MURDER, POLITICS, AND THE END OF THE JAZZ AGE
by Michael Wolraich
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Hits of the Day
Hillary Wants To Preach (?)
By barefooted on Sun, 08/06/2017 - 2:42pm |Like most of us, I've read alot of articles about Hillary Clinton over the years - this one's a bit different.
Now, as Clinton works to rehabilitate her public image and figure out the next steps after her brutal November loss, religion is taking a central role. After long months of struggling to persuade Americans that she is trustworthy, authentic, and fundamentally moral, Clinton is lifting up an intimate, closely guarded part of herself. There are no more voters left to lose. In sharing her faith, perhaps Clinton sees something left to win, whether political or personal.
URL:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/hillary-clinton-devotionals/535941/
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Comments
Oy, yes, what a surprise. It's got to be genuine, because: nothing to lose now.
Like I implied on a recent thread, sort of in jest about Calvinists: the shrinking American WASP sub-culture is one that has become newly fascinating to me.
That said, this former parochial schoolgirl can only think: Hillary make a pretty stern pastor to go to with one's problems. People think some nuns were cold? I think on Methodists: uptight intellectualization of Christianity, imparted and mpuded righteousness and all, striped of emotion.I think of "noblesse oblige,"
I find the latter, genuinely, in some WASP's I've gotten to know well lately, and it actually is very touching in real life when one sees it genuinely practiced. Constantly I am saying to one new WASP friend: "why did you do that?" And my friend replies "that's what I was taught by my parents, that you are supposed to help people." All people. Anyone in need. Like if they begging for money to get something to eat, or if they need help carrying a box or just putting on their coat. And like it's automatic, without feeling or forethought, like the code of chivalry in the middle ages.
by artappraiser on Sun, 08/06/2017 - 3:46pm
Well gee, we agree on so much, but this is the constant distortion zone. I see this as Hillary since forever - a bit of goofy religiosity she seems genuine in, like most people's religiosity seems goofy to me, but whatever gets you through the night... (Contrary-wise, Barack's always seemed the go-to-church-cause-the-wife-told-you or partly because the community activism & networking required it). Cold? I still don't find her terribly cold, except when dressing down a Senator or something, and even that can be pretty humorous, or finding Bill's screwed some speech up with an awful soundbite or made headlines with a staff member. Usually found Barack stiffer than her, Michelle a ton looser, but hey, she wasn't a politician so she could halfway relax (and she did after a while). And Hillary never did such a cringeworthy thing as Al Gore & Joe LIeberman holding hands and kneeling to pray or whatever. Clinton used her religion as a way to cut across different societies as well, a uniting not dividing approach. First in globetrotting, of course, but also such as abortion & using her religious grounding as way to show understanding of the other side to try to bring some agreement. Of course it never worked, but that's because the other side is a bunch of dicks who had no interest in reaching anything but another scandal. But that's another story. But yeah, the code of chivalry does seem to be a driver, and perhaps that's part of why I never got the inauthentic or distrust or whatever - her responses in most situations seemed pretty obvious, aside from her self-admitted acceptance of the need to do political wrangling rather than go purist & leave the dirty compromises or failures to someone else.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 08/06/2017 - 4:40pm
I imagine that rather than being cold or an "uptight intellectual", Hillary would be far more as she seems in other aspects of her life: practical and realistic with her advice, offering substantial suggestions for ways to ease their suffering and/or problems. Add in what I think of as a genuine sense of humor and insight from years of trials and tribulations and I believe she'd make an excellent counselor.
by barefooted on Sun, 08/06/2017 - 4:44pm
It is strange how different everyone reads her. Not me, I would be afraid that she'd give me a Protestant work ethic lecture, along with the whole rigid feminist marine sargeant thing, get my act together, only I can save myself, straighten up, do my homework, and especially: quit complaining.
When I am hurting, what I want from something like religion or counselor is mother: unconditional love, sympathy, empathy and a bit of joy.
by artappraiser on Sun, 08/06/2017 - 6:05pm
I suppose it boils down to what sort of help we really need when we ask for it ... a sympathetic ear, a hand to hold or someone who is willing to help us help ourselves. Hillary seems to me the sort who will give a warm hug, ask what she can do - and mean that she'll try. But no, she's likely not the best person to just tell you everything will be fine if it won't be.
by barefooted on Sun, 08/06/2017 - 7:40pm
Where are you getting this? Supporting child health care, rural electricity, planned parenthood, hillbilly opioid relief, etc, where do you find her drill sergeant attitude? Sure, she tries to balance the books and anticipate Republican attacks/realities, but I don't see her as such a scold. Granted, she's not a religious counselor nor my mother, tho frankly either of those I've encountered are hardly unconditional love/much more hard-nosed than her.
by PeraclesPlease on Sun, 08/06/2017 - 9:34pm
That is politics and law, not preaching or counseling. I am talking about her personality, since the days of "I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies" through all her years in public life.
.I actually find it odd that so many here defend her personality so much. It is not at all my experience with friends, family, colleagues, my entire circle. I am not exaggerating. She was our Senator here in New York. Nobody I know was a fan like out there waiting to see her in public, oh boy. I got friends who live close by in Westchester, not fans. I don't see how people don't see this hurt her as a political candidate amongst the stupids who vote for personality and likeability. I don't think I know a person in real life that would "like to have a beer with her."
Admire her accomplishments: absolutely.. As a friend or counselor: nope, not at all appealing. Actually mystified by Bill's attraction, don't see it.
by artappraiser on Sun, 08/06/2017 - 9:59pm
I rarely get into this personality thing with any politician because I don't think any of us really know much beyond the superficial public persona. They're not our friends, we've never sat down for a one on one chat. Imo to know someone that's the bare minimum, at least one extended one on one chat. Thing is it's reported that she inspires fierce loyalty from her friends and coworkers. They do see her as the person they'd like to have a beer with. They say she has a great sense of humor. They claim she's very funny. Hard to believe I know. I don't see it, but she's not my friend so I don't know.
by ocean-kat on Sun, 08/06/2017 - 11:20pm
I agree with you but I also agree with what you have said on this before: other people do judge poltiical candidates that way. And we can't stop them from doing that, people do it in every democracy, not just ours. So it becomes a factor in whether they can win.
Furthermore, even though I thought her public personality was that she was not very likeable, I didn't care, because she had more than the necessary qualifications for the job. I don't feel I have to like the people I vote for. I am never going to have a beer with them.
BUT this thread is not about that! It's about her doing preaching. I said I wouldn't like her kind for a preacher or counselor
For something as personal as my preacher or counselor, I have to feel comfortable with the public persona I see. I certainly would not like that personality for me for that kind of service. Not at all. I would never pick Hilllary as a counselor or preacher, her whole public personality, how I've seen her interact with other people, turns me off. I don't even happen to like her speeches, they turn me off, not a one I have seen has inspired me! I don't think that's a big deal for a president. But it's a really big deal for a preacher!
Her feisty way of interacting actually benefits her in the role of an elected politician or stateswoman, in things like hearings, and dealing with foreign leaders, and dealing with underlings. But not as a preacher, not my kind.
Right now I am in the middle of picking among several doctors for a fairly long term treatment, it's real difficult because I am not simpatico with their personalities, we clash. I've learned hard lessons over my life with doctors: best case scenario is when we click, personality wise and that they are also highly qualified. I don't really know them like a friend, but we've got to be simpatico. So this is on the top of my mind, it's really tearing me apart that I am going to be stuck with one of these!
And now I think if Hillary was a doctor, acting the way she acts in public, I would not want her as my doctor. She is often schoolmarm-ish and condescending. That is the worst kind of doctor for me, we clash.
I think: "kinder, gentler" for preacher, counselor, doctor.. Not to mention: humbler, that's very important to me for these personal help roles. And then I think of George Bush I, now for me, that kind of personality, he would make a good preacher. Probably a far better preacher than he was a president. The soaring inspirational rhetoric kind of preacher is not my kind, either. Not that I think Hillary's got that, either, cause I don't think she is. That's Obama and Bill Clintion somewhat, Mario Cuomo.a lot, etc....that works for polticians. And for the type of preachers I do not cotton to.
by artappraiser on Mon, 08/07/2017 - 2:34am
I suppose I agree with much of what you posted. She doesn't seem likable to many people and that is important. I couldn't finish the article. It's just not something I can relate to or care about. Not saying others shouldn't care or talk about it. I'm not good at deciding if a politician is likable. Nothing about her causes me to dislike her. Her laugh seems fine to me though others call it an abrasive cackle. Mannerisms, speech patterns seem more or less like most other politicians. I wasn't going to weigh in as I don't seem to be cued into it much and have little to add. I just wanted to say that from what I've read the people who interact with her really seem to like her a lot. Her work and personal persona seems to be much different than how people see her public persona.
by ocean-kat on Mon, 08/07/2017 - 3:10am
Don't need preaching, maybe counseling but wouldn't stand for it, so it's politics for me. yes, you probably know her better - God knows I skip as many campaign speeches as I can as well. Maybe I wouldn't like your friends in Westchester either ;-) YMMV, such is life & personal taste.
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 08/07/2017 - 2:22am
Yez, this article says Hillary is the type of person that would like to preach to you! So I am at a loss why you think it's important to support the idea that she's such a cool person. For one thing, she wants to preach, and you don't like preaching.
FWIW I really do get the sense from her, and yes, it's only from the public persona--but here she is talking about what she would supposedly like to do with her personal life--that she wouldn't settle for "counseling", but that lady wants to "preach".
It's only my impression, but as I said, the point politically is that a lot of people do vote on the basis of liking the personality. It's just the way it is. If you ain't got that popular charisma, you've got a much harder task trying to win.
by artappraiser on Mon, 08/07/2017 - 2:47am
Well, the article is less than convincing on the matter - finally settles for "guest preach", which is probably equivalent to what she's done in churches before. She always had a few drops of scripture at hand, and it was pretty obvious she was sincere about her religion, though this one doesn't add up:
That's trite bullshit. She's been speaking out for years, and religion's been there, but like most things she simply gets thwacked for whatever she says (as the article notes for her 1993 speech) - it'd be "insincere Hillary" speaking on religion, just like it's impossible she could enjoy a whiskey or carry hot sauce.
So sorry, I just didn't take the article seriously (yeah, when bored once in 1994 or perhaps getting screwed on Hillarycare, she said she could veer off to become a Minister - that's news 23 years later when she pens a preface to a spiritual book? Somehow after 2008 & 2016 I don't think she's deciding on a new calling preaching come-to-Jesus. I'd guess she's more likely to build her foundation and focus on women's place in society. Someone just had an article to write, and they put a few things together to meet a deadline.)
by PeraclesPlease on Mon, 08/07/2017 - 4:09am
A plumber come with her tools to do the job.
by Flavius on Mon, 08/07/2017 - 9:22am