MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop
MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE by Michael Wolraich Order today at Barnes & Noble / Amazon / Books-A-Million / Bookshop |
Comments
Copy of a related comment I plopped on an old thread last night ( at the bottom of COLORISM IN HIP HOP by rmrd0000 on Fri, 07/20/2018). Fits here as well
by artappraiser on Tue, 09/11/2018 - 6:37pm
And
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 09/12/2018 - 3:28pm
I get it: glass less than half full. Let's go all the way, why waste time: we are not post racial, no justice, no peace, as long as there is one single person on this earth that doesn't think dark skin is sexy.
by artappraiser on Wed, 09/12/2018 - 3:36pm
All I did was provide nuance.
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 09/12/2018 - 3:40pm
Ok, then, carry on. Sorry that I let your sorry reputation proceeds you, I am always open to people changing.
by artappraiser on Wed, 09/12/2018 - 3:44pm
That’s mighty white of you
by rmrd0000 on Wed, 09/12/2018 - 3:58pm
You realize that's a racist joke you are making, right? Based on the true meaning of the word racist. But we can't do that about you? Wrong, no more Mr. Nice Guy from me towards you. Because: it's a waste of time, you have an agenda and are not interested in learning anything from others, only preaching at this audience or using this audience as a listening board for your grievances, many of them as delusional as any Trump fan's. If we can deconstruct the luny grievances of Trump fans, we can do the same for yours.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 1:26pm
You have always been critical, nothing has changed. The school changed its policy. You still want to argue. Perhaps you need to update your viewpoint. I said that the school was on the wrong side of history just like the military hairstyle code was outdated. So far, it has been you arguing for the status quo.
What harm is done by wearing the braids?
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:08pm
Ah, rmrd making that "might makes right" argument.
The police beat the protester, the protester's no longer moving - yet you still want to argue!!!
Wrong side of history indeed - we thought the 30's had settled these kind of fascist dilemmas. Instead, government authorities coming in to rule on private behavior. Guess it fits in with 2nd wave fascism - Erdogan, Assad and the like.
Yes, the status quo was pretty good back when it observed right to privacy and right to self-determination short of discrimination in services.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:25pm
Now it’s Fascism?
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:32pm
yes, it is, pure and simple, classic definition
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:47pm
I'm sure the military hair policy is stricter than this school's. I'm sure the military does not allow hair extensions while in uniform. Policy changes all the time. Sometimes I agree with a policy change and sometimes I don't. So I don't get your point when you say the school changed it's policy. That says nothing about whether it's a good or bad change or why. I wouldn't be surprised if the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade in the next few years. Noting that the Supreme Court changed it's policy would say nothing about that policy change.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:28pm
What great harm is being done?
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:31pm
I explained above why some people think it's harmful. You refused to address it. If you're interested in the answer to the question reread that comment and agree or disagree and explain why.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:50pm
So I don't get your point when you say the school changed it's policy.
I think it's because he loves old timey racial protesting and wants to prove to us it still works. To the barricades with Stokely! Instead of realizing how in the 21st century that it was exactly constant minority grievance protesting thing (especially when petty, like over hairstyles or religious garb) is what in fact set off this whole Bannon Trump white populism thing allover the world.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:33pm
You guys are hilarious
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:36pm
That's an insult used to avoid discussing the actual points. There is no argument there, no information, no discussion of what or why you disagree. It's not even an insult within arguments discussing you views of the subject. It's nothing but an insult. That's who you are and what you do.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 4:11pm
Given the shots you’ve taken a me..............Yawn
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 4:45pm
I have never insulted you in lieu of an argument addressing your points.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 4:56pm
I think you're giving him credit for more depth than he has. I think it's just: The school changed it's policy so I must be right because my side won.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:47pm
well it's sort of one and the same: the glory of fighting against "the man". We here on Dag are part of "the man" if we do anything but amen's and megadittoes over the righteousness of each and every news item that rmrd points to on the struggles of the black brothers and sisters whether they be tiny, small, medium, large or extra large size. Also, never forget, winning = having the most worst victimhood and oppression and it is against the rules for anyone to suggest sharing of the victimhood and oppression, one has to support those of the black race getting the most. And the worst thing to do: suggest that things are improving for blacks through self-agency. That's a no-no, that cuts into their amount of oppression.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 4:00pm
p.s. can I also just say: the struggle will never really be over until all parochial schools accept not just braids but hair extensions.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 4:17pm
That is the future.
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 4:49pm
Sounds familiar, from medium.com
by artappraiser on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 12:38am
I'm not much interested in these discussions of tribalism and this article doesn't resonate with me at all. I don't see or understand the world in terms of tribalism and this article seems to push conflicts that I don't see any tribal influence into the tribalism box. Perhaps among the uneducated voters act out of tribalism but it doesn't seem to have nearly the amount of influence that all this discussion signifies.
There seems to be a lot of stupid coming out of the Trump world and calling it out isn't tribal imo. While I reject the idea that they're all racist and that it's useless to attempt to reach out to any Trump voter I think it's undeniable that there's a significant amount of racism among Trump's base and that's at least a significant minority of the republican party. An honest discussion of that reality isn't toxic.
For me the partisanship isn't about tribalism but a very real difference in policy. Take abortion. The position of the vast majority of democrats is that it should be legal. While there are some differences in the exact degree of legality legality is the standard. The vase majority of republicans want abortion to be banned. For some with only rare exceptions for rape and incest. It's not tribalism that drives the division. These are positions so at odds with each other there is no room for compromise.
Or let us consider climate change and the environment. The democratic position is to increase the amount of renewable energy sources and the other side wants to increase the use of carbon producing energy sources. Trump has gone so far as to propose using the excuse of national security to force power plants to continue using coal rather than switching to natural gas. That's not tribalism. That's a very real and fundamentally opposed policy difference.
Your link includes atheism and theism on it's list of tribal conflicts. I fail to see how that's a tribal conflict in todays world. The new atheist movement is simply attempting to have a 21st century conversation about these mostly first century schools of thought. The power of Christianity in America has lessened and formerly taboo subjects can more openly be discussed. The internet has made these conversation available to the masses were they used to be more restricted to the elite. Therefore the atheist movement has gotten more publicity and popularity.
It's true that Hitchens can be insulting but that's just his schtick. He plays the rogue with witty jabs. But by far most of his discussion is clear rational arguments to support his views. Harris, by design I'm sure, is as unemotional as possible and limits his speech to solely rational arguments. He simply refuses to react to any jab from the other side. I just don't see how any of these debates and discussion on religion v atheism is an example of tribalism and especially toxic tribalism.
I've weighed in on the subject here because rmrd has pushed it and embraced tribalism as a positive force when I see it as a negative. But I don't really see tribalism as a determinative force in most of these conflicts.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 5:18am
A better example of tribalism is that birth control was an obvious sane precaution against pregnancy supposrted by everyone, left and right, but slowly the right-wingers convinced thwir tribe that birth cintrol is a form of abortion, thus murder. Kavanaugh is one of the high priests for this kind of Overton Window - one reason he should be rejected is he supports tribal allegiance and hegemony over facts and legal precedents.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 09/16/2018 - 8:33am
Ah but you thought it very harmful when Bo Derek wore them! Still waiting for you to admit she was helping to make them more acceptable to the culture at large, something you are now arguing should happen. You are such an incredible hypocrite precisely because you don't care about understanding anything but victimhood, such incredible blinders, exactly like the tweet PP just posted.
by artappraiser on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 3:39pm
When, exactly, did Bo Derek support black women wearing braids?
Edit to add:
Looks like Kim Kardashian gave credit to Bo from cornrows
That did not go over well
https://www.essence.com/hair/kim-kardashian-bo-derek-fulani-braid-problematic/
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 4:49pm
Old Russian joke - 2 boys are playing in a sandbox with different toys, and 1 turns to the other and says, "Let's share like brothers". The 2nd responds, "No way - we do it 50-50".
"We want to share yours, but keep ours" is what I keep hearing. That's not how it works. Many people first heard rap with Blondie's "The Man from Mars", even though she specifically calls out Fast Five Freddie as her source. But you can't live in New York and not grow New York style. You can't bottle culture and keep it to yourself, especially not with TV & internet an clubs and all the other ways of transfer. And yeah, when I hear Blondie, I also hear Dylan's Subterranean Blues, another rap-like song from 10 years before. And somebody else did call out from 10 years before that, and another decade and on and on. It's not even the music, it's the rhythm. You simply can't own it. And someone else will trace the lineage through other people, and they're both right. Different paths to the same destination. And that goes with everything else. Try making rules for Hurricane Florence to not come ashore - that's how futile it is. And this is without the influence of wars and famine and plague and mass migration. At some point you have to stop saying "mine" all the time if you want to be part of civilization. Civilization is shared, and not just with a certain caste. It's the whole shebang.
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 5:05pm
For a while the Who were touring with The Clash, and they'd do this thing where Pete Townsend would hand off his guitar to Joe Strummer. And Keith Richards noted that this was bullshit - this ain't fucking musical dynasties and inheritance - it's copping what you want, and whoever comes out on top comes out on top. It's not Bo Derek's place to support or not support black women wearing braids. She just wears them. If someone black, white, Asian, whatever likes them and wears them, well, cool, inspiration - imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. White people will get more white influence, black people will get more black influence, but sometimes it'll be reversed. who cares? as long as a good song or good fashion or something else positive comes out of it? Mick Jagger was at Sun Studios in Memphis today - the geezer's 75 and hasn't forgotten. There's plenty of credit going around. Sinead O'Connor shaves her head and suddenly a million women (and men) shave their heads. Do I need to know the history of shaved heads, to think back to Egyptians or other cases, or can I just appreciate this point in space? Retro styles come back, so those awful 80's clothes & hairstyles are cool again. Do we have to remember if it was Duran Duran or Prince or Flock of Seagulls that started something up?
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 5:13pm
Bo Derek can wear braids.
Black women can point out a history of braids.
If a black actress is said to look like a druggie, while a white actress is praised for wearing braids, pushback can be expected.
Oh by the way, Donald Trump said that the 3K death toll in Puerto Rico was put out there just to embarrass him. (Just letting you know, the girl’s braids don’t inhibit keeping up with the news)
by rmrd0000 on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 5:25pm
Joe Strummer the guitarist? What is that like Joe Six pack or Joe Lunch Pail? You're never going to convince me you didn't make up that story as a metaphor.
by ocean-kat on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 5:28pm
As Yogi Berra said, "You can look it up."
by PeraclesPlease on Thu, 09/13/2018 - 5:31pm