MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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A Gaza Breviary
By A Guy Called LULU on Sun, 07/27/2014 - 2:10am |1. One benefit of the carnage in Gaza is that it has given people who’ve never said a word about the carnage in Syria an impetus to say a word about the carnage in Syria.
URL:
http://coreyrobin.com/2014/07/27/a-gaza-breviary/
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Comments
All those liberal journos and commentators who are silent on Gaza: you can almost hear them praying for the GOP to launch a new war against Social Security so that we can all get back to business.
by LULUDUDE (not verified) on Sun, 07/27/2014 - 2:23am
A particularly interesting link from within that piece about the prescient views of James Baldwin.
http://herrnaphta.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/baldwin-on-palestine/
by LULUDUDE (not verified) on Sun, 07/27/2014 - 2:45am
Although I still think Hamas shouldn't have been firing rockets, it's ridiculous that anyone could think this carnage could be justified by rocket attacks that didn't even kill anyone. The evidence doesn't support Israeli claims that they are "doing everything possible to minimize civilian casualties".
by Aaron Carine on Sun, 07/27/2014 - 7:59am
Find any Gazan demonstrations/pleas to stop firing missiles at the infidels? No? Just chants of "With our souls, with our blood, we redeem Gaza". There is no concession Israel could make that will turn the tunnelers and missile men of Hamas into peaceful flower exporters.
If the killing and bloodshed from Pakistan, Afghanistan, to Syria, Egypt, Libya, Chad...Cameroon to Nigeria, Kenya, Somalia... and of course 'too extreme for al Qaeda' ISIS in Iraq prove anything, it's that at this point in time, too many Muslims seem to have no self respect, no compassion or respect for others, even other Muslims.
Maybe peace was possible 30-40 years ago in Palestine, maybe not. Now, maybe Israel knows more about how to stop terrorist organizations digging under their borders than any of us do.
The Israeli casualty toll of 40-50 troops, and the fact that they broadcast where they will move into next, risking their own troops to ambush or booby traps, shows they are trying to keep the death toll of civilians down, and, of course...they have far more justification for action the the US did when we destroyed Iraq, killing upwards of 1 million.
by NCD on Sun, 07/27/2014 - 11:58am
The IDF hit a hospital, a rehab center and an ambulance, as well as a school that the UNRWA says was clearly marked. They killed 26 people in one attack on a house, only one of them a Hamas member. A NYT journalist who witnessed the killing of some children said that the IDF should have been able to tell that they were children. So no, the attacks don't seem to be discriminate, regardless of whether they give warning(In Vietnam, the Americans often gave warning before they bombed villages, but the attacks were still indiscriminate).
Israel has better reason for making war than the Americans had for invading Iraq, but there isn't an equivalence between the rocket attacks and the slaughter in Gaza. If we tally all the Palestinian and Israeli civilian casualties since 2000, the disparity isn't as great, although still substantial.
http://www.btselem.org/statistics
by Aaron Carine on Sun, 07/27/2014 - 12:16pm
Israel disputes it was their ordnance at the UN site. They say they can prove it. Hamas was using RPG's, lobbing mortar fire and firing anti-tank missiles in the same area. That's how 7 Israeli troops were killed in an armored troop carrier.
Contrary to America, Israel doesn't send their reservists and people in uniform into harms way unless there is no other option. The only exception I can recall was 30 years ago when Israel invaded Lebanon, a bloody and useless conflict. They haven't repeated that error since.
But I love it when guys like you talk about what Israel should or shouldn't do.
Murderous Hamas fanatics are rabidly digging tunnels you could drive trucks through to kill Jews and create mayhem. If these guys were popping up in your neighborhood I am sure you would have a completely different idea of what response was acceptable. Heck, Americans, and our wonderful Congress, are raising hell about defenseless kids trying to cross the border. Give me a break.
by NCD on Sun, 07/27/2014 - 8:40pm
If we were in Israel, we might support this slaughter, but we would be wrong. If you were in Gaza, the West Bank, or Lebanon, you would probably have a different idea of what Israel should do and what Arabs should do.
The invasion of Lebanon wasn't the only time Israel started a war, they also attacked Egypt in 1956 and 1967. Of course, they claimed these were "preemptive" attacks, but that was propaganda.
by Aaron Carine on Mon, 07/28/2014 - 8:35am
Looking at the size of Gaza, where could you go to find safety?
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 07/27/2014 - 12:20pm
You may well be correct that peace is no longer possible. It might be too late. Deadly actions can instill hate and when hate is deliberately encouraged to justify and create the conditions for the next deadly action things are not likely to get better. There is a lot of hate going on.
I saw an analogy of the Israeli excuse for retaliating against the rocket attacks somewhere recently. Israelis say that they have a right to defend themselves. Sounds reasonable with no other context but that is like a rapist whose victim strikes back claiming that he has the right to defend himself. Israel has been fucking over the Palestinians for a very long time.
by LULUDUDE (not verified) on Sun, 07/27/2014 - 1:40pm
Every one from Ridyah to Kuwait to Cairo to Damascus has been f***ing over the Palestinians for a long time. Now Hamas leaders in Beirut and Qatar are f***ing them over. The rabble that is left in Gaza might consider better leadership than the terrorists of Hamas, if they want peace.
by NCD on Sun, 07/27/2014 - 8:36pm
The rabble may have figured out the endgame. In the United States the native Americans were the rabble. When peace came, Native Americans were placed on reservations. I doubt that the Palestinians see a future with freedom from some form of Israeli control.
I don't see a solution.
by rmrd0000 on Mon, 07/28/2014 - 10:30am
- See more at: http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/gaza-mixture-peoples-faces-ran...
by A Guy Called LULU on Mon, 07/28/2014 - 1:58pm
When Muslims want to build things instead of blowing things up, the future of nations from Pakistan to Syria to Libya will be brighter.
Of course under GW Bush we not only taught them blowing things up, torture and bombing is the means to the end, in Iraq we gave them a real life university for terrorism training and education. Complete with unguarded munitions depots, targets (our troops) and a cause, while also removing Saddam and the Baathists who were apparently the only force keeping a semblance of order in that region.
by NCD on Mon, 07/28/2014 - 11:47pm
I wonder if there would be peace if a democratic Muslim government were in charge of the oil fields. These governments would likely view the oil as a true natural resource and raise prices of the precious liquid. The price increases, now directly tied to Muslim governments peaceful or not would not go over well in Europe and the United States. Even Asia would be upset.
Part of the rational that European governments made in creating countries with groups with religious differences next to each other was, in part, to keep religious friction focusing activists on other Muslims rather than on the West.
by rmrd0000 on Tue, 07/29/2014 - 9:11am
Netanyahu's protestations that the IDF "is doing everything possible to avoid civilian casualties" are hard to take seriously when even the U.S. government says otherwise.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/middle-east-unrest/u-s-condemns-airstri...
by Aaron Carine on Sun, 08/03/2014 - 5:35pm
Netanyahu is free to tell Kerry to butt out. He is free to tell Obama not to second guess him. He is free to go without having the United States fund the slaughter. This has cost Israel billions and Americans are being asked to defray the costs.
While Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt's governments are not openly condemning Israel, their populations are upset. At the end of the day the Muslim governments will be dislike even more by their citizens and the United States will be seen as even more of an enemy.
Both Israel and Egypt need to lift the access to goods that impede the economy in Gaza.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 08/03/2014 - 7:26pm
Sad how many Muslims and others can get so irate over Palestinians killed in the crossfire between the terrorists who run Gaza and Israel, which Hamas is pledged to destroy. Hamas could, of course, end this at any time if they stopped firing missiles across the border.
There are hardly any demonstrations against extremist Muslim groups, or governments, kidnapping, bombing, beheading, terrorizing, killing or murdering fellow Muslims by the hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands. It's as if that's just business as usual.
If the borders were opened, Hamas would just bring in more sophisticated missiles and weapons in preparation for the next Jihad. These guys don't want peace any more than ISIS, and they will never go into the flower export business. As Muslims, and many in the world, inveigh against the inevitable loss of non-combatants as Israel defends itself against terrorist aggression, you have Muslim on Muslim violence like this from Iraq:
... They destroyed a Shiite shrine, executed resisters, overran local security forces and hoisted the black flag of the Islamic State...the militants demanded that the city’s residents swear allegiance to ISIS or be killed....
The United Nations representative in Baghdad, Nickolay Mladenov, issued a statement on Sunday, citing reports he had that as many as 200,000 civilians, mostly from the minority Yazidi community, had fled the fighting.
by NCD on Sun, 08/03/2014 - 8:41pm
This slaughter is vastly worse than the terrorist aggression. The rocket attacks hadn't killed anyone since 2012. Probably a thousand Palestinian noncombatants have been killed, including over two hundred children.
ISIS was a big story for a time, and doubtless will be again, but one of the rules of journalism is that the story has to change. Anyway, the refrain of "what about what's happening in(fill in the blank)" isn't much good as a defense.
by Aaron Carine on Sun, 08/03/2014 - 8:52pm
The double standard in Muslim reactions to Muslim on Muslim violence and the Gaza conflict cannot be denied.
So Israel is supposed to patiently wait for Hamas to kill Israeli's, and then act, 'proportionally'?
I have two words for you Aaron, Never Again.
by NCD on Sun, 08/03/2014 - 10:14pm
I think I can stand on what I said in reply.
by Aaron Carine on Sun, 08/03/2014 - 10:16pm
Hamas had largely halted the rocket firings. Gaza was blocked off from the smuggling trade that supplied the economy after the Muslim Brotherhood was ousted from Egypt. The Israelis limited access for Gaza citizens at the Israeli checkpoints. The smuggled gods could be taxed and support the Gaza economy. Gaza was trapped. Hamas felt there was nothing to lose by attacking Israel, in fact, part of the resolution may be freer access for those in Gaza to gain access through Israel.
The bottom line is if the Palestinians are trapped between Israel and Egypt, and the United States, Turkey, and Europe are not providing aid, what incentive do they have for good behavior.
Regarding Muslim on Muslim religious disputes, this is a direct result of how European powers divided the countries. There are religious differences. This is not unheard of. Go back and read how the Massachusetts colony led by John Winthrop declared war on the area we call Rhode Island that was led by Roger Williams. Winthrop envisioned his colony as a religious city on a hill. Williams was adamant about separation of church and state because he felt the state would corrupt religion.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 08/03/2014 - 9:26pm
A perspective on how Hamas views the situation
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n16/nathan-thrall/hamass-chances
The Massachusetts versus Rhode Island dispute
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/god-government-and-roger-williams-...
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 08/03/2014 - 9:30pm
This is the 21st century, not the 16th. Muslims and Muslim nations in particular need to turn down the violence and the Jihad and turn up respect and compassion for each other, and also people of other faiths.
As I have said before, GW Bush and the neocons lit the cigar that landed in the powder magazine that set this whole thing in motion, in their 'shock and awe' aggression and failed occupation of Iraq, A nation now in chaos and replete with terrorists and lawlessness.
by NCD on Sun, 08/03/2014 - 10:23pm
The trap that encompasses Palestinians in Gaza is in place in 2014 prior to the rockets Hamas is firing.
The Palestinians had no voice in the creation of Israel. They feel that their land was stolen. Jews in Israel escaped slaughter in Europe, Israel is their refuge. Palestinians feel trapped in Gaza. Jews probably watch the anti-Semitism in Europe and are glad that Israel exists. Neither party sees a reason to compromise.
Palestinians see no support from the rest of the world. Israelis see no support from the rest of the world. This violence cycle will repeat.
by rmrd0000 on Sun, 08/03/2014 - 10:44pm
Very well said.
by barefooted on Mon, 08/04/2014 - 12:12am