they have done this while the productivity of the American worker has consistently risen.  The executives themselves and other wealthy people have reaped nearly the entire reward for the increased productivity of the average worker over the past thirty years.  They have met with incredible success at keeping wages and benefits down and in significant part that success has fueled the runaway growth of income inequality in this country.  When you consider the income numbers overall, the shocking breadth of the transfer of wealth over time from the average American to the very, very few at the top becomes clearer and it is truly obscene.  There's nothing those bastards don't have and they have essentially been robbing the workers of the nation of the benefit of their own productivity for decades.  This is absolutely wrong and unacceptable.

     

    The obscenity of American income inequality is highlighted by things like the absurd AIG "bonus" issue.  So while not at all disagreeing with TR's point that Americans typically consider bonuses a reward for a job well done I would add something.  I think the financial sector bailout has provided a rare opportunity for the American public to voice it's strong disapproval of the sickening inequality that has been allowed to grow in this country over the past generation.  The especially galling nature of this inequality is maximized when you have this tiny class of incredibly powerful and wealthy people sucking, like the parasites they are, off the average American to save their greedy asses without so much as a thank you!  Yes, the Republicans led the charge for this, but few Democrats went out of their way to stop it or do much else about it.  This is an appropriate time for a reckoning.  So as bad as it all is, one positive aspect of the whole financial debacle is that it presents us with the opportunity to completely realign the distribution of wealth and power in this country and level the playing field back to an acceptable point where the idea of prosperity is more than a fleeting hope for the average American.  Now that the Democrats are back in charge let's see if they will really do much to correct this outrageous situation.  And if and when they do you know the Republicans rallying cry will be "Class War!" to which I hope and pray the Democrats and the American people respond, for once,  with a resounding: "Bring it on baby!"  The growth of income inequality over the past 30 years has been a byproduct of the one-sided class war waged on the average American by the bullies in the executive suites and the other wealthy people whose greed and selfishness knows no bounds.  But the time has come for the average American to show those class warrior bullies the contempt and scorn they have deserved all along and to stand up to them once and for all.  The bullies in the executive suites and their allies in American politics (mostly Republicans) are no different than any other and what they hate most is when somebody stands up to them.  Why?  Because as everyone knows, bullies are really cowards.  They make a great show and hope to get their way by initimidation, as they often do, but as anyone who has ever done it knows: all you have to do to get rid of the bully is stand up to him.  It's time the citizens of this country assert themselves by putting the economic and political bullies in their place.

     

    The income numbers alone justify a new New Deal in this country that includes single payer health care, dismantling of the obscene, unproductive and grotesquely wasteful permanent war economy and massive reductions in the annual war budget that now approaches three quarters of a trillion dollars annually even in these hard times, improved educational opportunities for every American, a genuinely progressive tax system that has the wealthy paying their fair share, real and drastic action on climate change that preserves this country and our world for the enjoyment and use of generations to come and serious reduction of poverty in this country among many other things that have been sorely neglected for decades while the ruling class has pursued riches and world domination at the expense of the average American family.

     

    The only way we will see a new New Deal is if we, the people, demand it.  Do not expect even the Obama adminstration to do this unless forced.  Despite all Obama's unique qualities, the people at the helm of his adminstrative ship are still all creatures of the environment that brought us the past thrity years of income inequality, jobs disappearing, growing poverty, idiotic imperialistic wars and the totally irresponsible and unethical thievery we've seen throughout the business world.  

     

    Don't shy away from making the wishes and desires of the common people heard in the halls of government!  Don't listen to the voices that counsel docility masquerading as restraint or "giving them a chance."  The more time we give without demanding our voice be heard the more time we hand to the special interests to cut us out of the deal entirely.  If you don't think that's true look at the debate over health care or even the banking bailout where the lobbyists representing predatory wealth swarm daily like vultures.  The clear lesson of history and in modern politics is that if you don't make demands you will not only not be heard, you will get screwed.  The common people won't be heard at all if we are not shouting at the top of our lungs, making those who say they represent us uncomfortable (as they are now while trying to squirm away from responsibility for the AIG bonuses, etc...), and demanding we get for the common people of this country the things they have deserved for so long but have been denied.  Now is the time for people power.  It's unlikely to come again in our lifetimes, so let's act on behalf of our children, grandchildren and posterity before it is too late.

    Comments

    I was just thinking about this:

    " Now that government involvement is giving the public a much closer look at what goes on in the business world the revulsion and disapproval of how business is done in this country grows on a daily basis. I think this is extraordinarily healthy and long overdue."

    Just stepping back a bit, corporations used to be CHARTERED by the king. In this country you could go to Delaware and get a 'charter.' You know, for a hundred bucks or something.

    In this country there was supposed to be kind of a democracy in the corporation. Shareholders were supposed to have a say in the goings on.

    Republican appointments to the benches all around this country closed the door on shareholder law suits. So that the moneyed class simply took over. Decided to pay themselves with a percentage of the gross.

    Thirty million a year. What the hell is that. Some idiot has his ten grand in his 401k or whatever and he purchased the shares, and he has not say whatsoever.

    The the directors were supposed to have a say. Now you get retired generals or retired party bosses or whatever and they have a deal worked out to get paid through the corp for 'extra credit' or through agreements with other corps.

    The entire business structure should be rethought.
    Rebuilt.

    Tax structure, tax rates could take care of a lot of this nonsense.

    Good post, good points, got me riled.


    by dickday (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 4:10pm

    I've been trying to bring on class war since my father was telling stories about the Wobblies. Couldn't bring on the conflict and I still had to work for a living. What can a fellow do but make an honest buck and hide it where he can.


    by J MacCrea (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 4:23pm

    I'd recommend this multiple times if I could.

    And if and when they do you know the Republicans rallying cry will be "Class War!" to which I hope and pray the Democrats and the American people respond, for once, with a resounding: "Bring it on baby!"

    Here's hoping that's the response. It will have to be loud and relentless for it to get through the media fog, which has aided and abetted the Republicans' class war theme (Jeanne Cummings? I'm thinking of you).

    Obama was right to say that we're at a defining moment--and maybe he had an inkling of what we were going to face, or maybe he was simply saying that for other reasons--whatever. He was right. This is a defining moment.


    by CT Voter (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 5:23pm

    Thanks CT! I agree. It is a defining moment and yeah, I don't think Obama's reasons were quite the same, but regardless, he's right anyway!


    by oleeb (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 5:29pm

    I find it interesting that the action of the Federal Reserve of late; the buying of mortgaged back securities and other policy moves to drive interest rates lower are being enacted NOW.

    Considering that many of us were saying the way out of this crisis was to lower the Interest Rates on home mortgages.

    But Hell No, the Government couldn't help all homeowners, only some.

    The Government expected the homeowners to prostrate themselves before the Rich banker class and grovel for the crumbs.

    Now the Fed policy appears as throwing crumbs at the mobs, in order to quell the groundswell of anger?

    If the Fed had intervened earlier by lowering mortgages to lower rates, or other techniques at their disposal, could foreclosures have been averted. Mortgage backed securities stabilized and no more defaults?

    Now the Fed is a day late and a dollar short,

    Like the farmer who stayed in town partying with friends and upon his return home noticed the barn door or corral was unlocked and the livestock no longer contained. The farmer or tender of the flock returns back to his buddies who tell him to party and things will work out just fine.

    When it finally dawns on the farmer or he begins to be ridiculed for being so foolish, He returns and decides he needs to put a lock or better fastener on the door to keep the livestock inside

    Too late you idiot, what livestock is left to secure inside?

    http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Somethings-Happening-Here-lyrics-Buffalo-Springfield/528E570C1800DFA648256FB0000907B4


    There's something happening here
    What it is ain't exactly clear
    There's a man with a gun over there
    Telling me I got to beware

    I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
    Everybody look what's going down

    There's battle lines being drawn
    Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
    Young people speaking their minds
    Getting so much resistance from behind

    I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
    Everybody look what's going down


    by Resistance (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 6:16pm

    The Many Benefits of Class War (from The Pelopponesian War, Part Three, about class war in Magna Graecia)...

    Frantic violence became the attribute of manliness; cautious plotting, a justifiable means of self-defence. The advocate of extreme measures was always trustworthy; his opponent a man to be suspected. To succeed in a plot was to have a shrewd head, to divine a plot a still shrewder; but to try to provide against having to do either was to break up your party and to be afraid of your adversaries. In fine, to forestall an intending criminal, or to suggest the idea of a crime where it was wanting, was equally commended until even blood became a weaker tie than party, from the superior readiness of those united by the latter to dare everything without reserve; for such associations had not in view the blessings derivable from established institutions but were formed by ambition for their overthrow; and the confidence of their members in each other rested less on any religious sanction than upon complicity in crime. The fair proposals of an adversary were met with jealous precautions by the stronger of the two, and not with a generous confidence. Revenge also was held of more account than self-preservation. Oaths of reconciliation, being only proffered on either side to meet an immediate difficulty, only held good so long as no other weapon was at hand; but when opportunity offered, he who first ventured to seize it and to take his enemy off his guard, thought this perfidious vengeance sweeter than an open one, since, considerations of safety apart, success by treachery won him the palm of superior intelligence.

    by Rutabaga Ridgepole (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 6:24pm

    Resistance,

    I think you and I were two lonely voices from the start of all this calling on the government to directly issue low interest rate mortgages. That would still be the best and most effective stimulus available and would actually make money for us all and be a good investment in all our people and families. But if you think you're mad now go take a look at the blog post of crazedand confused on this very subject. He details how the bankers are refusing to lower rates below 5% even though they are getting the money at 1%. In other words, instead of lowering rates as we were told woudl happen, the banks are gouging the public again! You can find the post here:
    http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/crazedandconfused/2009/03/dirty-scheming-banks-continuin.php?ref=reccafe


    by oleeb (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 6:27pm

    I find it interesting that the action of the Federal Reserve of late; the buying of mortgaged back securities and other policy moves to drive interest rates lower are being enacted NOW

    Hey, no kidding! Isn't it strange how a trillion dollars coming out of thin air can't seem to get a rise out of most bloggers, doesn't really matter, I guess, long as it's not going to AIG salaries? And how about that Dow reception, a big snore? A trillion won't get you much these days, I guess.


    by artappraiser (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 6:30pm

    I heard on NPR this morning the Fed has extended over 4 trillion.


    by oleeb (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 6:37pm

    It's fascinating that these fat-cats with the fancy footwork, who sold financial fluff, finally went too far. They went so far they've aroused the ire of the populace against them. People are mad at their double-dealing. And they're mad at how they use language, particularly the language for compensating themselves. To save money, they say they're earning a bonus. And now that people have caught on to the euphemism of bonus = extortion = a way to save on taxes and hide how much they really expect to take, regardless of how far in debt they've driven their companies, they're getting just what they deserve. People want the bonuses back!

    Maybe all of this will teach many lessons. Starting with don't stretch the English language so far that it comes back and hits you!

    Thank you, oleeb. I hope and pray sanity returns to our land. Especially I'm hoping that people learn to expect a more modest recompense for their work - and to realize that if you are responsible and take ethics into account, you can perform a job and feel good about the service rendered.

    Unless some people start to serve the public, they will find themselves, like these fat cat greedy blood-suckers, at the low end of the totem pole of public respect. How far have the mighty fallen! They're feeling that now. And they should!

    I'm beginning to channel you, oleeb!


    by TheraP (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 6:41pm

    The reason people are not as angry about this as they should be and generally tend to support tax cuts is because most of them think they're one lottery number away from being rich themselves.

    This bonus/retention payment is a smokescreen for the fact that the flight of the AIG execs was triggering the downfall. The fact that the first order of business for AIG after their claim that they will pay back the treasury and the Fed/Res is to restore the "at risk" payment funds of the employees at AIG/FP. What does that tell us?


    by BevD (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 7:28pm

    This is what the cult of the CEO and privatization has led us to - once again we are learning the lesson that people do not respect other peoples' boundaries and must be regulated - greed is the downfall of all societies - we have to regulate it.


    by BevD (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 7:41pm

    The reason people are not as angry about this as they should be and generally tend to support tax cuts is because most of them think they're one lottery number away from being rich themselves.

    You hit the nail on the head, BevD. The American people still believe in the American Dream. That one day, they too will be among the rich - If only they get the right break. In other words, delusion. However, they are beginning to come out of their stupor and sober up. Once that happens......


    C


    by cmaukonen (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 8:28pm

    You're right it is a delusion and a very potent one.

    However, when things are as they are, the potency isn't quite as much and people understand that while they still would like to believe they will win the Powerball, they know what the real score is and that the game they're hoping to win is rigged and rigged in a grossly unfair way.

    That is why this is the moment in history that is critical for people to loudly demand some genuine, radical changes in the distribution of power and wealth in this country. The game has been fixed for too long and only a tiny, tiny handful of people are allowed to win anything at all. People know this very well and so during this brief moment of clarity it is critical to act.


    by oleeb (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 8:40pm

    The relentlessly self-endowed pried themselves loose from the rest of us. Egregious bonuses and perks were part of an entitlement package they... simply... deserved. To the extent they pursue and enjoy this bubble status, they're no longer a different class. They've practically become a different species.


    by San Fernando Curt (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 9:47pm

    Just in case the three of you would like some validation for your 'one lottery number' theory, check out Michael Hiltzik's column in the LA Times yesterday, The Belief that the Wealthy are Worthy is Waning.

    Americans consistently supported fiscal policies that undermined middle- and working-class interests partially because they saw themselves as rich-people-in-waiting ...

    That mind-set has all but been eradicated by the damage sustained by the average worker's nest egg, combined with the spectacle of bankers and financial engineers maintaining their lifestyles with multimillion-dollar bonuses while the submerged 99% struggle for oxygen.

    However, Oleeb might want to take note that the under $100,000 club of business losers is way too low. According to Hiltzik, "[t]he price of admission to the top 1% income-earning club last year was roughly $400,000."

    Way to go!



    by seashell (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 10:22pm

    Ahem.

    I'm not crowing, or somesuch, but....

    I mentioned it, in my blog, as well. Not just to homeowners, but businesses. GM would be a lot more stable if their loans weren't at 8% and higher.


    by Bwakfat (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 10:45pm

    What if the Bush-Cheney administration was timed to be finished at the end of 2010? Would there be anything left of our country?


    by CVille Dem (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 10:45pm

    At the risk of getting fired, I can honestly admit to being fiercely angry at some certain Senior VP's I know who allowed part of their workforce to get laid off in one day yet won't give up their car allowances, which, for one SVP alone adds up to $30,000 a year. The company I am speaking of already gives the SVP's free gas and tolls all year. I just cannot fathom this way of thinking.

    Thank you for letting me vent here. I've been keeping it in for almost a month.


    by LisB (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 11:31pm

    "Republican appointments to the benches all around this country closed the door on shareholder law suits."

    It is not just a republican thing. It is the money party VS the people party. When they announced the first Obama appointment to the bench last week everyone was all excited about his social views, even if they were simply moderate.

    I kept asking Bloggers to dig on any "business decisions" this judge may have made. Any bets on whether he is a pro-corporate judge too?

    It is no coincidence that these money manufacturing machines were given the title and rights of personhood by the courts. No sane citizen would ever have done that.


    by Connecticut Man1 (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 11:41pm

    I was just thinking of the last eight years, but this is where I get scared. I mean, is the money the thing? Of course it is. Follow the money.

    Then I am in despair. Then there is no hope.


    by dickday (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 11:47pm

    Lis, since you didn't identify yourself OR your company, how did you take a risk here? I'm not suggesting that you should put your job on the line, but do you think you did do that with what you said?


    by CVille Dem (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 11:49pm

    Good post, Oleeb.

    One of the things that has happened as a result of the financial meltdown is that faces have been put on the ultra rich in our country. Perhaps now that we know who they are and how little they care about the people who have much less than they do, we will be a little less willing to be "trickled down" on by them...


    by stillidealistic (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 11:53pm

    I'm probably safe, but a number of my coworkers know where I blog. And it's a very touchy subject because the seniors know a lot of us are talking about it in a disgruntled manner.


    by LisB (not verified) on Fri, 03/20/2009 - 11:54pm

    LisB, I do believe what they think is the following:

    "Let them eat cake!"


    by oleeb (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 12:22am

    Don't bet on it.

    When the s**t hits the fan, it's going to be Obama and his minions (Summers and Geithner) who will look like the plutocrats' dogsbodies.

    It'll be the Repugs saying "Bring it on!" and for the first time in my life I'll be listening.


    by Ellen (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 12:37am

    Federal Reserve Bank? FOMC? Primary dealers? Broker dealers?

    Anyone? Anyone?


    by Ellen (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 12:56am

    I beg to differ (why do I keep doing this with you, Oleeb...?). I don't believe they think about it at all. They keep their car allowance BECAUSE THEY CAN. That is all the reason they need. Because the invisible hand is a Just hand, and that hand just keeps handing them dough...


    by Obey (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 1:49am

    "... and for the first time in my life I'll be listening."

    ... because the Republicans have so many brilliant ideas - NOT!


    by tlees2 (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 2:08am

    I guess Crumbs cost a lot more these days.

    "Let them eat cake with lots of icing"?


    by Resistance (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 6:59am

    With Icing


    by Resistance (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 7:02am

    Except not even Repugs can have a worse idea than Geithner's.


    by Ellen (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 8:05am

    yes!


    by bluesplashy (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 12:02pm

    You pessimists are all so giddy. I can't think of many times in the history of humankind that all the people apprehended all the danger at the same time. I don't see this as one of those times.


    by BevD (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 1:24pm

    Looking for the "villain"is what Hollywood has taught us, Ellen. Rather than individuals or individual institutions, look to the logic of capitalism for the failure. As a practical system of production and allocation and as an ideological construct, its contradictions are no longer tolerable. Once the facade crumbles, people don't want to hear about "mortgage backed securities", they want equity, self management and a little solidarity.


    by troutsky (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 1:42pm

    I agree completely--I never thought I would so quickly get disllusioned with Obama. But he really thinks Geithner knows what he's doing!

    But anyway, I hope you're not serious about supporting Repub phony populism. If you're in a taxi and you ask the driver to go left and he goes right, it doesn't make much sense to jump into another cab that's taking a hard right. You just need to find a cab--or build a cab--that's actually turning left....


    by jcd (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 1:45pm

    I read the article last night, and decided to sign up and comment today, because the author of this post is not only an idiot but wrong:

    The top 1% of earners in this country (approximately 400k+/yr) pay 40% of the country's taxes. The top 10% of earners pay about 83%. This is not including the monies paid out in payroll taxes from the jobs they supply, or social security/medicare funds paid out from the jobs they enable. I'd say the wealthy in this nation pay well more than their fair share of taxes. This is my major point of contention with this article.

    Second, the very reasons that these people are attempting to keep wages, benefits, etc. down is because they're being taxed into submission. When you pass a "rich person tax" or "executive tax" or whatever tax you want to call it, all that is going to happen is someone is going to get their job cut to fund the higher tax levied upon the executive. The bonuses these people receive will never change; they're in control of the company. What will change is wages for everyone else.

    Third, while it wasn't said, I found the underlying theme of capping executive pay to be revolting. The logic follows that if we as a nation are willing to cap the pay of some of the most brilliant minds in the world, who's pay are we not willing to cap? Should your mechanic only make $25000 a year? Your dentist $30000? There's no line to be drawn in the sand if this logic is allowed in our society, and I don't think the government should decide how much anyone is allowed to be compensated for their services; even if this did happen, the brightest people would simply turn to illegal activities to make the same amount of money that -can not- be taxed. So I guess it'd really be more money at the expense of the people without the means or ways to commit crimes for money.

    In closing, you people are just mad that AIG received taxpayer money. The government's bailout of AIG should be reconciled on election day. The company is only responsible for running the company; if the company fails, it should be allowed to fail. The government can not, and must not, be allowed to make decisions to enslave corporations to their will. It is unconstitutional.


    by CMN (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 2:23pm

    You can't fight phony populism with phony progressives. There is no party representing the interests of most Americans.


    by bluebell (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 2:43pm

    And for some reason they think that no one else knows about it. When my husband suggested that all employees take a thousand less and save employees' jobs, you could have heard a pin drop in the room - and then they expect people to still turn in outstanding performances and in fact work even harder in "hard times". So much for "we're all in this together".


    by BevD (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 2:46pm

    I'm guessing there are fewer Americans like that today than there were 6 months ago. Most of us are feeling more like marks in a con game.


    by bluebell (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 2:48pm

    I'd bet that if this country had 1 oligarch and 300 million serfs, you'd be complaining that the oligarch had to provide subsistence bread and water to keep his slave labor alive. After all, he made ALL the money, why should those who couldn't keep a penny be provided with a crust of bread?


    by bluebell (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 2:58pm

    We are marks in a con game. Damon Runyon couldn't have written a better story than that AIGFP white paper. Nicely Nicely Liddy and the company of Dave the Dudes.


    by BevD (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 3:06pm

    There is only no hope if people continue to let social issues be the sole dictator of the political discussion.

    When Americans wake up to the real problems and how these social issues (for the most part) are being used to distract and divide in the very real class war and fight for economic fairness, then and only then will we start to see honest talk about social justice, as well.

    Imagine how different government and elections would look if they could never have been lobbied and bought by corporations? We would have policies that were not so skewered to the corporate bottom line, but balanced between economic and social justice, IMHO.


    by Connecticut Man1 (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 3:07pm

    Anf if Geithner appeared in the story no one would find the character believable because it would not be plausible to have someone so blind and incompetent as Treasury Secretary at such a crucial moment. Geithner will end up being Obama's biggest mistake and his foolish plans may well undo the presidency.


    by oleeb (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 3:37pm

    I'm prepared to accept that they are as you say. Just as plausible as "let them eat cake" in my view. Whichever is closest to the truth makes little difference since both postures are utterly disgusting, immoral and unethical.


    by oleeb (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 3:39pm

    OLEEB CONCEDES THE ARGUMENT! YEEESSSS!!!
    (just kidding...)
    (gotta cut down on the coffee...)


    by Obey (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 3:43pm

    I wholeheartedly agree. When you get down to it capitalism is a system that doesn't work unless you are one of the very few at the top. It's very nature requires that it fail and it has done so in extraordinary fashion this time. That is what necessitates a radical restructuring of the power and wealth distribution in society.


    by oleeb (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 3:48pm

    You hit the nail on the head once again bluebell.

    Whenever the cranks spit their venom out I always think of Scrooge braking out something like:

    "Late again I see Cratchit! And I suppose you'll be wanting the 25th off again this year with pay eh? I might have known. Whatever happened to an honest day's work for a day's wage?"


    by oleeb (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 3:54pm

    That is a gloss, using just figures for taxable income, or as your referred to it "earnings" as the measurement's csale. It looks to have been lifted off of a Tax Foundation study, using a bit of rounding to make the figures easier to ingest by the masses. There is another way to measure it, and that is to use ownership of wealth as the scale:

    In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2001, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 33.4% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 51%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 84%, leaving only 16% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth, the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 39.7%.

    G. William Domhoff, "Wealth, Income, and Power", UCSC Professor of Sociology, September 2005

    You noted that the top 1% of taxable income earners in the US, pay almost 40% of the total income taxes collected, yet 39.7% of all privately held wealth in America is concentrated in the wealthiest 1% of Americans. Remixing these two pieces of data on the palette recolours your drab worker reality portrait of income tax inequity, with much brighter Impressionistic hues.

    You assert that the government should not be bailing-out large failing corporations, and there is a great deal of validity to this argument, yet you fail to also note that given the tremendous disparity in private stock ownership between America's that increases exponentially from the poorest to the wealthiest; a proper depiction of the bail-out should capture the real valuation of these government entitlements, and be booked as a mark-down against the income taxes paid by its recipients. This would further dilute the credibility of your charge that America's wealthiest are getting royally screwed by the Nation's lower and middle classes.

    It probably would surprise a lot of people to know that less than half of American households are invested in the stock market in any form--either directly or indirectly through mutual funds or 401(k)s. The percentage of households that own stock declined from 51.9% in 2001 to 48.6% in 2004 - the first decline recorded. Furthermore, the percentage of households with more than $5,000 in stock fell from 40.1% to 34.9%--the first decline in this share.

    Stock ownership remains concentrated among the wealthiest households. The wealthiest 20% of households own over 90% of all stock value. For the top 1%, the average value of stock holdings was $3.3 million in 2004, down from $3.8 million in 2001. The average value of stock holdings for the middle 20% was $7,500 in 2004, down from $12,000 in 2001

    "Wealth Flows To The Wealthiest As The Percentage Of Americans Who Own Stock Falls", Economic Policy Institute, August 29, 2006

    Your claim that the government bailout of private business entities in Unconstitutional is over the top, and notably unsupported with any citations from the Constitution. Yet I am able to present a strong argument against this assertion citing a few of the broad powers delegated to the legislative branch in the US Constitution; Article I; Section 9:
    • Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
    • Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
    • Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States
    • Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

    Lies, Damn Lies, and Twisted Stats issued by whinny poseur libertarians, who fatuously believe that liberty is naught but pigging out at an all you can eat buffet of avarice and greed.


    by PseudoCyAnts (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 4:14pm

    . . . I hope you're not serious about supporting Repub phony populism.

    Yeah; over-the-top rhetorical excess -- my bad. :-(


    by Ellen (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 4:30pm

    I'm with you on that one, BevD. I'm not optimistic at all about the general populace actually figuring out what's going on.

    I'd love to be wrong, though.


    by Nebton (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 5:14pm

    I'm chuckling and pleased at your reaction coffee or no coffee.


    by oleeb (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 5:28pm

    ;0)


    by Obey (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 5:43pm

    Picture me standing up and appluading loudly...


    by stillidealistic (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 6:37pm

    Also, Cyants.



    by Bwakfat (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 6:55pm

    applauding, too...damn I miss firefox...


    by stillidealistic (not verified) on Sat, 03/21/2009 - 7:21pm

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